EPTYou have to actually convince people and provide strong arguments in order to get people that you know are scum lynched.
Do you really believe that town would've followed your lead if you had died after posting those? I sincerely doubt it.
TL Mafia XXXVI - Page 116
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
You have to actually convince people and provide strong arguments in order to get people that you know are scum lynched. Do you really believe that town would've followed your lead if you had died after posting those? I sincerely doubt it. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On February 11 2011 12:20 CubEdIn wrote: @Kav, oh, that's not what I meant. It's just that people are more prone to protect the ones inside the circle, and it showed, during the past 2-3 days. Just look at who was targeted for lynching. And yeah, DT would've made things more interesting. Yeah, Medic protection was focused exclusively on those inside the circle, but that was because we were more sure about them being town. Also, GMarshal get's the "Most protected" award, you were protected 7 times in 5 days. Sorry coag, we didn't make it to Day9. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On February 11 2011 12:32 CubEdIn wrote: I never said you were wrong, but there's more to mafia than listing names. You have to actually convince people and provide strong arguments in order to get people that you know are scum lynched. Do you really believe that town would've followed your lead if you had died after posting those? I sincerely doubt it. I think theres a HIVEMIND aspect to town in mafia that if a name comes up enough people will subconsciously start to build negative references to it on its own. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On February 11 2011 12:32 bumatlarge wrote: gg! I would have gotten away with everything if it weren't for those pesky mods! Haha, not if I had any say in it. Your DT claim needed work. A real DT wouldn't have checked a body guard, imo. I honestly wish that the whole LD thing hadn't happened. I still think I could have convinced the town. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
Not only did it reveal those involved in the scandal. But it highlighted mafia needlessly really bad when they tried to fix it best they could. Props for the sick move tho. if it had been pulled off it would definitely have been one for the TL Mafia Books. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On February 11 2011 12:34 Coagulation wrote: I think theres a HIVEMIND aspect to town in mafia that if a name comes up enough people will subconsciously start to build negative references to it on its own. If there's one thing I've learned since starting mafia, it's that what you know is not as important as how you say it. You could post the full scum list from day one, but if you can't convince people that you are right, then you are no help to the town. I started playing this so I could figure out how to analyse people, but I'm coming away from it learning how to make convincing arguments. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On February 04 2011 07:55 LunarDestiny wrote: LunarDestiny (8) bumatlarge Kenpachi Divinek Brownbear CubEdIn Eti307 Beneather Barundar My list kick ass too. Still don't understand why BrownBear wanted to lynch me right away... | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Were we lucky, or was the best plan to keep the SK alive? Edit: ALso, Holy crap guys. Mafia used the forum a TON. I mean, we masons used less than a page I think... | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On February 11 2011 12:41 Kavdragon wrote: If there's one thing I've learned since starting mafia, it's that what you know is not as important as how you say it. You could post the full scum list from day one, but if you can't convince people that you are right, then you are no help to the town. I started playing this so I could figure out how to analyse people, but I'm coming away from it learning how to make convincing arguments. I see an opportunity to blatantly advertise for my blog! Excerpt: Ace's moral of the game (I think it really applies): It's not what you know, it's what you can convince people to believe. This is really where the Mafia game is won and lost and people just don't get it. In this game you are a mafia mayor and I know this because I read it correctly. Does it matter? Not really, because now I have to convince the town that you truly are. Likewise we all know quickstriker and JeeJee are innocent but in the grand scheme of things it means shit - people believe they are guilty. Once you get people to believe certain things about other players you can start either dividing the town and standing back silently watching them devour each other as mafia, or as a townie bring them all to focus on a few people. The idea is all the same - persuasion is much more powerful than outright facts. If you can lie skillfully or find a crucial mistake to exploit while keeping a straight story people will often trust you easily. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On February 11 2011 12:18 LSB wrote: Mafia sniped both DTs early. Which actually was really nice. Congrats on the first real town victory in a long time! And good to know that the clues barely helped you. real town victory? -_- was fun none the less! | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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Node
United States2159 Posts
