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TL Mafia XXXIX - Page 17

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
May 04 2011 12:42 GMT
#321
EDBWODP: To clarify, Irish's reaction to the vote was not nearly as important as the person who reacted to Irish's reaction. The accusation was a blanket statement with no foundation, everybody's reaction is going to be somewhat similar. However, the person who believes in such an empty accusation (or attempts to counter the accusation with another empty accusation) is the one that we should have focused on. Unfortunately, there were ~10 people who did that so it turned out to be more a nulltell.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
May 04 2011 12:47 GMT
#322
I am one of the people IP13 and chaos13 know from another forum. The other one is Coagulation.
Just putting it out there so you know he's not bullshitting anybody.
Life can only kill you once.
Conversion
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3308 Posts
May 04 2011 13:11 GMT
#323
I played in two games, BrownBear's mafia game (if you could even call that playing) where I was town and DocH's newbie mafia where I was mafia. Still pretty bad at this game.

To be honest I really don't have any opinions on anyone atm. I still think there's too many lurkers. The only playstyle I'm somewhat familiar with is Phoenix's since we were scumbuddies in newbie mafia, but he's not posting. Come out, phoenix!
chaos13
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada885 Posts
May 04 2011 13:37 GMT
#324
I have played in two games, both completed as town. In the first game I had the entire scum team nailed on day 3. In the second game I was killed on night 1, but I had 3/6 scum on Day 2 and 5/6 on Day 3. This one may be more difficult as I don't know many of you, and you are more experienced players, but I am good at analyzing people and picking out scum.

I realize I should not have come to Irish's defense so quickly. However, I have no patience for unfounded accusations leading to random lynches. I thought you simply misinterpreted his post to mean "I know the roles of 3-4 people" and wanted to correct you before you actually did vote for him and got a bandwagon on a potentially innocent townie.
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
May 04 2011 13:41 GMT
#325
I thought I will have any heavy read by the time I am back and game starts but..
the only thing I saw was
CHAOS.
Saying that,while someone says this,posting some rules being in the other thread,just doing a contribution without any value
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
May 04 2011 13:48 GMT
#326
Ok, so I've caught up right now and something in particular has caught my attention.

On May 04 2011 18:33 chaoser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 18:12 Forumite wrote:
On May 04 2011 15:09 AirbladeOrange wrote:
On May 04 2011 14:09 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so I posted that line just to see how people would respond. You can see that I didn't even post in the actual voting thread and already I think I've got some good reactions. Irish, why such a big response, going so far as to posting a link to another website, even saying that you would dismiss me and "not waste time on trying to convince someone I'm not scum". I didn't even actually vote for you, I posted some bolded words that could have easily been knocked down since there was no analysis behind it, and no logic behind it; it had nothing behind it. Why so serious? Why such a big reaction? Same thing to chaos13.

At the same time, why so much silence on the issue from people who were clearly present? Kitaman? You pop in to say that people shouldn't edit but you don't mention a single thing about Irish, a single thing about me, and a single thing about anything. What up?


I think this long of a post is more suspicious than anything irish punk dude said.

He does have a few points, people need to make constructive posts, even more so with a 30-player game. Also even this early it´s a good move to call out people on their scum-tells.


There's no real such thing as a scum-tell per say. TL doesn't really do the MS "You said good job to medic when he saved someone, you're scum!" kind of deal but there are limitations to what mafia can and can't do. Or at least feel comfortable with doing. If you look at XXXVII, you'll see that mafia found it very hard to make cases against each other and that ended up catching a lot of them. If you look at XXXXVIII, you can see that mafia were decently wishy-washy. By wishy-washy I don't mean they changed their opinions on things, but that they changed them based upon nothing, merely to please the rest of town.

In Simple Mafia, Town because Mafia were inactive and allowed town to dominate the discussion. Even so, you'll notice that most of the time it was town arguing against town, using weak arguments and trying to figure out alliances before anyone even flipped. That's bad play since you don't know how mafia will act towards each other. They could bus each other a bit, they could act friendly, or they might not interact at all. The point is that you should focus on a few people and then make judgements about connections AFTER the flip. On day one, conversation generation is the most important thing, even if it IS the 30th game we're discussing about lynching inactives or not. Pressure is also a good conversation generator and I know for a fact that GM's question asking helps too.

