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On January 10 2012 08:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ive said it before. At tourney level, the jungle decides the game. The single most important aspect of a game between even teams is who has jungle control.
Given that no one is feeding, whichever jungle controls the map better WILL win the game. Drag and buffs are just too strong early game.
The jungler alone doesn't establish map control, it takes a whole team. I always recognize a huge difference when I play with TL B because everyone frequently wards. When an enemy jungler can't leave their jungle without being immediately spotted it often becomes trivial to track and counter them. It also becomes difficult for the enemy team to ward without being spotted, which informs the jungler as to how they should gank.
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On January 10 2012 08:47 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 08:41 Shikyo wrote:On January 10 2012 08:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ive said it before. At tourney level, the jungle decides the game. The single most important aspect of a game between even teams is who has jungle control.
Given that no one is feeding, whichever jungle controls the map better WILL win the game. Drag and buffs are just too strong early game. I really think that riot should do something about lane opponents being impossible to kill if they play decently, I believe that the game would greatly benefit from tower damage being significantly reduced or the range lowered They cant. If they changed shit to where you could just kill someone without them making a mistake, EVERYONE would complain. Remember the bitching when LB was just released? Now imagine that only across the board.
Not to mention with lowering turret damage a lot of champs would be really weak and a whole lot of others champs would get real strong. Denying someone xp is as good enough for the game imo, don't need no bs dives by strong earlygame champs.
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volibear lvl 1 real strong turret diver 
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United States47024 Posts
On January 10 2012 08:47 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 08:41 Shikyo wrote:On January 10 2012 08:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ive said it before. At tourney level, the jungle decides the game. The single most important aspect of a game between even teams is who has jungle control.
Given that no one is feeding, whichever jungle controls the map better WILL win the game. Drag and buffs are just too strong early game. I really think that riot should do something about lane opponents being impossible to kill if they play decently, I believe that the game would greatly benefit from tower damage being significantly reduced or the range lowered They cant. If they changed shit to where you could just kill someone without them making a mistake, EVERYONE would complain. Remember the bitching when LB was just released? Now imagine that only across the board.
That's one extreme.
The thing is right now, you have to make a pretty damn huge mistake for it to actually get you killed. You can make smaller mistakes more punishing without making it so that people can die without making a mistake.
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On January 10 2012 08:55 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 08:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 10 2012 08:41 Shikyo wrote:On January 10 2012 08:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ive said it before. At tourney level, the jungle decides the game. The single most important aspect of a game between even teams is who has jungle control.
Given that no one is feeding, whichever jungle controls the map better WILL win the game. Drag and buffs are just too strong early game. I really think that riot should do something about lane opponents being impossible to kill if they play decently, I believe that the game would greatly benefit from tower damage being significantly reduced or the range lowered They cant. If they changed shit to where you could just kill someone without them making a mistake, EVERYONE would complain. Remember the bitching when LB was just released? Now imagine that only across the board. That's one extreme. The thing is right now, you have to make a pretty damn huge mistake for it to actually get you killed. You can make smaller mistakes more punishing without making it so that people can die without making a mistake.
It was called red buff. They nerfed it.
It was called mana regen. They nerfed it.
It was annie, malz, leblanc burst. They nerfed it.
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lol, wtf
i see rain man fail in jungle as eve and have to go back when trying to kill blue
i see him die in a gank
i see him with only wriggles and ninja tabi at 18 minutes
i see him sell ninja tabi for boots of mobility cuz he thinks it's better
at this point, I'm thinking yep Eve is shit, I wasn't bad because I fed as her, it's just the champion
then suddenly I look back and he's owning bads -_-
why can't I do it! T_T I'm good enough to clear stuff without getting owned by camps
EDIT: GG nvm his team is terrible, and the enemy teemo is a beast
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Oddone jungle instincts too strong XD Plays sona support, keeps clearing jungle
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On January 10 2012 08:41 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 08:21 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ive said it before. At tourney level, the jungle decides the game. The single most important aspect of a game between even teams is who has jungle control.
