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On December 23 2012 13:42 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 13:36 Z-BosoN wrote:
Yea I grabbed a snack. Hang in there.
I'd like to know more of your town read on Djo. Is it still that day one stuff and his activity when being pressured? For two reasons: 1) His actions aren't coherent with a mafia "strategy." VE bussed Adam. Scum should have known that Adam was going down. Yet Djo goes and tries to last-minute voteswitch on both tunkeg and jay at the lynch deadline... I can't see the scum-mentality in that, especially since the mafia QT should have been on "BUS ALERT!" 2) His activity when pressured was absurd. He was bombing cases left and right. Such an insane amount of effort in scumhunting that I can only attribute to a townie.
1) Well, Djo has been around enough to work out how you and marv think. I tried the same thing in CT, where I went with sandro all the way trying to convince people, etc. then didn't really want to bus him in favor of another scum (Toad)
2) An engaged scum djo is perfectly capable of this, imo
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On December 23 2012 13:49 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 13:42 Hapahauli wrote:On December 23 2012 13:36 Z-BosoN wrote:
Yea I grabbed a snack. Hang in there.
I'd like to know more of your town read on Djo. Is it still that day one stuff and his activity when being pressured? For two reasons: 1) His actions aren't coherent with a mafia "strategy." VE bussed Adam. Scum should have known that Adam was going down. Yet Djo goes and tries to last-minute voteswitch on both tunkeg and jay at the lynch deadline... I can't see the scum-mentality in that, especially since the mafia QT should have been on "BUS ALERT!" 2) His activity when pressured was absurd. He was bombing cases left and right. Such an insane amount of effort in scumhunting that I can only attribute to a townie. 1) Well, Djo has been around enough to work out how you and marv think. I tried the same thing in CT, where I went with sandro all the way trying to convince people, etc. then didn't really want to bus him in favor of another scum (Toad) 2) An engaged scum djo is perfectly capable of this, imo
I feel that the game mechanics in CT made your "strategy" (bussing toad over sandro) quite normal in retrospect (Toad's abilities in particular). CT seemed more of a special case. I can't find a similar strategy here, especially when the deviation from the normal strategy would make you look TERRRIBLE.
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On December 23 2012 13:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Muze with me on Djo a bit. You were playing with him in Mario Mini - you see any similarities/differences to that? He seems to me like 10000x more concerned with scumhunting in this game.
Well he spent a fuckton of time set up speculating, and was fairly active with a 14-page filter.
But yea, he seemed to give much less a shit in that game than in this one if he were scum. Either he adapted his gameplay, or he really is townie
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On December 23 2012 13:55 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 13:49 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 23 2012 13:42 Hapahauli wrote:On December 23 2012 13:36 Z-BosoN wrote:
Yea I grabbed a snack. Hang in there.
I'd like to know more of your town read on Djo. Is it still that day one stuff and his activity when being pressured? For two reasons: 1) His actions aren't coherent with a mafia "strategy." VE bussed Adam. Scum should have known that Adam was going down. Yet Djo goes and tries to last-minute voteswitch on both tunkeg and jay at the lynch deadline... I can't see the scum-mentality in that, especially since the mafia QT should have been on "BUS ALERT!" 2) His activity when pressured was absurd. He was bombing cases left and right. Such an insane amount of effort in scumhunting that I can only attribute to a townie. 1) Well, Djo has been around enough to work out how you and marv think. I tried the same thing in CT, where I went with sandro all the way trying to convince people, etc. then didn't really want to bus him in favor of another scum (Toad) 2) An engaged scum djo is perfectly capable of this, imo I feel that the game mechanics in CT made your "strategy" (bussing toad over sandro) quite normal in retrospect (Toad's abilities in particular). CT seemed more of a special case. I can't find a similar strategy here, especially when the deviation from the normal strategy would make you look TERRRIBLE.
Well, for scum Djo, all three of his buddies were already bussing. Maybe he felt his bus wouldn't be able to feel natural during his previous posts (which pretty much defended adam from debears), and decided to stick with his momentum. I'm not confident that's enough to warrant a complete town read.
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Looking at grush, I really can't see anything in his posts. I didn't see the big difference in his filter marv announced earlier, not even after running around my house naked three times.
Djo is now a town read for him, despite him wanting to kill Djo badly earlier on.
VE also manifested a town to scum transition in his filter.
And he seriously thinks we are a scum team.
I really can't make any of his posts.
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On December 23 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 13:55 Hapahauli wrote:On December 23 2012 13:49 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 23 2012 13:42 Hapahauli wrote:On December 23 2012 13:36 Z-BosoN wrote:
Yea I grabbed a snack. Hang in there.
