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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
Apologies for taking so long to post, been putting out some fires here at the venue on the live streaming side. We've arranged for the quality of the HD stream to be adjusted (on the fly) and increased. The total resolution we're sending out is not that much greater, but I'm sending a much higher bitrate to you all now. MLG has posted more info here: http://www.mlgpro.com/content/page/315565/SC2-HD-Stream-Quality-Increased-to-2-2-mb Lee | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
Its been ten times worse than MLG Raleigh | ||
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iLLusive
United States274 Posts
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townsend`
Canada54 Posts
edit: the gamma and contrast is also a problem as the next poster states. | ||
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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Accer
Korea (South)319 Posts
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Kr1pos
Norway67 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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sword_siege
United States624 Posts
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aepal
Netherlands123 Posts
Please try to increase the GAMMA for the observing computer at graphics settings. To be honest your ingame stream looks low quality with a sharpen filter applied to it + too high of a contrast but when we see the casters and the players it looks very clean and sharp. I think the main issue is with the settings of your hd encoding settings on the computer you obs with. Increasing the bitrate did not do anything on ingame since the contrast is still way too high. Just wanted to point out that increasing the gamma could give a better result. Good luck with this, and thanks for the live coverage. I know how much trouble and work it takes. | ||
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thee telescopes
321 Posts
Upping the bitrate has just made the HQ stream unwatchable for me (2.2mbs connection) with no increase in picture quality in game. | ||
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Klemze
1 Post
I don't know what equipment you are using but make sure you set the correct signal type for the video equipment connected to Day9's computer. Ps. The difference is clearly visible on the video overlays used, compared to the computer image. | ||
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449
United States53 Posts
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lowkontrast
United States855 Posts
It reminds me of when I first set up my HDTV and was playing around with the settings. Putting the sharpness on highest made really thick white edges around everything. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On October 16 2010 11:36 Accer wrote: Huge props for listening to the community! But just to enforce what everyone else has been saying, it's the in game quality that is horrendous, something about the contrast or sharpness or something. Out of game the quality (in HD at least) is pretty amazing. QFT, keep up the good work MLG. | ||
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eckm
United States72 Posts
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
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Mato
Australia412 Posts
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Mabius
Canada323 Posts
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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dcemuser
United States3248 Posts
It's great for interviews and stuff, I get that. However, it makes the game nigh unwatchable. It increases blockiness and makes everything look grainy. | ||
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Mabius
Canada323 Posts
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
On October 16 2010 12:59 Kennigit wrote: Is this an HD stream or HQ? HQ. It's 480p I believe. | ||
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storm44
1293 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Calling it HD is a bit :X | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
Would you rather they lower the quality of LQ to compensate? =P | ||
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hellsan631
United States695 Posts
I made some mock ups to perhaps help out mlg. I really love what mlg is doing, but this was an issue last time. That, while sharpening may look better when the stream is not full screened, it compounds on the blocking side of things to make it look horrible. Also note, that HD streaming (resolution wise) isn't more bandwidth intensive, because 2.2 mbs is still 2.2mbs, just at a higher resolution that allows for a lot better scaling, and the image comes across sharper because the data is naturally there. (it is more cpu intensive, but once its all encoded, it doesn't matter what resolution its coming out at.) Here is what viewers should expect from the HD at its current resolution without any filters, sharpening, or use of contrast editing: http://i53.tinypic.com/ace5jm.jpg Here is what they are getting: http://i52.tinypic.com/2ih54q8.jpg Comparing the two, when fully screen sized, it becomes quite obvious (my screen is 16:10 and so is the image, so meh, a few extra px.) that the sharping doesn't benefit the viewer at all. Now here is what i looks like with SD. What is expected: http://i51.tinypic.com/2dmcuuv.jpg Here is what you get: http://i54.tinypic.com/23ib6li.jpg I was not able to do any blocking, i tried a bit, so it does look a bit better. But if thats an image with no action that sits, thats really what you get. (higher bitrate means less "blockiness" to action). Now if we compare the sizes of the two, you can actually see, that the sharpening actually makes the resulting image a higher total size (about 80kb bigger). This means, that the sharpening is actually making the stream have a lower effective quality. So the stream actually gets a lot blocker because your forcing a larger image down the same size pipe. So lets reduce the image size of both of these to the bitrate mentioned above (SD only) a 400kbs image is = to about 50KB. Expected: http://i55.tinypic.com/21v4ux.jpg What you get: http://i55.tinypic.com/ej8nqd.jpg Now if you look at the "blockiness", the "what you get" is consideribly worse compared to the expected. So, in effect, if you actually wanted to give us a higher quality stream, just remove the stupid sharpen filter, and both streams wont be nearly as "blocky". | ||