Given that no one is feeding, whichever jungle controls the map better WILL win the game. Drag and buffs are just too strong early game. I really think that riot should do something about lane opponents being impossible to kill if they play decently, I believe that the game would greatly benefit from tower damage being significantly reduced or the range lowered
preaching this since i started playing lol. it is the biggest reason for early game passivity. the sheer amount of safety the turrets give at the early levels makes the game pretty onedimensional until around lvl 6+
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Hmm I just ran a little test run in custom, where I had both Skarner and Trundle jungle trough blue-wraiths-golems-red to see how their times compared, Skarner with a 9-21-0 Mastery setup, Trundle with 21-9-0, both with ASpeed pages (and some arpen). Surprisingly (at least to me) they took exactly the same time; 3.27. Obviously this is not a conclusive or completely realistic test but it surprised me Trundle kept up so well, and another thing to say is that he was basically full hp troughout the run (Trund running VampScept, Skarner Regrowth+pot). I really need to play the cute little troll more! (I'm just hoping for a Muppet-Animal-Drummer-Pentakill-Trundle).
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On January 09 2012 20:13 Alaric wrote:
Malphite vs Rumble? Isn't it a bad matchup for Malph?
i ran AP Malphite one game and destroyed the rumble o_o..
i built him like Empire, some ap at the start -> tankiness later on.
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I personally run Trundle 0-21-9, so that may impact the clears speed.
Also, Viktor really badly owned by Irelia. Can't do anything significant early, so gets destroyed after 6, with tower dives and shit.
Also, the fact both his stun and ult immediatly stop if he dies really bites him hard.
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I have made a blog post here questioning the current schematics of this subform. I believe that the layout as it exists now is quite dysfunctional and could be improved. I am, however, interested in knowing the advantages of keeping this method of forum organization (not really organized, but you can read my arguments in the blog). The simple fact I need to make a blog to organize thoughts on a subject in itself provides evidence to my discussion.
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On January 10 2012 09:53 rizzla wrote:I have made a blog post here questioning the current schematics of this subform. I believe that the layout as it exists now is quite dysfunctional and could be improved. I am, however, interested in knowing the advantages of keeping this method of forum organization (not really organized, but you can read my arguments in the blog). The simple fact I need to make a blog to organize thoughts on a subject in itself provides evidence to my discussion.
So would you prefer new threads to be created for every topic? Personally I find it just as hard to find a thread that's been buried as it is to locate a chunk of discussion in general discussion. Either way it comes down to using the search function. I do wish there was a champion thread for every champion though, even with a minimal OP, since it means that discussion about specific matchups and stuff can be archived there instead of in general discussion.
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On January 10 2012 09:53 rizzla wrote:I have made a blog post here questioning the current schematics of this subform. I believe that the layout as it exists now is quite dysfunctional and could be improved. I am, however, interested in knowing the advantages of keeping this method of forum organization (not really organized, but you can read my arguments in the blog). The simple fact I need to make a blog to organize thoughts on a subject in itself provides evidence to my discussion.
Since Neo is away for a bit, I'll just pop in my understanding how how it works.
- Champion Guides are in the their own respective threads and must follow subforum guidelines. Specifically, this template should be used. This arrangement I think we're all fine with.
- We have a big streams collection stickied at the top. This collates all LoL Streams of everyone from TL who streams LoL. However, several noteworthy people tend to enjoy having their own personal thread if anyone wants to discuss their stream there or ask the streamer question. It also allows them to bump the thread to let people know they're streaming. These threads are not in the general streams subforum because they are LoL specific and this is an SC site. I see nothing wrong with this arrangement as it's nice to know when certain people are streaming (e.g. Smash, Loci, Lexvink, etc.) and they're all pretty notable members of the community.
- Many things may be "newsworthy" but not really worth their own thread. Things like team drama, teams having scrims, etc. These tend to be only relevant when it happens and not important after a few hours. These are fine in the General Discussion Thread because if we had a new thread every time something happened, this place would explode.
- Funny videos and stuff has its own thread to not clutter up space. Again, self-explanatory.
- The QQ Thread is for people to vent their QQ rage to not clutter up General DIscussion. Again, this requires no further explanation.
- Tournaments get their own thread each because it lets people discuss them specificity there. Generally larger tournaments (IEM, etc.) get more traffic, and I try to make banners and graphics for them if I have time.
- Any note worthy discussion that is a little too big for the General Discussion Thread (e.g. the new masteries, Dominion Meta, etc.) can have its own thread. If it eventually dies off, then so be it. There's a search function for a reason if you need it.
- The General Discussion Thread is a legacy from when we didn't have our own sub-forum and only had a thread in Sports & Games Subforum. It's a one-stop shop for any general discussion needs (haha) and a quick place for new faces or even established members to ask quick questions, discuss patches or for certain people to leak special info like new skins+their prices, patch leaks, etc. It moves fast, but generally you don't miss too much. We feel that many things don't deserve their own thread the same way Reddit may spam all over the place. If teams are scrimming, we just announce or chat about it here. Maybe we could do with a Scrim Thread? Dunno. But beyond that I can't think of what else we might be missing. Chatting about official streams like SaintV? It's just easier to chat about ridonkulous stuff here since it'd be out of date in 2 hours. We don't need threads on every topic all over the place. I can find what I'm looking for quite quickly here in the subforum. Use the search tool; it's really useful.
