We've had several threads with suggestions for the next league (e.g. swiss system), but I think it would make most sense to have a thread filled with suggestions that most people agree on.
Obviously what most people want to see is as many games with video coverage as possible, including the qualifiers. I guess it's impossible to have that for every game, but you could make a poll which matches people would love to see the most and probably show 4 games or sth in ro32.
I'd love to see a TSL1 best of when your video coverage is starting. Nobody knows when you plan to broadcast TSL2 and it might be too late, but a ~5 minute video with the best scenes would be great.
The finals were really short and the ending was abrupt. An analysis of the final games would have been neat.
This might create technical difficulties, but what I'd really love to hear is the opinion of players right after the games. If you managed to have an audio interview with some of the players that would be great.
Bring back the probe, it's so cute.
That's all I can think of for now, let's see what you can come up with.
# This might create technical difficulties, but what I'd really love to hear is the opinion of players right after the games. If you managed to have an audio interview with some of the players that would be great.
iirc, didn't a couple players actually come online to vent after the braodcasts and talk about what they were feeling, etc? I know for sure Nony did so.
- yeah, audio interviews (if possible) after ro4, and also an interview at the end with the winner. - take out longinus plz - broadcast the round of 32 if it doesn't take too much time. just the ro32 was boring, after the ladder stage and everything i couldn't force myself to watch a lot of the replays without the commentary
also, I wanna see an SCV. also, yeah in your intro put in some clips of the previous TSL. also when you introduce a player, maybe have a little like sequence where you show highlights of the guy's previous games from TSL1 or maybe even from other tournaments like Ascension (basically anything that has commentary and you can get permission to use).
* Obviously what most people want to see is as many games with video coverage as possible, including the qualifiers. I guess it's impossible to have that for every game, but you could make a poll which matches people would love to see the most and probably show 4 games or sth in ro32.
someone brought up the idea last season of a replay night. with so many games during the qualifiers, there should be one broadcast highlighting the better games. the commentary doesnt necessarily have to be as if it were live, but it could be casual and insightful
* I'd love to see a TSL1 best of when your video coverage is starting. Nobody knows when you plan to broadcast TSL2 and it might be too late, but a ~5 minute video with the best scenes would be great.
going off this idea, maybe do a top ten or top five plays from the previous round, with each quick segment shown between matches or games
* The finals were really short and the ending was abrupt. An analysis of the final games would have been neat.
agreed. it needed better closure, especially after something that spanned over two months
someone brought up the idea last season of a replay night. with so many games during the qualifiers, there should be one broadcast highlighting the better games. the commentary doesnt necessarily have to be as if it were live, but it could be casual and insightful
This was in the works but due to one or two incidents it didn't eventuate... we'll try again this season though
Just want to point out that I worked hard last TSL to do audio commentaries on as many of the qualification games as possible. I'll also be commentating on qualification games for TSL2 and encouraging other commentators to do this as well. There was a big thread and everything.
I don't know if you guys can make it but to be able to show FP view every now and then (like in MSL, OSL and so on) would be amazing :p (Alternatives: have a FP stream, release FPVODs afterwards.
May as well put this here, What i'd love to see would be a poll of who is going to win the match for the first 3~5 minutes of the game similar to what the MSL had. Give us something to look at during the slower part of the match of course its a live poll, with a link to vote from tl
Replay night is a great idea imo. having the 10 best reps per week was pretty good, but it didn't feel very interactive with the whole audience..
Suggestions: - timing of the event...plz no more during exam seasons, I'm sure the organizers, staffs, etc. have more time during the summer vacation than any other times.. This is also true for the players.. :D
- one liners from players before matches. eg. "watch out for my cheese jf"
- "show matches", perhaps a matchup that people really wanted to see didn't really happen last season, maybe there can be a poll to see which matchup ppl really wanna see, and make that happen during qualification stage for bonus points, or maybe 20 dollars in cash, pride, whatever... eg. I think a lot of people wanted to see a Draco vs Mondragon matchup...
- a side tournament (maybe ums) for those of lesser skilled players for prizes too..This'll probably interest those players who don't play competitively, or just those who play couple games a week for fun.
