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On July 27 2010 02:25 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 02:12 BigT wrote:On July 27 2010 02:04 Scarecrow wrote:On July 27 2010 01:53 BigT wrote:On July 27 2010 01:45 Scarecrow wrote:
You're not going to get anywhere with your attitude Big T. I came here from your blog and put myself through this thread. You're arrogant and dismissive, pissing people off to the point where almost everyone is against you then you call them wrong (undignified...really?) for voicing criticism. Notice that other streams don't get this kind of flak, maybe it's your attitude that's the problem here?
"Be dignified, keep your opinion to yourself" doesn't make sense. I value my opinion and thus I think it's worth sharing so I'll keep it to myself??? You have a very strange notion of what a forum is about.
First of all to respond to your reply, I am no where near arrogant. And I'm not calling them wrong for voicing criticism. What I'm trying to point out is that there is a difference between constructive criticism and pure opinion. For the most part I have been getting pure opinion of people and yes, I will admit, I am being dismissive to those people. Because I don't understand why people feel the need to tell me their personal opinion especially when it is something negative. Now let me use you as an example. You value your opinion, so why did you need to share it with me? What value did you add? I hoped that just maybe, by adding my voice to the chorus, you might start to realize that it is your attitude that is the problem here. Learn to take criticism and not respond to everything people post, that is unless you're a believer in 'any publicity is good publicity'. You are doing the exact same thing as everyone else here, voicing your opinion. You're an ironic hypocrite posting your own negative opinion on other people's opinions. Take your own advice, keep it to yourself, and this thread wouldn't be in its current state. I actually encourage and respond very well to constructive criticism if it indeed constructive criticism  But there hasn't been any examples of this in this thread... Also, I am not doing the exact same thing. I am not going out of my way to voice my opinion for no reason. This is my thread, and I have a reason... And I'm not offended by my thread's current state. If people don't see where I'm coming from then so be it... I know my morals and I'm going to defend them Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 05:41 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
Don't treat them as people of equal skill who are critiquing your play. That's not your audience. Treat them like noobs. Take the criticism seriously no matter the form.
Viewer A- "BUILD MORE CANNONS NUUUUUUB!"
Mr.Big-T-
"I see some people suggesting cannons, the reason I didn't go cannons here is because I needed the money more zealots because I saw there was a window in his timing that I could abuse."
Now you sound like a confident, intelligent, skilled player who not only plays decently, but can explain the reasoning behind every one of their moves. If you can explain why you did/did not do this based on x, y and z, you accomplish many things. You educate, show your knowledge, and show that you can take any question seriously, even if it's some dumbass spamming "cannons!" in your chat.
That's my advice. At the least it sounds better than complaining about the feedback IMO. I empathize with you, I just don't think it's the best way to interact with the audience.
Looks like constructive criticism to me, on the first page too. I'm sure there's more as well. I don't get why you discount negative opinions especially as a caster looking to interact with the community. Use your own intellect to decide what to take on board and what to discard. Just cause they're opinions doesn't make them wrong or useless. Anyway, I'm done with this, I'm sure you'll find many others to argue your morals with
First of all it may look like it to you, and thats fine, thats your opinion. But you have to learn that I have an opinion as well and you cant say its wrong, you have to learn to accept that I have my opinion for whatever reason.
Second, this is actually very constructive (you finally acknowledged that they are opinions and didnt call me a name this time)! I don't discount negative opinions and never ever said they are wrong or useless. Like I just said, everyone has an opinion and you cant tell them that its right or wrong, its an opinion. However, if someone is going to voice their negative opinion about me, I am going to defend myself. I am not going to subdue who I am or what I stand for just to increase my "online persona". I'm the same person online as I am in person. And I hope this is an example as to how I do infact take constructive criticism well (although your last line as quite smart ass haha).
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On July 27 2010 02:36 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
Big T, I use this whole thread as evidence that you need to learn how to take constructive criticism better.
