EPTTL Mafia XXXVI - Page 117
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Eti307
Canada3442 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
The roleblock thing I was hoping cube would claim but beneather claiming it was a kinda set back and a blessing. If mods didnt say publicly in the thread that LD got a late PM of something and cube claimed it, I would have argued to high heaven to get LD lynched, and then we still would have had 2 KP. Dont think I could have gotten LD lynched? I got you to lynch RoL, didn't I? yeah  But really I should stop trying to be too pro-active as mafia, it never helps us... but it's more fun. I simply did the plan, because I didn't want to win by doing nothing. Even if it's why we lost, i don't really regret it, it was more exciting then sitting their watching town go at each other's throat over clues while idly defending myself from kav. Kav was the MVP by far. No one on town came close, and without him, we would still be in the game, everyone would have though me a DT still and I think it would be lylo. | ||
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 11 2011 12:11 GMarshal wrote: We should ask Foolishness to do a post game post as he said he was following the game, and I'd be interested in hearing his thoughts *pokes Foolishness* Please? I don't really have much to say other than the obvious. Town paid waaaayyy to much attention to clues. This was to be expected since for almost everyone it was their first clue game, but until the fiasco town's lynches were solely based off of bad clues yeah? It got said many times through the game to use behavior analysis to decide who's mafia and then back it up with clues....yet nobody did that. Divinek was one of my top suspects from day 1 because I looked at TL mafia XXX where he was town and his attitude was drastically different from this game (I looked at that one specifically because we worked together as a town in that game). I thought that bum's plan was perfectly sound, the execution was just bad. One of the reasons was because your posts before the claim did not really indicate you could have been blue. I don't know if you were planning to claim from day 1 or if you claimed on a whim though. The big issue with the claim was that the timing was bad. When you claimed, the town was getting rocked hard by mafia. Why would a DT claim if he hasn't found any mafia yet? Yeah sure SK is a threat but at the time knowing the SK was clearly not top priority for the town as they had to figure out a mafia fast. That was strange. Some of the mason adds were strange I thought. Gmarshal took a hit night 2 and he never got added to the circle. If you guys were using the circle to figure out mafia and pressure people, then I understand. However it seems simpler to get a group of confirmed people to pass information around and grow the list of confirmed townies. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On February 11 2011 14:15 bumatlarge wrote: But really I should stop trying to be too pro-active as mafia, it never helps us... but it's more fun. I simply did the plan, because I didn't want to win by doing nothing. Even if it's why we lost, i don't really regret it, it was more exciting then sitting their watching town go at each other's throat over clues while idly defending myself from kav. . yeah if you cant play for fun then why play at all bro dog. Also I need to start playing like this more as town so I can cite the games for when I'm lazy as mafia and people like foolishness can't sniff me out | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On February 11 2011 14:15 bumatlarge wrote: Dont think I could have gotten LD lynched? I got you to lynch RoL, didn't I? Oh, absolutely. I wanted it differently, but you'll notice that even when I was sure you were mafia I was starting to go along with the LD lynch. This was because I didn't think that I could convince the town fast enough. So yes, LD would have been lynched, agree. I was saying that I would have gotten you lynched the next day, and beneather the day after that. It's possible that I wouldn't have had the medics stack on GMarshal, so you may have gotten through with a double hit, so that's also a possible outcome. And yes, I fully congratulate you on trying something like that. Takes balls, and I'm happy you tried it, not just because you were caught, but because I dislike the general way of playing mafia that people have adopted. I wish there were a way that mafia could win while being active that's not really hard. On February 11 2011 14:15 bumatlarge wrote: People started to doubt you lol. Yes, that was probably my weakest point, but I think that being able to claim medic, and back that claim up with an actual save would have kept me in the game long enough to get you lynched. THen again, I don't know just how unstable the mayorship is, so...who knows. It was