To all the people suggesting we stream more: The organizers, technical staff, observers and casters pretty much gave up most of their weekends for a month. It's hard to ask them to give up more.
On July 08 2008 13:15 Showtime! wrote: Vaul always appreciated your efforts. TY
I should get a mike myself. I'm sure I'd be good at it too, but I don't have a sexy accent like Vaul or a broadcaster's voice like Artosis.
Only thing I have to add is, please, please, make the finals a Bo7.
Bo5 is a perfect compromise between fair play and excitement. Bo7 is too long in my eyes.
I object, bo7 is the more worth for a final and the audience wants to have as many games as possible to watch. How is are two more games making it too long and boring? Korean finals are also bo7 and I am sure we can hold the excitement at least as long as they can.
On July 08 2008 13:15 Showtime! wrote: Vaul always appreciated your efforts. TY
I should get a mike myself. I'm sure I'd be good at it too, but I don't have a sexy accent like Vaul or a broadcaster's voice like Artosis.
Only thing I have to add is, please, please, make the finals a Bo7.
Bo5 is a perfect compromise between fair play and excitement. Bo7 is too long in my eyes.
I object, bo7 is the more worth for a final and the audience wants to have as many games as possible to watch. How is are two more games making it too long and boring? Korean finals are also bo7 and I am sure we can hold the excitement at least as long as they can.
There was one bo7 in history and the extra game was of no better quality - infact the players were noticeably tired..
On July 08 2008 13:15 Showtime! wrote: Vaul always appreciated your efforts. TY
I should get a mike myself. I'm sure I'd be good at it too, but I don't have a sexy accent like Vaul or a broadcaster's voice like Artosis.
Only thing I have to add is, please, please, make the finals a Bo7.
Bo5 is a perfect compromise between fair play and excitement. Bo7 is too long in my eyes.
I object, bo7 is the more worth for a final and the audience wants to have as many games as possible to watch. How is are two more games making it too long and boring? Korean finals are also bo7 and I am sure we can hold the excitement at least as long as they can.
Cool, I'll just make up stuff to support my arguments too.
TSL needs more ninjas and random live bear attacks because that's what makes Korean finals so great.
On July 08 2008 13:15 Showtime! wrote: Vaul always appreciated your efforts. TY
I should get a mike myself. I'm sure I'd be good at it too, but I don't have a sexy accent like Vaul or a broadcaster's voice like Artosis.
Only thing I have to add is, please, please, make the finals a Bo7.
Bo5 is a perfect compromise between fair play and excitement. Bo7 is too long in my eyes.
I actually felt that watching multiple Bo5 matches in a row were a bit long. The finals should definitely be Bo5 but I might consider reducing the preceding matches down to Bo3.
I hope in TSL2 you will be able to have the cheerfuls from the cheerful thread on the stream (I remember someone said it kept causing the stream to crash last time :\). I hope you guys can fix that!
I think BO5 for semi and final was the best choice and should not be changed, I will stand as representing the "silent majority" which Nixon alluded to, because I think this is what he was talking about.
On July 12 2008 13:08 Tudazul wrote: I want to see chinese players like Lx, Pj and F91.
This too, I know it didn't work out but I hope in the next TSL that is not the case. They obviously have enough talent to change the course of the TSL, perhaps not the winner, but perhaps yes the winner.
Chaos launcher has a plugin that allows you to hit the control groups for a player in the replay and it will select the units that the player had grouped on that number at that point in the game. That's not 'first person' but it's a handy tool that admin might consider involving in the cast somehow, since they are replays after all.
On July 09 2008 08:20 asel wrote: Dont show only the replays of the winner, people can recognize who won the series with this :x
This is a myth, we tested it.
On July 11 2008 13:21 Ideas wrote: I hope in TSL2 you will be able to have the cheerfuls from the cheerful thread on the stream (I remember someone said it kept causing the stream to crash last time :\). I hope you guys can fix that!
Yeah it was amazing how a simple thing cuase so many problems. We will try again.
On July 10 2008 20:56 Schnake wrote: I object, bo7 is the more worth for a final and the audience wants to have as many games as possible to watch. How is are two more games making it too long and boring? Korean finals are also bo7 and I am sure we can hold the excitement at least as long as they can.
