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On May 07 2011 06:23 TrainFX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 how much more proof do the mods need? is cruncher lieing enough? I sure hope so
When did he lie? Do you even understand what's happening here or are you just succumbing to mob mentality.
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Oh, oops. Just wrote a full paragraph about the situation most pressing on IdrA's stream thread... but it is not allowed.
Hahahaha, better comment to go here: My life for IdrA. Props to the dude below me.
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On May 07 2011 06:26 TheRhox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:23 TrainFX wrote:On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 how much more proof do the mods need? is cruncher lieing enough? I sure hope so When did he lie? Do you even understand what's happening here or are you just succumbing to mob mentality.
what are you even talking about? go to the post and read it
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On May 07 2011 06:32 Deindar wrote:
Oh, oops. Just wrote a full paragraph about the situation most pressing on IdrA's stream thread... but it is not allowed. Get your panties out of a bunch TL.
Watch me get banned for this.......
you should change your quote to "My life for IdrA" since you're probably about to get martyred.
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On May 07 2011 06:20 TheRhox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:17 Venomsflame wrote:On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 THANK YOU. Reading through the thread it is RIDICULOUS that no one even pays attention. Does anyone even doubt that Cruncher would do something like this? IdrA was not treated unfairly but the blatant lack of "investigating" or even plain looking at the evidence by anyone is plain embarrassing. Cruncher did nothing to clear his name and should be considered a streamcheater until any actual evidence proves otherwise. TL should not have shut either stream off as it is not an offense to TL or any tournament/competitive play they host, but for the community's view it should be rather clear who is at fault. Guilty until proven innocent then, am I right?
Guilty until proven innocent sounds pretty fair.
On May 07 2011 06:20 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 05:42 Nick_54 wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. I have some swamp land I was interested in selling. PM for details. Back in the Broodwar days, before the invention of a reliable antihack, the only way to determine if someone was maphacking (which is almost the same as streamcheating) was to watch the replay and assess how many "coincidences" there were (blindcountering builds, suspicious unit movement and so on). Now in the current case opinions on that differ, maybe it's case for a "tribunal" of pros like it has been used in the TSL to decide whether or not Cruncher cheated. I think many people don't realise the implications that him cheating, so this really is the case, has. He'd probably get banned from all foreign competition for at least a year.
Cruncher released his replay here:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173492-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-le
(excerpt from)
+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2011 06:25 CrunCher wrote:I'm not sure if you are trolling. The screenshot was taken by someone trying to 'prove I cheated'..look at the desktop, then look at my desktop, same for browser. They posted the ss in another thread and I used it when chill pm'd me( i didn't take any screenshots). the point of the ss is the guy was obviously watching my stream, why wouldn't he take a ss's to prove i was cheating, instead takes one of me doing what 99% of other players do, mute a stream and try to snipe. The replay is vs minigun who I matched after my game against idra. I had the stream open to match idra again(read the chat "cruncher trying to snipe idra again") http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173492-1v1-protoss-zerg-taldarim-altar-leHeres the replay i also find it funny on idras vod. "hes stream cheating, so im going to roach. oh hes chronoing probes, this might work, and his wall is badly designed. oh hes chronoing out two stalkers hes cheating (then zealots pop out). and we know zealots are good against roaches...not. instead i would of made 3 more cannons instead of zealots. i've played idra what, 3 times in the last few weeks on ladder, and the only time i cheat is when i win and he does a horrible all-in go watch my game against idra in tsl3 game 2. i do almost the same build, except i make a stalker to defend with 2 cannons instead of zealots. guess why? the wall is 4 buildings, not 3. and i do the same build against ret right after. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/173493-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolishint: zealots > zergs who take a early 3rd and defend with 4 lings edit: and you guys can go watch the ipl games, how many games does idra all in vs kiwikaki, 2 times in a bo5? edit2: you guys can also go check my eu account, and see how often zergs do 1 base/2base all ins against me edit3: you guys can also go check out my wc3 history, which i played for 4~ years, 2 which i played on top levels and attended multiple lans, playing top 3 in more than 1.
Perhaps we can have a "tribunal of pros" review it and determine whether or not Cruncher is innocent or guilty?
