EPTMLG HD Update - Page 2
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
It's great for interviews and stuff, I get that. However, it makes the game nigh unwatchable. It increases blockiness and makes everything look grainy. | ||
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Mabius
Canada323 Posts
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
On October 16 2010 12:59 Kennigit wrote: Is this an HD stream or HQ? HQ. It's 480p I believe. | ||
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storm44
1293 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Calling it HD is a bit :X | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
Would you rather they lower the quality of LQ to compensate? =P | ||
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hellsan631
United States695 Posts
I made some mock ups to perhaps help out mlg. I really love what mlg is doing, but this was an issue last time. That, while sharpening may look better when the stream is not full screened, it compounds on the blocking side of things to make it look horrible. Also note, that HD streaming (resolution wise) isn't more bandwidth intensive, because 2.2 mbs is still 2.2mbs, just at a higher resolution that allows for a lot better scaling, and the image comes across sharper because the data is naturally there. (it is more cpu intensive, but once its all encoded, it doesn't matter what resolution its coming out at.) Here is what viewers should expect from the HD at its current resolution without any filters, sharpening, or use of contrast editing: http://i53.tinypic.com/ace5jm.jpg Here is what they are getting: http://i52.tinypic.com/2ih54q8.jpg Comparing the two, when fully screen sized, it becomes quite obvious (my screen is 16:10 and so is the image, so meh, a few extra px.) that the sharping doesn't benefit the viewer at all. Now here is what i looks like with SD. What is expected: http://i51.tinypic.com/2dmcuuv.jpg Here is what you get: http://i54.tinypic.com/23ib6li.jpg I was not able to do any blocking, i tried a bit, so it does look a bit better. But if thats an image with no action that sits, thats really what you get. (higher bitrate means less "blockiness" to action). Now if we compare the sizes of the two, you can actually see, that the sharpening actually makes the resulting image a higher total size (about 80kb bigger). This means, that the sharpening is actually making the stream have a lower effective quality. So the stream actually gets a lot blocker because your forcing a larger image down the same size pipe. So lets reduce the image size of both of these to the bitrate mentioned above (SD only) a 400kbs image is = to about 50KB. Expected: http://i55.tinypic.com/21v4ux.jpg What you get: http://i55.tinypic.com/ej8nqd.jpg Now if you look at the "blockiness", the "what you get" is consideribly worse compared to the expected. So, in effect, if you actually wanted to give us a higher quality stream, just remove the stupid sharpen filter, and both streams wont be nearly as "blocky". | ||
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blizzind
United States642 Posts
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Wakamex
Canada47 Posts
I agree bitrate is not the problem. Hellsan did a great job summing up the quality issues, which seem to centre around sharpness and contrast. I think they may have actually been tweaked at some point throughout the day. Or I maybe my eyes just got used to it. But they still look pretty funky. I believe ingame is not the same resolution as the rest of the cast. See my reddit post here discussing this. Please look into getting the ingame to feed the proper resolution to the cast. Good luck, and hope you find the problem! | ||
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SC2Syndicate
United States134 Posts
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
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Monarch.StarCrack
United States169 Posts
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Maaku
United Kingdom142 Posts
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
Thanks for your patience everyone. I will be monitoring this thread for more feedback. Lee | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
On October 16 2010 22:37 MLG_Lee wrote: Spent some time tuning the signal. There should be some improvement. Note please that when we're live, I cannot make adjustments on the fly. This must be something that is done while off-air. Thanks for your patience everyone. I will be monitoring this thread for more feedback. Lee Remove. The. Sharpening. Filter. | ||
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
It's. More. Complicated. Then. That. :D I don't disagree that there was something wrong with the in-game signal. Clearly, since we're adjusting this on the fly and while we're live, we agree. But live switching an HD signal from MULTIPLE camera signals, PC signals and a variety of other devices is not as simple as tuning in your TV. And you have to make those changes in an ordered, logical fashion or else you run the risk of destroying the entire stream. Ask the folks here, there's ALOT of gear in the video production area. Take a look when the games go live, and we'll go from there. _I_ think there's been a pretty solid improvement. But it wasn't "just" the sharpening filter. | ||
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:02 MLG_Lee wrote: It's. More. Complicated. Then. That. :D I don't disagree that there was something wrong with the in-game signal. Clearly, since we're adjusting this on the fly and while we're live, we agree. But live switching an HD signal from MULTIPLE camera signals, PC signals and a variety of other devices is not as simple as tuning in your TV. And you have to make those changes in an ordered, logical fashion or else you run the risk of destroying the entire stream. Ask the folks here, there's ALOT of gear in the video production area. Take a look when the games go live, and we'll go from there. _I_ think there's been a pretty solid improvement. But it wasn't "just" the sharpening filter. It looks much, much better. Thanks a lot. | ||
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teacash
Canada494 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:22 scottyyy wrote: It looks much, much better. Thanks a lot. agreed, good job lee. However there's still tons of room for improvement.. The out-of-game stream is so crisp.. we want that in-game for the next MLG event, thanks. | ||
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Cade
Canada1420 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:02 MLG_Lee wrote: It's. More. Complicated. Then. That. :D I don't disagree that there was something wrong with the in-game signal. Clearly, since we're adjusting this on the fly and while we're live, we agree. But live switching an HD signal from MULTIPLE camera signals, PC signals and a variety of other devices is not as simple as tuning in your TV. And you have to make those changes in an ordered, logical fashion or else you run the risk of destroying the entire stream. Ask the folks here, there's ALOT of gear in the video production area. Take a look when the games go live, and we'll go from there. _I_ think there's been a pretty solid improvement. But it wasn't "just" the sharpening filter. Yeah it looks a TON better today. Could be a little brighter, but overall a HUGE improvement! | ||
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