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On January 05 2012 20:22 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:
1) If you were a Cop (could determine the alignment of somebody during the night), who's alignment would you check and why?
2) If you were a Doc (could save someone from a nightkill), who would you save and why?
3) If you were a Vigilante (town-aligned nightkill) who would you kill and why?
4) If you were a Town-Aligned Roleblocker (could prevent someone from using their night action for a night) who would you block, and why? (Also, remember, an RB can act as a soft-cop. If you block someone and there's no nightkill, you may have blocked the mafia's kill! (Yes i know there's no Vig or RB in this setup.))
5) If you have a vote on someone currently, please explain your vote.
6) If you don't have a vote on somebody, please park your vote on someone. Have an opinion. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Abstainance lets scum hide amongst you!
There is plenty of discussion in the mean-time where questions like these waste more logical thought than is required. If you want to WIFOM the proposed blue specials, do it later, but as of right now, there are better things to discuss, especially with the limited time we have left in the day to center our votes on someone. The DT and Medic are both roles that will need to be smart about who they use it for. Why are you even bringing in a Vig/Role Blocker when they aren't even in the game for the Town?
I think there is a better question to be asked right now. Cookie subbed out at a bad time for you Tea.
I don't think i'm the only one that is suspicious of the role that Cookie was given.
Now, onto the second part that caught my eye. The bolded part at the end - the simple "you."
I assume the "Abstinence lets scum hide among "you" refers to the town. However, since I was given the role of VT, I would have worded it as "us." Scum slip this early? Not a good start.
I still think that if Cats flips red, you will too. But I also think that you're role is red.
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On January 05 2012 23:43 Blurry wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:08 CookieMaker wrote:On January 05 2012 12:46 Jitsu wrote:
RE: Cookie, Analysis
Damn, you're "Big Read" is of a suspected town player.
And another suspected town player.
Instead of posting who you think the Town players are, why don't you actually give us some reads on who the Scum players are? I think that would be more beneficial in a game where finding Mafia matters. Especially since we're 24 hours in and I don't clearly recall you posting any scum tell.
At all. Then it's a good thing I caught up before posting #3. Your evidence was everything I had against Cats. My plan was to transition out of "Sheth should have put more pressure on him" into "... and this is why". I felt like I was getting unlucky after analyzing 4-5 players and coming up with zero good scum reads and only 1-2 town reads (despite the consensus against Ceph, I'm still confident in my read). Finally when I stumble upon a clear winner for wishy-washy of the year award, you've already beaten me to it. Cats was going to be my big expose'. ##Vote for CatsnHats The "I don't have to post analysis because he already said it post" Other than that most of his posts have contributed nothing and have just been filler. Didn't post his reads on any players until he was pressured into doing it.
Don't you think these could just as easily be newbslips rather then scumslips? 'least, thats the way it looks to me.
On January 06 2012 01:49 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 20:22 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:
1) If you were a Cop (could determine the alignment of somebody during the night), who's alignment would you check and why?
2) If you were a Doc (could save someone from a nightkill), who would you save and why?
3) If you were a Vigilante (town-aligned nightkill) who would you kill and why?
4) If you were a Town-Aligned Roleblocker (could prevent someone from using their night action for a night) who would you block, and why? (Also, remember, an RB can act as a soft-cop. If you block someone and there's no nightkill, you may have blocked the mafia's kill! (Yes i know there's no Vig or RB in this setup.))
5) If you have a vote on someone currently, please explain your vote.
6) If you don't have a vote on somebody, please park your vote on someone. Have an opinion. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Abstainance lets scum hide amongst you!
There is e secplenty of discussion in the mean-time where questions like these waste more logical thought than is required. If you want to WIFOM the proposed blue specials, do it later, but as of right now, there are better things to discuss, especially with the limited time we have left in the day to center our votes on someone. The DT and Medic are both roles that will need to be smart about who they use it for. Why are you even bringing in a Vig/Role Blocker when they aren't even in the game for the Town? I think there is a better question to be asked right now. Cookie subbed out at a bad time for you Tea. I don't think i'm the only one that is suspicious of the role that Cookie was given. Now, onto the second part that caught my eye. The bolded part at the end - the simple "you." I assume the "Abstinence lets scum hide among "you" refers to the town. However, since I was given the role of VT, I would have worded it as "us." Scum slip this early? Not a good start. I still think that if Cats flips red, you will too. But I also think that you're role is red.
On the contrary, i find that asking questions such as these provide responses which can be most telling! I know that there isnt a vig or a blocker in the game right now, but those are the standard four questions i tend to ask in mafia games (i usually play closed setups). Its not so much what you'd do with your role, its your reasoning that proves to be interesting. Incidentally, it appears that you think i am asking these questions in order to wine the actual power roles and scums attitude towards them. This is not the case - i am asking because this is a tool i have always found helpful to help hunt scum!
As for the part that you bolded - i thought it was clear that the "You" referred to the people who abstained, not town as a whole. It seems you are clutching at straws!
Are you asking me to roleclaim? Because i don't want to do that regardless of what my role is. I've always considered Role Claims to be Bad (with a capital B!) and only to be used as a last resort. I'm nowhere near my last resort yet. After all, i just started playing!
I understand that CM has left me in a bit of a poor spot...i'd like to remind you that Newbs often make slips that look scummy but are in fact newbslips. Too many times i've mislynched newbs for these slips! I'd further like to ask that you judge me on the posts that i make if possible (the quantity of which will hopefully rise soon). Whilst i of course understand that this slot wasn't played solely by me, its rather more difficult to defend CM then it is to defend myself, because i dont know what drove his actions, yknow?