probably a bad idea to defend LD. I should have pushed you instead. (I did eventually, but not off the bat.) Also, sorry to RoL, I learned my lesson on veteran players this game. Not all vets are active. (Not the role) | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On January 23 2011 12:27 Kavdragon wrote: Good citizens of Liquidia! I present to you my campaign for Mayor of this fine town filled with wonderful people! Four score and seven minutes ago our hosts brought forth in this forum a new thread conceived in awesomeness and dedicated to the proposition that all men should post a lot. Now we are engaged in a great Mafia game testing whether this thread, or any thread so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on this great posting-field, TL Mafia, in honor of previous games. I have come to dedicate a portion of this thread as a mostly final resting-place for those who here were active that that their game might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, posting and dead, who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The TL Mafia forum will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this thread under Node and LSB shall have a new birth of activity, and that my mayor-ship of the active, by the active, for the active shall not perish from the thread. But now we must move onward. With the memory of these invaluable players emblazoned in our minds, who will lead us to that play that glorious and active game? I humbly submit myself to the public office, willing to serve a thread, of the actives, by the actives, and for the actives. Under my leadership, the attacks of the enemy will be rebuffed, the confusion sown by the mafia will be silenced! Inactivity banished, and analysis rewarded! I stand for a town, united in activity and lynches for all scum! So come to my banner fellow Liquidians, let us run a race that in all likelihood will likely be quickly forgotten, but awesome none the less! Vote for activity! Vote for Scumhunting! Vote for Victory! Vote for KAV! Be convinced, if not by my words, then by the words of those who came before me. If not by words than by the lol worthy pictures I created for the occasion. If not by pictures, then by the epic music I wrote for a completely different occasion, but which I'm still shamelessly trying to use to further my campaign! + Show Spoiler [Text Endorsements] + On August 9 1974 11:63 VER wrote: Kav's the One. Kav for mayor. On January 20 1961 11:63 Node wrote: I Like Kav. Vote for Kav. On January 22 2011 11:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm Meapak_Ziphh and I approve this message. On January 22 2011 11:26 SiNiquity wrote: I'm SiNiquity and I approve this message. On January 21 2011 08:42 LSB wrote: KAV 4 MAYOR! I'll make you a mspaint poster!!!! + Show Spoiler [Pictorial Endorsements] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rYprY.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uPQtV.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xP1gN.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xk6JX.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CzzTt.jpg) + Show Spoiler [Music] + Vote for Victory! Vote for Kav! + Show Spoiler + (PS, i might be an invincible Vigilante, that can protect anyone, and check two people for their role per night. It'd suck to pass up that awesome role in the mayor seat.) Первым человеком, решить мою головоломка в этой кампании будет получить мое восхищение. --отец КавДракона I left a bread crumb trail for those who were good at clues. I figured the mafia would be too lazy with searching for clues to look into it, but turns out no townies figured it out either. All of the pictures I used for my campaign are borrowed and edited from TF2 Medic achievements. I'm surprised that no one realized that, but it was funny anyways. I left in a red haring: The date on both Ver, and Node's endorsement was linked to the date of death of a president. Ver corresponded to Nixon's death, and Node to Eisenhower. The endorsement was phrased like the main slogan of their respective campaigns ("I like Ike", and "Nixon's the one") This lead nowhere. The Russian text translates to something like "There are clues here, whoever finds them earns my respect. --Father Kav Dragon." I'd also like to point out that I actually did post that exactly 4 score and 7 (87) minutes into the game. The speech was a modified version of Lincoln's "Gettysburg address", also adding to the presidential red haring. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 11 2011 10:47 Kavdragon wrote: It's about time I joined my faithful BG anyways. GMarshal, you were all I could have asked for in a bodyguard. Except bulletproof. You coulda worked on that aspect. But yes, I too am interested to see what's special about this post. I used to have a vest that could help you with that.... trade you for 3$? