EPTNewbie Mini Mafia LI - Page 19
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 11:41 Balla24 wrote: Onto what you actually said: What do you mean by this, similar to what I asked thechyz, can you elaborate? I find it interesting cause you seemingly said a very similar thing to chyz but are suspicious of him for not answering my question about it... When you say "argument", I think of communication that is adversarial, aggressive, and uncooperative, the kind of interaction that makes people dislike each other afterwards. This seems like a bad way to start when we have no idea who is friend and who is enemy. When I say "discussion", I think of being able to communicate the same content but without the hostility. In practice I think you are promoting discussion not argument, so maybe this is just a matter of semantics. On January 06 2014 15:53 Balla24 wrote: Well then, who would you lynch at this point? At least 2 people. There's very little information out at the moment. TheChyz and Onlywonderboy. Chyz for the reasons I gave before, although I have some doubts I'll share in a moment. Onlywonderboy because I reread his filter from the scum perspective, and I could see it making sense as scum play. On January 06 2014 13:17 Balla24 wrote: Leaning scum. Like I said I don't like the type of post he made, and even though its not inherently scummy, it's anti-town. However, I don't like how he picks on you for not answering my question. That's really easy to pick on, since it's REALLY common for people to miss questions. I also don't like his reasoning for the town read on dragoon... Of course you're going to stand up to the people you accuse... this seems REALLY forced. "Doesn't seem like cautious scum play", what does this even mean? I had this in mind from the General Guide: Indecision and a conspicuous lack of finger-pointing are also key mafia traits because of their perceived need to keep their story straight and avoid self-contradictions. On January 06 2014 13:36 Balla24 wrote: @Day_Walker: Why did you leave suki off your list? You clearly included her in some of the reasoning, but didn't post a section for her.... I realized that I was saying a lot of "not too much here, probably town", so I stopped and just posted what I had. In retrospect the post would have been stronger if I had just focused on my read of the interaction between you and Chyz. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 12:08 TheChyz wrote: ... If you think I'm scum why not put your vote where your mouth is? ... before he claimed he was bandwagon baiting, which would give him a lot more credibility in my book, but that was actually in the same post. As townie, stirring up argument by making yourself a bandwagon target seems like a bad move if it guarantees a townie gets the first lynch. It only makes sense if you think you can successfully deflect the lynch later ... which Chyz may yet do. Also his quote above and his immediate vote for me do match the aggressive, risk-taking, bandwagon-baiting playstyle that he is claiming. I'm less sure than I was, but I'm not entirely sold on what Chyz is saying now, and I still think he is the most likely scum. @TheChyz If I had to vote now I would vote for you, but I don't see any reason to vote right away for the first person that looks more scummy than the rest. I'll be voting close to the deadline unless I really strongly feel someone is scum. | ||
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Deleted User 323385
41 Posts
Also, TheChyz has only brought confusion and only potentially useful analysis (s)he has brought to table is against Day_Walker who was attacking TheChyz with the list. It appears more like TheChyz is trying to save his/her skin. Though I think Day_Walker is suspicious because of the list, I find TheChyz more suspicious and I don't believe that as a scum Day_Walker would attack another scums this early. ##Vote: TheChyz | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
I agree JonnyLaw is going after people for what could easily be newbie mistakes (I mean this is a newbie game right?) but at the same time he is targeting weak play and convenient scum excuses. You came back at him really aggressively, and I'm curious if you have anything more to say about On January 06 2014 15:58 Asuna wrote: ... Forget about Chyz being my #1 most scummy, you're the new #1. You just don't feel quite town, something doesn't fit right. ... I get that Jonny isn't exactly saying nice things about you, but this is a pretty weak accusation. | ||
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BigDad
67 Posts
