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On February 17 2010 05:59 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 05:18 kernl wrote:On February 17 2010 05:09 Azarkon wrote:
Idra thinks he's the best player on the foreigner's scene no matter what even when he loses, that's just the kind of person he is. He is the best player. I don't even understand how people would argue he's not just because he lost. Again: SC would be boring and predictable if the better player would always win. A Bo5 says nothing about who's better, except that one player is not WAY better then the other. And again: Put IdrA against any other foreigner and let them play 1000 games. IdrA would win more than 50%. Makes him the best. Dead simple. By ladder ranks, Idra is clearly the best this season. But whether he's the best foreign SC player depends on how you define "best." That's all there is to it.
IdrA is the only foreigner in Korea Progaming right now and he is ranked 2nd on the B-Team of CJ Entus. How could you possibly compare him to ANY other foreigner, save Ret? Those two stand so much higher than everyone else. They lost, but Starcraft is not a game where the better player ALWAYS wins, if you think about it, JD/Flash have 70% wins, but 30% is still a damn big number for how much they train. IdrA had his bad/unlucky games, Ret picked up ZvZ a few months ago. Can we please just admit that IdrA is the best foreigner hands down today? Sure some may detest his attitude but that has absolutely nothing to do with his skill. This isn't American Idol where you can vote for the nice and good looking but bad singer.
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I'm going to have to agree with the statement that Mondragon lies through his teeth in his interviews. Also have to disagree with that being what 'social etiquette' is. If anything, it shows a lack of respect for the audience and for your opponent to never express any of what you actually think.
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Wings: so, from your point of view, let me summarize the arguments for Idra being the best foreign player:
* He's a progamer in Korea
* He is ranked 2nd on the CJ Entus B-team
* He wins more than he loses
Are there anyone who disagree with this criteria for "best foreign player?"
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On February 17 2010 07:31 errol1001 wrote:
I'm going to have to agree with the statement that Mondragon lies through his teeth in his interviews. Also have to disagree with that being what 'social etiquette' is. If anything, it shows a lack of respect for the audience and for your opponent to never express any of what you actually think.
How does he lie exactly? Predicting that he'll lose is if anything unrealistic. Lying on the other hand requires contradicting facts.
He is simply more mannered, even if he thinks he's going to crush all the noobs in his way, it's part of good sportsmanship not to put it like that in public.
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I think he might be referring to this from Mondragon's interview:
mouz.Fenix vs Me: Fenix showed a great performance vs kolll and proved his TvZ is top notch. Considering kolll is said to be the best ZvT in Europe, I don't think I have much of a chance.
Idra would probably think that this was a case of Mondragon being falsely modest because there's no way he would've went into the match thinking he didn't have much of a chance. Actually, I could see how one could interpret this as subtle sarcasm on Mondragon's part because he feels that koll is being overhyped, though I don't think that was Mondragon's intention, necessarily.
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On February 17 2010 07:01 RyanS wrote:
Idra still talking shit after being defeated. Manner up, skill up, and shut up. I'm sure your B-team partners would win 3-0 against every player in this tournament regardless of "gay cheesy builds."
Terran lost to Grape 2-1. I know that Grape is on Estro, but surely the B teams of CJ and Estro aren't that far apart. Not to mention, NonY is a much, much better player than Terran.
Your statement is quite ridiculous. Boxer lost to G5 and White Ra. G5 didn't even make it into the TSL.
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On February 17 2010 07:38 Azarkon wrote:
Wings: so, from your point of view, let me summarize the arguments for Idra being the best foreign player:
* He's a progamer in Korea
* He is ranked 2nd on the CJ Entus B-team
* He wins more than he loses
Are there anyone who disagree with this criteria for "best foreign player?"
You know, three things:
1- It would be fucking fucking sad if Idra was not better than people who practice between three and four time less than him since two years.
2- He is not CJ B-team number 2. He has been ranked 2 in a B-team tournament. If that makes him number 2 of the house, then he is number 5 to 8 foreigner as he has been 5 to 8 at TSL2.
3- It's quite amazing that after theses huge efforts, sacrifying sooo much in order to be a god at starcraft he manages to lose a Bo5 to Nony at his most important tournament and getting spanked 2-0 by a fourteen years old german amateur in what is supposed to be his best matchup at WCG.
Then look at his awesome results against real pros in prelims. 0-4. He didn't take a single game. And he was not playing Flash and Bisu.