See here's the problem, this isn't a relevant example of this at all. Because none of it was constructive criticism. It was all just argumentative pesonal opinion.
On July 27 2010 02:36 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
Like I said, constructive criticism does not have to be nice or sugar coated for it to be constructive criticism.
I can appreciate you wanting to save face, but I have to point out that your constant denial that anything is wrong with you, and that we are in fact just flaming you goes to show my point.
I agree 110%. I never discounted your post because of it not being sugar coated or nice. I discounted it because it was just a complete opposite stance. You were just completely arguing and making sure I hear your personal opinion.
On July 27 2010 02:36 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
The response I have to that is that you are overly sensitive and were not being genuine when you said you could take constructive criticism.
You keep saying stuff like "you didn't consider my feelings" and act incredibly butthurt just because we noticed you couldn't take criticism. This is the internet. Nobody has to act like your bff just to give you a suggestion.
Again, it had nothing to do with you hurting my feelings or being being overly sensitive haha. That had nothing to do with why I dismissed it from being constructive criticism. Again, I did because you were just straight arguing with me without acknowledging anything I had to say. And your right no one has to act like my bff to give me a suggestion, but don't try to play dumb and act like you weren't insulting me with your plethora of rhetorical questions you were asking in your posts... I'm not dumb lol.
On July 27 2010 02:36 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
Everyone in this thread who has mentioned my post has said it was constructive. I understand you feel insulted by it.
No I don't lol, your just assumed that to insult me again xD
On July 27 2010 02:36 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
I would feel weird setting up a phone date.
It's too much energy to spend on one person who thinks you're insulting them. I gave you some advice, you didn't take it. I'm OK with that. You think I was being rude and insulting you.
It's vent....hundreds of sc2 players use it everyday... Can you please stop being sarcastic and insulting me?
And based on what I just quoted are you honestly going to say you haven't been insulting me? I could quote multiple of times you have insulted me...
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I'm not sure what to tell you BigT, you've gone from claiming that I didn't give you constructive criticism to I'm insulting you. Nothing you quoted was an insult, I'm not out to get you, and according to the claims of me and several others in this thread, you did indeed receive constructive criticism.
If all you're going to do is get defensive and claim I've been insulting you, then I'm done here. I didn't come here to get dragged down into an internet debate.
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On July 27 2010 03:09 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
I'm not sure what to tell you BigT, you've gone from claiming that I didn't give you constructive criticism to I'm insulting you. Nothing you quoted was an insult, I'm not out to get you, and according to the claims of me and several others in this thread, you did indeed receive constructive criticism.
If all you're going to do is get defensive and claim I've been insulting you, then I'm done here. I didn't come here to get dragged down into an internet debate.
Referring to talking to you on vent as a "phone date"? Calling me "butthurt"? Those aren't insults? Are you serious? I'm not being defensive, you can insult me all you want, I'm just shocked that you really are in such denial... Those are pretty blatant insults lol.
And you didnt give me constructive criticism. Your very first post would have been constructive criticism had you changed one thing. If you would have just listened to what I said and acknowledged that it wasn't the way i was responding to criticism, but in fact was how i was responding to insults, then I would have considered everything you had to say. But instead of you did not, so it made your suggestions completely irrelevant. I'm sorry but you can't tell me my feelings are wrong...
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lmao BigT, I read the reply, so ridiculous tbh, maybe one day you will see for yourself...
1. "I care about opinions of my fans, as long as they agree with me..." is basically what you're saying lol & really dude? That's not caring about opinions of fans, that's simply wanted to only hear things that reinforce your beliefs or that praise you.
2. yes we are now arguing, so saying I did not read your posts and quoting things I disagreed with while saying that I'm wrong because i didnt read you simply saying I'm wrong is ridiculous. I read it, I disagreed, I posed. Hypothetical example:
iokke - you are the one who started this because you could have handled the situation differently
BigT - I did not start this, read
Iokke - If you said simply ty for input all of this would have been avoided, which is what I mean by saying that you started this. If its your thread you have the most responsibility to keep it under control.