Mafia wants town to have no direction and I'm sure in this game, where it's filled with mostly newbies, the mafia aren't going to go out of their way to help newbie townies. As such, redtooth get's +townie points in my book. Townies should be sure to ask coaches for help and read over guides conveniently localed here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215574


That's all fine and all but the thing I find extremelly suspicious about this post is this:
Chaoser points out how redtooth post is pro-town and then he proceeds to do exactly what redtooth did. Why are making such a huge effort to appear pro-town chaoser? This post would have exactly the same content without the bolded part. The only thing this part adds is making YOU look more town.
chaos13
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada885 Posts
May 04 2011 14:06 GMT
#327
I'm inclined to agree with sandroba. Not only this, but they are seeming to contribute without actually contributing. What you posted is fluff that can easily be found elsewhere. There is no need to re-state it here when it is common sense. However big and impressive a post it is, it really hasn't contained any game-changing plans for finding scum.
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
May 04 2011 14:07 GMT
#328
Your attacks on Chaoser and redtooth are not supported by any evidence than nitpicking,yes they are posting without much value,but we are just starting off.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
sinani206
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1959 Posts
May 04 2011 14:19 GMT
#329
On May 04 2011 21:47 Jackal58 wrote:
I am one of the people IP13 and chaos13 know from another forum. The other one is Coagulation.
Just putting it out there so you know he's not bullshitting anybody.

Read the two posts above you.
He did it to see who would jump on it, not to actually accuse Irish.
literally everything is wifom just shut the fuck up
Rising_Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States370 Posts
May 04 2011 14:29 GMT
#330
On May 04 2011 22:11 Conversion wrote:
I played in two games, BrownBear's mafia game (if you could even call that playing) where I was town and DocH's newbie mafia where I was mafia. Still pretty bad at this game.

To be honest I really don't have any opinions on anyone atm. I still think there's too many lurkers. The only playstyle I'm somewhat familiar with is Phoenix's since we were scumbuddies in newbie mafia, but he's not posting. Come out, phoenix!


Sorry I can't post while I'm asleep >.< Hi buddy!

Also what's with all these vets posting huge guides of how to play the game? It's not like we can't read the guides already on this and other sites with useful information. We do need a leader to help lead conversation and we need to be certain that the person isn't mafia.

I'm against a "day 1 inactive lynch" Unless we REALLY need to do it. Usually inactives are just disinterested townies, and if we go around lynching random people chances are we'll just hit a townie (simple math says 20% chance of mafia)

I also don't see a point in talking about our previous games experience. Really it seems like an easy way to clutter a thread. If you want to see their previous games, go into their post history unless they have a smurf. It seems like we know the people with smurfs so does it really matter? And also isn't it illegal to have two accounts on the site?

I feel huge day1 "newbies guides" are kinda useless and suspicious. While we definitely need direction, guides IN THREAD about how to play the game ore mostly filler. Most of what people said have been said are in guides both on this and other sites. I'm not saying it's suspicious but I am saying it's unnecessary and in general a pretty useless post.
Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4353 Posts
May 04 2011 14:31 GMT
#331
I am unfamiliar with the following names and would like to know if people think they are smurfs:

eternalmisfit
varpuliS
sinani206
elmizzt
Lyter
Takuna
Cthsasa

Node, this may seem like a question with an obvious answer, but can a Day Vigilante be roleblocked? It's pretty good for us if not.

On May 04 2011 22:48 sandroba wrote:
Ok, so I've caught up right now and something in particular has caught my attention.

Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 18:33 chaoser wrote:
On May 04 2011 18:12 Forumite wrote:
On May 04 2011 15:09 AirbladeOrange wrote:
On May 04 2011 14:09 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so I posted that line just to see how people would respond. You can see that I didn't even post in the actual voting thread and already I think I've got some good reactions. Irish, why such a big response, going so far as to posting a link to another website, even saying that you would dismiss me and "not waste time on trying to convince someone I'm not scum". I didn't even actually vote for you, I posted some bolded words that could have easily been knocked down since there was no analysis behind it, and no logic behind it; it had nothing behind it. Why so serious? Why such a big reaction? Same thing to chaos13.

At the same time, why so much silence on the issue from people who were clearly present? Kitaman? You pop in to say that people shouldn't edit but you don't mention a single thing about Irish, a single thing about me, and a single thing about anything. What up?


I think this long of a post is more suspicious than anything irish punk dude said.

He does have a few points, people need to make constructive posts, even more so with a 30-player game. Also even this early it´s a good move to call out people on their scum-tells.


