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On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out.
I have some swamp land I was interested in selling. PM for details.
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On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:
It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Without this insult the post would have felt a lot less hypocritical. (at least to me)
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It's also untrue. Bisu fandom makes you pretty, I can't see how anyone could deny that.
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On May 07 2011 05:36 BloodNinja wrote:
@Trace
I dont have time but your #1 is very flawed. That was a allegation thrown out by a random user with nothing to back it up. He has provided zero evidence of this statement being true.
In addition I would recommend you read Tree.Hugger's post two above you. It provides some good analysis right there.
On May 07 2011 05:40 TheRhox wrote:
Trace, when did cruncher post that he admits to stream cheating? can you show us the link please?
I was assuming there was a post or some other form of evidence to back up that allegation. If there isn't, then my bad.
Also, I didn't even see Tree.Hugger's post earlier, I was on page 101 when I was writing my own post.
Frankly I'm not an "IdrA fanboy" at all. I'm just uncomfortable with the possibility that a progamer like Cruncher could have been cheating, especially in a scene with integrity like StarCraft. In my personal opinion, there's currently a higher possibility of him cheating than him not cheating. All I'm asking for is more evidence of his innocence and/or guilt, if there is any available.
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On May 07 2011 04:49 askTeivospy wrote:
wow he's just gone for 2 days, guys... get over it already its not a big deal
this is the week when idra promised he will analyse and live commentary when he is streaming and i think these are last days he would do that. i think thats main reason why people are pretty angry :/
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On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out.
I don't believe this discussion can bring any good for both parties, but I want to add that every thing stated can be used the other way around to make cruncher look like a cheater.
As for the accusations of TL not acting fair is freaking ridiculous. If anyone be it chill(The most baller tl admin) or a 1 post account were to post what Idra said there would be consequence greater or equal to what Idra received. I honestly believe that people think idra was banned for calling cruncher a cheater and not for the insult itself.
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On May 07 2011 05:55 TR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 04:49 askTeivospy wrote:
wow he's just gone for 2 days, guys... get over it already its not a big deal this is the week when idra promised he will analyse and live commentary when he is streaming and i think these are last days he would do that. i think thats main reason why people are pretty angry :/
Didn't he say he would do it for a week? As in seven days? So it would end on Tuesday right?
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I find it quite unfair that Idra on his fan page on TL is not able to defend himself against many of the claims and accusations here. He should at least have the right to defend himself. It is really bad manner to discuss people that are banned.
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On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out.
Have Cruncher release the replay, then everyone can gain some better evidence.
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On May 07 2011 05:57 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 05:55 TR wrote:On May 07 2011 04:49 askTeivospy wrote:
wow he's just gone for 2 days, guys... get over it already its not a big deal this is the week when idra promised he will analyse and live commentary when he is streaming and i think these are last days he would do that. i think thats main reason why people are pretty angry :/ Didn't he say he would do it for a week? As in seven days? So it would end on Tuesday right?
Im not completely sure so it could be like you said. Anyway, it's still 2 days off :/
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On May 07 2011 05:55 TR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 04:49 askTeivospy wrote:
wow he's just gone for 2 days, guys... get over it already its not a big deal this is the week when idra promised he will analyse and live commentary when he is streaming and i think these are last days he would do that. i think thats main reason why people are pretty angry :/
That's not TL's fault, they don't run justin.tv. It's not like they have a magical anti-stream laser that they can shoot at IdrA when he streams and it shuts down the stream, he's using his fans to attack TL and they're blindly being manipulated. I'm a huge IdrA fan, but I'm not stupid enough to think that this is actually TLs fault.
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On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out.
You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out.
Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430
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Did anyone else hear the lat 30 seconds of idra's latest vod on justin? While the commercials playing for the live viewers you can hear a conversation between IdrA and machine (I think) wich goes something like:
M:No one can hear you right?
I: No, they cant, I'm waiting for a commercial to finnish.
M: Look at Judy/cuite/something else *fake kissing noice* (MA). cutie, cutie, cutie/ random noice.
M:fuck you, let me sleep
Are they snuggling with a kittie or what? LOL Or with each other =0
Cheak it out in the end of the 1:57:50 long video. O.o
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On May 07 2011 05:55 TR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 04:49 askTeivospy wrote:
wow he's just gone for 2 days, guys... get over it already its not a big deal this is the week when idra promised he will analyse and live commentary when he is streaming and i think these are last days he would do that. i think thats main reason why people are pretty angry :/
There's still nothing stopping him from doing this. Not like he's banned from Justin.tv or Twitter..
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On May 07 2011 06:07 Swineflew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 05:55 TR wrote:On May 07 2011 04:49 askTeivospy wrote:
wow he's just gone for 2 days, guys... get over it already its not a big deal this is the week when idra promised he will analyse and live commentary when he is streaming and i think these are last days he would do that. i think thats main reason why people are pretty angry :/ That's not TL's fault, they don't run justin.tv. It's not like they have a magical anti-stream laser that they can shoot at IdrA when he streams and it shuts down the stream, he's using his fans to attack TL and they're blindly being manipulated. I'm a huge IdrA fan, but I'm not stupid enough to think that this is actually TLs fault.