BigT - do you people read what I said? I did not start this.. you just dont read the posts wow.
3. "Coming to my thread to post your opinion wtf?" Thread implied opinion posting and discussions, thats why TL is here. Use personal blogs if you do not want any opinions. And yes, I posted on your thread because I wanted you to hear my opinion and to see how you are presenting yourself. If i wanted to bash u'd i'd precisely start a thread focused on bashing you.
4. On the same subject, reason people reply it's because they are people. They get into a conversation/argument, your replies causes them to want to reply, and vice versa. Stop asking why ppl feel the need to do so, they do so because you are on a public forum.
5. Also arguing with opinion is fine, that's how opinions get changed. I used to think Earth was flat when i was a kid, glad someone changed my opinion there.
6. It is possible to start fights in your own thread. Between if you were to accuse us of anything, you could make a much better case for trolling.
7. Posts may have been argumentative, but what I was trying to say that they were not flaming.. I specifically said I do not think you are flaming also (i guess you got confused by me saying that by your definition, if I fit in it, you do just as well... i wasn't out to start a fight as well, u did the most fueling so yeah). Again, I do not think you were flaming.
Btw you urself say that posts do not have to be hostility to be argumentative. Exactly
8. i was not trying to insult you. I did not come here to insult you. Your behavior resulted in a 180 shift of what I would post, and continued behavior resulted in things that you took as straight up insults.
9. "yes its not all lost....hope your just had a rough day" - not even close to an insult, honestly was thinking that. I think everyone that was telling you to take a break was thinking that.
"I put it in bold because I think you angrily skim through my posts" - exactly because getting agitated is a natural thing. And I was hoping u'd do the best thing and end this, since its in your hands more than anyone else's to do it. Obviously bold is not enough.... ah man so much more but im done, what's the point..
BigT, you are the 1% so far.... (though I honestly expected some of your fans/friends to bash me;)) Majority is not always right, true, but still everyone else telling you that you are in the wrong may mean that your opinion was wrong (i know, wow..).
I'll just do what I can to end this on my part and try not to post here, since I got sucked into this 2x lol. Though you had a much better option of ending this discussion at your disposal
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1. That's not what I'm saying at all. Your allowed to disagree with me. Just don't try to force your opinion onto me. Same as religion...
2. Not sure what your getting at here, but your the one who went out of your way to come to my post and share your opinion with me. I didn't ask or provoke you to do so.
3. Your losing sight of the initial argument. I wasn't upset at you for voicing your opinion, I was just noting it was not constructive criticism.
4. You may be right about this. But I just think it's odd that people feel such a strong need to make sure that someone hears their opinion. It just seems like you have to be very weak to need that kind of support in your opinion.
5. Thats not opinion, its fact. Totally different... point i've been trying to make for awhile.
6. I suppose it is possible haha. But in this case I just merely started my thread, believe it or not, with no intentions of starting an argument, yet people just came out of their way from left field to start harassing me.
7. Right and wrong again. I agree that posts do not have to be hostile to be argumentative. And I am not calling you hostile when I say you were flaming. A flamer is merely a person who constantly starts fights on forums or message boards. I wasn't calling you hostile by any means
8. Maybe your intention was not to insult but they came off as insulting. That is something you cannot argue, its an opinion.
9. You were being facetious my friend. Maybe not intentionally, but again, thats the way it came off. Think before you speak, you never know how someone is going to intepret it. And the second quote was just a complete lie about me, and I find complete lies about me insulting. Again, you can't try to tell someone else how to feel.
And it's funny you say that, you had that same decision when you first decided to post at all
Hope that answers all your concerns, let me know if you still have a problem.
PS On July 27 2010 03:42 iokke wrote:
(though I honestly expected some of your fans/friends to bash me;))
Your still poking fun at me lol!
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On July 27 2010 06:57 BigT wrote:
Hope that answers all your concerns, let me know if you still have a problem.