There's no real such thing as a scum-tell per say. TL doesn't really do the MS "You said good job to medic when he saved someone, you're scum!" kind of deal but there are limitations to what mafia can and can't do. Or at least feel comfortable with doing. If you look at XXXVII, you'll see that mafia found it very hard to make cases against each other and that ended up catching a lot of them. If you look at XXXXVIII, you can see that mafia were decently wishy-washy. By wishy-washy I don't mean they changed their opinions on things, but that they changed them based upon nothing, merely to please the rest of town.

In Simple Mafia, Town because Mafia were inactive and allowed town to dominate the discussion. Even so, you'll notice that most of the time it was town arguing against town, using weak arguments and trying to figure out alliances before anyone even flipped. That's bad play since you don't know how mafia will act towards each other. They could bus each other a bit, they could act friendly, or they might not interact at all. The point is that you should focus on a few people and then make judgements about connections AFTER the flip. On day one, conversation generation is the most important thing, even if it IS the 30th game we're discussing about lynching inactives or not. Pressure is also a good conversation generator and I know for a fact that GM's question asking helps too.

Mafia wants town to have no direction and I'm sure in this game, where it's filled with mostly newbies, the mafia aren't going to go out of their way to help newbie townies. As such, redtooth get's +townie points in my book. Townies should be sure to ask coaches for help and read over guides conveniently localed here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215574


That's all fine and all but the thing I find extremelly suspicious about this post is this:
Chaoser points out how redtooth post is pro-town and then he proceeds to do exactly what redtooth did. Why are making such a huge effort to appear pro-town chaoser? This post would have exactly the same content without the bolded part. The only thing this part adds is making YOU look more town.

Chaoser is quite active so far and his history has been that he is much more active as town than mafia. I don't think he is worthy of suspicion as yet.

Waiting on a reply from AO.
Kita has still not replied to chaoser.
Sucker for nostalgia
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 04 2011 14:36 GMT
#332
I don´t have many suspicions so far, it´s early in the game and the discussion hasn´t started up yet. Right now I´m looking at Orgolove for making a very weak case against redtooth, using very old posts, I think it was mildly scummy, borderline lying, and I´d like a response from him.

Back in a few hours.
:3
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 04 2011 14:38 GMT
#333
On May 04 2011 23:31 DropBear wrote:
I am unfamiliar with the following names and would like to know if people think they are smurfs:

eternalmisfit
varpuliS
sinani206
elmizzt
Lyter
Takuna
Cthsasa

Node, this may seem like a question with an obvious answer, but can a Day Vigilante be roleblocked? It's pretty good for us if not.

Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 22:48 sandroba wrote:
Ok, so I've caught up right now and something in particular has caught my attention.

On May 04 2011 18:33 chaoser wrote:
On May 04 2011 18:12 Forumite wrote:
On May 04 2011 15:09 AirbladeOrange wrote:
On May 04 2011 14:09 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so I posted that line just to see how people would respond. You can see that I didn't even post in the actual voting thread and already I think I've got some good reactions. Irish, why such a big response, going so far as to posting a link to another website, even saying that you would dismiss me and "not waste time on trying to convince someone I'm not scum". I didn't even actually vote for you, I posted some bolded words that could have easily been knocked down since there was no analysis behind it, and no logic behind it; it had nothing behind it. Why so serious? Why such a big reaction? Same thing to chaos13.

At the same time, why so much silence on the issue from people who were clearly present? Kitaman? You pop in to say that people shouldn't edit but you don't mention a single thing about Irish, a single thing about me, and a single thing about anything. What up?


I think this long of a post is more suspicious than anything irish punk dude said.

He does have a few points, people need to make constructive posts, even more so with a 30-player game. Also even this early it´s a good move to call out people on their scum-tells.


There's no real such thing as a scum-tell per say. TL doesn't really do the MS "You said good job to medic when he saved someone, you're scum!" kind of deal but there are limitations to what mafia can and can't do. Or at least feel comfortable with doing. If you look at XXXVII, you'll see that mafia found it very hard to make cases against each other and that ended up catching a lot of them. If you look at XXXXVIII, you can see that mafia were decently wishy-washy. By wishy-washy I don't mean they changed their opinions on things, but that they changed them based upon nothing, merely to please the rest of town.

In Simple Mafia, Town because Mafia were inactive and allowed town to dominate the discussion. Even so, you'll notice that most of the time it was town arguing against town, using weak arguments and trying to figure out alliances before anyone even flipped. That's bad play since you don't know how mafia will act towards each other. They could bus each other a bit, they could act friendly, or they might not interact at all. The point is that you should focus on a few people and then make judgements about connections AFTER the flip. On day one, conversation generation is the most important thing, even if it IS the 30th game we're discussing about lynching inactives or not. Pressure is also a good conversation generator and I know for a fact that GM's question asking helps too.

