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TL Mafia XXXIX - Page 16

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
May 04 2011 07:27 GMT
#301
Longpost:

Hello all. Your friendly neighborhood redtooth (aka WRAWRAWRAWRA) here. I've been gone from this forum for quite a long time so there are a lot of new faces that I don't really recognize. Some of you I do recognize but it has been too long for me to remember your meta anyways. Before we continue, let's just lay down a framework-of-sorts for being awesome:


Rule 1: Don't lurk
Lurking is bad - this is the first thing you should learn as a mafia player. In a worst-case scenario, the town may policy-lynch you and waste an entire day simply because you were too forgetful or too lazy to post . In a best-case scenario, you are still a potential scum suspect simply because you were lurking, a situation that could have been avoided had you actively contributed to the thread. If you want to win then don’t lurk.

However, lurking isn’t limited to not posting either. “Active lurking” (the act of posting already stated ideas or not contributing any novel content in a post) is just as detrimental to the town and should be avoided at all costs. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel with every post but do your best to be as pro-town as possible in each and every post.


Rule 2: Don't spam
While activity within the thread is highly encouraged, creating meaningless and contentless clutter is just as anti-town an action. There will be varying degrees of time commitment exhibited by the other players and it discourages people from actively and substantively posting if there are 30 pages of clutter they have to go through every time they log on. That means no one-liner posts, even if they are votes (you should be explaining your vote anyways). Also included in that category are off-topic shit, comments on how exasperated you are, etc. On the flip side, don’t create massive walls of quotes as they simply get gleaned over more often than not (I am breaking my own rule here with this post). Random townies are more likely to quit out of boredom than scum are so try your best to be concise and be precise.

On that note, if non-players (coaches, audience, not-mods) could keep their discussions out of the thread the town would greatly appreciate it. Let’s create a clutter-free environment.


Rule 3: Never Give Up
This is directed at townies. If you're scum, by all means feel free to give up and get modkilled or bussed. However, as mentioned above, it is likely that townies will lose interest in the game much faster than scum will. There are two provisions to this rule: don't stop participating and don't stop defending.

Sometimes your ideas are overlooked or cast aside simply due to the number of strategies or targets being promoted. That doesn’t mean you should stop participating. The town may be tunneling, they may be overlooking something, you may see a scumtell nobody else believes, etc. Each members’ participation is vital to a successful town operation.

Also, there will be cases where you feel extremely frustrated at the (bullshit) evidence being thrown at you despite the fact that you are town. While you may not want to purposefully drag attention to yourself beforehand (since it would be better served looking for actual scum), you should relish the opportunity to defend yourself. A well explained defense can raise the confidence others have in you and gives you more credence in town. Also, getting lynched when you’re town is not only bad for yourself but bad for the town. Do your best to stay alive. No matter how daunting the argument is, don’t give up and keep fighting until you take your last breath or the town sees the light.


Rule 4: Kill Scum
It’s such a simple rule but people (including myself) tend to forget it consistently. Every action you take should ultimately be an attempt to promote town activities and hunt/find scum. Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing is not something that we benefit from and only serves to boost your ego and create rifts in the town. However, if you really feel that playing devil’s advocate is necessary then by all means go ahead. At the same time, be wary of tunneling (focusing exclusively on one person) as your conviction may convince others to pursue an incorrect lynch. Always have an open mind and a desire to be correct more than to win in your argument. Just remember to keep the main objectives in mind: find scum, prosecute scum, lynch scum, beat scum.


Rule 5: Have Fun
Ultimately, the game is meant to have fun. I will be the first person to admit that this is not always the case as emotions often run rampant. However, do your best not only to have fun for yourself but to promote fun for others. That means trying not to get personal with arguments/defenses and trying your hardest to be the best player you could possibly be.

Also, many players are discouraged when they are given the role of town. Sometimes we think it’s a curse to be one of the many generic roles. People have different tastes but I personally believe it to be just as fun (if not more fun) than being scum. If you’re still not motivated, think of it this way: while sheeping the town is a great feeling, there is no better feeling than nailing a good scum to the wall after a war of words. Be active, be intelligent, kill scum, and enjoy.


Those were all I could think of for now. Follow these guidelines and SCUM WILL LOSE GUARANTEED. Go town!
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
May 04 2011 07:35 GMT
#302
(4th Post in a Row)

Also remember not to edit as this is a rule not a suggestion. If you really need to add something preface it with EDBWODP (edit by way of double post).