No they aren't, don't just make up shit to prove a point.
On July 08 2008 13:15 Showtime! wrote: Vaul always appreciated your efforts. TY
I should get a mike myself. I'm sure I'd be good at it too, but I don't have a sexy accent like Vaul or a broadcaster's voice like Artosis.
Only thing I have to add is, please, please, make the finals a Bo7.
Bo5 is a perfect compromise between fair play and excitement. Bo7 is too long in my eyes.
I object, bo7 is the more worth for a final and the audience wants to have as many games as possible to watch. How is are two more games making it too long and boring? Korean finals are also bo7 and I am sure we can hold the excitement at least as long as they can.
Cool, I'll just make up stuff to support my arguments too.
TSL needs more ninjas and random live bear attacks because that's what makes Korean finals so great.
Totally right of course. What we need to do is put the finalists in a cage with an angry bear, a katana, and a computer running BW. The winner is the player that kills the bear (they each have their own cage and their own bear), and also wins the bo5. The eventual champion will be crowned the ninja Starcraft champion of the world, second in rank to only Bisu, the ninja champion of Aiur.
FP view would be really cool, although it seems impractical to implement. What we really need is less PvP. This can be solved by trying to find the worst map for toss ever, and using only that :p
"I want to see chinese players like Lx, Pj and F91." - I totally agree. While I can see why no Koreans are allowed, it would simply add to the credibility of the tournament. The winner could really claim to be the best SC player out of Korea atm.
"replays>vod's" - actually, I beg to disagree. While replays are great, nothing beats a well-commentated vod. Except for a well-commentated live stream, of course...
I totally dug the event. Especially the art and graphics team was brilliant. It would be even better if we had even more hype - maybe extra hype movies before the finals? Maybe polls that would be commented on ingame from round of 32 onwards? Definitely I'd love to hear/read more from the players, from the losers, too. It would have been nice to see Mondy interviewed directly after the upset on teamliquid, for example.
I think everyone did a fantastic job. There's always room for amelioration, though (player webcam stream included in the live stream like in the Korean leagues, anyone?)
Since the vods are hosted on youtube this information might be useful to the tsl staff, allowing for higher quality vods. I found a good explanation of how to do this on a forum (link)
In short this will allow the tsl videos to be higher quality mp4 videos rather then the normal youtube flash versions.
1) I'd like to see more interviews for sure. I think audio interviews over vent or even skype would be greatly appreciated by everyone. I think the winner should definitely be interviewed via webcam and skype, perhaps at length. Maybe even include a talk through of the finals with him? That would rock.
2) Although switching to the FP view of the player in game might be problematic (with my fair understanding of how you guys streamed TSL), it might be cool to release FPVODs after the game. I for one would love to see Draco or JF's FPVODs from the finals. Of course, this would depend on the players' computers, and how they handled fraps or camtasia I guess.
3) It would be great, from an organiser's point of view, to make the TSL a sort of pseudo-qualification tournament for Courage or something? Maybe sponsor the winner to go to Korea (if he/she wants) and try to qualify for pro-status? Maybe eSTRO (Idra) or CJ (Testie?) would be interested in trying a top foreigner every season. Again, the understanding would be no guarantees, but a shot at making it pro? I guess that's long term though, so please don't flame me for thinking big.
4) For the finals, it would be awesome if TLers all over the world got together to in groups to watch it, and streams of these gatherings were fed in the run up to it, and between games. It would create atmosphere, and help build hype (not that you need much more hype, but still). I know people get together to watch the OSL/MSL/PL finals, so it would just be a matter of setting up a webcam at some of these places. Also will increase lulz on IRC, methinks? Again, this would create stream complications, but nothing R1CH and crew cant handle I think.
In conclusion, let me just say that TSL1 was fantastic, and that TL can only go up from here. I hope at least some of these suggestions helped, and look forward to a cracker TSL2.
On July 10 2008 20:56 Schnake wrote: I object, bo7 is the more worth for a final and the audience wants to have as many games as possible to watch. How is are two more games making it too long and boring? Korean finals are also bo7 and I am sure we can hold the excitement at least as long as they can.