Mafia wants town to have no direction and I'm sure in this game, where it's filled with mostly newbies, the mafia aren't going to go out of their way to help newbie townies. As such, redtooth get's +townie points in my book. Townies should be sure to ask coaches for help and read over guides conveniently localed here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215574


That's all fine and all but the thing I find extremelly suspicious about this post is this:
Chaoser points out how redtooth post is pro-town and then he proceeds to do exactly what redtooth did. Why are making such a huge effort to appear pro-town chaoser? This post would have exactly the same content without the bolded part. The only thing this part adds is making YOU look more town.

Chaoser is quite active so far and his history has been that he is much more active as town than mafia. I don't think he is worthy of suspicion as yet.

Waiting on a reply from AO.
Kita has still not replied to chaoser.

eternalmisfit
varpuliS
elmizzt


The ones above are new, and played in the Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia I, along with me.
:3
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
May 04 2011 14:42 GMT
#334
On May 04 2011 16:27 redtooth wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Longpost:

Hello all. Your friendly neighborhood redtooth (aka WRAWRAWRAWRA) here. I've been gone from this forum for quite a long time so there are a lot of new faces that I don't really recognize. Some of you I do recognize but it has been too long for me to remember your meta anyways. Before we continue, let's just lay down a framework-of-sorts for being awesome:


Rule 1: Don't lurk
Lurking is bad - this is the first thing you should learn as a mafia player. In a worst-case scenario, the town may policy-lynch you and waste an entire day simply because you were too forgetful or too lazy to post . In a best-case scenario, you are still a potential scum suspect simply because you were lurking, a situation that could have been avoided had you actively contributed to the thread. If you want to win then don’t lurk.

However, lurking isn’t limited to not posting either. “Active lurking” (the act of posting already stated ideas or not contributing any novel content in a post) is just as detrimental to the town and should be avoided at all costs. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel with every post but do your best to be as pro-town as possible in each and every post.


Rule 2: Don't spam
While activity within the thread is highly encouraged, creating meaningless and contentless clutter is just as anti-town an action. There will be varying degrees of time commitment exhibited by the other players and it discourages people from actively and substantively posting if there are 30 pages of clutter they have to go through every time they log on. That means no one-liner posts, even if they are votes (you should be explaining your vote anyways). Also included in that category are off-topic shit, comments on how exasperated you are, etc. On the flip side, don’t create massive walls of quotes as they simply get gleaned over more often than not (I am breaking my own rule here with this post). Random townies are more likely to quit out of boredom than scum are so try your best to be concise and be precise.

On that note, if non-players (coaches, audience, not-mods) could keep their discussions out of the thread the town would greatly appreciate it. Let’s create a clutter-free environment.


Rule 3: Never Give Up
This is directed at townies. If you're scum, by all means feel free to give up and get modkilled or bussed. However, as mentioned above, it is likely that townies will lose interest in the game much faster than scum will. There are two provisions to this rule: don't stop participating and don't stop defending.

Sometimes your ideas are overlooked or cast aside simply due to the number of strategies or targets being promoted. That doesn’t mean you should stop participating. The town may be tunneling, they may be overlooking something, you may see a scumtell nobody else believes, etc. Each members’ participation is vital to a successful town operation.

Also, there will be cases where you feel extremely frustrated at the (bullshit) evidence being thrown at you despite the fact that you are town. While you may not want to purposefully drag attention to yourself beforehand (since it would be better served looking for actual scum), you should relish the opportunity to defend yourself. A well explained defense can raise the confidence others have in you and gives you more credence in town. Also, getting lynched when you’re town is not only bad for yourself but bad for the town. Do your best to stay alive. No matter how daunting the argument is, don’t give up and keep fighting until you take your last breath or the town sees the light.


Rule 4: Kill Scum
It’s such a simple rule but people (including myself) tend to forget it consistently. Every action you take should ultimately be an attempt to promote town activities and hunt/find scum. Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing is not something that we benefit from and only serves to boost your ego and create rifts in the town. However, if you really feel that playing devil’s advocate is necessary then by all means go ahead. At the same time, be wary of tunneling (focusing exclusively on one person) as your conviction may convince others to pursue an incorrect lynch. Always have an open mind and a desire to be correct more than to win in your argument. Just remember to keep the main objectives in mind: find scum, prosecute scum, lynch scum, beat scum.