To start off, let's have everybody answer the following question:
What is your mafia experience/backround like?
This can be experience in IRL mafia, approximate # of TL mafia games played, experience playing on mafiascum, "I just arrived from Noobtown", etc. Thanks!
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
orgolove
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Vatican City State1650 Posts
May 04 2011 07:36 GMT
#303
redtooth, what was the name of your smurf during haunted mafia?
초대 갓, 이영호 | First God, Lee Young Ho
orgolove
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Vatican City State1650 Posts
May 04 2011 07:38 GMT
#304
Oh, and insane 2 too. Both games you apparently went by another name.
초대 갓, 이영호 | First God, Lee Young Ho
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
May 04 2011 07:46 GMT
#305
I've been gone from mafia forum for over a year now. If they're recent, I definitely didn't play in them. If they're not, I simply don't remember. The only smurf game I played was the invite-only one waaay back where I got policy-lynched for inactivity since I didn't realize the game had started (I still maintain that it was the host's fault for not alerting me on my main acc haha).

Answer my question too sucker. Or are you trying to dodge because you're scum?!?!?!
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
orgolove
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Vatican City State1650 Posts
May 04 2011 08:19 GMT
#306
Lies.

Haunted Mafia:
On October 24 2010 07:47 redtooth wrote:
vote HeavOnEarth

On October 24 2010 09:58 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2010 09:44 zerroth wrote:
On October 24 2010 09:25 SiNiquity wrote:
On October 24 2010 07:47 redtooth wrote:
vote HeavOnEarth

... wtf.



? Whats up?

Unvote
vote HeavOnEarth

redtooth isn't playing.
He probably forgot to log onto his smurf



Insane
On April 04 2011 18:20 redtooth wrote:
can we wait til insane 2 ends? then i can be in this one =)



Another (as of yet unknown) game:
On March 15 2011 05:31 redtooth wrote:
can i /in?
i haven't played a game in so long.
is playing in 2 concurrent games still allowed?

not the item game btw.



Lynch all liars.
초대 갓, 이영호 | First God, Lee Young Ho
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 04 2011 08:23 GMT
#307
hahahahahahaha

gg redtooth
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 04 2011 08:41 GMT
#308
Lol, Orgolove has got a point, although I will give redtooth the benefit of the doubt for now.

I have a general question to people. This game has 30 players, meaning that we have 29 possible scum to investigate. Personally that´s a bit hefty for the classical post-by-post check of everyone. Many other players will quickly jump on any scummy posts and bring them to attention, but that doesn´t help finding the scum that are good at looking like scum. Does anyone have a good idea on how to effectively scum-hunt in a big game like this? Would checking up on a random player be a good tactic?
:3
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 04 2011 08:44 GMT
#309
On May 04 2011 17:19 orgolove wrote:
Lies.

Haunted Mafia:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2010 07:47 redtooth wrote:
vote HeavOnEarth

Show nested quote +
On October 24 2010 09:58 LSB wrote:
On October 24 2010 09:44 zerroth wrote:
On October 24 2010 09:25 SiNiquity wrote:
On October 24 2010 07:47 redtooth wrote:
vote HeavOnEarth

... wtf.



? Whats up?

Unvote
vote HeavOnEarth

redtooth isn't playing.
He probably forgot to log onto his smurf



Insane
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2011 18:20 redtooth wrote:
can we wait til insane 2 ends? then i can be in this one =)



Another (as of yet unknown) game:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2011 05:31 redtooth wrote:
can i /in?
i haven't played a game in so long.
is playing in 2 concurrent games still allowed?

not the item game btw.



Lynch all liars.

Orgolove? What is the point of these accusations? They are extremely old posts, and none of them seem to be lies, at least not the the ones from April 4 and March 15
:3
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
May 04 2011 08:52 GMT
#310
doesn´t help finding the scum that are good at looking like scum


If there's scum that look like scum, we'd find them easy. Go read past games but being active, looking for contradictions, for forced posting, for wishy-washy stance taking. Those are all usually weaknesses of scum. Scum obviously find it hard if you start to build a legitimate case against one of their own, even more so if you push them to take a stance on an issue. As the game goes on it's easier and easier to find connections between people and those who flip red when they die. Just post constructively, pressure people you find scummy, and you should be fine. Keep a straight head on your shoulders and a clear mind.

Be on the look out for people posting things that aren't very helpful and generally talking in circles cause that's usually another scum tell too.