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blizzind
United States642 Posts
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Wakamex
Canada47 Posts
I agree bitrate is not the problem. Hellsan did a great job summing up the quality issues, which seem to centre around sharpness and contrast. I think they may have actually been tweaked at some point throughout the day. Or I maybe my eyes just got used to it. But they still look pretty funky. I believe ingame is not the same resolution as the rest of the cast. See my reddit post here discussing this. Please look into getting the ingame to feed the proper resolution to the cast. Good luck, and hope you find the problem! | ||
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SC2Syndicate
United States134 Posts
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bigjenk
United States1543 Posts
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Monarch.StarCrack
United States169 Posts
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Maaku
United Kingdom142 Posts
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
Thanks for your patience everyone. I will be monitoring this thread for more feedback. Lee | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
On October 16 2010 22:37 MLG_Lee wrote: Spent some time tuning the signal. There should be some improvement. Note please that when we're live, I cannot make adjustments on the fly. This must be something that is done while off-air. Thanks for your patience everyone. I will be monitoring this thread for more feedback. Lee Remove. The. Sharpening. Filter. | ||
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
It's. More. Complicated. Then. That. :D I don't disagree that there was something wrong with the in-game signal. Clearly, since we're adjusting this on the fly and while we're live, we agree. But live switching an HD signal from MULTIPLE camera signals, PC signals and a variety of other devices is not as simple as tuning in your TV. And you have to make those changes in an ordered, logical fashion or else you run the risk of destroying the entire stream. Ask the folks here, there's ALOT of gear in the video production area. Take a look when the games go live, and we'll go from there. _I_ think there's been a pretty solid improvement. But it wasn't "just" the sharpening filter. | ||
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:02 MLG_Lee wrote: It's. More. Complicated. Then. That. :D I don't disagree that there was something wrong with the in-game signal. Clearly, since we're adjusting this on the fly and while we're live, we agree. But live switching an HD signal from MULTIPLE camera signals, PC signals and a variety of other devices is not as simple as tuning in your TV. And you have to make those changes in an ordered, logical fashion or else you run the risk of destroying the entire stream. Ask the folks here, there's ALOT of gear in the video production area. Take a look when the games go live, and we'll go from there. _I_ think there's been a pretty solid improvement. But it wasn't "just" the sharpening filter. It looks much, much better. Thanks a lot. | ||
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teacash
Canada494 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:22 scottyyy wrote: It looks much, much better. Thanks a lot. agreed, good job lee. However there's still tons of room for improvement.. The out-of-game stream is so crisp.. we want that in-game for the next MLG event, thanks. | ||
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Cade
Canada1420 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:02 MLG_Lee wrote: It's. More. Complicated. Then. That. :D I don't disagree that there was something wrong with the in-game signal. Clearly, since we're adjusting this on the fly and while we're live, we agree. But live switching an HD signal from MULTIPLE camera signals, PC signals and a variety of other devices is not as simple as tuning in your TV. And you have to make those changes in an ordered, logical fashion or else you run the risk of destroying the entire stream. Ask the folks here, there's ALOT of gear in the video production area. Take a look when the games go live, and we'll go from there. _I_ think there's been a pretty solid improvement. But it wasn't "just" the sharpening filter. Yeah it looks a TON better today. Could be a little brighter, but overall a HUGE improvement! | ||
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
<3 TL. | ||
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drhojo
United States53 Posts
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drhojo
United States53 Posts
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drhojo
United States53 Posts
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Cade
Canada1420 Posts
On October 16 2010 23:42 drhojo wrote: i predicted select would win the first game, do i win a HD pass now? 3 posts in a row lol! Thx again Lee, really appreciate the fact that you are interested in and take our feedback seriously! :D | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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Z-R0E
United States147 Posts
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rokbe
Netherlands17 Posts
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sword_siege
United States624 Posts
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
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AtlasJQ
Canada138 Posts
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Combine
United States812 Posts
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hellsan631
United States695 Posts
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Mabius
Canada323 Posts
 and I'm sure more ppl will buy the HD | ||
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maellestrom
United States194 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
wireless issues and delays can't be totally prevented but good job on fixing what can be fixed. | ||
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
On October 17 2010 04:29 dtz wrote: glad to see mlg is very professional and on the ball about public feedback. wireless issues and delays can't be totally prevented but good job on fixing what can be fixed. WAN = Wide Area Network, not Wireless. Meaning we had a brief issue with the upstream ISP that we had to resolve quickly. Delayed us a few mins. Interesting fact, Wireless doesn't actually work in MLG shows due to the amount of electronics in the room. | ||