As for my reads...i'm getting a couple of light ones right now, but i'd rather do it justice and make one Big post (like my Mechanics post) so that i can both collect all my reads in one place and give ample reasoning behind them. I intend to sit down for an hour or so to do this properly later on tonight when i can have an unbroken hour of just mafia. I'll prolly end up writing a couple of paragraphs on each player stating what i think of em.
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1) If you were a Cop (could determine the alignment of somebody during the night), who's alignment would you check and why?
I would check out Ceph. Many have scumreads on him, but I am not sold on that. I think that some of the points made in the analysis on him are good though, so, yeah, I'd check him.
Or perhaps Sheth, he is also pretty much a null read for me.
2) If you were a Doc (could save someone from a nightkill), who would you save and why?
Probulous or Jitsu, as those are my main town reads atm.
3) If you were a Vigilante (town-aligned nightkill) who would you kill and why?
I wouldn't kill anyone on night one. But if forced I would kill you. Reason beeing that I found CM most suspicious before he left.
4) If you were a Town-Aligned Roleblocker (could prevent someone from using their night action for a night) who would you block, and why? (Also, remember, an RB can act as a soft-cop. If you block someone and there's no nightkill, you may have blocked the mafia's kill! (Yes i know there's no Vig or RB in this setup.))
Also you
5) If you have a vote on someone currently, please explain your vote.
My vote is on Gretorp for pressure. I won't vote him today even though he haven't contributed at all yet. I will however vote you. You will find the reasons in my filter. Post your reads and be active and I might change my mind.
6) If you don't have a vote on somebody, please park your vote on someone. Have an opinion. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Abstainance lets scum hide amongst you!
See 5.
##Unvote
##Vote: A Killer Cuppa Tea
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 18:58 Xeris wrote:
I've been quiet because I work around 15-16 hours per day, and realistically, I'll only get to check this thread probably: once in the morning, once or twice at work, and in the night (nowish).
I talked about the badness of random lynching because the first few pages of posts kept mentioning random lynching. This thread balloons crazily and I don't have the time to read in detail every post. So when I see 15-20 posts about random number generators and lynching people, I want to explain why I think that's bad.
Anyway, it seems like the suspicion points at Cephira and CM (who just got replaced?). Brb reading some of the posts more carefully
Meh. I'm not convinced of anything. I'll follow along with a lynch if people are convinced and just going to go for it- but I stand by my belief of not killing on the first day. Seriously, thinking people are scummy because of stupid analysis skills and bad/inconsistent posts is really silly.
Although perhaps I have no clue about online mafia, anyway that's basically it from me. Will check in the morning, glgl
The problem is not that you are inactive, the problem is the content of the little posts you have.
Things like this for intance:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 04:22 Xeris wrote:
I can guarantee you guys that I am not mafia -- I'm a townie.
Anyone who has played mafia with me knows how terrible I am at being a mafia. I am a really good townie though, so you should definitely keep me in the game!
I don't vote in this thread right?? When are the votes due (i.e. what actual time)?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 18:58 Xeris wrote:
I've been quiet because I work around 15-16 hours per day, and realistically, I'll only get to check this thread probably: once in the morning, once or twice at work, and in the night (nowish).
I talked about the badness of random lynching because the first few pages of posts kept mentioning random lynching. This thread balloons crazily and I don't have the time to read in detail every post. So when I see 15-20 posts about random number generators and lynching people, I want to explain why I think that's bad.
Anyway, it seems like the suspicion points at Cephira and CM (who just got replaced?). Brb reading some of the posts more carefully
Meh. I'm not convinced of anything. I'll follow along with a lynch if people are convinced and just going to go for it- but I stand by my belief of not killing on the first day. Seriously, thinking people are scummy because of stupid analysis skills and bad/inconsistent posts is really silly.
Although perhaps I have no clue about online mafia, anyway that's basically it from me. Will check in the morning, glgl
Those seem like a contradiction to me, you can't say you are a "really good townie", and then undermine your own play, saying you'll just sheep along, and that you don't have any "clues about online mafia", etc.
Actually, it is a contradiction assuming you are town. If you are scum, then it would be perfectly fine, even so since you said you were a horrible scum player, am I right?
What's your response?
+ Show Spoiler +Seriously, thinking people are scummy because of stupid analysis skills and bad/inconsistent posts is really silly.
Who exactly are you talking about here?
+ Show Spoiler +Although perhaps I have no clue about online mafia, anyway that's basically it from me. Will check in the morning, glgl
Also, stop doing this.
Even if you are a "newbie", you shouldn't "undermine" your own play.
It will make other people underestimate you too, and you will have a more difficult time convincing them, etc.
...of course, if you are mafia this is actually pretty good for you, so don't do it (it's just like Gretorp's "joke", it's dumb if he's town, but works for him if he's mafia).
If you have the time, I'd like you to respond to my questions to you, and of course give us your thoughts on the current events.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 15:32 Blurry wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 12:30 gonzaw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 08:51 Blurry wrote:
Part 2: (taking a long time to write this)
I know I originally wanted to not lynch somebody but the benefits of information make it a more appealing option and I feel like we have some solid candidates
7: Xeris
Has contributed absolutely nothing other than his stance against a lynch today. No analysis or contribution. Leaning on Scum.
8: Gretorp
Has also not contributed anything + no stance on any issue presented. Unless he posts something meaningful in the next day he will get my vote. Leaning heavily on scum.
9: Gonzaw
Likes to pressure people and prod them for feedback. Also posted his thoughts and took a clear stance on issues. Leaning on town.
10: Me
I haven't contributed much other than the Roleblocker thing but I will stand by that. If someone gets role blocked they should immediately say it. The more information the better, and it would be risky for a mafia to claim being role blocked if it gets revealed that there really isn't he is automatically implicated. So guys, if you get role blocked: make sure you tell us.
11: Probulous
Another discussion leader. Has been active in contributing and putting pressure on people (catsnhats). Leaning on town for him.