- The Tech Thread does what it does and was made so people who had tech queries had somewhere to go instead of floundering in General Discussion and hoping for help.
I think that covers it all.
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Essentially the logic behind my thinking is for people (including myself) who have a lack of.. interest. It is all about the user becoming interested. You don't go onto a forum thinking "what can I search this time that is interesting?" I am more inclined to find something and become involved when there is a list of topics for me to look at as opposed to filtering through 138 pages of information to try and find something interesting. I may not be interested in a discussion from pages 5-9, but I would have to sift through all of that information to get to something that might spark my interest. Additionally, conversations can become hard to follow when everything is funneled through one small pipe. Just glancing at the first several pages I can see multiple conversations going on at one time which is distracting and can be frustrating. I don't want to have to search for something interesting. I want to look at the list of topics, find something interesting, and read it.
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On January 10 2012 10:15 rizzla wrote:
Essentially the logic behind my thinking is for people (including myself) who have a lack of.. interest. It is all about the user becoming interested. You don't go onto a forum thinking "what can I search this time that is interesting?" I am more inclined to find something and become involved when there is a list of topics for me to look at as opposed to filtering through 138 pages of information to try and find something interesting. I may not be interested in a discussion from pages 5-9, but I would have to sift through all of that information to get to something that might spark my interest. I don't want to have to search for something interesting. I want to look at the list of topics, find something interesting, and read it.
Mmm. Well, if something's already been talked about a few pages ago and we're not talking about it anymore, then there's probably nothing left to say. A lot of the stuff here in General Discussion is generally highly topical at that point in time, and then quickly isn't relevant. Scrim discussion is probably the most obvious example of this.
In the case of meta discussion, this isn't so simple. Sure, we could have threads for particular meta chat. The problem is... We'd probably explode in threads. We throw around stuff so often and then decide to drop it as soon as something else catches out eye. We're kind of like a cat that keeps chasing after the next shiny thing that moves lol. Sure, things get buried as a result. But at the same time, it does mean that the forum is cleaner as a result. A lot of us are also just used to having one big thread where all sorts of miscellaneous things are lumped together instead of loads of tiny threads. And tbh, you'd probably spend just as much time thread 10 one-pages threads as 1 ten-page thread. If you really want to, you can skip 3 pages at a time or something and skim read General Discussion if you want to catch up. Chances are, if it only took a page or less in discussion, it probably wasn't important anyway.
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On January 10 2012 10:15 rizzla wrote:
Essentially the logic behind my thinking is for people (including myself) who have a lack of.. interest. It is all about the user becoming interested. You don't go onto a forum thinking "what can I search this time that is interesting?" I am more inclined to find something and become involved when there is a list of topics for me to look at as opposed to filtering through 138 pages of information to try and find something interesting. I may not be interested in a discussion from pages 5-9, but I would have to sift through all of that information to get to something that might spark my interest. Additionally, conversations can become hard to follow when everything is funneled through one small pipe. Just glancing at the first several pages I can see multiple conversations going on at one time which is distracting and can be frustrating. I don't want to have to search for something interesting. I want to look at the list of topics, find something interesting, and read it.
well, I find that if you are not interested in the topic on discussion at the moment it will soon turn. I almost feel like we have LoL TV going on here, you tune in and see what's going on and if it's not interesting you can start up a new topic or wait for the show to end.
Almost all of the things being discussed here are worthy of having discussion about but only a small fraction are really worthy of their own threads I think. If we had threads for every topic we'd either have a lot less discussion, or way too many threads.
The big disadvantage I do see to this structure is that there's no way to organize or refer back to past discussions. If you want to know the chinese art of playing smiteless jungle yi you will need to ask because there is no way to go back and find it. it's also pretty ugly when discussions repeat themselves like anything brought up by the phrase diminishing returns.
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The problem with having many threads is that most of them would have only a few posts (I really don't think TL subforum has enough traffic to keep many active threads going for an extended amount of time) as they would lose relevance quickly.
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I think the main thing is what some have already brought up- this really isnt a thread in the typical TL sense. Its more of a whats going on today- all that ever really ends up being relevant is the last 5 pages of the GD.
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EPT