Asuna has mainly posted against you. Personally I find Asuna's analysis of you confusing however I do agree with his point regarding your attitude toward TheChyz. You label TheChyz innocent very early on little basis quite dismissively. Asuna's perspective here is understandable, and I feel that his direct and almost accusatory play strengthens a townie read on him. This is because a good Townie doesn't fear being lynched as long as his death brings solid information. So far a Townie read on Asuna. Day_Walker is a different story, he comes across as a narrator rather than a contributor. I read his filter out of context of the overall thread and it becomes apparent that his posts are very cautious. He posts a long list of inconsequential attitudes towards other players and follows up with some posts that seem to have very little content. As secondary evidence, i find theDragoons trust in him to be slightly incriminating... Also, on Day_Walker he seems to have good intentions.Calling out TheChyz as the only possible scum on the list seems like a bandwagon hop to me but TheChyz has been suspicious so it's something I agree with. His read on me I find is a bit unnecessary and does not really prove that I am a townie. I'm sure everyone playing this game is not afraid to disagree and standing up for yourself is something everyone does. He might just be including me on the list because I've posted a bit but his reasoning behind me as a townie really has no foundation. I already have my doubts about theDragoon as expressed earlier, however in this reply he off-handedly indicates his trust towards Day_Walker and jumps on the initial theChyz bandwagon. I am wary of sly indicators of trust before a paragraph of 'fluff' or 'waffle' (read the quote, it makes little sense) as it is easy as a reader to think "That sounded solid, I trust that guy" without a second thought. Asuna seems to have good intentions. Day_Walker and theDragoon seem scummy. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 15:49 theDragoon wrote: That's enough of a reason to lynch Asuna? I don't see that as good enough to suspect Asuna of being mafia, unless you know more than what you've said there. Those 3 things you listed there is just a sign of an inexperienced player, it has nothing to do with being a scum. Off the top of my head I can think of only two scenarios where this is consistent with theDragoon scum AND Asuna townie: 1) Scum are protecting some townies to make things harder to read. 2) Scum are trying to make it easier to play the "I'm a newbie" card. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
Balla24 (0): TheChyz (4): chinstrap, suki, theDragoon, dnyarri JonnyLaw (0): Day_Walker (1): TheChyz onlywonderboy (1): Balla24 Not voting (7): Asuna, onlywonderboy, Derrida, BigDad, sidesprang, Day_Walker, JonnyLaw Currently, TheChyz is set to be lynched. Deadline is Tuesday, Jan 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). Voting is mandatory! If there are errors, please let us know. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 06 2014 20:30 BigDad wrote: ... Asuna's perspective here is understandable, and I feel that his direct and almost accusatory play strengthens a townie read on him. This is because a good Townie doesn't fear being lynched as long as his death brings solid information. So far a Townie read on Asuna. If Asuna were lynched right now, and we discovered that he was a townie, what solid information do we get? I suppose it makes it a bit more likely that Jonny is scum, but it would also be plausible that Jonny just went after newbie play too aggressively, and we are left with nothing I would call solid. Am I missing something? | ||
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chinstrap
United Kingdom253 Posts
A quick 2 cents from me after reading through today and looking at TheChyz's filter: On January 06 2014 07:35 TheChyz wrote: I agree with lurking to be discouraged by just lynching them for the most part. If they are scum then that's an easy kill, if they are town they provide nothing helpful and might cause some confusion in finding actual scum. I think that while the lynching lurkers policy he suggests if anything favours scum and increases the likleyhood of misslynching I personally can pu it down to in experience. On January 06 2014 07:47 TheChyz wrote: Why so eager to have people help you achieve your goals? Maybe they don't agree with them. If onlywonderboy is right, then your rules help you if you are scum as well since you seem to be very active in which lynching lurkers would help your cause of staying alive. Also having people fight can cause confusion in the town. So I don't see a reason why people should just help you achieve your goals. When I read this last night I thought it was the scummiest thing I had ever seen in my life. However, after rereading it along with: On January 06 2014 12:08 TheChyz wrote: Ok I think my little posts before I had to go afk helped generate enough argument to start conversations going. I actually total love the idea of trying to catch bandwagoners early and since Balla posted something similar to the train of thought I usually have I thought someone would catch the link. If you did, congrats. It is enough for me to ##Unvote for now. If TheChyz is scum I would be almost certain he is a godfarther though. Actually now I say that....... | ||
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chinstrap
United Kingdom253 Posts
Please DO NOT take my quite probably highly missguided reverse godfarther read on TheChyz into account when decided who to scum check. | ||