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On February 17 2010 08:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 07:38 Azarkon wrote:
Wings: so, from your point of view, let me summarize the arguments for Idra being the best foreign player:
* He's a progamer in Korea
* He is ranked 2nd on the CJ Entus B-team
* He wins more than he loses
Are there anyone who disagree with this criteria for "best foreign player?" You know, three things: 1- It would be fucking fucking sad if Idra was not better than people who practice between three and four time less than him since two years. 2- He is not CJ B-team number 2. He has been ranked 2 in a B-team tournament. If that makes him number 2 of the house, then he is number 5 to 8 foreigner as he has been 5 to 8 at TSL2. 3- It's quite amazing that after theses huge efforts, sacrifying sooo much in order to be a god at starcraft he manages to lose a Bo5 to Nony at his most important tournament and getting spanked 2-0 by a fourteen years old german amateur in what is supposed to be his best matchup at WCG. Then look at his awesome results against real pros in prelims. 0-4. He didn't take a single game. And he was not playing Flash and Bisu.
This was so good I creamed my pants
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Idra attractiveness +10 in 2 years.
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LOL @ calling that dude backho.
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"Nony is Stork.
JF is backho."
-Idra
I agree
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Idra has grown a lot in my eyes recently, and this interview adds to that fact  I wish him all the best for his future SC / SC2 career! He just got himself a new supporter...maybe fan
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lol haters gona keep hatin
good interview thanks
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On February 16 2010 17:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 17:02 qrs wrote:
Artosis was kissing up to Idra too much for my taste ("Oh, for sure, you outmicroed him." "Yes, that was practically a build order win for Nony" etc. etc.), although it is understandable, considering that Idra was granting him an interview after a loss, which was gracious of Idra.
Despite that, good interview over all. Thanks to both of you. It isn't kissing up to agree with a correct statement. He agreed the game on Andro was a build order win for IdrA too. seems like confirmation bias to me
The game on Andro *was* a build order win. A build order win is when both players are acting without vision at the start of the game and someone gets an autowin out of it. In game 5, Nony proxied *after* he scouted Idra. If your first scout gets to me base and you know a way to (almost) 100% kill the build I'm doing, it isn't some lucky build order win when you crush me - it's just me having done a build without knowing how to defend that build versus aggression.
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On February 17 2010 09:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
"Nony is Stork.
JF is backho."
-Idra
I agree
JF is more like a protoss version of Jae Dong; king of 3-2 comebacks
and funny nony got 3-0'd by Draco and 3-1'd by Brat last TSL
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Idra still talking shit after being defeated. Manner up, skill up, and shut up. I'm sure your B-team partners would win 3-0 against every player in this tournament regardless of "gay cheesy builds."
Why do people make posts like this? You don't see the giant hypocrisy of telling Idra to manner up when you are talking out of your ass like this (hint: Idra is one of the better/best B teamers)?
Anyway, gg's, GL to Nony, sad to see Idra out.
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On February 16 2010 15:53 Artosis wrote:
The interview you are all dying to see
got that right! haha
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im neutral on this idra matter, dont like him, dont hate him. But i have one question that is bothering me, why cant he defend against cheese? He seems to complain a lot about cheese...
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United States8841 Posts
On February 17 2010 03:21 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 02:27 TwoToneTerran wrote:On February 16 2010 23:43 JWD wrote:On February 16 2010 23:30 Zplut wrote:On February 16 2010 23:02 IdrA wrote:
hows it rude to expect to win? its not like i said nonys a terrible person or even a bad player. hell predicting someones gonna lose 3 games doesnt even mean you think theyre worse than you. yeah can`t find the part where you imply that he is worse than you .... so what? I don't see why you are worked up over a professional competitor implying he is better than an opponent with idra's history you can't be naive enough to think this is all friendly jostling. There's difference in delivery. Of course it's not just friendly jostling--IdrA isn't joking around when he talks about his opponents' weak/abusive playstyles or their skill levels. He's completely serious...and again, so what? I'm really not sure what you're getting at. Implicit in your comment seems to be the suggestion that, by making some statements about NonY's relative BW skill, IdrA is doing something inappropriate or rude (like indicting NonY's character? I have no idea). That's preposterous.
No, he's an absolute dick about it the way he's an absolute dick about 90% of the stuff he does, starcraftwise.
I'm not getting onto him about it -- Hell I love it for the flavor it adds. But it's not as simple as "he's just implying he's better." The way Idra talks ALL of his competition down for the past year has more been implying everyone else is garbage. He's a jerk and that's why people don't like it when he's on his high horse, he just tends to be able to back up his claims more often then not (ironically he pretty much only missed out on the 2 biggest tournaments for foreigners. Oh well).
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"haters are going to keep on hating"
not totally true, there is hope (ex idra hater here)
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EPT