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 11 2011 14:15 bumatlarge wrote: See kav you are vastly overestimating town here. The second I posted the DT claim, HALF THE TOWN SAID OH OK GOOD WE HAVE A DT, LETS KILL THE SK. People started to doubt you lol. The roleblock thing I was hoping cube would claim but beneather claiming it was a kinda set back and a blessing. If mods didnt say publicly in the thread that LD got a late PM of something and cube claimed it, I would have argued to high heaven to get LD lynched, and then we still would have had 2 KP. Dont think I could have gotten LD lynched? I got you to lynch RoL, didn't I? yeah [But really I should stop trying to be too pro-active as mafiab, it never helps us... but it's more fun. I simply did the plan, because I didn't want to win by doing nothing. Even if it's why we lost, i don't really regret it, it was more exciting then sitting their watching town go at each other's throat over clues while idly defending myself from kav. Kav was the MVP by far. No one on town came close, and without him, we would still be in the game, everyone would have though me a DT still and I think it would be lylo. ITS A LIE! You have to be a baller mafia player. Look at Merc Mafia! That game was insane :O | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I wanted to start this guide off by showing you guys how you should be analyzing and reading threads. There is a very distinct difference between the two. But before you can learn to analyze a thread you have to know what you are looking for. Thus I engage in what I refer to as Mafia Profiling. Now this varies from game to game and in each set up you should read it and see if you can draw any conclusions from how the generic mafia member will be acting. Now in a lot of more generic settings it might be a bit harder to pinpoint experienced mafia players because they will know what you are looking for and attempt to avoid doing it. The thing is a mafia can never perfectly hide among town, because if they did they would actually be contributing and hurting their own team. With experienced players the key is reading between the lines and figuring out, but this guide is not focused on helping you pick out pro players, its meant to give you a guide to figure out what exactly you should be looking for and what factors mold that. Part 1: Analyzing the rules to develop tells and general mindsets Most games follow a generally accepted set of rules. No clues, flip reveals, standard roles. In those games the tells remain the same. I would generally look for people being aggressive, show signs of tunnel vision, and the bigger tell for me, ignoring arguments and information and a further extreme of that would be misrepresenting other players points of view also known as a Scarecrow argument. Now the important part isn't what the tells are, it is why are those the tells and how did I come up with them? The goal is to think how a mafia will think. If the entire mafia team is quiet and doesn't put themselves out there to lead a lynch, then they are sacrificing their control over the towns direction. Knowing that we can assume at ANY given time there is at LEAST one active mafia member. An example would be in XXXV. Annul was the ONLY active mafia for the first days until he died, and after he died Why/Brocket were forced to become more active. This doesn't mean all the mafia will be active, putting 1-2 players out there at a time gives mafia a good representation and could allow the remaining members to lurk/agree and wagon and push it forward allowing the town to fall into a mob mentality dooming themselves. The next tell I pointed to was tunnel vision. From a mafia perspective tunnel vision is good. It allows you to focus your efforts and your arguments on one person which means you also have less people disagreeing with you, meaning you have more people inclined vote with your opinion because you are accusing less of your potential allies. To explain that, let's say I am mafia. I want to get Qatol lynched and write up an analysis on him. But for good measure I also write something on BC. When I attack BC it makes him trust me less and therefore less likely to vote for Qatol like I want him to. This example may seem a little extreme. A more realistic example would be me pushing Qatol, someone else suggesting BC and me shrugging that off and pushing Qatol as the more obvious/important lynch. The last tell I mentioned can be summed up by what Ace said. Mafia isn't about who/what is right. It's about what you can convince people is right. To go a little old school a great example would be Ace vs. DT claim Folca in Mafia III. Folca had Ace with a DT check, but Ace convinced the town it was bullshit so he managed to off a DT before he died. Serious damage control skills. Now what you might be wondering is what does this have to do with misrepresentation? Or a