Individual player tournaments are not proleague. (Which is where I assume he got the bo7 idea from.)
I'm sure we can recruit a bunch of over enthusiastic (but still relatively knowledgeable) outgoing casters...just like those epic MBC commentators. TL has a lot of crazy suppressed personalities that want to just freak out.
Probably won't be for everyone, but I'd just like TSL2 to experiment with this. Just a little. Please?
On November 27 2008 03:09 Not_Computer wrote: I suggest...
SCREAMCASTING!!! RAAAAAAAAASDLFJASDFL!!!!
I'm sure we can recruit a bunch of over enthusiastic (but still relatively knowledgeable) outgoing casters...just like those epic MBC commentators. TL has a lot of crazy suppressed personalities that want to just freak out.
Probably won't be for everyone, but I'd just like TSL2 to experiment with this. Just a little. Please?
Maybe they can have some people try it, and then the best caster gets a chance to help cast the tsl? although between tasteless, artosis, and chill, I don't think that the next tsl is going to need much help with casting.
is there going to be a second tsl? Whats the status? I know there won't be a second season without sponsors, but the 10.000 $ from last season were way to much, the money should have been enough for two or three seasons...
On December 03 2008 05:42 arctics86 wrote: is there going to be a second tsl? Whats the status? I know there won't be a second season without sponsors, but the 10.000 $ from last season were way to much, the money should have been enough for two or three seasons...
Theres no way we're ever doing it again. Like you said we blew all the money
On December 03 2008 05:42 arctics86 wrote: is there going to be a second tsl? Whats the status? I know there won't be a second season without sponsors, but the 10.000 $ from last season were way to much, the money should have been enough for two or three seasons...
heh if money was the only issue we'd be doing a TSL every two months. its an immense project for staff to run and there are many issues outside simple funding. in fact sponsorship is probably the easiest part.
On December 03 2008 05:42 arctics86 wrote: is there going to be a second tsl? Whats the status? I know there won't be a second season without sponsors, but the 10.000 $ from last season were way to much, the money should have been enough for two or three seasons...
Theres no way we're ever doing it again. Like you said we blew all the money
This wasn't meant to be offensive! I just thought that the money is one key problem, and sc tournaments like ESL MS are running pretty well with prize money less than 1000 Euro...
The amount of work which goes into a single broadcast is staggering, and can't really be appreciated until you've done one. The TSL is full on, and the biggest issue we have is the fact that staff are human.
On December 07 2008 09:02 Plexa wrote: The amount of work which goes into a single broadcast is staggering, and can't really be appreciated until you've done one. The TSL is full on, and the biggest issue we have is the fact that staff are human.
Instead of the Bo7 finals idea, how about a TSL All Stars after the finals where the top 12 players or so and slam them into two teams and have a team battle for fun (just like the ProLeague All Stars match).
TSL1 was excellent, better than watching Korean SC in many respects. My only slight gripe was the sound levels of some of the commentary. You had one guy who was really clear and loud and then the second guy was really quiet. Could some kind of normalization be performed to clear this up. Persuade Tasteless to do a guest commentary would be cool, on a Pandabearguy map.
"This might create technical difficulties, but what I'd really love to hear is the opinion of players right after the games. If you managed to have an audio interview with some of the players that would be great."
The language is a serious problem some people are not polyglots.
If I remember right, I think there was a vote your favorite starcraft caster competition last time, then the person who won got to help cast. Props to whoever thought up that idea, I would deffinitely like to see a repeat of that agian.
that and there is already 3 foreign events going on... SCL, ESWC asian masters or w/e, and the ESL. My professional opinion is TSL2 after these, and i base that on absolutely nothing.
Hm I wish there were a way for the larger community to help... but obviously we can't help you guys cast or set up streams. Kind of a pity, I'm sure so many of us would want to contribute to show our appreciation =/
Oh god, now im listening to RiseAgainstTheMachine - Prayer of the refugee, and rememebring that TSL intro and the whole TeamliquidStarleague...god i miss it so much =/
On March 30 2009 04:32 wwooaa wrote: Oh god, now im listening to RiseAgainstTheMachine - Prayer of the refugee, and rememebring that TSL intro and the whole TeamliquidStarleague...god i miss it so much =/
This made me lol just cause you mixed it up. It's Rise Against - Prayer Of The Refugee. You were thinking of Rage Against The Machine.