12: CatsNHats
Although he may have flip flopped positions early in the game I still feel like he is town as he has not shied away from speaking his mind on who he thinks may be scum. We should pressure him but my stance on him is neutral.
Ugh... I don't feel like I added too much with that so I'll go back over everything and post my overall feeling for the game so far. Hmm, I find it interesting how you use the same format Cephiro did for posting your analisis. Did you do that on purpose or is it a coincidence? Also, who are those "solid candidates" you speak of? If you had to lynch only one of them now, who would it be? Gretorp? Does the new events change your opinion or not? Also: + Show Spoiler +I haven't contributed much other than the Roleblocker thing but I will stand by that. If someone gets role blocked they should immediately say it. The more information the better, and it would be risky for a mafia to claim being role blocked if it gets revealed that there really isn't he is automatically implicated. So guys, if you get role blocked: make sure you tell us. Isn't this kind of obvious? Of course if a townie is RBed he should claim, why did you feel the need to state so? I posted in the same format as Cephiro because I'm new to this and I'm trying to pick up on how this game is played. Thus you will see me emulate some things that other players will do or how they format their analysis. This won't be the first time you will see this. Solid Candidates: Gretorp, Cookiemaker I would probably rather lynch Gretorp because he hasn't said anything To your last point: This is a newbie game, maybe its not obvious. I just want to make sure that people know to claim a RB.
Emulating other players, just by formating your post in a similar way to make things more tidy and stuff is fine.
...but don't emulate players in other ways. Try to be yourself here. Also this could be the perfect excuse for sheeping or jumping on bandwagons and such "I was just emulating player X!". So try to be as "authentic" here as possible.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2012 00:53 Blurry wrote:
Okay, my last post for the day:
Staying on CM/Tea as I am still unsure about Cephiro.
Other than that, I'm sorry I couldn't contribute more this first day as I am still new to this and am not sure what to look for in terms of reading players but by going over players posts I am getting a good idea and I'm sure my analysis quality will steadily improve over the course of the game.
One thing that strikes me looking back at all this is CM voting for CatsinHats. If CM/Tea is indeed scum then I think this provides evidence towards cats not being scum as I dont think CM would have been that meta especially with the holes in his play he has already shown. This can't be assumed however so I would still be suspicious.
To be honest, CM's vote was formatted wrongly.
Whether it was intentional or not, I don't know, but the point is that it won't count for the vote tally.
There's the small chance both of them are scum, and he formatted wrong on purpose, so don't go assuming otherwise (of course he could have just bussed normally and forgot to format it correctly).
Also, damn, this whole replacement thing is kind of a let down. I wanted Cookie to come and explain himself, *sigh* I suppose we can't do that anymore...
I'll check Tea's posts in a moment.
I also suggest all of you view Tea's posts in the same light you viewed Cookie's posts. If you thought Cookie was scum, then you think Tea is scum; if you thought he was town, you think Tea is town, that's irrefutable.
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EBWOP:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 20:22 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:
Ok, i'm really far behind right now and rereading quite a lot. I've read up to page 8 or so, and up to this point it seems to be mostly commentating on NL vs Lynch.
Allow me to state my stance on this (it differes massively from my predecessor, it seems).
There are three ways we can handle D1. We can 1) No Lynch, 2) Mislynch or 3) Lynch Scum.
It is not possible to Random Lynch.
Why? Because Random implies that there is no reasoning behind the lynch and that it happens, almost spontaneously. It is already too late for this to happen.
it is not an accident that i ordered the three things we can do in that order. I order them from Worst --> Best. I'll explain why:
1) No Lynch - This is badbadbad and we should never ever ever NL on any day that isn't a MYLO. The lynch is town's Primary Weapon. Not the cop. Not the doc. Not any other Power Role. The lynch. This is, when you get down to it, a game of the Uninformed Majority vs the Informed Minority. The Majority - town - has no information. The minority - scum - has a lot of information. The way to beat the minority? Information.
How, then, do we gain information? Through cop results? Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy-no. Nevieer rely on a Power Role. That's silly. What you gonna do the one game that the cop dies N1? Roll over and die? No, the best form of information is the lynch for reasons i shall dictate below.
2) Mislynch - Oh no, we lynched town. Is it the end of the world? Nope. Not even if we lynch a PR (altho i hope we don't). Its not an ideal situation, but its nowhere near as bad as it may sound. Consider the following:
1) Scum must vote too.
2) Scum know who Scum are.
3) Scum will be eager to lynch Town*
By analysing behaviour and how people vote, and in what order, and how they jump on and off wagons, it can be incredibly helpful to see who the Scum are. Now, i'm not claiming to be the best in votal analysis (That's a friend of mine, we cann him The Machine because of how damned consistent he is in finding scum), but i'm pretty decent at it. Here are a few pointers:
--Scum doesn't like to start wagons.
--Scum doesn't like voting next to each other
--Scum will often jump onto a wagon on a townie early
--Scum will often jump onto a wagon on a fellow scumate late.
In fact, in my experiance playing mafia, i find that finding connections between people is much easier when we Mislynch then whren we actually hit scum. Although, thats just personal experiance, really.
*Of course, this does not mean that they won't lynch scum in order to get on town's good side, but thats Wine.
3) Lynching Scum - yay, we're a scum down and even have a juicy wagon to analyse! Awesomesauce!
So, what am i saying here? Lynch for the sake of lynching? Of course not, that's terrible!!! And i think this is the problem that most people who are Anti-D1-Lynch as Town have with Lynching. We make an Informed Lynch, not a Random Lynch. We ask everyone for their specific reasons for voting and if they ain't to par, we hold them to it.
...???
What's the point of this? Are you assuming that we are discussing the same things we were on page 8?
