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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
On May 06 2011 11:10 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 11:06 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 11:00 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 10:55 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 10:51 Myersmayhem wrote:Umm i just started posting but lemme look. QUOTE] On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time  cant accept a loss  Idk sure he admits to the sniping part i guess the rest is speculation but idk i was watching the stream it was kinda scary how accurate he was See?So you don't know, he didn't admit it, he just said that he sniped Idra. All you are doing is speculating. @ moonling, can you quote what Cruncher said to provoke it or something? if he said what was quoted by myers then how is that a basis for calling Cruncher a waste of life? The Quote is posted above - The thing he saying "Haha i Sniped Idra; his fans are raging" etc something in that context. Regardless i still think Idra would have called him a waste of life, but my point is; is that Cruncher was trolling Your point was that Cruncher was trolling, alright, but where does that leave us?You meant that Cruncher deserved a ban or something?I don't really get it. Sigh, can you not just re-read what i said- Chil PM'd Cruncher to edit his post to calm the Idra rabid fans; because he was trolling etc. with his post. However, he didnt' PM idra to edit his (which was immature and offensive) it just seems bias, however, cruncher could be seen just as offensive. I'm not a mod tbh i would have given both a warning, or both to edit there post cause they both were causing drama, and being immature. Idk i just see things differently i guess it just seems a little bias.
Idra has about 20 previous bans, cruncher doesn't. That's often a contributing factor when mods take action. In this instance idra was blatantly flaming whereas cruncher's post probably wasn't that offensive to begin with.
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On May 06 2011 10:59 dogabutila wrote:
Oh noes, he called somebody a waste of life. That is so so hurtful and should never be acceptable.
Lets face it, apparently TL is now in the business of supporting cheaters as long as they beat people the mods don't like. "Oh but there isn't complete 100% proof that he was cheating!". Hi, watch the game with the idra audio on and you can pretty much tell that cruncher was cheating.
I'd point out that with the number of bans IdrA has the fact he's still around is evidence the mods do like him - favor him even. Probably as a result of the "known pro" thing. You know, if we were going to throw accusations around the place and stuff.
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On May 06 2011 10:53 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 10:09 rdj107 wrote:On May 06 2011 09:27 Jibba wrote:On May 06 2011 09:18 Alou wrote:On May 06 2011 09:10 JBrown08 wrote:On May 06 2011 08:31 Telcontar wrote:
The kid's been hit with so many temp bans, he must be impervious to it by now. Sigh.... I wonder if he'll ever change or at least mature a little and learn to moderate what passes between his brain and his mouth. Here's to hoping I guess. You know, I kinda find that a funny sentiment (although I agree with the societal implications of such an act). Everyone when asked would probably agree that honesty is the best policy; but in reality we live in a society that punishes such actions. If I were to tell you something factual while leaving out my true meaning it would be called dishonest or "lying through omission". Yet here we are in a situation where most would agree that one should simply not be honest, and in fact "moderate" his true feelings. The life of a forum moderator is simple in that he only has to adhere to his own moral judgement of what is acceptable, while in fact the policies set out on any such forum are hard to actually place. It is easy to say "common sense" must rule; but in practice it is hard to enforce. While I might find in my Canadian sensibilities something not offensive, another mod from another background may; and I am obliged to present a unified front and agree with his actions. (See the fact that some people might find Jinro swearing in public interviews offensive, while he admits that is just his swedish background and they don't fret such things). So I can understand why Idra is banned so often here; there is a large variety of moderators from very different moral backgrounds that will in fact find pure honesty disrespectful or offensive. Funnily enough many societies find disrespect in and of itself offensive, so his forthright opinion of other players is actually gonna piss some mods off. Now of course, there is always the other option; he is just and ass and no one likes an ass. But I find the honesty and moderation angle intriguing. I think you're construing (edit - probably not the right word now that i reread this post, but it's final weeks and im going to turn that into my excuse for poor word choice) the concept of somewhat just saying whatever comes to mind (telecontar's post about IdrA) with being honest. There is a subtle difference between having this stream of conscious thought being spoken and being honest with what you say. But I agree that that angle of thought is intriguing though. Was the comment by IdrA on stream or in a post? I've heard it was on a stream and I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of streams being moderated in that sense, but then again I'm also not a mod so who cares. On May 06 2011 07:48 IdrA wrote:
of course he cheated, its a ladder game who cares.
stop giving him attention. hes a waste of life the more you talk about him the longer it takes for him to go away.