I'd like to know more of your town read on Djo. Is it still that day one stuff and his activity when being pressured? For two reasons: 1) His actions aren't coherent with a mafia "strategy." VE bussed Adam. Scum should have known that Adam was going down. Yet Djo goes and tries to last-minute voteswitch on both tunkeg and jay at the lynch deadline... I can't see the scum-mentality in that, especially since the mafia QT should have been on "BUS ALERT!" 2) His activity when pressured was absurd. He was bombing cases left and right. Such an insane amount of effort in scumhunting that I can only attribute to a townie. 1) Well, Djo has been around enough to work out how you and marv think. I tried the same thing in CT, where I went with sandro all the way trying to convince people, etc. then didn't really want to bus him in favor of another scum (Toad) 2) An engaged scum djo is perfectly capable of this, imo I feel that the game mechanics in CT made your "strategy" (bussing toad over sandro) quite normal in retrospect (Toad's abilities in particular). CT seemed more of a special case. I can't find a similar strategy here, especially when the deviation from the normal strategy would make you look TERRRIBLE. Well, for scum Djo, all three of his buddies were already bussing. Maybe he felt his bus wouldn't be able to feel natural during his previous posts (which pretty much defended adam from debears), and decided to stick with his momentum. I'm not confident that's enough to warrant a complete town read.
He seemed to have Adam as slightly scum all D1. I don't think it would have looked bad at all for him to vote Adam.
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Looking at this post, he sets himself up for both options:
On December 12 2012 08:12 Djodref wrote:I'll vote Adam if I need to but I really don't think it's the best lynch for today... I've seen successful late (like 5 min before deadline) counter bangwagon in Mario Mini Mafia so it's never too late 
So for him it's either look suspicious for an useless bus vote, or look like dumb townie for trying to sway the vote to a mislynch, if he's scum.
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On December 23 2012 14:06 Z-BosoN wrote:
Looking at grush, I really can't see anything in his posts. I didn't see the big difference in his filter marv announced earlier, not even after running around my house naked three times.
Djo is now a town read for him, despite him wanting to kill Djo badly earlier on.
VE also manifested a town to scum transition in his filter.
And he seriously thinks we are a scum team.
I really can't make any of his posts.
I mean on the one hand, Grush seems different personality wise from his scumgames. Unfortunately I can say this about everyone here.
So beyond personality, his play individually seems scummy.
There was that post I pointed out earlier, which was borderline prophetic of people's alignments. Certainly a far cry from his gameplay in LVII.
Regarding his vote on Djo, he's super-convinced that he wants to vote Djo:
On December 18 2012 11:07 grush57 wrote:
Oh wow, goodjob guys. :D
DJO NEXT? ;D
Then in 10 minutes, decides that Djo is town:
On December 18 2012 11:17 grush57 wrote:
Honestly you have been pretty towny lately.
Jay or Hapa plox.
He seems to reverse himself pretty quickly, and all of a sudden comes up with good reasons why Djo is town:
On December 18 2012 11:31 grush57 wrote:
I was obsessed with djo but then I questioned myself why djo is scum.
On December 18 2012 12:02 grush57 wrote:
He has been scumhunting lately and made a case on VE pretty early on.
There's more in there as well. Like he's really wants to lynch Djo until I coax him into voting VE, with which he immediately complies. He does something similar with the Tunkeg lynch, where he votes Tunkeg because "the bandwagon can't be stopped"
On December 15 2012 05:50 grush57 wrote:
So I assume he is posting bm to save himself? Or he knows he is going to die. I wouldn't consider this making him definite scum but the wagon is probably not going to stop.
I still think that we should be lynching djordef but whatever.
##Unvote
##Vote: Tunkeg
I know it's a case on GRush and whatnot, but it does seem like he's scum. He does seem to be behaving a lot like a "cooperative mafia" with his play.
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On December 23 2012 14:12 Z-BosoN wrote:Looking at this post, he sets himself up for both options: Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:12 Djodref wrote:I'll vote Adam if I need to but I really don't think it's the best lynch for today... I've seen successful late (like 5 min before deadline) counter bangwagon in Mario Mini Mafia so it's never too late So for him it's either look suspicious for an useless bus vote, or look like dumb townie for trying to sway the vote to a mislynch, if he's scum.
Oh that quote is really interesting. See one of my reads about Djo is that he's someone who overreacts to things he's seen be successful. So he's really obsessed with blue-speculation because he caught a scum-team member like that in one of his newbie games. I feel the "last minute bandwagon" thing is similar - he saw one be successful in Mario Mini, wasn't very satisfied with the lynch, and wanted to emulate a similar success.