First, you hadn't read the thread before being replaced?
I got the feeling all replacements followed the game like observers and such, so when they were replaced they already knew the things about the game.
For instance, if you were replaced in Day 5, then good luck reading all the thread!
Second, why didn't you wait and read all the thread before posting? The whole random lynch/no lynch discussion will only set us back.
+ Show Spoiler +Now, i'm going to admit to a Thing here. I'm not the best scumhunter in the world. I tend to find more scum via mechanics then by actual hunting (hence the reason this post has been mostly a mechanics post then a read-post), but i've learned a great tool that helps me hunt scum. Questions!
Seeing how people react to questions is incredibly informative. As such, i am going to ask the follow questions to everyone in the game, both to start conversation and also to give people reason to slip. Most of what i've read so far (i read the fikrst 8 pages and skimmed through the rest) have been mostly going back and forth over the same little things. i'm hoping these questions will bring some more information to the table. (Also, these questions aren't rolefishing because im asking them of everybody.)
1) If you were a Cop (could determine the alignment of somebody during the night), who's alignment would you check and why?
2) If you were a Doc (could save someone from a nightkill), who would you save and why?
3) If you were a Vigilante (town-aligned nightkill) who would you kill and why?
4) If you were a Town-Aligned Roleblocker (could prevent someone from using their night action for a night) who would you block, and why? (Also, remember, an RB can act as a soft-cop. If you block someone and there's no nightkill, you may have blocked the mafia's kill! (Yes i know there's no Vig or RB in this setup.))
5) If you have a vote on someone currently, please explain your vote.
6) If you don't have a vote on somebody, please park your vote on someone. Have an opinion. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Abstainance lets scum hide amongst you!
I'll answer my own questions, as well as vote someone, and post some reads, when i have caught up proper (which should be later today). i thought i'd post a mechanics-related post before i caught up and posted reads to show y'all that i was here and also state my opinion on a discussion that occured before i joined the game.
Again, what's the point of this?
Your posts would be fitting if Day 1 started 2 hours ago, but, why do you feel the need to post this if there's plenty of information to go by?
Also, why talk about blue roles when it isn't even night? If you want to discuss how to direct the blues or something, do it at least when Night 1 starts. Maybe a blue role is misslynched or modkilled or something this day.
This goes for the other people talking about blues too.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2012 02:30 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 23:43 Blurry wrote:On January 05 2012 13:08 CookieMaker wrote:On January 05 2012 12:46 Jitsu wrote:
RE: Cookie, Analysis
Damn, you're "Big Read" is of a suspected town player.
And another suspected town player.
Instead of posting who you think the Town players are, why don't you actually give us some reads on who the Scum players are? I think that would be more beneficial in a game where finding Mafia matters. Especially since we're 24 hours in and I don't clearly recall you posting any scum tell.
At all.
Then it's a good thing I caught up before posting #3.
Your evidence was everything I had against Cats. My plan was to transition out of "Sheth should have put more pressure on him" into "... and this is why". I felt like I was getting unlucky after analyzing 4-5 players and coming up with zero good scum reads and only 1-2 town reads (despite the consensus against Ceph, I'm still confident in my read). Finally when I stumble upon a clear winner for wishy-washy of the year award, you've already beaten me to it. Cats was going to be my big expose'.
##Vote for CatsnHats The "I don't have to post analysis because he already said it post" Other than that most of his posts have contributed nothing and have just been filler. Didn't post his reads on any players until he was pressured into doing it. Don't you think these could just as easily be newbslips rather then scumslips? 'least, thats the way it looks to me. On January 06 2012 01:49 Jitsu wrote:On January 05 2012 20:22 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:
1) If you were a Cop (could determine the alignment of somebody during the night), who's alignment would you check and why?
2) If you were a Doc (could save someone from a nightkill), who would you save and why?
3) If you were a Vigilante (town-aligned nightkill) who would you kill and why?
4) If you were a Town-Aligned Roleblocker (could prevent someone from using their night action for a night) who would you block, and why? (Also, remember, an RB can act as a soft-cop. If you block someone and there's no nightkill, you may have blocked the mafia's kill! (Yes i know there's no Vig or RB in this setup.))
5) If you have a vote on someone currently, please explain your vote.
6) If you don't have a vote on somebody, please park your vote on someone. Have an opinion. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Abstainance lets scum hide amongst you!
There is e secplenty of discussion in the mean-time where questions like these waste more logical thought than is required. If you want to WIFOM the proposed blue specials, do it later, but as of right now, there are better things to discuss, especially with the limited time we have left in the day to center our votes on someone. The DT and Medic are both roles that will need to be smart about who they use it for. Why are you even bringing in a Vig/Role Blocker when they aren't even in the game for the Town? I think there is a better question to be asked right now. Cookie subbed out at a bad time for you Tea. I don't think i'm the only one that is suspicious of the role that Cookie was given. Now, onto the second part that caught my eye. The bolded part at the end - the simple "you." I assume the "Abstinence lets scum hide among "you" refers to the town. However, since I was given the role of VT, I would have worded it as "us." Scum slip this early? Not a good start. I still think that if Cats flips red, you will too. But I also think that you're role is red. On the contrary, i find that asking questions such as these provide responses which can be most telling! I know that there isnt a vig or a blocker in the game right now, but those are the standard four questions i tend to ask in mafia games (i usually play closed setups). Its not so much what you'd do with your role, its your reasoning that proves to be interesting. Incidentally, it appears that you think i am asking these questions in order to wine the actual power roles and scums attitude towards them. This is not the case - i am asking because this is a tool i have always found helpful to help hunt scum! As for the part that you bolded - i thought it was clear that the "You" referred to the people who abstained, not town as a whole. It seems you are clutching at straws! Are you asking me to roleclaim? Because i don't want to do that regardless of what my role is. I've always considered Role Claims to be Bad (with a capital B!) and only to be used as a last resort. I'm nowhere near my last resort yet. After all, i just started playing!I understand that CM has left me in a bit of a poor spot...i'd like to remind you that Newbs often make slips that look scummy but are in fact newbslips. Too many times i've mislynched newbs for these slips! I'd further like to ask that you judge me on the posts that i make if possible (the quantity of which will hopefully rise soon). Whilst i of course understand that this slot wasn't played solely by me, its rather more difficult to defend CM then it is to defend myself, because i dont know what drove his actions, yknow? As for my reads...i'm getting a couple of light ones right now, but i'd rather do it justice and make one Big post (like my Mechanics post) so that i can both collect all my reads in one place and give ample reasoning behind them. I intend to sit down for an hour or so to do this properly later on tonight when i can have an unbroken hour of just mafia. I'll prolly end up writing a couple of paragraphs on each player stating what i think of em.