Rule 5: Have Fun
Ultimately, the game is meant to have fun. I will be the first person to admit that this is not always the case as emotions often run rampant. However, do your best not only to have fun for yourself but to promote fun for others. That means trying not to get personal with arguments/defenses and trying your hardest to be the best player you could possibly be.

Also, many players are discouraged when they are given the role of town. Sometimes we think it’s a curse to be one of the many generic roles. People have different tastes but I personally believe it to be just as fun (if not more fun) than being scum. If you’re still not motivated, think of it this way: while sheeping the town is a great feeling, there is no better feeling than nailing a good scum to the wall after a war of words. Be active, be intelligent, kill scum, and enjoy.


Those were all I could think of for now. Follow these guidelines and SCUM WILL LOSE GUARANTEED. Go town!


Oh god. Didn't Kavdragon just get lynched last game for these kind of posts? I had a good feeling about you at first redtooth with the way you've been trying to scum hunt from the start, but these type of blah blah blah posts make me weary. Especially anyone that feels its necessary to say "Go town!" at the end of their posts -_-

On May 04 2011 16:35 redtooth wrote:
To start off, let's have everybody answer the following question:
What is your mafia experience/backround like?
This can be experience in IRL mafia, approximate # of TL mafia games played, experience playing on mafiascum, "I just arrived from Noobtown", etc. Thanks!


I'll bite I guess. I've played 11-12 games. Still pretty noobish, but I would like to think I'm better than my first game.

On May 04 2011 17:52 chaoser wrote:
@kitaman, what do you think about the various people coming to Irish's defense with weak chainsaws? Newbie townie or devious scum?


There wasn't exactly a case against him, so irish probably came out looking the worst out of everyone. It has pretty much dominated discussion so far, but I guess it is better than the "lynch inactives" campaigns we usually hear day one. I do find it Interesting that you infer anyone that defended Irish is either a newbie or a scum. Does this mean you think Irish is scum? Also, do you know redtooth from before? It seemed as if your plans were coordinated and now you are giving him town points for his wall of text.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
May 04 2011 14:50 GMT
#335
On May 04 2011 22:37 chaos13 wrote:
I realize I should not have come to Irish's defense so quickly.


Huh? Why should you be worried about coming to people's defense? Only scum worry about getting connected to others. A town does not feel guilty about standing up for someone they feel is innocent.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Lyter
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2145 Posts
May 04 2011 14:54 GMT
#336
On May 04 2011 16:35 redtooth wrote:

To start off, let's have everybody answer the following question:
What is your mafia experience/backround like?
This can be experience in IRL mafia, approximate # of TL mafia games played, experience playing on mafiascum, "I just arrived from Noobtown", etc. Thanks!


This is my first game of Mafia on a forum, I've played quite a lot of the Mafia custom on SC2 so I know how it works but I'd consider myself a newbie in a big forum game like this.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
May 04 2011 15:01 GMT
#337
Anyone that posts their history should probably also post a thought on the game so far. Otherwise, people are getting away with jumping in without saying anything and we're left with pages of spam.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Eternalmisfit
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States643 Posts
May 04 2011 15:19 GMT
#338
I am not too sold on lynching inactives in this large a setup but I do agree that we should keep tabs on who was actively posting and reading the thread.

People who are MIA till this point:
jaminz
VarpuliS
aidnai
Mig
Takuna
Amber[Light]
GGQ
Beneather

VarpuliS - I would like to hear your thoughts on posts till now. You were quite active as town in Surprising Normal Mafia and seems surprising to not see you post much here.

I don't believe that he is necessarily scum but in order to pressure him to post.

##Vote: VarpuliS
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
May 04 2011 15:21 GMT
#339
On May 04 2011 23:31 DropBear wrote:
I am unfamiliar with the following names and would like to know if people think they are smurfs:

eternalmisfit
varpuliS
sinani206
elmizzt
Lyter
Takuna
Cthsasa

Node, this may seem like a question with an obvious answer, but can a Day Vigilante be roleblocked? It's pretty good for us if not.


A Day Vigilante's ability cannot be prevented via roleblock.

Also I don't want to influence the game directly, but I don't want to see this game consumed by "is he a smurf" discussion. Nobody has PM'd me regarding their smurfi-ness, and as such I don't believe there are any smurfs in this game.
whole lies with a half smile
chaos13
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada885 Posts
May 04 2011 15:23 GMT
#340
On May 04 2011 23:50 kitaman27 wrote:


Huh? Why should you be worried about coming to people's defense? Only scum worry about getting connected to others. A town does not feel guilty about standing up for someone they feel is innocent.


Because I don't know if he is innocent or not yet.
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