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On December 23 2012 14:14 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 14:06 Z-BosoN wrote:
Looking at grush, I really can't see anything in his posts. I didn't see the big difference in his filter marv announced earlier, not even after running around my house naked three times.
Djo is now a town read for him, despite him wanting to kill Djo badly earlier on.
VE also manifested a town to scum transition in his filter.
And he seriously thinks we are a scum team.
I really can't make any of his posts. I mean on the one hand, Grush seems different personality wise from his scumgames. Unfortunately I can say this about everyone here. So beyond personality, his play individually seems scummy. There was that post I pointed out earlier, which was borderline prophetic of people's alignments. Certainly a far cry from his gameplay in LVII. Regarding his vote on Djo, he's super-convinced that he wants to vote Djo: Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 11:07 grush57 wrote:
Oh wow, goodjob guys. :D
DJO NEXT? ;D Then in 10 minutes, decides that Djo is town: Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 11:17 grush57 wrote:
Honestly you have been pretty towny lately.
Jay or Hapa plox. He seems to reverse himself pretty quickly, and all of a sudden comes up with good reasons why Djo is town: Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 11:31 grush57 wrote:
I was obsessed with djo but then I questioned myself why djo is scum. Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 12:02 grush57 wrote:
He has been scumhunting lately and made a case on VE pretty early on.
There's more in there as well. Like he's really wants to lynch Djo until I coax him into voting VE, with which he immediately complies. He does something similar with the Tunkeg lynch, where he votes Tunkeg because "the bandwagon can't be stopped" Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:50 grush57 wrote:
So I assume he is posting bm to save himself? Or he knows he is going to die. I wouldn't consider this making him definite scum but the wagon is probably not going to stop.
I still think that we should be lynching djordef but whatever.
##Unvote
##Vote: Tunkeg
I know it's a case on GRush and whatnot, but it does seem like he's scum. He does seem to be behaving a lot like a "cooperative mafia" with his play.
Oh, you coaxed him into voting VE? I hadn't seen that earlier. I thought he had decided that on his own
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So can I get your thoughts on all of this Z-Bo? On Grush... or hell even myself (hopefully our little conversation has convinced you some of my innocence)
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Oh, and ##Unvote because I'll probably need to sleep on the decision.
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As I am going through grush's filter, I see a lot of indifference. I especially hated his post over here:
On December 22 2012 04:30 grush57 wrote:
Sigh, I don't know who to lynch now.
But shows opinion when faced with a potential mislynch:
On December 21 2012 05:35 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 12:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 20 2012 05:26 grush57 wrote:
It's definitely in the three of Z-Bo Jay and Hapa.
I'm fine with all, but I'm more sure of a Jay and Hapa scumteam. Why do you think BL is town? Because Palmar said so. But him getting away with zero effort because of his meta and how he always gets lynched is making me mad.
Which is also kinda ironic considering the effort grush puts in.
Concerning you, I still think you are scum  .
I went very carefully through your filter today, I felt very solid on my read of you.
If you really are town, though, keep doing what you are doing. Tbh, I don't see why you as scum would insist on placing Djo as town and limiting your own bullshitting with me pressuring the opposite. Buuuut, you are a capable player so I'm skeptical. I will consider you being town and see how much marv+grush makes more sense to me than marv and you.
Now, I'm heading over to california tomorrow, and I'm not sure I'll have an internet connection when I get there. So tomorrow morning I will likely place my vote after sleeping on it, but its likely I'll have a connection and will be able to change it.
Gnight dude
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Yeah unfortunately I don't have much of an opportunity to "keep doing what I'm doing", since I'll be travelling most of tomorrow. Anyway, I'll give some thoughts tomorrow morning, and hopefully I'll be around a few hours before the lynch to argue myself out of things.
Honestly I doubt I can talk my way out of a mislynch, but I have only myself to blame for my lazy/shitty play. Oh well. Hopefully I can find the last two scum for pride-sake.
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Well I tried looking through Djo's filter, and nothing in his filter changed my mind about his alignment.
Anyway, I'm off to bed, and I'll hopefully see y'all a couple of hours before the deadline. A last bit in my defense, I'd like to refer you to a quote from syllogism on suspicion and LYLO situations:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=60#1195
On July 30 2012 08:16 syllogism wrote:
For future reference if someone is getting lynched in a lylo with no resistance at all, you probably aren't on the right track
This is from Newbie XXI, where I (as mafia) led a lynch on a townie at LYLO with zero resistance from the townsfolk.