This strikes me as odd.
Why are you so nervous about roleclaiming? You only have 2 votes on you, you aren't even in any danger of being lynched (for now).
That last "I'm nowhere near my last resort yet. After all I just started playing!" seems very nervous to me. People put the slightest of pressure on you with that "abstinence" thing and you crack like this?
+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On January 06 2012 01:49 Jitsu wrote:There is plenty of discussion in the mean-time where questions like these waste more logical thought than is required. If you want to WIFOM the proposed blue specials, do it later, but as of right now, there are better things to discuss, especially with the limited time we have left in the day to center our votes on someone. The DT and Medic are both roles that will need to be smart about who they use it for. Why are you even bringing in a Vig/Role Blocker when they aren't even in the game for the Town?
We don't know if there are blue roles or not, so I find it uncomfortable with people assuming there are.
Take into account that if scum have 3 goons, they know there is a blue role, so this could be regarded as a scumslip if you push it further.
Also, this is for the Medic/DT if there are:
Don't post assuming there are blue roles (yourself), scum can figure this out and kill you in a heartbeat.
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United States2095 Posts
So we've really gotten off topic here. We need 7 votes to get a lynch. We've all agreed we need a lynch today.
As far as I can tell (People format your votes like ##Vote: please )
Tunkeg - Gretorp --> A K C T
CatsnHats - Gretorp --> Cephiro
CookieMaker (A K C T) --> CatsnHats
Blurry ---> A K C T
Jitsu --> A K C T
Liquid`Sheth --> Cephiro
Probulous --> Cephiro
Gonzaw --> Xeris
So, as of now thats 8 votes out of 12. We need a majority of 7 to lynch.
Xeris, Gretorp, AnxiousHippo,Cephiro we NEED your vote!
Those of you who have your vote on A K C T are you willing to switch over to Cephiro if we don't have a lynch by the end of the day to at least get us a lynch? Who will be on for Lynch time? We lynch in exactly 4 Hours 23 Minutes from now.
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United States2095 Posts
@Gonzaw see'ing your vote is still on Xeris, who do you plan on switching to out of A K C T or Cephiro? And why?
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Wut?
My vote is on Cookie/Tea, and it will stay the same for now, at least until Tea responds back.
I thought Cookie was scum, and Tea isn't doing anything to change my mind.
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EBWOP:
Although, Xeris became active just now (for a bit at least) and I'd like some pressure on him. I think he's being inconsistent, even though he has like 4 posts.
Although voting him will do us no good, and most likely result in a no-lynch.
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EBWOP2:
Oh, forgot Tunkeg voted Tea too.
I should correct that part where I said "you only have 2 votes on you".
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2012 02:30 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 23:43 Blurry wrote:On January 05 2012 13:08 CookieMaker wrote:On January 05 2012 12:46 Jitsu wrote:
RE: Cookie, Analysis
Damn, you're "Big Read" is of a suspected town player.
And another suspected town player.
Instead of posting who you think the Town players are, why don't you actually give us some reads on who the Scum players are? I think that would be more beneficial in a game where finding Mafia matters. Especially since we're 24 hours in and I don't clearly recall you posting any scum tell.
At all. Then it's a good thing I caught up before posting #3. Your evidence was everything I had against Cats. My plan was to transition out of "Sheth should have put more pressure on him" into "... and this is why". I felt like I was getting unlucky after analyzing 4-5 players and coming up with zero good scum reads and only 1-2 town reads (despite the consensus against Ceph, I'm still confident in my read). Finally when I stumble upon a clear winner for wishy-washy of the year award, you've already beaten me to it. Cats was going to be my big expose'. ##Vote for CatsnHats The "I don't have to post analysis because he already said it post" Other than that most of his posts have contributed nothing and have just been filler. Didn't post his reads on any players until he was pressured into doing it. Don't you think these could just as easily be newbslips rather then scumslips? 'least, thats the way it looks to me. Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 01:49 Jitsu wrote:On January 05 2012 20:22 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:
1) If you were a Cop (could determine the alignment of somebody during the night), who's alignment would you check and why?
2) If you were a Doc (could save someone from a nightkill), who would you save and why?
3) If you were a Vigilante (town-aligned nightkill) who would you kill and why?
4) If you were a Town-Aligned Roleblocker (could prevent someone from using their night action for a night) who would you block, and why? (Also, remember, an RB can act as a soft-cop. If you block someone and there's no nightkill, you may have blocked the mafia's kill! (Yes i know there's no Vig or RB in this setup.))
5) If you have a vote on someone currently, please explain your vote.
6) If you don't have a vote on somebody, please park your vote on someone. Have an opinion. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Abstainance lets scum hide amongst you!