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chinstrap
United Kingdom253 Posts
On January 06 2014 11:58 suki wrote: Okay then, lets get back to scumhunting :D Followed by ominous silence | ||
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BigDad
67 Posts
As for your second question about "solid information" I speaking more in general terms about the style of play, its good for Town to 'stir up the pot' in day one. While initially it may seem anti-town for Asuna to stick to his convictions, should he get lynched it may help later on down the track for the rest of us living townies to see who their posturing may have scared. Comparing dialogue between people is crucial for flushing out the mafia in later analysis. Does that make sense? I hope i'm not rambling, tis late! I'm looking to hear from Balla, Suki and see what Jonny makes of my explanations before I finalise my vote in the morning. However my suspicions are still clear in the above posts and I'll probably stick with them rather than jump on a bandwagon. | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
I'm not sure I agree with your second paragraph, and I definitely don't agree that Asuna's aggressive play gives us a strong town read. I think Asuna's actions make sense as 1) the defensive backlash of a wrongly accused townie 2) the defensive backlash of a rightly accused scum so really I have no idea and think we just need to wait and see more. @chinstrap Good spot. I gotta say that Suki doesn't look very good right now. Also I'd like to call attention to dnyarri's first post: On January 06 2014 20:05 dnyarri wrote: I think TheChyz is suspicious. First he says (s)he wants so lynch lurkers anyway. When people started to suspect him/her (s)he said that (s)he did it on purpose to catch bandwagoners. Bandwagons however give lurkers easy targets which seems contradicts his/her original agenda of lynching lurkers. Also, TheChyz has only brought confusion and only potentially useful analysis (s)he has brought to table is against Day_Walker who was attacking TheChyz with the list. It appears more like TheChyz is trying to save his/her skin. Though I think Day_Walker is suspicious because of the list, I find TheChyz more suspicious and I don't believe that as a scum Day_Walker would attack another scums this early. ##Vote: TheChyz Comes in, summarizes the case against the biggest target, adds a bit of original stuff, drops the lynch vote. I can't fault them for suspecting TheChyz, but there was no follow-up, no questions asked. Can we agree that this is not not scummy? | ||
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Deleted User 323385
41 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#316 TheDragoon stated that Day_Walker seemed like innocent even though Day_Walker had only posted one list and nothing else. Day_Walker's only vote is against TheChyz which doesn't mean much since TheChyz is easy bandwagoning target. TheDragoon's post give me the impression that he wants to slow voting down by defending (random) people while going to TheChyz-bandwagon and attacking nobody else. TheChyz is confusing but I'm not sure if it's carelessness or risk taking. My logic for calling him scum was somewhat faulted too I think. ##unvote ##vote: TheDragoon | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On January 06 2014 22:06 chinstrap wrote: [She] follows up with a lot of 1 liners and what can only be described as offtopic spam. Most worrying post: Followed by ominous silence On January 06 2014 15:19 JonnyLaw wrote: Suki - Balla's not clogging the thread at all. His posts have a purpose we have sub 100 posts in the first 8 hours. You're the person clogging the thread complaining about his actions. I made a single comment because I didn't like what I saw was a trend in Balla's posts. Balla then continued the discussion, and so I replied, trying to be succinct, and Balla asked for more clarification so I delivered. I never wanted to make it a big deal in the first place, but I won't ignore when someone's asking for explanation. Like I said, back to scumhunting. The rest of my posts will be about that and not trivial things like this. I really like the activity so far, this is a lot better than my previous game which had a few players that were replaced/modkilled for inactivity. There's some heat on Asuna, however I see his play as defensive townie rather than scummy. I like how direct Asuna's attack on Jonny is, although I don't agree with the reasoning. I see Jonny as town as well. TheDragoon and BigDad are popping up a lot of red flags for me right now. TheDragoon: On January 06 2014 14:45 theDragoon wrote: Acting scummy on purpose is a bit of a stupid plan for a townie, all it does is put a target on your back and force you to defend yourself early, you might get a little insight into how people are reacting to it but it's a really risky move. A risk that a regular townie with no powers should be willing to make. A mafia putting his name out there this early is a bad plan if enough people jump on the bandwagon. I'm conflicted, all TheChyz has done is create confusion. If enough people get off the