I know IdrA is still able to stream but... ehm really cant type my opinion here cause i will probably get banned so.. yeah :I
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430
THANK YOU. Reading through the thread it is RIDICULOUS that no one even pays attention. Does anyone even doubt that Cruncher would do something like this? IdrA was not treated unfairly but the blatant lack of "investigating" or even plain looking at the evidence by anyone is plain embarrassing. Cruncher did nothing to clear his name and should be considered a streamcheater until any actual evidence proves otherwise. TL should not have shut either stream off as it is not an offense to TL or any tournament/competitive play they host, but for the community's view it should be rather clear who is at fault.
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On May 07 2011 06:17 Venomsflame wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430 THANK YOU. Reading through the thread it is RIDICULOUS that no one even pays attention. Does anyone even doubt that Cruncher would do something like this? IdrA was not treated unfairly but the blatant lack of "investigating" or even plain looking at the evidence by anyone is plain embarrassing. Cruncher did nothing to clear his name and should be considered a streamcheater until any actual evidence proves otherwise. TL should not have shut either stream off as it is not an offense to TL or any tournament/competitive play they host, but for the community's view it should be rather clear who is at fault.
Guilty until proven innocent then, am I right?
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On May 07 2011 05:42 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. I have some swamp land I was interested in selling. PM for details.
Back in the Broodwar days, before the invention of a reliable antihack, the only way to determine if someone was maphacking (which is almost the same as streamcheating) was to watch the replay and assess how many "coincidences" there were (blindcountering builds, suspicious unit movement and so on). Now in the current case opinions on that differ, maybe it's case for a "tribunal" of pros like it has been used in the TSL to decide whether or not Cruncher cheated.
I think many people don't realise the implications that him cheating, so this really is the case, has. He'd probably get banned from all foreign competition for at least a year.
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On May 07 2011 06:08 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 05:22 tree.hugger wrote:It's really depressing to me to find out that IdrA fans have adopted his perennial whiny attitude and his perpetual claims of being the victim. It's actually pretty unprecedented for an entire fanbase to adopt the distinguishing personality traits of their idol. After all, Bisu fans are no more handsome now than they were a few years ago.
Are there enough people in this thread to look at this rationally? Let's find out, shall we? On May 07 2011 03:57 Essentia wrote:
Wait so Cruncher posted a screenshot of him having Idra's stream opened while he was playing and yet ppl say that's not enough evidence? Where's the logic in that? There's clearly a good majority of you who have no idea what you're talking about. For example, this person has clearly not actually looked at the screenshot in question, nor read CrunCher's explanation for his actions. Let's go over this piece by piece. - IdrA's stream is MUTED in the CrunCher screenshotPlenty of people have said that CrunCher could easily have turned up the volume to the stream at some other point. This is true. However, he also could've mixed himself a martini during the countdown. Any speculation on what CrunCher could have done is the product of bias. Pure and simple. The only concrete evidence we have that CrunCher was looking at IdrA's stream shows him doing so completely legally. - CrunCher explained the reason he had IdrA's stream open was that he was attempting to 'snipe' IdrA. This means something highly specific in this case. It means that CrunCher was attempting to enter the queue for finding games at the exact moment that IdrA did, thereby increasing the chances that they would play each other. There is nothing wrong with this. This is perfectly logical and plausible. Any speculation on other reasons why CrunCher may have been watching IdrA's stream are the product of bias. - CrunCher's play is not standard, but it's not completely odd either. Plenty of protoss wall-in with two gateways. Plenty of protoss add more than one cannon, especially if they do not have good scouting information. CrunCher knew that he had done early damage to IdrA by delaying his hatchery for so long. IdrA has become well known recently for all-inning against protoss. Against CrunCher, and against CrunCher's opening, it is extremely reasonable for CrunCher to have played the way he did to be safe.
- IdrA doesn't have good enough perspective to make this call.We know IdrA doesn't like CrunCher. We know he said he thought CrunCher would stream look before he ever had the slightest shred of evidence to any effect. Throughout the game, he made a self-destructive decision and then ascribed all of CrunCher's actions to his earlier theory. IdrA cannot have made that accusation rationally. He even predicts two gate stalker when instead CrunCher sends out two zealots. IdrA had no perspective. - TL Mods acted to protect CrunCher/punish IdrA for what he said on stream/ruin it for "The Community" When this issue was first raised, several staff immediately suspected CrunCher of cheating and suggested that his stream be taken down. As Chill has posted, he sent a pm asking CrunCher for his side of the story. Once CrunCher posted his explanation and pointed out the muted stream in the screenshot, it was determined that his explanation was plausible, and that in the absence of any real proof, no action could fairly be taken against CrunCher. IdrA, meanwhile, was banned for posting an immature and disgusting insult. That's literally all there is to it. Anyone who says that IdrA has been treated unfairly on TL is so unbelievably wrong it's silly. If IdrA were anything but the best foreign BW player, he would've been banned permanently years ago. IdrA is perfectly able to keep streaming if he wants to. He's stopped streaming because he's throwing a temper tantrum and wants attention. TL doesn't need IdrA, but apparently he needs TL.
To recap: - No evidence against CrunCher. - Only biased conjecture. TL has a responsibility to be fair to all of its members. This isn't a popularity contest, this is a contest of who can produce proof of what they say. And IdrA and his fanboys have no proof. Reasonable doubt exists. I really can't understand why this is so hard to figure out. You know what's funnier? The screenshot Cruncher took was taken 30 minutes AFTER his game with IdrA and posted nearly an hour later with the time on the bottom right snipped out. Source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=22#430
how much more proof do the mods need? is cruncher lieing enough? I sure hope so
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EPT