There is e secplenty of discussion in the mean-time where questions like these waste more logical thought than is required. If you want to WIFOM the proposed blue specials, do it later, but as of right now, there are better things to discuss, especially with the limited time we have left in the day to center our votes on someone. The DT and Medic are both roles that will need to be smart about who they use it for. Why are you even bringing in a Vig/Role Blocker when they aren't even in the game for the Town? I think there is a better question to be asked right now. Cookie subbed out at a bad time for you Tea. I don't think i'm the only one that is suspicious of the role that Cookie was given. Now, onto the second part that caught my eye. The bolded part at the end - the simple "you." I assume the "Abstinence lets scum hide among "you" refers to the town. However, since I was given the role of VT, I would have worded it as "us." Scum slip this early? Not a good start. I still think that if Cats flips red, you will too. But I also think that you're role is red. On the contrary, i find that asking questions such as these provide responses which can be most telling! I know that there isnt a vig or a blocker in the game right now, but those are the standard four questions i tend to ask in mafia games (i usually play closed setups). Its not so much what you'd do with your role, its your reasoning that proves to be interesting. Incidentally, it appears that you think i am asking these questions in order to wine the actual power roles and scums attitude towards them. This is not the case - i am asking because this is a tool i have always found helpful to help hunt scum! As for the part that you bolded - i thought it was clear that the "You" referred to the people who abstained, not town as a whole. It seems you are clutching at straws! Are you asking me to roleclaim? Because i don't want to do that regardless of what my role is. I've always considered Role Claims to be Bad (with a capital B!) and only to be used as a last resort. I'm nowhere near my last resort yet. After all, i just started playing! I understand that CM has left me in a bit of a poor spot...i'd like to remind you that Newbs often make slips that look scummy but are in fact newbslips. Too many times i've mislynched newbs for these slips! I'd further like to ask that you judge me on the posts that i make if possible (the quantity of which will hopefully rise soon). Whilst i of course understand that this slot wasn't played solely by me, its rather more difficult to defend CM then it is to defend myself, because i dont know what drove his actions, yknow? As for my reads...i'm getting a couple of light ones right now, but i'd rather do it justice and make one Big post (like my Mechanics post) so that i can both collect all my reads in one place and give ample reasoning behind them. I intend to sit down for an hour or so to do this properly later on tonight when i can have an unbroken hour of just mafia. I'll prolly end up writing a couple of paragraphs on each player stating what i think of em.
Where did I suggest you role claim? If you view it as such a bad idea, why would you even bring that notion up? Really?
It's rather hard to judge you based on you're posts now when we all have our own reads on players now. Just because you came in and subbed out doesn't mean you're role changed, similar to how if I subbed out now, people should still view my replacement as if it was me. Instead of telling us to disregard everything that was posted in you're capacity, come up with reasons now why we should disregard previous play.
RE: Gonzaw -
It's a scum slip that I said the proposed blue roles, and that DT and Medic need to be smart on who to activate their specials on. I think you're reading way too far into it. I'll say it again, as well as reiterate what has been said many times prior; talking about Blue roles at this point is stupid. We have no reason to even bring it up since this is lynch day, and we don't even know if they are in the game, as you said.
RE: Sheth/Votes -
Before I even decide to switch my vote to Cephiro, I want to see his response to the accusation post by Probu. That being said, I will have to re-read his entire filter again and make a judgement, but a lot of things Cephiro said early was pretty damning.
I have a question Sheth - earlier, you went to sleep teasing us with a post about some posts that were worrying you. The next day, you let us down by not giving us the post you said you were going to because the person under suspicion (Cephiro) came out with a [not very strong] analysis of every player in the game at the time, pretty much saying everyone was town and no one was really scummy.
Than you came out and in the next post in the thread, jump on the Cephiro bandwagon, and start trying to get others to jump on it too. Sheth, I've played two (including this game) games with you, but I do know you like to play logically. Can you post you're original feelings about Cephiro, and than how you're thoughts transformed throughout the game from newb null read to scum read?
What do you have to say to Cephiro if he said you were slightly neutral to scum?
Are you town, Sheth?
@Cephiro -
Along with you're defense, I have something to add as well. There are a lot of times early in the game where you are pushing the idea that you are town. A lot of what you said seems forced to me. Also, there is a point where you are jumping back and forth between a miss-lynch and no-lynch policy. Reading that from a scum point of view, it's almost like you are trying to put the idea back into the idea of the town.
What do you think of Sheth at this time, and why?
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so far this is the official votecount:
A Killer Cuppa Tea: Gonzaw, Tunkeg, Blurry
CatsnHats: Jitsu, (cookie's vote is not counted as he was replaced out)
Cephiro: Probulous, Liquid`Sheth, CatsnHats
Xeris: Anxious Hippo
If any of the information in this is inncorect, just revote in the correct format and I will make the needed adjustments.
The lynch deadline is in 3 hours and 28 minutes
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@Sheth, what do you think of AKCT/Cookie and Catsnhats?
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On January 06 2012 06:15 Jitsu wrote:RE: Gonzaw -
It's a scum slip that I said the proposed blue roles, and that DT and Medic need to be smart on who to activate their specials on. I think you're reading way too far into it. I'll say it again, as well as reiterate what has been said many times prior; talking about Blue roles at this point is stupid. We have no reason to even bring it up since this is lynch day, and we don't even know if they are in the game, as you said.
...wut?
You are admiting you scumsliped? Wtf?
Should I just assume that was a question and you fucked up the grammar or something?
Also, I was under the impression you were assuming there is a blue role, which is stupid at this point (even though there's 75% chance of there being at least 1 blue role, but again leave that to night 1 talk).
And like I said, if scum have 3 goons, they know for sure that there is a blue role, and therefore can scumslip.
Assuming there is a blue role, and this scumslip are almost impossible to distinguish, so if you are town just stop doing it (you and everybody else, specially the blue roles if there are any).
