EPTThe Netherlands Euro 2012! - Page 4
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18459 Posts
EDIT: and yeah, my profile says Spain, but I'm actually Dutch. | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
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TheConquereer
Spain183 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13426 Posts
On June 18 2012 04:22 Roflhaxx wrote: Wow, really? Netherlands defence is so bad :| Have they never heard about offside traps before? Maybe actually do it instead of letting ronaldo get the ball? At least the ref is calling all potential fouls on portugal and letting the Netherlands run their ball atm | ||
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Asshat
593 Posts
On June 18 2012 04:31 TheConquereer wrote: Portugal deserved 1 more goal imo If all "clear" chances went in, Portugal'd be winning 3-1, maybe 4-1. | ||
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Brow23
Germany105 Posts
On June 18 2012 02:34 Brow23 wrote: I hope Ronaldo finishes Holland and sends them home, finally! But don't be sad, you would, no matter what, got crushed in the Semis.  My hope came true! RONALDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
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jxx
Brazil307 Posts
I honestly cannot believe this.  | ||
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HadesCP
Canada98 Posts
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Malaz
Germany1257 Posts
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Lysteria
France2280 Posts
Well, not exactly, i didn't expect them to be behind Denmark. | ||
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Brow23
Germany105 Posts
![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/179995_382994088426179_1925273445_n.jpg) | ||
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
There has been a great deal of criticism of Bert van Marwijk in the Dutch press, and certainly he deserves some blame because it is his task get the team to perform their best, but I feel the lions share of the blame falls solely on the players. There is only so much a coach can do, and in the end, the players need to follow his instructions and perform on the field themselves. The simple fact is that the team was lazy, arrogant and mentally frail. The defensive failures of this team was not the inadequacy of a few individuals (though many like to blame Willems for example), it was the inadequacy of the team as a whole. The amount of space between the lines was horrific and the amount of time and space allowed to opponents right outside the Dutch penalty box was even worse. The lines need to play much closer together, in both attack and defense. If Holland has the ball, the back line needs to push up so that there is not acres of space for the opponent to run in to if we lose possession. The back line was too afraid to push up and that caused a lot of problems for the as a whole because it forced our attacking players to track back by inane amounts to try and stymie a counter or to help recover the ball. That brings me to my second problem defensively. There was zero pressure applied to opponents when they had the ball. They were given all the freedom in the world to try and measure a perfect through ball for their strikers, and happily did so on several occasions. Both German goals and the first Portuguese goal could have been prevented by simply applying pressure on the man with the ball. Instead, the Dutch watched and suffered. Watching the ball, and running back with the attacker became ever more common for Holland rather then committing to a duel to try and win the ball back and it was terrible to watch. Only Nijel de Jong was capable of winning his duels and recovering the ball with any regularity. These are simple footballing rules and I can guarantee you that this is not a coaching error, but rather a case of players being to lazy or disinterested to follow instructions. Finally, in all three games, Holland started fairly positively, for 20 minutes against both Denmark and Germany, and for 10 against Portugal. As soon as they suffered a set back however, the team completely capitulated. In none of the three games were they able to recover from conceding a goal. It is shocking how mentally weak this team was. They deserved completely to lose and be booted from Euro2012. What will happen now is anybody's guess. Bert van Marwijk is contracted until 2016, but after this disastrous tournament he may be fired or he may resign. I think it will depend on what exactly happened between the players and the coach at Euro2012. Many reports are surfacing of various cases of infighting in the Dutch camp. Huntelaar was apparently threatened to be ejected from the hotel if he didn't shut his mouth and there are also reports of cliques forming around Robin van Persie and Wesley Sneijder (no surprise there). It is also reported that Robben screamed at the coach to 'shut his damn mouth' when he beseeched him to track back to help defend (in fairness to Robben, he frequently did track back, yet got no support in the attack) and that seems unacceptable to me. If the KNVB feels that Bert van Marwijk still has control of the team and he still wants to coach it for the WC2014 then I think he will stay on. I personally don't disagree with his tactics after watching this tournament conclude, but he absolutely needs to adjust his personnel. He needs to resolve the issues between the players, and if they cannot be resolved (seems likely) discard some of the old guard, even if it is the likes of Sneijder or RvP. Furthermore, he needs to give a chance to