@orgolove I think redtooth didn't actually play in those games, he just posted that he wanted in but cause he was banned, he couldn't play.

@kitaman, what do you think about the various people coming to Irish's defense with weak chainsaws? Newbie townie or devious scum?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 04 2011 09:12 GMT
#311
On May 04 2011 15:09 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 14:09 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so I posted that line just to see how people would respond. You can see that I didn't even post in the actual voting thread and already I think I've got some good reactions. Irish, why such a big response, going so far as to posting a link to another website, even saying that you would dismiss me and "not waste time on trying to convince someone I'm not scum". I didn't even actually vote for you, I posted some bolded words that could have easily been knocked down since there was no analysis behind it, and no logic behind it; it had nothing behind it. Why so serious? Why such a big reaction? Same thing to chaos13.

At the same time, why so much silence on the issue from people who were clearly present? Kitaman? You pop in to say that people shouldn't edit but you don't mention a single thing about Irish, a single thing about me, and a single thing about anything. What up?


I think this long of a post is more suspicious than anything irish punk dude said.

He does have a few points, people need to make constructive posts, even more so with a 30-player game. Also even this early it´s a good move to call out people on their scum-tells.
:3
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
May 04 2011 09:33 GMT
#312
On May 04 2011 18:12 Forumite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 15:09 AirbladeOrange wrote:
On May 04 2011 14:09 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so I posted that line just to see how people would respond. You can see that I didn't even post in the actual voting thread and already I think I've got some good reactions. Irish, why such a big response, going so far as to posting a link to another website, even saying that you would dismiss me and "not waste time on trying to convince someone I'm not scum". I didn't even actually vote for you, I posted some bolded words that could have easily been knocked down since there was no analysis behind it, and no logic behind it; it had nothing behind it. Why so serious? Why such a big reaction? Same thing to chaos13.

At the same time, why so much silence on the issue from people who were clearly present? Kitaman? You pop in to say that people shouldn't edit but you don't mention a single thing about Irish, a single thing about me, and a single thing about anything. What up?


I think this long of a post is more suspicious than anything irish punk dude said.

He does have a few points, people need to make constructive posts, even more so with a 30-player game. Also even this early it´s a good move to call out people on their scum-tells.


There's no real such thing as a scum-tell per say. TL doesn't really do the MS "You said good job to medic when he saved someone, you're scum!" kind of deal but there are limitations to what mafia can and can't do. Or at least feel comfortable with doing. If you look at XXXVII, you'll see that mafia found it very hard to make cases against each other and that ended up catching a lot of them. If you look at XXXXVIII, you can see that mafia were decently wishy-washy. By wishy-washy I don't mean they changed their opinions on things, but that they changed them based upon nothing, merely to please the rest of town.

In Simple Mafia, Town because Mafia were inactive and allowed town to dominate the discussion. Even so, you'll notice that most of the time it was town arguing against town, using weak arguments and trying to figure out alliances before anyone even flipped. That's bad play since you don't know how mafia will act towards each other. They could bus each other a bit, they could act friendly, or they might not interact at all. The point is that you should focus on a few people and then make judgements about connections AFTER the flip. On day one, conversation generation is the most important thing, even if it IS the 30th game we're discussing about lynching inactives or not. Pressure is also a good conversation generator and I know for a fact that GM's question asking helps too.

Mafia wants town to have no direction and I'm sure in this game, where it's filled with mostly newbies, the mafia aren't going to go out of their way to help newbie townies. As such, redtooth get's +townie points in my book. Townies should be sure to ask coaches for help and read over guides conveniently localed here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215574
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
May 04 2011 09:54 GMT
#313
Ya. Started. I was afraid everybody was going to /out for Ver's game.

To answer your question Redtooth - This might be about my 10th game here. Counting mini games. I've only survived once til the end I believe.
Life can only kill you once.
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4352 Posts
May 04 2011 11:34 GMT
#314
First of all, guten tag mein freunde! (did i get that right?)
On May 04 2011 16:27 redtooth wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Longpost:

Hello all. Your friendly neighborhood redtooth (aka WRAWRAWRAWRA) here. I've been gone from this forum for quite a long time so there are a lot of new faces that I don't really recognize. Some of you I do recognize but it has been too long for me to remember your meta anyways. Before we continue, let's just lay down a framework-of-sorts for being awesome:


Rule 1: Don't lurk
Lurking is bad - this is the first thing you should learn as a mafia player. In a worst-case scenario, the town may policy-lynch you and waste an entire day simply because you were too forgetful or too lazy to post . In a best-case scenario, you are still a potential scum suspect simply because you were lurking, a situation that could have been avoided had you actively contributed to the thread. If you want to win then don’t lurk.