On March 25 2009 16:31 xhuwin wrote: Hm I wish there were a way for the larger community to help... but obviously we can't help you guys cast or set up streams. Kind of a pity, I'm sure so many of us would want to contribute to show our appreciation =/
help spread the word and such more, if you want to help out with TSL or any TeamLiquid event or even just spread more about Team Liquid.
Since this survived the purge, I assume it's okay to bump it...
I assume you guys already have some way of dealing with the mid-ladder ICCUP reset, so I won't mention that. My suggestions are pretty simple: As much replay availability as possible, as much coverage as possible (especially live commentary from such awesome people as Day[9]), and a recommended-VODs-of-recent-games style thread (or site function?) for replays from the ladder portion of the festivities. I assume the later TSL2 matches will be in liquibet and the TLPD (and that relevant topics will be in liquipedia, if we-the-userbase help out sufficiently)? It would also be nice if we could have newspost coverage starting as early as the ladder section, perhaps with a format similar to the weekly Fantasy Proleague coverage (interviews with players who are doing well or otherwise interesting, a table displaying the current leaders, et cetera). Oh, and if there will be torrents of VODs/replay packs on the tracker, I have a dedicated server with a pretty nice connection that could probably help seed.
Incredibly hyped for this, and I'm sure you guys will do a great job, rock on!
It might be difficult to fathom somone who doesn't watch all of the matches live, or the vods directly afterwards, but what do you TSL2 guys think of making an equivalent to ESPN Sports Center every day or so (similar to Artosis' week in review) during the TSL? It would probably require a team of 1-2 experts who would talk about what happened in the previous games, and one to two tech people to put it together? Not sure of course it's entirely up to you.
Maybe a little bit like a TSL-themed version of Backseet Broodwar in video or at least audio form (video form would be cooler though :3).
What about making videos of the pimpest plays of every round? So ppl who don't have time to watch all the vods can watch this videos instead. There can be a poll or something to decide what games to include.
On November 08 2009 23:28 micronesia wrote: It might be difficult to fathom somone who doesn't watch all of the matches live, or the vods directly afterwards, but what do you TSL2 guys think of making an equivalent to ESPN Sports Center every day or so (similar to Artosis' week in review) during the TSL? It would probably require a team of 1-2 experts who would talk about what happened in the previous games, and one to two tech people to put it together? Not sure of course it's entirely up to you.
Maybe a little bit like a TSL-themed version of Backseet Broodwar in video or at least audio form (video form would be cooler though :3).
I wonder if the Broodwar Highlights team would be up to the task.
Hey, so since iccup will be extending this season for 2 weeks, things shoudl be great! I was just hoping to see at least a few of the games casted by the 2 most popular casters, perhaps a poll can be made. I would love to see tasteles!
I don't know if this has been brought to attention yet but I just had someone drop vs me at the end of the game so it came to mind.
There should be some monitoring of the way complaints are handled. They can be used to boost rank considerably. ie: I have 4 guys drops vs me from the time i rank up from D to B, then I report those 4 games and get boosted to B+ for games I won at far lower levels.
Perhaps a rule that you should report complaints immediately after they occur.
On November 22 2009 16:13 Jonoman92 wrote: I don't know if this has been brought to attention yet but I just had someone drop vs me at the end of the game so it came to mind.
There should be some monitoring of the way complaints are handled. They can be used to boost rank considerably. ie: I have 4 guys drops vs me from the time i rank up from D to B, then I report those 4 games and get boosted to B+ for games I won at far lower levels.
Perhaps a rule that you should report complaints immediately after they occur.
On November 24 2009 03:07 niteReloaded wrote: I think the TSL team should consider the possibility of including the Resolution Plugin into their broadcast arsenal.
The hope about this in my heart will never die, and I'm just waiting for the first tournament to make this step.
