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On March 20 2011 06:17 Bulkers wrote:
I got a question, I read this topic as carefully as I can and there is this:
"If the disconnecting player had the game absolutely won then we will rule it a win for the disconnecting player."
Then there are 3 Pannel members saying
Nazgul: "A huge advantage however is not enough for an "absolute" win"
Morrow: "I think Nightend would been able to save his 3rd base and let the game go on..."
Then this rule to award Boxer should not be taken under consideration. Otherwise we will see everyone dc'ing after winning huge battle...
Also big question why players that take part in this tournament are taken to panel, I can understand Cloud, Nazgul but all the rest are playing in this tournament and that is there is a big chance that Morrow will face the winner of this game in Ro8. Imo Panel member should be take from pros out of "circle of interests"
I got to say TL.net is doing great job with this post, its very hard decision, and I admire how professional this trying to be. Sure, Boxer was ahead by far, but still I don't think win was "absolute" and 100% won for Boxer.
just stop posting. it's great how you take little snippets from their analysis completely disregarding the context.
yeah you missed this obviously:
"All three approved panel members said this game was "absolutely won""
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this thread alone shows just how professional the TSL truly is.
I only have one suggestion: don't have tournament players in the panel. It will just lead to discussions about how they made their decision in order to manipulate the brackets to their favour. In this case it was no problem, because it was really obvious, but if there's a tighter decision in the future, there might be a lot of rage about it.
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Given the statement produced by NightEnd and his team, I worry that the result is a foregone conclusion, why make a arguably provocative statement like that if you end up ultimately not being hurt by the decision. Hopefully that isn't the case.
Regardless, I question the release of information, in particular, a statement from the team and player prior to the completion of the series. A little patience and allowance for the finishing of the series would to me seem the smart route to take.
Otherwise I think it has been handled wonderfully.
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United States1681 Posts
There really isn't a way to avoid conflict of interest in this situation. I agree it should be minimized but there will always be an issue with the panel members' race (T,Z,P), nationality (foreigner vs Korean), and team. The veto system is obviously in place to mitigate this problem, but it'll always exist as the panel is going to be human for the foreseeable future.
Another thing to take into account is that the panel should always include elite players or well respected members of the community, and elite players will generally be part of the tournament, so there's no real way to avoid it. Not to mention you need people to AGREE to be part of the panel, and that limits selection even further. This was the best way I could think of to handle the situation, and the fact that both players agreed to make it a panel decision only bolsters my confidence in the handling of the situation.
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Great process of deciding the result. Thanks for keeping us informed. Fantastic tournament!
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On March 20 2011 06:23 rycho wrote:
really terrific job with this unfortunate situation, thanks you to everyone that put their hard work into this
nothing to add...right decision!
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On March 20 2011 06:23 Kazzabiss wrote:
How could you veto TYLER?!?!?
Well Tyler could face either of these players in the bracket so his decision is potentially biased.
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On March 20 2011 06:17 Bulkers wrote:
I got a question, I read this topic as carefully as I can and there is this:
"If the disconnecting player had the game absolutely won then we will rule it a win for the disconnecting player."
Then there are 3 Pannel members saying
Nazgul: "A huge advantage however is not enough for an "absolute" win"
Morrow: "I think Nightend would been able to save his 3rd base and let the game go on..."
Then this rule to award Boxer should not be taken under consideration. Otherwise we will see everyone dc'ing after winning huge battle...
Also big question why players that take part in this tournament are taken to panel, I can understand Cloud, Nazgul but all the rest are playing in this tournament and that is there is a big chance that Morrow will face the winner of this game in Ro8. Imo Panel member should be take from pros out of "circle of interests"
I got to say TL.net is doing great job with this post, its very hard decision, and I admire how professional this trying to be. Sure, Boxer was ahead by far, but still I don't think win was "absolute" and 100% won for Boxer.
There's a reason their explanations don't end after what you've quoted. If you read on, you'll see exactly why each of the judges did think that the game was 100% over at that point, even though the game may have dragged on for some time after the time of disconnect. It's also important to note that as such a decision is very difficult to make at this level of play, it's hard to find people knowledgeable enough to make such a decision -- that's why there are going to be panel members drawn from the tournament itself as they represent the highest level of foreigner play.
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Professionally handled guys, did the community proud. Just might want to indicate that panel members came to their conclusions without communicating with eachother (something I'd assume given all the other professional aspects of the production). Super well done guys. Made by far the best of a bad situation. To Nightend and Prae, sorry about the situation but if you have no comment, then have no comment. No need for petty parting shots
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Really commendable response from TL. I really enjoyed reading the thorough analysis from the pros. Really terrible response from Praetoriani. Their comment of "no comment" is just passive aggressive and really pathetic. I would understand if they said they disagreed with the decision, but to say that you disagree but you think it's pointless to say that you disagree is... pointless.
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fair decsion. but i can still see the prae players being dissappointed
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Very well done TeamLiquid. Although in this particular instance the decision was not too hard to make with the giant advantage boxer had, this transparency and the clear professionalism with which you handled the situation are very commendable.
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The best part is the transparency TL showed by saying that, despite the 2 members being vetoed, Cloud would have voted for a regame. They could have easily omitted that and avoided more flack, but chose not to do so in order have all of the facts on the table.
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Seems like a fair process. Obviously there's gonna be boxer-bias accusations, but that's just stupid. One thing I would like to suggest is that players in tsl3 should NOT be on such a panel for tsl3. Just common sense. Don't think that was a problem here.. but just a good standard to have imo.
It's not like it would be a problem to get some other people of similar caliber.
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Regardless of the decision, you guys handled it very well. I like the transparency and thorough explanation.
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I think, as unlucky as this situation is, it was handled 100% perfectly - you'll never be able to make everyone happy and the way you guys did it, I agree completely.
What I like the most is the full transparency. It's not like "hey, we had a secret vote, just gotta believe us, we know we are right". No, you reveal the people responsible for the decision, and, furthermore, you reveal their reasoning behind it. Big props to all of you involved in resolving this.
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On March 20 2011 06:22 Catch]22 wrote:
Yeah, it's not like anyone would cheat at dreamhack or artificially inflate his stats to qualify to TSL2, everyone here is honest.
Pretty sure those players aren't in TSL3.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 20 2011 06:17 Bulkers wrote:
I got a question, I read this topic as carefully as I can and there is this:
"If the disconnecting player had the game absolutely won then we will rule it a win for the disconnecting player."
Then there are 3 Pannel members saying
Nazgul: "A huge advantage however is not enough for an "absolute" win"
Morrow: "I think Nightend would been able to save his 3rd base and let the game go on..."
Then this rule to award Boxer should not be taken under consideration. Otherwise we will see everyone dc'ing after winning huge battle... Read further into the explanations. A large advantage alone is not enough to award a game, but this was not simply a large advantage. Because Nightend didn't have any Citidel or Templar tech and had only 1 Robo, there was just no way stalkers/zealots would overcome marauders/marines/medivacs on their own.
Also big question why players that take part in this tournament are taken to panel, I can understand Cloud, Nazgul but all the rest are playing in this tournament and that is there is a big chance that Morrow will face the winner of this game in Ro8. Imo Panel member should be take from pros out of "circle of interests"
I can understand that. I would only guess (I'm only a spectator too) that it was a combination of players available on a moment's notice and based on an evaluation of their actual game knowledge. What I mean by that is that there are lots of highly ranked players who don't understand the game as well as the players on that panel. Nony, MC and MorroW might have an interest but they also demonstrate the absolute highest game knowledge available today.
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good job on this guys, very professional.
i know its hard in these grey areas
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EPT