However, lurking isn’t limited to not posting either. “Active lurking” (the act of posting already stated ideas or not contributing any novel content in a post) is just as detrimental to the town and should be avoided at all costs. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel with every post but do your best to be as pro-town as possible in each and every post.


Rule 2: Don't spam
While activity within the thread is highly encouraged, creating meaningless and contentless clutter is just as anti-town an action. There will be varying degrees of time commitment exhibited by the other players and it discourages people from actively and substantively posting if there are 30 pages of clutter they have to go through every time they log on. That means no one-liner posts, even if they are votes (you should be explaining your vote anyways). Also included in that category are off-topic shit, comments on how exasperated you are, etc. On the flip side, don’t create massive walls of quotes as they simply get gleaned over more often than not (I am breaking my own rule here with this post). Random townies are more likely to quit out of boredom than scum are so try your best to be concise and be precise.

On that note, if non-players (coaches, audience, not-mods) could keep their discussions out of the thread the town would greatly appreciate it. Let’s create a clutter-free environment.


Rule 3: Never Give Up
This is directed at townies. If you're scum, by all means feel free to give up and get modkilled or bussed. However, as mentioned above, it is likely that townies will lose interest in the game much faster than scum will. There are two provisions to this rule: don't stop participating and don't stop defending.

Sometimes your ideas are overlooked or cast aside simply due to the number of strategies or targets being promoted. That doesn’t mean you should stop participating. The town may be tunneling, they may be overlooking something, you may see a scumtell nobody else believes, etc. Each members’ participation is vital to a successful town operation.

Also, there will be cases where you feel extremely frustrated at the (bullshit) evidence being thrown at you despite the fact that you are town. While you may not want to purposefully drag attention to yourself beforehand (since it would be better served looking for actual scum), you should relish the opportunity to defend yourself. A well explained defense can raise the confidence others have in you and gives you more credence in town. Also, getting lynched when you’re town is not only bad for yourself but bad for the town. Do your best to stay alive. No matter how daunting the argument is, don’t give up and keep fighting until you take your last breath or the town sees the light.


Rule 4: Kill Scum
It’s such a simple rule but people (including myself) tend to forget it consistently. Every action you take should ultimately be an attempt to promote town activities and hunt/find scum. Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing is not something that we benefit from and only serves to boost your ego and create rifts in the town. However, if you really feel that playing devil’s advocate is necessary then by all means go ahead. At the same time, be wary of tunneling (focusing exclusively on one person) as your conviction may convince others to pursue an incorrect lynch. Always have an open mind and a desire to be correct more than to win in your argument. Just remember to keep the main objectives in mind: find scum, prosecute scum, lynch scum, beat scum.


Rule 5: Have Fun
Ultimately, the game is meant to have fun. I will be the first person to admit that this is not always the case as emotions often run rampant. However, do your best not only to have fun for yourself but to promote fun for others. That means trying not to get personal with arguments/defenses and trying your hardest to be the best player you could possibly be.

Also, many players are discouraged when they are given the role of town. Sometimes we think it’s a curse to be one of the many generic roles. People have different tastes but I personally believe it to be just as fun (if not more fun) than being scum. If you’re still not motivated, think of it this way: while sheeping the town is a great feeling, there is no better feeling than nailing a good scum to the wall after a war of words. Be active, be intelligent, kill scum, and enjoy.


Those were all I could think of for now. Follow these guidelines and SCUM WILL LOSE GUARANTEED. Go town!

This post is kind of unnecessary. In answer to your question, I have played one game before (XXXVIII) in which I was a Mafia Roleblocker.

On the first day of that game 2 people made long "policy" posts like this, GMarshal who was mafia and trying to look pro-town and Kavdragon who was townie and got lynched. You are either a mafia trying to hide in plain sight or just trying to launch some discussion. The lack of a mayor role to convince people that you are pro-town suggests mafia, your post history suggests that you talk a lot though. Your pushing of people also reminds me of DocH last game. You have piqued my interest but I'm not accusing you of anything just yet.

Regarding the defences of Irish_Punk, I don't see too much there. I can speak from experience in that being accused of being scum by an experienced player in your first game makes you panic a bit and post poorly, I think Conversion can say the same. It isn't enough to go on yet. Chaos13 is likely defending him because they are mates from outside TL.

