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Okay while I agree that Muso is looking way scummier than Acrofales, I don't get why the hell Muso would claim mason like that if he was scum. It makes absolutely no sense.
Like, apparently this is his first game. Who the hell claims mason as scum on day1 in their first game? Maybe he's just lying and he does actually have hundreds of games, he just doesn't want anybody to listen to him because "hey, I'm just a noob" (and I agree that this is a scummy thing), but then again, if he has hundreds of games then why the hell is he claiming mason like that as scum?
Maybe it's because he has IRL mafia experience and maybe they just claim for the lulz all the time. Maybe he doesn't want to play scum and he just wanted and easy way to "confirm" himself as town or something like that.
##Vote Muso
Mason buddy or die. (I don't get why people (thrawn2112) wants the buddy to out himself first, could you explain that?)
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Why would a scum fake claim mason....it makes no sense even coming from a 100% newbie. I'm expecting 2 mason teams.
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Yea it doesn't make sense, there was never general concensus on masons claiming and who the hell just claims his secret role in his first game instead of being a good paranoid townie who distrusts just about any information he gets.
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On November 02 2012 01:50 prplhz wrote:
Mason buddy or die. (I don't get why people (thrawn2112) wants the buddy to out himself first, could you explain that?)
If player x claims that player y is his mason buddy, and then player y says "no player x is lying" then we don't know if player x is scum and player y is town, or if player x and player y are both scum. i doubt that player x would be town, or that they'd both be town. if player x is scum and is claiming that scum player y is mason buddy, scum player y might think "oh no wtf i'm not getting involved in this" and try to distance himself from his scumbuddy by saying player x is lying.
so i'd rather have the buddy speak on their own behalf, seems like it'd be harder to fake the claim that way.
or to make it even better, they should really just make posts at the exact same time confirming each other as masons
so screw all that, they should post at same time if they decide to claim
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I don't get it. If they are scum they can still talk it over. And if they are not scum they are telling the truth.
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On November 02 2012 02:05 risk.nuke wrote:
I don't get it. If they are scum they can still talk it over. And if they are not scum they are telling the truth.
if muso is scum, judging by the way he claimed i doubt he talked anything over lol
but regardless, all that was mostly pointless... masons should just claim at the same time so we can be fairly certain that they're at least sharing a qt, regardless of alignment
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Release's first game ever on TL, opening postTown:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2012 09:08 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 08:44 Mordanis wrote:
So my last game began with a discussion of whether to vote or not that wasn't very productive. We got lucky and scored a good D1 lynch, but it felt very, well, luck based. So I'll start this out by saying that if we don't lynch today, we'll probably be in a really shitty situation. In short, I am for a vote today. Also, it's good to be working together with Golden again! For Liquidia!
Is this day cycle going to be an extra couple of hours? I only ask because it was in my first game and I'd like to make sure what the situation is. Thanks You say that you are for a vote, but you state that your other vote was luck based. Considering you said "very luck based", doesn't that mean to say that we are not going to experience the same luck? If we don't experience the same luck, we will very much end up lynching a townie, which makes your "for a vote" seem like you want to lynch a townie. Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this game and find out ways for pointing out scum rather than ways not to. This seems more like filler. The useful part of your post can be summarized by: We should have a lynch today. A no-lynch would be detrimental. ##FOS: Mordanis
Fairly similar to his attack on kush this game.
2nd game Town, he spends most of the game tunneling grush. Way more 1-liners, inconclusive to the current situation
3rd game Vig, he gets in my face pretty early, but generally tried to keep talking. Also cited activity issues due to school?
4th game Town,
+ Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 08:58 Release wrote:I think YourHarry is Grush's new alias. Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie
On a more serious note, we want this ship rollin' as fast as possible. Discussing policy is not scumhunting but it does at least help us get the discussion going. First off, something we want to avoid as town is Vanillas claiming blue roles. In both my last game and Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII there were Vanillas who claimed blue roles(DTs). Both times town ended in an bad spot (although not as bad as it could've been due to luck). But this should still be avoided at all costs as it can cause massive damage to town. Why? Well let's say a vanilla townie claims DT, and then the real DT claims because the vanilla is lying. As it doesn't make sense for vanillas to claim blue roles, we must assume that one of theese players is scum and the other one is the real DT.Two following scenarios can occur here
1). The townie gets lynched. which means that the other person is probebly the real DT, this must however not be true.
2). The DT gets lynched, which means that the vanilla townie will 100% get lynched the next day.
While 2 is far worse than 1 they are still both very bad for town. There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue.
I will also copy a part of my first post from my last game(where I was DT) since I am lazy.
Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons.
1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2.
2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more.
3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still.
We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him.
Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post!
Ignoring the copy-pasted policy stuff for now, Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution. Im pretty sure, again, that no one was even remotely close to voting in a way to force a nolynch. I love the bolded line; you could have kept this post simple and concise. But you decided to make it "super-duper long." ##vote: LazermonkeyYourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer. Fos: yourharry
Fos: lazermonkey
Keep in mind, he's already spent a game tunneling grush, from what I can tell, it was related to fake-claims. Opens with hostility and a vote.
To be fair, I don't think he's ever rolled scum, but his jumping out of the gate fighting looks like hes town yet again. He's never played with kush before. He also explained that he expects people to NOT derp all over the thread when they post here:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote:On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote:
EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it. I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up. I think they should probably both claim actually. @releaseAre you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming? Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death? well, you were assigning Mason traits to the miller, which led to the confusion that it did between who should claim. Also, you didn't mention mason but the "town who can talk to each other." You avoided saying mason. Mason is clear. "town who can talk to each other" could be mason, but could be miller if someone assumed you were talking about who YOU thought "could talk to each other." Mafia is a game in which posts can't be editted. People tend to check their posts for any dubious or tentative information. I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose.I wasn't talking about the mass claim. That was rather obvious.