convenient lapse in literacy? If I was red there could sometimes be certain information I don't want to deal respond to, but I see a weaker point in an argument. I Scarecrow his argument and attack a point he didn't make or attack a much weaker point. In this case, an argument is only as strong as its weakest component, and if you can't find a weak enough component, then fuck it. Make one. The only reason to do this is if you don't believe your case is strong enough to stand on solid facts, which would only really be if you KNEW the person you attacked was not mafia. Part 2: XXXVI, a setup specific analysis. Node and LSB's set up has some awesomely unique properties, clues and no death revealing. The mayor role of Census also adds an awesome element to this. But how does this affect the general mafia modus operandi? It gives them a false sense of security which I predict will lead them to a more aggressive style where they aren't as afraid of town backlash due to no flips. What I think the mafia will focus on is heavy clue analysis with a small dose of behavior analysis for good measure. We can also expect a more active and relentless approach since the mayor is the ONLY person who can possibly know if the lynch worked correctly, and even then there is a delay of 24 hours which might let the mafia wiggle out of the spotlight after a successful mislynch. I would predict extreme tunnel vision, aggression, and a heavier emphasis on clue analyzing when accusing people. Another thing I would look for is any attempt to undermine the mayor and any attempt to get him lynched since I would view that as only benefitting the mafia. Although I would definitely keep an eye on the mayor to try and discern if you believe he is disseminating misinformation, or vying for too much power. Most of the tells I established for this game set I have already went over, IE: Tunneling and aggression. Those will be the same general idea and behavior just to what I believe will be more extreme. I will however go over the newly introduced idea of how they would use and abuse clues, and why. My view on clues is that they are stupid from an in game perspective. At least to use for hunting mafia in the way they are designed. Clues are like the Rorschach inkblot test. Completely subjective to what the maker see of them, and therefore are unreliable. It's like me trying to guess what you thought of when you saw a picture of a Banana. Maybe the host thought of Donkey Kong while I thought of raging erections. The point being that trying to discern how the clues link to player can be trivial at best and is ONLY really useful late game nail in the coffin analysis. IE: This guy lead the lynch on 3 green guys, tunneled hard, plus a monkey has been killing people and his profile picture is a giant fucking dick, which is obviously a banana metaphor, which monkeys eat. EZ'd. While this is all great and interesting the fun part comes from the mafia perspective. When someone is mafia you can't escape the feeling of knowing EXACTLY who is innocent and who is not. Barring an SK of course. So doing behavioral analysis becomes very hard because you can see someone say something that you might perceive as scum normally, but secretly knowing it's not has a mafia second guessing himself constantly when he writes something. Hell, when I write a post I might reread it three times to make sure there are no slip ups or obvious shit that I am forcing myself to pretend is a red read. With clues a mafia member sees a great way to analyze in a WAY more comfortable manner. While a townie will be trying to match clues to players, a mafia will match players to clues. This means that a mafia will stare at someone's profile and see what abstract inferences he can draw to the perceived clues in the day post. This means a lot of the focus of any analysis will generally be on one player which that mafia has distorted their subjective views of the clues to fit this individual. A way to spot this is simple. You read it and you go "How the fuck did they make that connection?" The thing is you might trick yourself into thinking they are just on a whole different level of thinking, but the simpler solution is that they are just red pushing a mislynch in what they think is a convincing townie way, but is in fact.... BULLSHIT! Part 3: Applying our profile to XXXVI players Now for the fun part! We have worked up an analysis and figured out what exactly we expect the mafia to be doing. This should allow us to read posts CRITICALLY. What that means is that you are constantly waiting for the signs you know have to show up eventually. A scum player can only hide his colors for so long. If that means you chill back for a day and wait for them to fuck up then do what you have to do, but vigilance is key. You might miss a couple of minor slips if you are newer to analysis but once you see that post that sets off your scumdar and heart begins to race, don't let it go. Begin reading all that persons posts and see if you spot more of the tells we reasoned should exist. As a warning, there is ALWAYS a chance that the player might be green and just said something stupid. So don't force yourself to see something that isn't there. Analyzing involves an extreme level of self control to know when you are forcing yourself to see something that isn't there, and when the truth has just stared you in the eyes. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