We still haven't heard from many players yet. I would like to hear from aidnai who was a very vocal blue last game. Kenpachi also has a much smaller thread presence than usual.
GGQ, Mig, Amber[Light], jaminz, Beneather talk more!
Sucker for nostalgia
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4352 Posts
May 04 2011 11:41 GMT
#315
On May 04 2011 15:09 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 14:09 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so I posted that line just to see how people would respond. You can see that I didn't even post in the actual voting thread and already I think I've got some good reactions. Irish, why such a big response, going so far as to posting a link to another website, even saying that you would dismiss me and "not waste time on trying to convince someone I'm not scum". I didn't even actually vote for you, I posted some bolded words that could have easily been knocked down since there was no analysis behind it, and no logic behind it; it had nothing behind it. Why so serious? Why such a big reaction? Same thing to chaos13.

At the same time, why so much silence on the issue from people who were clearly present? Kitaman? You pop in to say that people shouldn't edit but you don't mention a single thing about Irish, a single thing about me, and a single thing about anything. What up?


I think this long of a post is more suspicious than anything irish punk dude said.

Could you expand on this please AO?
He's said a lot here and unlike redtooth it's substantial beyond "this is how to play guide"
Sucker for nostalgia
Eternalmisfit
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States643 Posts
May 04 2011 11:54 GMT
#316
@ Redtooth - I am fairly inexperienced at mafia and this is my second mafia game ever.

On accusation of Irish and follow-up
I do not buy on the initial accusation of redtooth that Irish is scum just because he said that he was looking forward to play with 3-4 people he knew from before. That by itself is a rather weak case and does not give a scum-signal.
The strong response of Irish on chaoser's vote is slightly more scummy to me. But, what seems scummy to me was chaos13's strong defense of Irish.

The way I interpret is that both are mafia and are looking out for each other (or) chaos13 is just looking out for Irish just because they know each other from before but they do not know each other's alignment.

At this point, the evidence based on posting is rather weak for me to vote on either of them and I won't go beyond just a FoS on them.

I am more concerned about the second possible interpretation. I think it would preferable that people defend others on basis of post analysis, activity, behavior on thread, and so on than standing up for folks just because of bias due to prior acquaintanceship. In the current case, if chaos13 is town, he cannot be sure of Irish's alignment at this point of time (barring methods breaking rules of the game) and thus he should leave Irish to make a defense for himself from such a weak accusation. Coming to the defense on him just sends scum vibes to others and if he is really town, it will just mislead the town.
PaqMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1475 Posts
May 04 2011 12:03 GMT
#317
Just finished reading all the posts. I must say, I haven't really seen a legitimate reason to be suspicious of anyone. Right now it's just a bunch of people pointing fingers at each other.
t(ツ)t
PaqMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1475 Posts
May 04 2011 12:09 GMT
#318
Heading out to school now. I'll be back in 8 hours.
t(ツ)t
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
May 04 2011 12:29 GMT
#319
Answering to Redtooth:
I played in a recent newbie game, so this is 2nd on TL. I´m relatively new to this forum.
:3
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
May 04 2011 12:37 GMT
#320
@orgolove - The first vote was a joke between me and HeavonEarth (who I know very well from LoL days) where I wasn't in the game at all and just decided to poke at him anyways. The second one was because I was banlisted and needed for that game to end before I could be cleared to join another. I think I ended up not joining up immediately afterwards because iirc something else came up. I mean think about it, lying about not having a smurf isn't something that's beneficial to me atm.

@DropBear - Yeah basics shouldn't have to be reiterated for each mafia game. However, when ~10 people (including yourself) jump on an obvious RVS vote and take it super serious, I think basics being laid out will at least somewhat benefit the town. The fact that the thread was being spammed to an extent didn't help either. Also, I have no idea how experienced 90% of you guys are.

Just to be clear (once again), the Irish thing was a stab at the dark in order to get some responses, not a real accusation. It did its job but got too many responses for it to be meaningful in any way (hence why I shifted focus to Cthsazsa for jumping on it but then dropped it after 5 more guys jumped on it immediately afterwards). I literally took a random post, quoted it, and said "obvscum". If you don't believe me, go read the post again and consider how generic and unfounded it is.

@Ace - I miss you. You should have played =(. In the meantime, gtfo thread plz.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
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