It wouldn't be hard to implement if the games will be casted from replays.
p.s. I didn't watch a single replay in normal mode ever since I DLed the Resolution Hack.
It's buggy, no? I've heard it crashes randomly (but never used it myself).
On November 24 2009 03:07 niteReloaded wrote: I think the TSL team should consider the possibility of including the Resolution Plugin into their broadcast arsenal.
The hope about this in my heart will never die, and I'm just waiting for the first tournament to make this step.
It wouldn't be hard to implement if the games will be casted from replays.
p.s. I didn't watch a single replay in normal mode ever since I DLed the Resolution Hack.
It's buggy, no? I've heard it crashes randomly (but never used it myself).
try it.
There were two versions, the first one was no where near goon enough to be even considered for something like this. But the second one is very very good, feels almost like an in game thing.
If you guys talk about it, and give me a hint that you'll seriously consider it, I can try to contact the author myself to fix a few minor bugs. (hooking him up with ~$100 and a few mentions in the casts could make it his personal mission to give a quality product to the community.)
And you Chill, just watch some of these recent pro reps in high resolution. 640x480 might still be best for playing, but for casting, this is the real thing.
I was hoping OGN or MBC would make their own versions of it, and then "Zoom out" as the big battle approaches. (kinda like what they do with switching between 1st person and normal observing) The crowd would go wild.
On November 24 2009 03:07 niteReloaded wrote: I think the TSL team should consider the possibility of including the Resolution Plugin into their broadcast arsenal.
The hope about this in my heart will never die, and I'm just waiting for the first tournament to make this step.
It wouldn't be hard to implement if the games will be casted from replays.
p.s. I didn't watch a single replay in normal mode ever since I DLed the Resolution Hack.
It's buggy, no? I've heard it crashes randomly (but never used it myself).
try it.
There were two versions, the first one was no where near goon enough to be even considered for something like this. But the second one is very very good, feels almost like an in game thing.
If you guys talk about it, and give me a hint that you'll seriously consider it, I can try to contact the author myself to fix a few minor bugs. (hooking him up with ~$100 and a few mentions in the casts could make it his personal mission to give a quality product to the community.)
And you Chill, just watch some of these recent pro reps in high resolution. 640x480 might still be best for playing, but for casting, this is the real thing.
I was hoping OGN or MBC would make their own versions of it, and then "Zoom out" as the big battle approaches. (kinda like what they do with switching between 1st person and normal observing) The crowd would go wild.
I second this, you oughta give it a whirl, if it works it would be amazing for casting
This is not an official response to the issue, as we have not discussed it extensively and come to an official stance, but I don't think it likely that we will use it.
nothing "really" bugged out is not exactly reassuring
It's unlikely that we would use something that is relatively untested in a broadcasting environment in a major money-involving event like TSL without extensively testing it beforehand (including with broadcasting). Broadcasting things involves more going on on the computer than merely using it to watch replays or with friends or whatever, since there is also streaming software to consider.
Merely testing it once or twice and making sure it works is not adequate--it would have to be extensively tested with hundreds of games in various situations which mimic possible scenarios we could run into while broadcasting, which includes doing live casts etc. Any sort of crash / inaccuracy is pretty unacceptable, and I think the staff will most likely spend the time they do have on doing other things for TL .
Why don't the people who do use it describe what they mean when they say nothing "really" bugs out -- does it crash? Does it lag? Does it miss actions?
The only thing it does is miss some starcraft sounds. It only detects sounds in a certain portion of the screen. Otherwise, it has never given me a problem.
You can't A-click the map (not important for obsing)
When you select a unit, and press it's icon hoping to center the screen, it doesn't get centered correctly. (it gets centered as if it was 640x480 which means the unit ends up actually being up and to the left of the center of the screen)
Minor visual bug happens when you hover over replay control buttons(pause, speed up, speed down). The popup label that in normal circumstances appears right above the button, now also appears in the middle of the screen (as if it was 640x480)
- It does NOT crash - it does NOT lag - it makes it a lot easier to see what's going on in battles - you guys should try it for yourselves
EPT
How is are two more games making it too long and boring? Korean finals are also bo7 and I am sure we can hold the excitement at least as long as they can. 
