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This is not a discussion topic on whether you think women should run separate tournaments. This is a thread for the NESL Iron Lady events.
If you would like to sign up or wish them well or offer aid and support, this is the place. If you want to complain about the work they've put in or their message, don't. This is your warning. - Jibba 16:18PM EST / 05:18 KST |
good work
for the eternal debate of why should or shouldn't exist female leagues, my answer is the following: as the scene is so dominated by males, it is a good idea to make female only tournaments where they both get exposure and promote gaming to other females. In addition, and most importanty, the best gamers from these female tournaments, after getting some experience and exposure, could try to hit into the main scene. In other words: female tournaments are a great idea to help females to get into the main scene, because while in theory they have no handicaps in comparison to men, simply the male-centric nature of the main scene holds back female who would like to try luck with pro gaming.
i support a joint main scene, but to reach this "gender unity" steps like this female sc2 league who will (hopefully) popularize pro gaming between women and female gamers among men is a great initiative
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On June 10 2011 06:12 Mikey wrote:
Kind of stupid if you ask me. No offense to female gamers, but why should they get there own tournaments that exclude male players? Do tournaments exclude women from them? No. I think this is just meant to make female players stand out, but should they stand out if they aren't achieving results in normal tournaments?
Bob and Tina do the same job for the same company. They have the same experience, same qualifications and have been with the company for the same amount of time. For every dollar that Bob makes, Tina makes 0.79 cents. We can agree that that is unfair, right? The trouble that most men have, in my experience, is not understanding that this inequity is wrong. Where men seem to trip up is as follows. There is only so much pay to go around and to make Bob and Tina equal, Tina's pay must come up AND Bob's must go down.
Now let me relate that back to e-sports. Do female only tournaments limit, even if ever so slightly, the amount of tournaments available for males to enter? Yes. Is that "fair"? I guess it depends on how you define the word fair.
As I've said before, video games have long been the domain of teenaged to twenty something men. From all indications here on TL, OneMoreGame, Day9's daily, the goal of those involved in the competitive e-sports scene is to grow it as much as possible. That means reaching out to people outside of that demographic. Female only tournaments are a means (and I agree, maybe not the best) to that end.
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So can it just be policy now to put a warning at the top of every female tournament that gets announced now? Something like "Discuss the tournament. Do not discuss whether there should be female only tournaments."
It's getting kind of old seeing that same discussion every time one of these tournies announced.
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hahaha Agreed with Aurdon.
Back to the topic!
IronLadyESL welcomes any sc2 female player!
GL and HF! 
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Is it just me or is the sponsored sub-forum now becoming the most controversial place with a lot of arguments and disagreements?
Best of luck with the tournament, really interesting seeing an all-females thing go on.
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Sweden4856 Posts
if this is whats needed to increase the diversity in our community by getting more girl gamers to come out into the open then I'm all for it. Hopefully it will lead to girl gamers getting more integrated and so on but first and foremost all the retarded youngsters out there not knowing how to talk to a girl to shut the fuck up or learn a thing or two about how to talk to someone of the opposite sex(hello stream chat during State of the game when a girl is on).
Either way I think this is better than nothing, but whatever.
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On June 10 2011 07:52 Torte de Lini wrote:
Is it just me or is the sponsored sub-forum now becoming the most controversial place with a lot of arguments and disagreements?
Best of luck with the tournament, really interesting seeing an all-females thing go on.
No, unfortunately people feel the need to derail every single thread related to female only tournaments.
Let's not shit up this thread with the same argument for the 10000000x time please guys, it's getting old and it's been established as seriously misguided.
On June 10 2011 06:16 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:12 Mikey wrote:
Kind of stupid if you ask me. No offense to female gamers, but why should they get there own tournaments that exclude male players? Do tournaments exclude women from them? No. I think this is just meant to make female players stand out, but should they stand out if they aren't achieving results in normal tournaments? Why is there a German only online SC2 league? Why shouldn't Swedes be allowed to play in it? I think it's just meant to make Germans stand out, but should they stand out if they aren't achieving results in tournaments that have Swedes?
On topic hope it takes off!
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Why should females have their own tournaments?
do they have diff brain, lmk dis not troll bro
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Not to be mean but you'll only get acceptance by the community if you do not set yourself aside because of your gender. You get acceptance from people because of your personality and the way you present yourself.
This is why I am fundamentally against female-only leagues. It only provokes more mockery and intimidation towards gaming women, rather than reducing it. One example you may end up hearing is "Oh well they aren't able to keep up with men so they got their own petty league lol! /4chan" or something alike.