I believe that the mafia's house of cards was bound to come tumbling down regardless of moderation mistakes. I mean, Kav had already figured it out completely and only got confirmation with the roleblock scandal. Had he, say, checked the number of DTs that night (part of what census was intended for was to make roleclaiming a bit more risky), the same outcome would have taken place. Had mafia continued as they had been, they would have probably had it in the bag. With the exception of the mason circle, town was completely tearing itself apart. Also, I'm curious what people's thoughts are on the census ability. Is it too powerful? A nice way to combat the no-flip mechanic? Not good enough? Destroys the point of the format? I'm also glad that the mayor publicly picking his own bodyguards worked out pretty well in the long run. I was worried that it wouldn't hit that nice balance of risk-reward for both the town and the mafia. Even though one of the bodyguards was mafia, which many people thought was the "worst-case scenario", the mayor's life wasn't threatened until the endgame. It's something that I think would be interesting to toy with in other formats. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On February 11 2011 13:13 Node wrote: I can understand the motive for bum's plan, but I'm not sure why mafia felt it was necessary. Town was in the shitter at that point. Except for a missed hit or two, mafia was playing a perfect game, and the only person to come under any decent suspicion was Beneather -- and even that was being redirected on to Jackal. I believe that the mafia's house of cards was bound to come tumbling down regardless of moderation mistakes. I mean, Kav had already figured it out completely and only got confirmation with the roleblock scandal. Had he, say, checked the number of DTs that night (part of what census was intended for was to make roleclaiming a bit more risky), the same outcome would have taken place. Had mafia continued as they had been, they would have probably had it in the bag. With the exception of the mason circle, town was completely tearing itself apart. Also, I'm curious what people's thoughts are on the census ability. Is it too powerful? A nice way to combat the no-flip mechanic? Not good enough? Destroys the point of the format? I'm also glad that the mayor publicly picking his own bodyguards worked out pretty well in the long run. I was worried that it wouldn't hit that nice balance of risk-reward for both the town and the mafia. Even though one of the bodyguards was mafia, which many people thought was the "worst-case scenario", the mayor's life wasn't threatened until the endgame. It's something that I think would be interesting to toy with in other formats. shoulda coulda woulda, we'll never know. All I can say was that the mod thing sucked and I didn't want to play after it but oh well. The main reason i wanted it done is because this game was incredibly fucking boring lol, rather go down in some style and pzazz then win and be like yay we win how every other mafia team wins by doing nothing and letting town lynch themselves. Sure we could have just passively built a case against LD or something but that's boring, it's not like we get money for winning these games the hosting for this game was rather well done though outside of random silly things, no super delayed posts and they were all of fun quality. Cheers | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Maybe who has the ability could be RNGed every night? That would be interesting, especially if it happens to fall in the hands of the mafia a couple of nights in a row. Or maybe make it so you cannot check the same thing every night with it if it is too powerful? | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
On February 11 2011 13:19 GMarshal wrote: Maybe who has the ability could be RNGed every night? That would be interesting, especially if it happens to fall in the hands of the mafia a couple of nights in a row. Or maybe make it so you cannot check the same thing every night with it if it is too powerful? Both are decent ideas. The original idea was to have a role called "census worker" that could do the same thing, but with this particular set-up it would've been impossible to play unless it got into the mason circle. I considered having two, but then if they ended up working together it probably would be super-OP. If I could go back and do it again I would probably say that you can't check the same thing two nights in a row. I don't really mind giving it to the mayor. I feel that if the only special things a mayor has is a) the decision of the day 1 lynch and b) bodyguards, it becomes kinda pointless to become the mayor unless you already have a super-awesome role. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
The mods messed up with the SK notification but they also messed up with the rules with the mayor too. The town was hit harder by the bad-mod stick than the mafia, and I still gave it my best shot. According to the rules, I wasn't role-blockable. It's pretty clear about that, I can't be "targeted by the role-blocker". So GMarshal and I were invincible according to the rules, because I was going to protect him every night. I was also mod confirmed to be medic to the mafia, something that should have never happened regardless of what I had said on the thread. If it's confirmed, then I can't play mind games, something I was looking forward to. If I had known/been informed that I was role-blockable, I would have had BB protect GMarshal, as the mafia had clearly shown their intent be RB'ing me the night before, and I knew that the mafia knew I was medic. Bottom line, GMarshal's death could have been avoided if the mods were clear. If LD hadn't been informed, Bumatlarge would have still been lynched. Even if you had stacked hits on me, BB would have protected GMarshal too if we hadn't killed enough mafia to lower the KP. Bottom line, Bum's DT claim screwed over mafia. His lynch wasn't a result of LD being informed. That just speed up the process, and sealed the deal. There were mistakes on both sides, but giving up because a mod made a mistake is poor play. Also, special kudos to Barundar for getting up at an ungodly hour (3am?) to be around for the lynch yesterday. We might not have gotten the RB'er if he had not been around last night. Thanks to Node and LSB for hosting. It may have not been the smoothest game, but I still managed to learn a ton, so thanks for that. | ||
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