Sadly, kush is unable to meet that requirement. My "meta" read is that this strong aggression is in fact representative of town release. Keeping in mind that there are no scum games to compare with, I'm not willing to vote Release for his posts against kush.
i also agree with this from Zealos:
On November 02 2012 01:41 Zealos wrote:
--SNIP--
That being said, I do think releases later posts have a townie attitude about them. He is saying what he appears to think without hiding anything or pushing a mafia agenda as far as I can tell.
--SNIP--
I think I have a handle on this mason claim shitfest. I'm rereading this through more carefully because I just kind of glanced the thread over, but I think I'm going to be voting Muso in a moment.
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Hi all! I forgot this was starting, and I just caught up.
About Release:
I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today.
As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim.
##Vote Muso
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Okay, ignoring the possibility of two mason pairs:
I could actually quote every single one of Muso's posts to help make my point...
- He "lied" about his game history
+ Show Spoiler +On November 01 2012 13:25 Muso wrote:
Oh sorry guys I didn't know there was a difference between Mason and Miller.
I know I said I'd played hundreds of mafia games before but I actually lied just to get in to the game. This is my first one, but I watched a few youtube videos so I thin I get it.
Sorry if I'm bad :S
- He "lied" about reading the game setup
+ Show Spoiler +On November 01 2012 13:25 Muso wrote:
Oh sorry guys I didn't know there was a difference between Mason and Miller.
I know I said I'd played hundreds of mafia games before but I actually lied just to get in to the game. This is my first one, but I watched a few youtube videos so I thin I get it.
Sorry if I'm bad :S On November 01 2012 13:41 Muso wrote:
I am a mason, I didn't know there was a miller too
Are the lies because he's new and quite frankly, stupid? Or because his fake-claim was TERRIBLE and he's banking on the pity card to save him somehow?
##Vote: Muso
Acro has provided an encrypted 'claim post' and I don't see the benefit to a 1-1 trade if Acro was scum. This situation makes way more sense if Acro is telling the truth.
Technically, 2 mason pairs is possible, but quite frankly I think we're going to be lynching Muso regardless now, even if a "partner" claims. His filter is just too wrong for me to be willing to let him live.
Here is what I would suggest:
Muso, if you are in fact a mason, write a last will for your partner to use to confirm themselves.
Muso's Partner - Unless you think you can save him, do not claim until after the 1hr resolution period starts at the end of the night phase. There is no good reason to out yourself before that time (unless you can save him).
Could someone comment on that suggestion, and perhaps if they would even believe someone claiming to be Muso's mason-partner? I really don't think revealing the other halves is a good idea right now.
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Lol if muso has a town partner he should claim now to avoid a mislynch... Anything else would be brain dead logic
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I really hate this encryption thing, it just doesn't make sense for the point of the game imo.
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On November 02 2012 03:22 Mattchew wrote:
Lol if muso has a town partner he should claim now to avoid a mislynch... Anything else would be brain dead logic
And then I turn around and say SCUMBUDDY!! And then we argue, probably lynch muso anyways. Do you not see that as a potential outcome? I see that as the more likely outcome at this point.
If a mason flips, is their partner revealed?
Also, unanswered questions:
On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote:
Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death?
On November 01 2012 09:52 Hopeless1der wrote:
Do scum get fake/safeclaims?
On November 02 2012 03:29 Zealos wrote:
I really hate this encryption thing, it just doesn't make sense for the point of the game imo.
...He creating "proof" that he is a mason. If he dies, his partner decrypts the message, becomes confirmed town. There are games that explicitly do not allow it, this one made no distinction. Do you think it makes Acro scummy?
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If acro and muso both have people claim their mason buddies we go back to gameplay analysis... I would not lynch either based on their posting thus far
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On November 02 2012 03:36 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 03:29 Zealos wrote:
I really hate this encryption thing, it just doesn't make sense for the point of the game imo. ...He creating "proof" that he is a mason. If he dies, his partner decrypts the message, becomes confirmed town. There are games that explicitly do not allow it, this one made no distinction. Do you think it makes Acro scummy?
No, I just think it's really dumb and not in the spirit of the game.
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It's just like breadcrumbing, Zealos. I don't see anything wrong with it and I'm not sure how it's not in the spirit of the game, how else would mason partners confirm eachother? Nah, I'm fine with it, I'm not fine with muso, lying about how many games he has and then screwing over himself, useless to town and probably scummy. Only thing is that I'm not sure why his scumbuddies aren't reigning him in if he is scum, probably doesn't communicate with them.
Either way, he's pretty useless and possibly detrimental to us.
##vote muso
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Millers flip miller on death.
If a mason dies, their partner is not revealed.
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drazak.... you are voting muso because he is useless and detrimental? and you have nothing to say about his mason claim, which is pretty much the only reason why anyone is voting for him
"Either way, he's pretty useless and possibly detrimental to us."
scum voting tactics 101
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Day 1 Vote Count
Release(0): Mattchew, thrawn2112, risk.nuke
Muso(7): Acrofales, risk.nuke, thrawn2112, Zealos, prplhz, mkfuba07, Hopeless1der
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What? How is that scum voting? If he's useless to town and possibly mafia, why not get rid of him? I don't see anyone else with a high probability of being mafia (YET). His mason claim as bad and he should feel bad, he should also have had his partner check in if he wasn't mafia, the partner hasn't.
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EPT