As I and all the others so far realized, there's no point. gl to you
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On July 27 2010 07:45 iokke wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 06:57 BigT wrote:
Hope that answers all your concerns, let me know if you still have a problem.
As I and all the others so far realized, there's no point. gl to you
Did I not answer all your numbered concerns? You still have a problem...? I'm trying to put an end to this O_O*
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some of those answers are really bad, some are ok, I don't see a point of continuing after 5 pages here, plus the second thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=138688¤tpage=2
After I read parts of another thread you created (didnt read the op yet, g2 get ready for work)...
notice how in every reply that mentions something from this thread (aka from people that took time to read this and not only look at your op) even there, people told you basically the same things lol. Again shows that there is no point in continuing, you wont listen anyway, and that's fine, but dragging this conversation on is a waste of everyone's time
edit - I have a better way of putting this BigT
it doesn't matter what I write anymore. I initially posted to say that your behavior/attitude show you in a bad light. It wrote for you to see it and not to prove I am right, and later most people tried to show you why you were wrong for you too correct your mistakes, not to prove themselves online (though to prove they are right to you so that you take that into consideration). In any case, by now:
if I am right obviously you will not listen, if I am wrong obviously you will and should not listen. And its also obvious that if I am wrong, I'm not getting it. End result is the same for all, why go on... I think we can both agree on that
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On July 27 2010 08:02 iokke wrote:some of those answers are really bad, some are ok, I don't see a point of continuing after 5 pages here, plus the second thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=138688¤tpage=2After I read parts of another thread you created (didnt read the op yet, g2 get ready for work)... notice how in every reply that mentions something from this thread (aka from people that took time to read this and not only look at your op) even there, people told you basically the same things lol. Again shows that there is no point in continuing, you wont listen anyway, and that's fine, but dragging this conversation on is a waste of everyone's time edit - I have a better way of putting this BigT it doesn't matter what I write anymore. I initially posted to say that your behavior/attitude show you in a bad light. It wrote for you to see it and not to prove I am right, and later most people tried to show you why you were wrong for you too correct your mistakes, not to prove themselves online. In any case, by now: if I am right obviously you will not listen, if I am wrong obviously you will and should not listen. And its also obvious that if I am wrong, I'm not getting it. End result is the same for all, why go on...
I'm just making sure your satisfied... I'm trying my hardest!
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Not at all but thanks for trying I give up knowing none of us will get anywhere with this (and you are right this is online, we dont know each other, so thats not really a big issue)
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On July 27 2010 08:17 iokke wrote:Not at all but thanks for trying I give up knowing none of us will get anywhere with this (and you are right this is online, we dont know each other, so thats not really a big issue )
Thanks, i appreciate it, you can never prove to someone their opinions, beliefs, or feelings are wrong.
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Speak for yourself. My opinions, beliefs and feelings can be changed and have changed (thank God in some cases) a lot over the course of my life
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On July 27 2010 08:28 iokke wrote:
Speak for yourself. My opinions, beliefs and feelings can be changed and have changed (thank God in some cases) a lot over the course of my life
They changed ultimately because you changed them, not someone else.
EDIT: I think I mispoke, I apologize. Let me rephrase that. You can never tell someone what their opinions, beliefs, or feelings really are. Yes thats better. I agree they can be changed sorry, but ultimately it is you who changed them not someone else.
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Unless brainwashing is involved:D Seriously though, of course ultimately you change them, but often based on what others have said or done
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On July 27 2010 08:39 iokke wrote:
Unless brainwashing is involved:D Seriously though, of course ultimately you change them, but often based on what others have said or done
Well yes, unless brainwashing is involved, but I haven't seen you attempt any brainwashing techniques thus far  And No arguments there, people can definitely influence them.
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Replay pack of my games thus far!
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On July 28 2010 14:07 BigT wrote:
Replay pack of my games thus far!
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tyvm BigT keep them coming :D
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Replay pack 2 coming at ya!
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EPT
