EPTComplexity Gaming: "We're going to do as much as we can to ensure signing a contract means something, in spite of how lame this situation is for everyone we are obligated"
Millenium: "We fart in your general direction"
Stephano contract situation - Page 154
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Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103) Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
Complexity Gaming: "We're going to do as much as we can to ensure signing a contract means something, in spite of how lame this situation is for everyone we are obligated" Millenium: "We fart in your general direction" | ||
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hephaestos
France54 Posts
On September 21 2011 06:17 Ammanas wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it true, that even if you lose a case in France, you can try to get your case for European tribunal in Haag, where European Union laws are used instead of French? Maybe that's just for the cases when you are going against the state though, not sure. The Haag court can only be summoned for (european) human rights infrigements. I'm not sure that would be reasonable in our case. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
great for Millenium and the French E-Sports scene. It's not good for the French E-Sports scene. Lets see any other teams wanting to contract with a mid-level French SC2 pro again. Shit like this is gunna scare other teams away. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On September 21 2011 09:18 rotegirte wrote: Trying to get your player back is unreasonable and disrespectful? Wow. It is if it involves making a player to back out of a contract he just signed. Its like Lakers trying to get back Kobe, right after he signed a contract to play 5 years for Miami Heats. It wouldn't fly. and it shouldn't. | ||
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ShadowBumble
Netherlands87 Posts
On September 21 2011 14:57 hephaestos wrote: The Haag court can only be summoned for (European) human rights infringements. I'm not sure that would be reasonable in our case. It's used for a number of things ( Source ) and it's best known for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, for the war crimes committed in Yugoslavia and the Ethnic Purge that happened there. But you can only make an appeal on it if the Supreme court of the country you are sueing in has been done, which in most cases will take several years to even reach to point that you can make an appeal at the Supreme Court. Other then that the Tribunal in Den Haag will only take a case if the original case was held in on of the Conventions of the PCA. ( France is part of the PCA ) Either way back to the eSport scene i think in all fairness a contract is binding untill one of them decides otherwise, in this case it appears that Stephano changed his mind after signing with Complexity, which in the end is Stephano as person the one who breaks the contract. The only thing Complexity can do is bring Stephano to court for breaking a legal binding document, this can result in a restriction that during the trial date and the point of submitting the case to court, Stephano can be told to not practice Starcraft 2 on a professional level or participate in any tournaments until the judge reached a verdict in the case. I am sure complexity will not take this route and tries the face to face route first with Millennium and Stephano, but in the end if they do not agree they can put Stephano on the side lines of Starcraft 2 until the court has decided. In either case i hope everything works out between Complexity and Stephano since this road will only lead to more drama, troubles and in the end it somebody will pick up the pieces. People should be careful when yelling that this will hurt eSports, since we all know ( at least i hope ) that it will , but the eSports already stepped out of the Childhood shoes and in fact is now just a global business market, where the same rules apply. | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
On September 21 2011 15:02 wei2coolman wrote: It's not good for the French E-Sports scene. Lets see any other teams wanting to contract with a mid-level French SC2 pro again. Shit like this is gunna scare other teams away. That's quite true but I would not call Stephano "mid-level" this guy is top-tier foreigner, no question | ||
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dennis83
2 Posts
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dennis83
2 Posts
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
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badkarma
Ireland3 Posts
I see a lot of speculation here, a lot of "why the hell is the french law like this, in the US, it's like that, bla bla bla". Who cares ? The law is the law, deal with it, stop asking questions that won't change what has been done. IMO, the only one who made a mistake here is Stephano, not coL, not M. A lot of you are speculating, arguing, declaring things as if they were truth.. The fact is, the only ones who knows the whole story are Mill, coL and Stephano. Everything else is speculation and/or bullshit. | ||
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var username
52 Posts
On September 21 2011 19:47 badkarma wrote: First of all, I'm French. So you can whine that I'm a nationalist patriotic guy, whatever, don't care. Second of all : I don't like at all Stephano. He may be a good player, but I really don't like his personnality, saw him sometimes in interviews, and he's despicable. He has a severe lack of maturity, and that whole story is just another proof of it. The least he can do after bringing such havoc would be to post, either here or on the Millenium website, or even on coL's one, whatever, but he should act like a man, for once, and stop hiding. I see a lot of speculation here, a lot of "why the hell is the french law like this, in the US, it's like that, bla bla bla". Who cares ? The law is the law, deal with it, stop asking questions that won't change what has been done. IMO, the only one who made a mistake here is Stephano, not coL, not M. A lot of you are speculating, arguing, declaring things as if they were truth.. The fact is, the only ones who knows the whole story are Mill, coL and Stephano. Everything else is speculation and/or bullshit. A law is not always right - thus explaining why there are amendments in Bills and Acts. | ||