bandwagon and he turns out to be a mafia, then he's won and the risk he took with putting his name out there would be totally worth it. Whether or not it's true that TheChyz was telling the truth about the whole act like a scum thing, all it's really done is create confusion among the town. ##Vote: TheChyz This post is really WIFOM-y. Not only that, but he doesn't even come to a solid conclusion about TheChyz, essentially saying 'TheChyz's play is confusing so I'm voting for him'. On January 06 2014 15:49 theDragoon wrote: That's enough of a reason to lynch Asuna? I don't see that as good enough to suspect Asuna of being mafia, unless you know more than what you've said there. Those 3 things you listed there is just a sign of an inexperienced player, it has nothing to do with being a scum. Here, Dragoon defends Asuna by hinting that Jonny knows more than what he's said. I think this is a possible scum slip, as only mafia are really ever thinking about hiding information. BigDad BigDad's initial posts really rubbed me the wrong way. Here are some things that stand out for me: As someone coming late to the thread it gives me an external perspective so bear with me on my reads so far. Im leaning towards Balla and TheChyz being townie. However I may be completely off on this one. I'm more skeptical of TheChyz, his loose play followed by claiming it to be "some trolly remark" is either a 180 freak out after he got voted OR its a great play drawing out the scum bandwagon. BigDad is being really wishy-washy here. He's stating reads but he isn't committing to them. This is typical scum behavior. The dragoon has an early point that seems to me to stifle conversation rather than nourish it then jumps on the aforementioned bandwagon. At this stage theDragoon has my suspicion. This attack is a twist of TheDragoon's words, and a weak one at that. He states TheDragoon has his suspicions, and yet in his next post he says: just because i'm suspicious doesn't mean i'm 100% sold theDragoon is scum. I admit that I don't have an ironclad filter however if you look at theDragoon's filter i feel like he is dodging a lot of questioning without actually adding anything to the debate: ie. With so many votes on TheChyz we really need to start determining whether he is scum or not, I know the probability of a mislynching is higher at the start of the game but i'd rather not lynch someone who is contributing a decent amount. So TheDragoon has his suspicions but he's not "100%" on it. Again, more wishy-washiness. Also note how he still hasn't decided what his opinion on TheChyz is. I don't buy his read on DayWalker, which amounts to "If TheDragoon is scum, then DayWalker is scummy because TheDragoon trusted him' I'd be happy to lynch either of them. For now, I'm going to ##vote BigDad BigDad, answer me this: Aside from Dragoon 'trusting' Daywalker, what else about DayWalker makes him look scummy to you? | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
TheChyz I think the casual tone of Chyz's self-defense is a plus in his favour, as I would expect a mafia to be much more defensive. If TheChyz is scum, I see the twisting of Balla's words as a scum slip (trying too hard to pin someone as scummy from the get-go), not an intentional move that he can later go "haha I was just testing you guys". I also agree with his analysis of Daywalker's list post. For the moment I will give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he was deliberately trying to drum up conversation. ##unvote TheChyz - - - and just for clarity, my vote is currently on BigDad | ||
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Day_Walker
104 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:05 suki wrote: Here, Dragoon defends Asuna by hinting that Jonny knows more than what he's said. I think this is a possible scum slip, as only mafia are really ever thinking about hiding information. Hmm. Jonny himself brings up the possibility that he is holding back information, but does so after theDragoon does: On January 06 2014 16:56 JonnyLaw wrote: Chyz has 5 real posts. I'm not laying my entire thought process out there unless it's needed to secure a lynch. Why telegraph your hunting for scum to adapt? His quick daywalker vote is the only part that strikes me as being off. | ||
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TheChyz
Canada238 Posts
The moment he gets challenged he switches immediately from me to Dragoon, which he didn't even mention at all! There was nothing to imply this. AND, later on in his posts the only people he mentions are myself, Dragoon, and DayWalker. So he also just read Dragoon's post and just mashed it in together in his second paragraph which just seems like more facts and analysis taken from other people. Out of all of the points, the strongest still stands as when he gets challenged about me, he flops and goes on a new target all together. ##Unvote ##Vote: dnyarri | ||
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suki
Canada1159 Posts
Can you share your thoughts on Dragoon/BigDad for me as well? | ||
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