This game is shaping up to be the exact same way. I've had suspicion piled on me without any resistance whatsoever for the last two cycles. If you all think that there was no mafia intervention in this, the game is sadly lost.
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HOLD THE FUCK ON A MINUTE.
Marv is scum.
On December 22 2012 20:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 12:57 Z-BosoN wrote:
Tomorrow is my last day on a computer, so yea be active dudes :D
I hope to find scum until then with a winning post of GG.
Marv is someone that needs to be looked at today.
I'll be back this evening to play properly (grmbl christmas shopping). Bluelightz's modkill is amazing for us. Given I'm alive at LYLO (??) I'll give my best interpretation for why. I am another Veteran. I didn't crumb because I thought it would be obvious when I got shot. I am assuming however that the mafia must have a Rolecop and investigated me at some stage - so double stacking me at any point in the last few days would mean that mafia would have needed an extra mislynch to win the game. Bluelightz's flip inherently makes me more suspicious of Z-Boson and Djodref. grush... I still think is town. Certainly it seems at least one of the scummers has been playing very well despite the collapse of his team otherwise.
Marv claimed veteran. He's the 4th blue claim. The chances that there are 5 blues in this setup balance wise are... not very high. Yet marv's post regarding VE:
On December 18 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Bo has gone according to his last post, i assume he's referring to what i pasted here.
i fucking hate this. none of his play is townie, but i hate lynching uncounterclaimed DTs.
djfnsdk
I think we have to lynch him and hope he doesn't flip DT or we feel very stupid
If marv is the veteran, he shouldn't show the slightest bit of doubt lynching VE here. VE would be the 5th blue claim in a 16 man game.
##Vote Marvellosity
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...and with that I can go to bed with sweet dreams. Night folks!
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So, right now, it looks like Hapa and Z-Bo are really trying to get things right. So I'm getting hesitant to lynch Hapa.
We don't know so much about the setup, but I would be very surprised if marv would believe that 5 blues was balanced.
The fact that there is no breacrumb doesn't speak in marv favor.
@ marv
Is there anything in your filter which could show that you were having a "veteran" mentality ?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 23 2012 16:36 Hapahauli wrote:HOLD THE FUCK ON A MINUTE. Marv is scum.Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 20:49 marvellosity wrote:On December 22 2012 12:57 Z-BosoN wrote:
Tomorrow is my last day on a computer, so yea be active dudes :D
I hope to find scum until then with a winning post of GG.
Marv is someone that needs to be looked at today.
I'll be back this evening to play properly (grmbl christmas shopping). Bluelightz's modkill is amazing for us. Given I'm alive at LYLO (??) I'll give my best interpretation for why. I am another Veteran. I didn't crumb because I thought it would be obvious when I got shot. I am assuming however that the mafia must have a Rolecop and investigated me at some stage - so double stacking me at any point in the last few days would mean that mafia would have needed an extra mislynch to win the game. Bluelightz's flip inherently makes me more suspicious of Z-Boson and Djodref. grush... I still think is town. Certainly it seems at least one of the scummers has been playing very well despite the collapse of his team otherwise. Marv claimed veteran. He's the 4th blue claim. The chances that there are 5 blues in this setup balance wise are... not very high. Yet marv's post regarding VE: Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Bo has gone according to his last post, i assume he's referring to what i pasted here.
i fucking hate this. none of his play is townie, but i hate lynching uncounterclaimed DTs.
djfnsdk
I think we have to lynch him and hope he doesn't flip DT or we feel very stupid If marv is the veteran, he shouldn't show the slightest bit of doubt lynching VE here. VE would be the 5th blue claim in a 16 man game. ##Vote Marvellosity
You do realise bugs' game had 5 or 6 blues in a 13 man game with 3 scum, right? We could have a gf/vigi/goon/rolecop setup, or whatever.
I'm pretty sure I made a post earlier where I said anything between about 2-6 blues could be balanced depending on scum roles.
I had no real reason to disclose my role earlier in the day, I wasn't under any particular amount of suspicion and I didn't need to make a play to 'save myself'. The simple fact is that it's lylo and I went for full disclosure.
Djodref: what do you expect out of a veteran mentality? I'm motherfucking marvellosity. I post a shit-tonne, I help lynch scum on day 1, what more do I have to do to get shot? Historically I rarely crumb my roles; I did so in Rock Band because I felt insecure in my position near the start, but in games like LI or Dwarf Fortress I didn't breadcrumb my tracker role, I've never crumbed my vigi roles (again, because it would be obvious, like it should have been with my vet role).
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EPT