many of the younger players or some players that are currently on the bench. In my opinion, Kevin Strootman could have been a fine compromise between Mark van Bommel and Rafa van de Vaart. Strootman can defend and recover the ball (unlike VdV) and still has the ability to push the ball forward, yet he was not utilized once this tournament. In this regard, Bert needs to do better. If it were up to me for WC2014 I would continue to form a team around these 4 players : Wesley Sneijder Robin van Persie Arjen Robben Nijel de Jong I would drop these players immediately : Rafael van de Vaart Klaas-Jan Huntelaar Mark van Bommel I would look to complete the midfield and attack with some of (though not limited to)the following players : Ibrahim Afellay (as a midfielder, not a winger) Kevin Strootman Eljero Elia Jordy Clasie Ola John Adam Maher Luciano Narsingh Vurnon Anita (as a midfielder, not a left back) Luuk de jong (or another young striker to back up RvP) The back 4 is up in the air in my opinion. They looked terrible in this tournament but a lot of the blame can be given to the team rather then just the back 4. However, there is certainly room for improvement and in addition to what we already have there may be a number of other options available : Ricardo van Rhijn (right back) Stefan de Vrij (central defender) Urby Emmanualson (left winger, maybe can shift to left back) Douglas (central defender) Erick Pieters (left back, injured this euro2012) Nick Viergever (central defender) There are many more players Holland could try in the defense. None of them stand out as splendid options right now but I think it will be necessary to try them out and perhaps we get lucky and find someone that really steps up and clicks with the team. It is going to have to look at youth in this regard. To conclude, the national team put in an embarrassing display this tournament, not really because the tactics were all wrong, but because they didn't follow instructions properly and were lazy when things didn't go their way. There are significant issues within the team spirit and that needs to be fixed for the next challenge (WC2014) by any means necessary. Some of the core of these team will still be excellent footballers in the tail end of their prime and will be utilized, while some youngsters will hopefully be ready to take on a starting role in the team to replace our older players. It's hard to say if Bert van Marwijk will be residing over that job (it's hard to really see who could replace him) after this debacle but personally I hope he stays and helps rebuild the team. I think he is a good coach, and his past success' speak for itself. He is pragmatic and I think he can do a good job if some of the old guard are still willing to work with him. | ||
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Retric
Germany284 Posts
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
On June 20 2012 03:01 Retric wrote: hmm Robben, van persie, sneijder will be 30+ years old in 2014 They will all be 30 years old yes. Their last tournament where they will be at the top of their game in my opinion. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands4020 Posts
-- Vorm Rhijn - Vrij - Viergever - Emanuelson Anita - Sneijder - Strootman Narsingh - Persie - Robben Personally, I think we need to change formation too. 4-2-3-1 is too lame, 4-1-2-3 (german) is better, 4-3-3 is the good old dutch winger style, but 3-4-3 (cruijffian) would be awesome too. As he says: If you're not good at something, you shouldn't do it. | ||
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Pantagruel
United States1427 Posts
A lot of reports are coming out of the Dutch press (no doubt half of them are completely unfounded or half-truths) that bring to light some of the problems within the team. Huntelaar especially but also Van de Vaart apparently caused a big stink about not being in the basis and the coach get incredibly fed up with it, to the point of threatening to send Huntelaar back home. Other reports coming out : Gregory van der Wiel was apparently more interested in his new clothing line and his music then in football. He rarely spoke to the rest of the team and they were irritated by that. Mark van Bommel was not respected as captain of the team and was snidely referred to as "assisstant-coach", no doubt in reference to the fact that he is van Marwijk's son in law. Afellay was outrageously arrogant because he plays (haha...) at Barcelona. He was heard asking in a mocking tone "Where do you play?". Robin van Persie too was arrogant repeatedly saying how he was the best player in the premier league. Johnny Heitinga leaked information about the team to his wife who is a journalist in an effort to help her land a job with RTL. I also read that there were two cliques that formed behind Wesley Sneijder and Robin van Persie. Sneijder group wanted to play more traditional Dutch football while the van Persie group preferred to play with van Marwijk's style. Wesley Sneijder was apparently the only player who tried to mediate all the dissent within the group and really cared about winning the Euro2012. Now, I take all this with a grain of salt since most of this information comes from Johan Derksen at Voebal International, but I do believe there is a core of truth to a lot of these accusations, and this really showed on the field. Holland looked uninterested and disorganized, and ultimately, mentally frail. This would seem to indicate some serious issues within the team. I guess it's just like old times. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
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