Town MVP: KavDragon. Ballsy to run mayor as medic! Upon seeing the rolelists and actions I'm really impressed with BrownBear as well, he contributed enough not to be suspecious, yet layed low enough not to get targeted by mafia. Also obviously well done by wiggles, but honestly you could have contributed more  I'm pretty damn proud of my scumdar. I got substituted in, and picked out Beneather and Papapanda as suspects from their first posts. I pressured divenek and cubed when I picked up on their posting day 2. I didn't pick up on bum, and I posted a wrong analysis of Kenpachi for like the third game in a row, otherwise spot on. I simply can't seem to read Kenpachi right  GJ mafia killing off some of the important town roles. @Kav, imo I did alot to prove I was town to you, but on the other hand it wasn't really necessary to give me the blue info, so you made the right decission keeping it secret I think. Regarding masons, you made the right decission not to move all scumhunting to PM's and claim to have an all powerful towncircle. I think you used it really well. Your biggest mistake in this game imo, was to argue for vigi's not claiming. At that point I was pretty convinced you where town or SK, but such a scummy plan hit my conviction hard. IMO it caused confusion the day after as well. @Bum: I loved that you had the courage to fake claim, it creates alot of interesting gameplay. It's kind of strange, I've played on this forum for a few months now, but I have yet to see a DT check and get someone lynched. @Node and LSB, thanks for hosting! | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6785 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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Node
United States2159 Posts
Sorry if the formatting is a little funky, these were a collaborative effort (read: whichever host was around added the actions they got). I think this is everything, but feel free to yell at me if something is missing. Night 1: + Show Spoiler + Mafia: CubEdIn -> Godfather -> Fake role: Vanilla townie Divinek -> Roleblocker CubEdIn -> Target Meapak_Ziph Beneather -> Target SiNiquity (veteran, no clue left) Divinek -> Roleblock RebirthOfLeGenD Serial Killer: LunarDestiny -> Target TheAldo Town: DT: Meapak_Ziph -> Nemesis (died) ilovejohn -> Check Amber[LighT] Medic: BrownBear -> protect GMarshal Kavdragon -> protect GMarshal Recruiting Mason: Mr. Wiggles -> Recruit RebirthOfLeGenD Vig: No action Veteran: SiNiquity -> Lose extra night life Night 2: + Show Spoiler + Roleblocker- block Brownbear Beneather hit D3 Papapanda hit GMarshal Lunar Destiny didn’t submit a hit ilovejonn didn’t submit dt check Mr. Wiggles Recruit Kavdragon Kavdragon Protect GMarshal Brownbear Protect Beneather Night 3: + Show Spoiler + Mafia: Beneather -> Target Kitaman Bum -> Target ilovejohn Divinek -> Roleblock LunarDestiny Serial Killer: LunarDestiny -> Target deconduo Mayor: Kavdragon -> census Mafia Town: DT: ilovejohn -> Check divinek Medic: BrownBear -> protect GMarshal Kavdragon -> Gmarshal Recruiting Mason: Mr. Wiggles -> Recruit BrownBear Night 4: + Show Spoiler + LunarDestiny -> kill Beneather Beneather -> kill Coagulation Mr. Wiggles -> recruit Barundar Kavdragon -> check # of mafia Kavdragon -> protect GMarshal BrownBear -> protect Mr. Wiggles Night 5: + Show Spoiler + Kavdragon- Protect GMarshal Kav - check # of medics Brownbear- Protect Mr. Wiggles Cub3- Shoot GMarshal Divinek- Roleblock Kavdragon Mr. Wiggles- Recruit GMarshal Night 6: + Show Spoiler + GAME OVER, MAN! | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On February 11 2011 16:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm an ego maniac so I wanna know why I was killed. Oh and GG town, really well done especially Kav. I kinda wanted you dead because we kept postponing your murder in Harry Potter and because of that, DT trusted you, there was a whole alliance built around that, which eventually lead to us being cornered out of lack of claim possibilities. If kita (i think?) wouldn't have come to you, that game would've been a bit different. So yeah, that and the fact that you are more experienced gave us enough motives. That's why I suggested you and I did the killing. ^_^ | ||
Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
GG | ||
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