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On May 07 2011 06:34 TrainFX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:26 TheRhox wrote:On May 07 2011 06:23 TrainFX wrote:On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 how much more proof do the mods need? is cruncher lieing enough? I sure hope so When did he lie? Do you even understand what's happening here or are you just succumbing to mob mentality. what are you even talking about? go to the post and read it
What are YOU talking about. Cruncher never lied. If you have proof otherwise please feel free to post it.
While you are at it, maybe try reading this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=23#446
@ Trace - It doesn't take a tribunal of bronze leaguers to see he wasn't ghosting. Come on, Zealots vs a Roach all-in? You are really pushing hard but there is literally nothing there.
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did you guys notice Idra looks like a jew he most likely is and cruncher is called abdoulah bakalabakala so this is the old jew arabian war, team liquid being the usa arming the arabs against the jews lol!
User was banned for this post.
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Come on, Zealots vs a Roach all-in?
He couldn't make anything else at that time.
It doesn't prove anything and I'm not saying that he cheated, but don't use the fact that he made zealots as something proving that he wasn't ghosting.
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On May 07 2011 06:52 derive wrote:He couldn't make anything else at that time. It doesn't prove anything and I'm not saying that he cheated, but don't use the fact that he made zealots as something proving that he wasn't ghosting.
but he also chrono boosted them when idra's roaches where in the middle of the map...why do it blindly?
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I seriously can't stop laughing. Too perfect. CrunCher wasn't the person who posted that screenshot.
Should CrunCher release the long form replay, or will the certificate of live egg on your face suffice?
It boils down to this. Innocent until proven guilty. CrunCher has provided compelling circumstantial evidence that he is innocent. A few hysterical IdrA fans have provided conspiracy theories. This is a non-issue. CrunCher is such a troll.
EDIT: On May 07 2011 06:56 Mactator wrote:
Cruncher is getting way too much attention for having sniped Idra on his stream. This guy should start performing instead of sniping Idra who obviously is pretty tired of him. So stop this girlish drama. Cruncher hasn't performed yet. He should manner up and be more quiet.
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Cruncher is getting way too much attention for having sniped Idra on his stream. This guy should start performing instead of sniping Idra who obviously is pretty tired of him. So stop this girlish drama. Cruncher hasn't performed yet. He should manner up and be more quiet.
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On May 07 2011 06:56 Mactator wrote:
Cruncher is getting way too much attention for having sniped Idra on his stream. This guy should start performing instead of sniping Idra who obviously is pretty tired of him. So stop this girlish drama. Cruncher hasn't performed yet. He should manner up and be more quiet.
Yeah, of course cruncher should be the one to "manner up" infact he should be honored to be called a faggot, a cheater, and a waste of life by Idra who obviously is the victim here.
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On May 07 2011 07:05 TheRhox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:56 Mactator wrote:
Cruncher is getting way too much attention for having sniped Idra on his stream. This guy should start performing instead of sniping Idra who obviously is pretty tired of him. So stop this girlish drama. Cruncher hasn't performed yet. He should manner up and be more quiet. Yeah, of course cruncher should be the one to "manner up" infact he should be honored to be called a faggot, a cheater, and a waste of life by Idra who obviously is the victim here.
That's not what the sentence you quoted said. You should try reading it again!
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On May 07 2011 07:05 TheRhox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:56 Mactator wrote:
Cruncher is getting way too much attention for having sniped Idra on his stream. This guy should start performing instead of sniping Idra who obviously is pretty tired of him. So stop this girlish drama. Cruncher hasn't performed yet. He should manner up and be more quiet. Yeah, of course cruncher should be the one to "manner up" infact he should be honored to be called a faggot, a cheater, and a waste of life by Idra who obviously is the victim here.
Yes, he should. Unless you think it's justified to bother idra every time he hits him on ladder (which he tries to snipe BTW)? Two wrong make a right eh?
also, why not just re-open the fan club thread, this thread is being used as a proxy fanclub thread regardless, and people have cooled down.
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just shut up about this already. crunchers fanclub hadn't had a post in like 2 weeks before this whole deal, if you don't like him, just leave it be. He only ever gets mentioned when people that don't like him get involved. Honestly, let the guy lose his fans on his own if you don't like him
all this arguing is just getting the idra-haters to rally around cruncher like before.