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DreamScaR
Canada2127 Posts
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kaji
United States35 Posts
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Sramota
Sweden183 Posts
Also - Keeping interviews to the premium, add more advertisements, preferably a bit intrusive mid games in the free (banners) etc. and always whip in "You could remove this for only..." | ||
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FrayzZeUsher
United States225 Posts
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vaelrock
France11 Posts
Problem : why not reverting back to a 1.6mbps stream ? The quality will be nearly the same (ingame content is way too blury to really need that much bitrate), and i've seen multiple people stating that their connexion cannot sustain a > 2.5mbps requirement, and i am one of them. Yesterday evening, the stream was sharpened and with too much constrast, but was at 1.6mbps as stated in the description in the hd pass page, and was playing without any lag. Now the quality is ~ok, but i cannot watch it anymore. A 2.2mbps stream clearly requires more than 2.5 mbps (probably ~2.8 to 3.0 to have no lag at all). I'm lagging for 5-10s every 20s, or it simply freezes. So now i'm stuck watching the sd stream, while having an hd pass. I'm not against an increase in the stream bitrate, but be careful not to change stream settings as you wish after the event started, when you already had customers buying an hd pass with a relatively limited connexion. | ||
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
DC was GREAT! | ||
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TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
I also like the new interviews thought you could have done a bit more of them. | ||
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andytb
United Kingdom180 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
@turamn - thanks. we _DO_ listen. @andytb - switching live is very different than VOD. There's challenges there that we're still pioneering. Some things will have to wait until 2011, but generally speaking what you said isn't quote accurate. We're native 720p all the way through, but I have to DOWN convert (it's not quite the same as sampling) to the resolution that we send out to you. Unlike normal broadcast TV, every pixel changes multiple times per second in every game we broadcast. It's challenging to say the least. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
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lowkontrast
United States855 Posts
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MLG_Lee
279 Posts
On October 17 2010 11:15 Antoine wrote: lee will vods include just game start to game end or also the stuff in between? want to look for myself =P VODS are commercial break to commercial break by match (so everything except the commercial break, including the out of game content). P.S. Replays from Day 1 went up last night, and Day 2 should be up by the morning. Hey iNControl... That better? ;p | ||
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
oops that's replays not vods | ||
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Darkstar_X
United States197 Posts
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MasterFwiffo
United States97 Posts
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
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ocho
United States172 Posts
On October 17 2010 11:41 MasterFwiffo wrote: I wasn't able to watch these live. Will there be VOD's, and if so, where? I'm also curious. | ||
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DreamScaR
Canada2127 Posts
On October 17 2010 11:20 MLG_Lee wrote: VODS are commercial break to commercial break by match (so everything except the commercial break, including the out of game content). P.S. Replays from Day 1 went up last night, and Day 2 should be up by the morning. Hey iNControl... That better? ;p I'm not sure if it would be possible at all, I love some of the commercials (the Old Spices ones are still epic).. but for those who have paid for the HD, it would be amazing if at some of the breaks were able to get some behind the scenes footage of people goofing around and just the general area. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On October 17 2010 09:52 MLG_Lee wrote: Hope everyone enjoyed the tournament, cast and the show. Please use this thread as a feedback thread. I haven't looked too far, but is the crowd response issue going to be addressed? As we saw today, there's no way a protoss could ever go mothership without his opponent knowing, and this is kind of important to the game. Any comment? | ||
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DreamScaR
Canada2127 Posts
On October 17 2010 11:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: I haven't looked too far, but is the crowd response issue going to be addressed? As we saw today, there's no way a protoss could ever go mothership without his opponent knowing, and this is kind of important to the game. Any comment? You would also see (or I guess hear) the same type of thing with Nukes. I guess that's the one advantage to going Zerg, there's no "OH MY GOD" type of thing that will make people freak out. | ||
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
On October 17 2010 11:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: I haven't looked too far, but is the crowd response issue going to be addressed? As we saw today, there's no way a protoss could ever go mothership without his opponent knowing, and this is kind of important to the game. Any comment? Well you already know when someone goes mothership because it lags the game upon arrival (unlike latency issues). I think some soundproof booths would be legit, however. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
On October 17 2010 12:01 DreamScaR wrote: You would also see (or I guess hear) the same type of thing with Nukes. I guess that's the one advantage to going Zerg, there's no "OH MY GOD" type of thing that will make people freak out. Well, there's burrowed roaches. Crowds always get worked up when roaches are tunneling up your ramp. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
First day I was unable to watch it fullscreen because of all the sharp-blur-whatever, second day it was great. | ||
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