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There was supposed to be a question mark at the end of the sentence.
And you are telling me to stop talking about blue roles when i've said twice now that it's pointless to talk about them.
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On January 06 2012 06:26 Jitsu wrote:
There was supposed to be a question mark at the end of the sentence.
And you are telling me to stop talking about blue roles when i've said twice now that it's pointless to talk about them.
I'm telling you to stop assuming there are blue roles.
I was telling Tea to stop talking about blue roles (and Sheth, and those other guys that did so before, and the ones that answered Tea's questions).
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Mmm interesting night!
Welcome A Killer Cup of Tea. Given you have only a short while till lynch and you are a replacement, I would suggest asking questions of everyone is just taking time away from reading the thread. Your best bet to save yourself is come up with who think is mafia and why. We can judge you on that.
Lynch Cephiro. He has sullied this town for too long.
Finally, CookieMaker, if you are reading I hope you didn't take my case on you as a personal thing. It was just a case and as you see everyone who I think is scum gets the same treatment. Chat later!
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On January 06 2012 05:37 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
So we've really gotten off topic here. We need 7 votes to get a lynch. We've all agreed we need a lynch today.
As far as I can tell (People format your votes like ##Vote: please )
Tunkeg - Gretorp --> A K C T
CatsnHats - Gretorp --> Cephiro
CookieMaker (A K C T) --> CatsnHats
Blurry ---> A K C T
Jitsu --> A K C T
Liquid`Sheth --> Cephiro
Probulous --> Cephiro
Gonzaw --> Xeris
So, as of now thats 8 votes out of 12. We need a majority of 7 to lynch.
Xeris, Gretorp, AnxiousHippo,Cephiro we NEED your vote!
Those of you who have your vote on A K C T are you willing to switch over to Cephiro if we don't have a lynch by the end of the day to at least get us a lynch? Who will be on for Lynch time? We lynch in exactly 4 Hours 23 Minutes from now.
Well my biggest scumread is CM/AKCT. I have Ceph on pretty neutral. So I will stick by my vote. I will go to bed in like 45 minutes, and I really don't want a no-lynch. So please the rest of you who haven't voted, please vote and make your vote count.
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@ Ceph
This was your last post:
On January 06 2012 01:10 Cephiro wrote:
Okay everyone, I am back and catching up on the whole thread, re-reading everything a few times to be sure that I am not missing anything. I will soon be doing two bigger posts: One to respond against any accusations made on me & answering any possible questions, and another to share my analysis on every player (but myself).
Please deliver these posts as soon as possible. Stalling now is not a good idea for you...
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United States2095 Posts
On January 06 2012 06:15 Jitsu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2012 02:30 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 23:43 Blurry wrote:On January 05 2012 13:08 CookieMaker wrote:On January 05 2012 12:46 Jitsu wrote:
RE: Cookie, Analysis
Damn, you're "Big Read" is of a suspected town player.
And another suspected town player.
Instead of posting who you think the Town players are, why don't you actually give us some reads on who the Scum players are? I think that would be more beneficial in a game where finding Mafia matters. Especially since we're 24 hours in and I don't clearly recall you posting any scum tell.
At all. Then it's a good thing I caught up before posting #3. Your evidence was everything I had against Cats. My plan was to transition out of "Sheth should have put more pressure on him" into "... and this is why". I felt like I was getting unlucky after analyzing 4-5 players and coming up with zero good scum reads and only 1-2 town reads (despite the consensus against Ceph, I'm still confident in my read). Finally when I stumble upon a clear winner for wishy-washy of the year award, you've already beaten me to it. Cats was going to be my big expose'. ##Vote for CatsnHats The "I don't have to post analysis because he already said it post" Other than that most of his posts have contributed nothing and have just been filler. Didn't post his reads on any players until he was pressured into doing it. Don't you think these could just as easily be newbslips rather then scumslips? 'least, thats the way it looks to me. Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 01:49 Jitsu wrote:On January 05 2012 20:22 A Killer Cuppa Tea wrote:
1) If you were a Cop (could determine the alignment of somebody during the night), who's alignment would you check and why?
2) If you were a Doc (could save someone from a nightkill), who would you save and why?
3) If you were a Vigilante (town-aligned nightkill) who would you kill and why?
4) If you were a Town-Aligned Roleblocker (could prevent someone from using their night action for a night) who would you block, and why? (Also, remember, an RB can act as a soft-cop. If you block someone and there's no nightkill, you may have blocked the mafia's kill! (Yes i know there's no Vig or RB in this setup.))
5) If you have a vote on someone currently, please explain your vote.
6) If you don't have a vote on somebody, please park your vote on someone. Have an opinion. It doesn't matter if you're wrong. Abstainance lets scum hide amongst you!