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On May 07 2011 06:17 Venomsflame wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 THANK YOU. Reading through the thread it is RIDICULOUS that no one even pays attention. Does anyone even doubt that Cruncher would do something like this? IdrA was not treated unfairly but the blatant lack of "investigating" or even plain looking at the evidence by anyone is plain embarrassing. Cruncher did nothing to clear his name and should be considered a streamcheater until any actual evidence proves otherwise. TL should not have shut either stream off as it is not an offense to TL or any tournament/competitive play they host, but for the community's view it should be rather clear who is at fault.
oh the ignorance of these two latest post combined is over 9000.
Get your facts right please, cruncher did NOT post that screenshot. Also read the Cruncher respond in that thread. LOL chronoing 2 zealots if you know roach all in is incoming instead of making cannons... yeah i suppose now you will say he did a BAD counter to cover up his cheat, no matter what, the cruncher hate continues.
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On May 07 2011 07:09 Loooui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:17 Venomsflame wrote:On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 THANK YOU. Reading through the thread it is RIDICULOUS that no one even pays attention. Does anyone even doubt that Cruncher would do something like this? IdrA was not treated unfairly but the blatant lack of "investigating" or even plain looking at the evidence by anyone is plain embarrassing. Cruncher did nothing to clear his name and should be considered a streamcheater until any actual evidence proves otherwise. TL should not have shut either stream off as it is not an offense to TL or any tournament/competitive play they host, but for the community's view it should be rather clear who is at fault. oh the ignorance of these two latest post combined is over 9000. Get your facts right please, cruncher did NOT post that screenshot. Also read the Cruncher respond in that thread. LOL chronoing 2 zealots if you know roach all in is incoming instead of making cannons... yeah i suppose now you will say he did a BAD counter to cover up his cheat, no matter what, the cruncher hate continues.
Actually double chronoing zealots is the most suspicious part of the whole replay, which is also what Jibba's protoss source likely said (and the source is someone you'd respect). Still, there's no conclusive evidence, so this discussion is pretty much pointless.
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On May 07 2011 07:07 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 07:05 TheRhox wrote:On May 07 2011 06:56 Mactator wrote:
Cruncher is getting way too much attention for having sniped Idra on his stream. This guy should start performing instead of sniping Idra who obviously is pretty tired of him. So stop this girlish drama. Cruncher hasn't performed yet. He should manner up and be more quiet. Yeah, of course cruncher should be the one to "manner up" infact he should be honored to be called a faggot, a cheater, and a waste of life by Idra who obviously is the victim here. That's not what the sentence you quoted said. You should try reading it again!
it's called sarcasm
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On May 07 2011 06:55 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I seriously can't stop laughing. Too perfect. CrunCher wasn't the person who posted that screenshot. Should CrunCher release the long form replay, or will the certificate of live egg on your face suffice? It boils down to this. Innocent until proven guilty. CrunCher has provided compelling circumstantial evidence that he is innocent. A few hysterical IdrA fans have provided conspiracy theories. This is a non-issue. CrunCher is such a troll. EDIT: Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:56 Mactator wrote:
Cruncher is getting way too much attention for having sniped Idra on his stream. This guy should start performing instead of sniping Idra who obviously is pretty tired of him. So stop this girlish drama. Cruncher hasn't performed yet. He should manner up and be more quiet.
Whoa, relax man. If you even read the link I posted I corrected myself and said a third party took the screenshot, but the fact remains that the screenshot could not be used because the timestamp on Cruncher's stream, viewable inside the screenshot, was still 30 minutes after his game against Idra. Further down I even stated that there was not enough evidence to say Cruncher streamcheated, but only that the screenshot could not be used as otherwise because of the time in which it was taken.
Again, take a deep breath and relax before you blow an artery.
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if you chrono probes you have no money left over for units at all. you can get ahead economically but then you die to roach ling all ins alot. with 2 early bases you have no need to chrono every probe to keep up with the zerg, so his choice is either chrono the only unit hes able to make and get called a cheater, or he can chrono nothing and get called a bad?
i dont like cruncher at all but this is getting more rediculous than trumps hair
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EPT