Edit: Other than the rant above. Good luck with the tournament.
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Why is having this necessary?
It's not a physical attribute that keeps female gamers from participating at the higher levels...
I really don't think this is good for the whole of esports.
Playing against/with the best makes you better and that is common consensus between every pro player in every competitive scene.
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On June 10 2011 08:44 TheOne85 wrote:
Why is having this necessary?
It's not a physical attribute that keeps female gamers from participating at the higher levels...
I really don't think this is good for the whole of esports.
Playing against/with the best makes you better and that is common consensus between every pro player in every competitive scene.
Yes its not good to promote for females to play on a tournament level. You know how rediculous you sound man?
Not every player starts off playing against the best, that is intimidating. It begins with casual play, and small scale tournaments. Our function is the stepping stone to bring more females into the scene which will obviously transition over to the open cups. It pains me you find an event promoting the growth of a scene is not good for the whole of esports. Its making you sound pretty selfish.
Please read the vision before posting a statement like that.
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On June 10 2011 06:05 jenzebubble wrote:
Western gender roles dictate that masculinity be expressed through competition. Competition, then, becomes the domain of men. Women who compete in sport must then be "father-didn't-love-me-enough" cases or "bull dykes" for the want for competition is not a quality seen as feminine. Men separate themselves from their peers through competition, women by cultivating and maintaining relationships. Video games have been, for the most part, designed by men for boys and men. If the goal is to grow the StarCraft 2 scene (read as: bigger market, more money, larger talent pool, mainstream exposure) beyond the typical demographic (teenaged/20 something males) then efforts must be made to reach out to those groups of people. Things like IronLady do just that.
What's the deal with starting off saying "western" gender roles? Ever heard of foot binding, the at one time mainstream Chinese tradition of breaking the arches of women's feet so that they conform to a more ideal idea of "femininity". But I digress, the reality is that male domination of competitive sport is a world issue, and although it may seem appropriate to view the situation through an exclusively gender based perspective, I think it's worth considering that from a cost analysis standpoint most female specific competitive ventures end up failing and costing their investors a great deal. Whether or not e-sports could be the excpetion remains to be seen.
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inb4 back to the kitchen jokes
User was warned for this post
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I'm starting to think after being blind to the problem for 24 years, I'm dyslexic. I read "Iron Lady Lunch" and thought this was some kind of iron chef spin off. I think I need to see a mental health professional >.>
My thoughts on the subject are these: Why don't you encourage more females to represent their gender in tournaments? I'm seeing a lot of female only clubs but not as many women in the NASL. Can't we just have a drive to encourage equality among all gamers instead of dividing ourselves into niches, when we are already a small segment of society?
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How do you make sure guys aren't disguising themselves as women to play in this league?
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nice might tune in
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On June 10 2011 09:04 duBstar wrote:
How do you make sure guys aren't disguising themselves as women to play in this league?
Yeah I'm interested in this as well. I have no qualms with a females only league, but it's got to be pretty hard to moderate that.
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On June 10 2011 06:29 jenzebubble wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 06:12 Mikey wrote:
Kind of stupid if you ask me. No offense to female gamers, but why should they get there own tournaments that exclude male players? Do tournaments exclude women from them? No. I think this is just meant to make female players stand out, but should they stand out if they aren't achieving results in normal tournaments? Bob and Tina do the same job for the same company. They have the same experience, same qualifications and have been with the company for the same amount of time. For every dollar that Bob makes, Tina makes 0.79 cents. We can agree that that is unfair, right? The trouble that most men have, in my experience, is not understanding that this inequity is wrong. Where men seem to trip up is as follows. There is only so much pay to go around and to make Bob and Tina equal, Tina's pay must come up AND Bob's must go down.
how does this relate to starcraft at all? I mean... really?
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I wish you guys (Girls) the best of luck with your tourneys and sponsor hunt! I think it will be interesting to see a female only league as I have not watched any of the EU ones.
If we want ESPORTS to grow then we need to have leagues for women only. We see this in almost every single sport that is televised. Yes many of the women's leagues get much lower viewership but I think a lot of people will tune in to these tourneys. I'm still unsure how you go about making sure every player is actually a girl. There is bound to be people wanting to take advantage of this especially if there is money on the line.
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On June 10 2011 05:55 Zumm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 05:41 SaYyId wrote:
I still don't know: why are females and males separated? The few women playing professionally normally don't stand a chance against the male competitors.
Then why do they get a league? If you're not on that level then why be treated so special because of sex?
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EPT