There is e secplenty of discussion in the mean-time where questions like these waste more logical thought than is required. If you want to WIFOM the proposed blue specials, do it later, but as of right now, there are better things to discuss, especially with the limited time we have left in the day to center our votes on someone. The DT and Medic are both roles that will need to be smart about who they use it for. Why are you even bringing in a Vig/Role Blocker when they aren't even in the game for the Town? I think there is a better question to be asked right now. Cookie subbed out at a bad time for you Tea. I don't think i'm the only one that is suspicious of the role that Cookie was given. Now, onto the second part that caught my eye. The bolded part at the end - the simple "you." I assume the "Abstinence lets scum hide among "you" refers to the town. However, since I was given the role of VT, I would have worded it as "us." Scum slip this early? Not a good start. I still think that if Cats flips red, you will too. But I also think that you're role is red. On the contrary, i find that asking questions such as these provide responses which can be most telling! I know that there isnt a vig or a blocker in the game right now, but those are the standard four questions i tend to ask in mafia games (i usually play closed setups). Its not so much what you'd do with your role, its your reasoning that proves to be interesting. Incidentally, it appears that you think i am asking these questions in order to wine the actual power roles and scums attitude towards them. This is not the case - i am asking because this is a tool i have always found helpful to help hunt scum! As for the part that you bolded - i thought it was clear that the "You" referred to the people who abstained, not town as a whole. It seems you are clutching at straws! Are you asking me to roleclaim? Because i don't want to do that regardless of what my role is. I've always considered Role Claims to be Bad (with a capital B!) and only to be used as a last resort. I'm nowhere near my last resort yet. After all, i just started playing! I understand that CM has left me in a bit of a poor spot...i'd like to remind you that Newbs often make slips that look scummy but are in fact newbslips. Too many times i've mislynched newbs for these slips! I'd further like to ask that you judge me on the posts that i make if possible (the quantity of which will hopefully rise soon). Whilst i of course understand that this slot wasn't played solely by me, its rather more difficult to defend CM then it is to defend myself, because i dont know what drove his actions, yknow? As for my reads...i'm getting a couple of light ones right now, but i'd rather do it justice and make one Big post (like my Mechanics post) so that i can both collect all my reads in one place and give ample reasoning behind them. I intend to sit down for an hour or so to do this properly later on tonight when i can have an unbroken hour of just mafia. I'll prolly end up writing a couple of paragraphs on each player stating what i think of em. Where did I suggest you role claim? If you view it as such a bad idea, why would you even bring that notion up? Really? It's rather hard to judge you based on you're posts now when we all have our own reads on players now. Just because you came in and subbed out doesn't mean you're role changed, similar to how if I subbed out now, people should still view my replacement as if it was me. Instead of telling us to disregard everything that was posted in you're capacity, come up with reasons now why we should disregard previous play. RE: Gonzaw - It's a scum slip that I said the proposed blue roles, and that DT and Medic need to be smart on who to activate their specials on. I think you're reading way too far into it. I'll say it again, as well as reiterate what has been said many times prior; talking about Blue roles at this point is stupid. We have no reason to even bring it up since this is lynch day, and we don't even know if they are in the game, as you said. RE: Sheth/Votes - Before I even decide to switch my vote to Cephiro, I want to see his response to the accusation post by Probu. That being said, I will have to re-read his entire filter again and make a judgement, but a lot of things Cephiro said early was pretty damning. I have a question Sheth - earlier, you went to sleep teasing us with a post about some posts that were worrying you. The next day, you let us down by not giving us the post you said you were going to because the person under suspicion (Cephiro) came out with a [not very strong] analysis of every player in the game at the time, pretty much saying everyone was town and no one was really scummy. Than you came out and in the next post in the thread, jump on the Cephiro bandwagon, and start trying to get others to jump on it too. Sheth, I've played two (including this game) games with you, but I do know you like to play logically. Can you post you're original feelings about Cephiro, and than how you're thoughts transformed throughout the game from newb null read to scum read? What do you have to say to Cephiro if he said you were slightly neutral to scum? Are you town, Sheth? @Cephiro - Along with you're defense, I have something to add as well. There are a lot of times early in the game where you are pushing the idea that you are town. A lot of what you said seems forced to me. Also, there is a point where you are jumping back and forth between a miss-lynch and no-lynch policy. Reading that from a scum point of view, it's almost like you are trying to put the idea back into the idea of the town. What do you think of Sheth at this time, and why?
Yea, I went to bed with some good ideas and wanted to think about it before posting. When I woke up and saw the new post I wanted more time to look at it and I wasn't sure my original point was too valid because of his new post. Around this time Probulous made his full post before I could fully look at Cephiro's post. And after reading Prob's post it rang true with what I was thinking earlier and it invalidated a lot of my "well maybe he is just town and not scum after all" points. (The fact that he was being agressive back towards me, and towards others was what made me cautious These were some of the things that made me think he was scum :
"Also, it might even be that the mafia has a roleblocker but the town has no power roles, which renders the mafia roleblocker useless, making the situation even worse for them."
This post seemed off. Why would it be important that if a roleblocker from mafia isn't that good if we have no town roles. It just seems like something no town would think of. And the way its said just seems like hes trying really hard to insinuate that its "them" and "the mafia". Then :
Anyway, I think that we should try to be provocative and try to raise as much discussion as possible. In my opinion we should aim to lynch someone (hopefully scum) on D1.
This also rang bells. Town should never be "provocative", we should pressure. We don't want to create chaos we just want to use logic and pressure people. I geuss thats similar to provocative, but I think there's a difference. And saying that we aim to lynch someone "hopefully scum" just seems so bad. Obviously we want to lynch scum, why would you even say that? Its helpful either way, but clearly we want to lynch scum..
He then changes his opinion on no-lynch seemingly for no reason and says
"I'm not entirely convinced on a no-lynch, but I do agree that lynching a townie on D1 is a bad start. I think it comes down to how much information we'll have, if there are any seemingly scumreads I personally think we gain more as town if we try to lynch the scum, since if we hit, we are at a very good advantage."
Why would he say hes "not entirely convinced on a no-lynch. Just so many things that I think a mafia would make. Little things, but when added up they say a lot to me.
Then he says "Or random accusations to get people to talk." You don't do random accusations, you find reasons and you accuse intelligently. Only mafia want things to be random as far as accusations go because they have a higher percent to not get hit. All of these posts had me really worried when they were added together. I guess I should have brought all of this up earlier, but I thought Prob's post was good enough to get us lynching him. And these are my points after going back and re-thinking about it.
So jitsu, theres why I think hes scum. I am a townie, hopefully you'll see from my arguments. As to what I'd say to Cephiro if he says I'm null-scum, "Thats exactly what I'd expect scum to say" 
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EPT