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hephaestos
France54 Posts
On September 21 2011 17:14 ShadowBumble wrote: It's used for a number of things ( Source ) and it's best known for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, for the war crimes committed in Yugoslavia and the Ethnic Purge that happened there. But you can only make an appeal on it if the Supreme court of the country you are sueing in has been done, which in most cases will take several years to even reach to point that you can make an appeal at the Supreme Court. Other then that the Tribunal in Den Haag will only take a case if the original case was held in on of the Conventions of the PCA. ( France is part of the PCA ) Indeed, I mixed up the European Court of Human Right with the International Court of Justice, which is not a european court. Anyway, neither court would be suitable for our case. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Let's keep it a discussion between a player and two team. The main point is, if Stephano would have signed and officially gone to the US with CoL and then would have gone back to Mill, this would have been a very bad move. But Stephano had contracted with CoL since only a few hours : I suppose it's okay to admit that there is a certain time after the signing to retract yourself. | ||
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ShadowBumble
Netherlands87 Posts
On September 21 2011 20:12 WhiteDog wrote: I suppose it's okay to admit that there is a certain time after the signing to retract yourself. There is no grace period in a contract, otherwise it won't be a contract but an agreement. ( Which by law are 2 different things  ) | ||
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Tehs Tehklz
United States330 Posts
On September 21 2011 20:12 WhiteDog wrote: Since when the US is a good exemple of justice ?. Since 1776. Booyah! USA! USA! | ||
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DocGore
Germany15 Posts
On September 21 2011 20:12 WhiteDog wrote: This thread feel so full of pro US bullshit. Like saying french law should be like in the US. Since when the US is a good exemple of justice ? Let's keep it a discussion between a player and two team. The main point is, if Stephano would have signed and officially gone to the US with CoL and then would have gone back to Mill, this would have been a very bad move. But Stephano had contracted with CoL since only a few hours : I suppose it's okay to admit that there is a certain time after the signing to retract yourself. everyone here needs to calm down quite alot french are generally very protective of their country and culture, as shown in several laws to protect their language (the law that contracts must also be avaiable in french falls under that) - this makes them generally sound extremely aggressive, provoking the pro usa statements you speak of. tone down your own statements and others wont react so harshly. neither france nor usa bashing is in any form productive, nor does it help to drive the discussion along, so simply cut it | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
My understanding is that the contract would be void if it was misrepresented or not being given due consideration or if the terms specify a grace period for retraction. | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
On September 21 2011 20:12 WhiteDog wrote: This thread feel so full of pro US bullshit. Like saying french law should be like in the US. Since when the US is a good exemple of justice ? Let's keep it a discussion between a player and two team. The main point is, if Stephano would have signed and officially gone to the US with CoL and then would have gone back to Mill, this would have been a very bad move. But Stephano had contracted with CoL since only a few hours : I suppose it's okay to admit that there is a certain time after the signing to retract yourself. and your pro France bullshit is not a bit better than the pro USA bullshit. fuck off nations, this shouldn't be part of e-sports - but appearently the Millenium guys have a different opinion on that. I hope they really have to pay lots of money for the crap they created | ||
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exShikari
Australia237 Posts
On September 21 2011 20:34 Tofugrinder wrote: and your pro France bullshit is not a bit better than the pro USA bullshit. fuck off nations, this shouldn't be part of e-sports - but appearently the Millenium guys have a different opinion on that. I hope they really have to pay lots of money for the crap they created Everyone needs to keeps nationalism out of business dealings. Every other industry seems to do so quite well. Millenium acted completely unprofessionally and this just proves why we needs a governing body, so if a team causes shit like this in the future they will face sanctions. | ||
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Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
On September 21 2011 20:20 ShadowBumble wrote: There is no grace period in a contract, otherwise it won't be a contract but an agreement. ( Which by law are 2 different things )Though this is true, in a Dutch court this would be very hard to uphold, although I must admit I'm not very at home in pro-sports contracts. Nevertheless, the thing to keep in mind in European law is that we do not practise slavery. The situation could be considered as Stephano cancelling his contract before the contract starts, and clearly not as the continuation of a previous contract - I don't recall a single lawsuit in that context that resulted in the employee being forced to work the 1-3 months cancelation period. Quickly going into your other comment; “People should be careful when yelling that this will hurt eSports, since we all know ( at least i hope ) that it will (…)” I honestly think this benefits e-sports. It shows to the entire world e-sports have grown beyond the kids & games image. We’re starting to have the same issues other sports already experience – contractual drama is daily business in professional football. Obviously it’s not the prettiest side, but with e-sports growing these situations are inevitable and a clear symptom of the rapid evolution we’re going through. Anyway, best of luck to both coL and Millenium whatever will happen, but I'd suggest to let the topic rest. | ||
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