User was temp banned for this post. It's just the "waste of life" aspect. We wouldn't tolerate that from anyone. As for Cruncher, there's no way to actually prove he's cheating. If we could actually catch someone stream cheating, there would be some repercussions. Except your tl commandment page specifically mentions getting "verbally medieval" on someone as allowed when the situation warrants it. I would think the heavy implication of stream cheating/sniping to be exactly that kind of situation, especially given how enthused cruncher seems to be about bm'ing idra. Is there any particular reason why flaming someone for stream cheating him isn't justified in this instance? Because there is no actual evidence that Cruncher cheated. Getting an all-in hard countered isn't a proof of anything. It could just have been a coincidence or the result of something the viewers & IdrA didn't catch at the time. Even if there was concrete evidence that he was, calling someone 'a waste of life' shouldn't be acceptable.
Apparently there's a deep significance to that phrase I'm missing. If he had said cruncher was a prick or whatever other use of profanity would that have been acceptable? According to tl's rules it would be as long as it was done in a humorous or creative fashion, which is why I'm confused.
And no, of course there is no proof. Stream cheating is impossible to prove, which is why it was a big enough issue to prevent any large tournament from live streaming. However when you have someone like cruncher blind countering a build with odd timings, while also being in the stream at the time, while also having a history of pretty constant bm (including plug pulling games he loses) to idra, it's suspect enough that it's understandable that idra would just assume he was stream cheating.
Given all that it's still not acceptable to voice disdain about someone in your own stream thread? If it isn't then the commandments thread is pretty much irrelevant to what the rules of tl are at best, and misleading at worst.
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On May 06 2011 10:59 dogabutila wrote:
Oh noes, he called somebody a waste of life. That is so so hurtful and should never be acceptable.
Lets face it, apparently TL is now in the business of supporting cheaters as long as they beat people the mods don't like. "Oh but there isn't complete 100% proof that he was cheating!". Hi, watch the game with the idra audio on and you can pretty much tell that cruncher was cheating.
I'm pretty sure this is not the case. TL is allowed to moderate the forum as they wish see Ten Commandments Section 3 + Show Spoiler +
3. THOU SHALL THINK BEFORE POSTING
Please, think before you chime in with your opinion on a given post or series of posts. There will usually be some history behind a given exchange in our forums, so take the time to observe what might really be going on and put the conversation into context before you decide who's "right" and who's "wrong." Above all, take into account who is posting - context is everything. Chirping in with your grossly uninformed opinions will only make you look dumb and irritate the heck out of the people who do know what's going on.
Remember, there's a reason why we do things around here. Our Moderators are not power hungry, unreasonable people with agendas against specific users. If they ban someone, there was probably a very good reason for it. If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands by posting "Ban?" or telling users they will be banned. You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that.
They specifically state that they do not have agendas etc and that speculating is useless. As for this episode, it boils down to whether you feel that the possibility of cheating using a stream is worse or equal than calling someone a waste of life. Idra's comments were clearly out line, hence he got banned. Cruncher's comments may be out of line, hence the PM. You may feel that people should just accept idra's insults but clearly the mods do not.
Sorry mate, you seem to be looking for a conspiracy that doesn't exist.
Edit: Grammar
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On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time cant accept a loss about the 'cheating': sniping=waiting till he searches to search http://puu.sh/1Tpwas you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live) idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech)
Totally BM towards IdrA fans! I say he should be banned, if IdrA gets banned for such a small thing, then Cruncher should be too! I feel highly insulted as an IdrA fanboy, you can totally see he is provoking us!
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Calgary26003 Posts
On May 06 2011 11:10 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 11:06 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 11:00 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 10:55 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 10:51 Myersmayhem wrote:Umm i just started posting but lemme look. QUOTE] On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time cant accept a loss Idk sure he admits to the sniping part i guess the rest is speculation but idk i was watching the stream it was kinda scary how accurate he was See?So you don't know, he didn't admit it, he just said that he sniped Idra. All you are doing is speculating. @ moonling, can you quote what Cruncher said to provoke it or something? if he said what was quoted by myers then how is that a basis for calling Cruncher a waste of life? The Quote is posted above - The thing he saying "Haha i Sniped Idra; his fans are raging" etc something in that context. Regardless i still think Idra would have called him a waste of life, but my point is; is that Cruncher was trolling Your point was that Cruncher was trolling, alright, but where does that leave us?You meant that Cruncher deserved a ban or something?I don't really get it. Sigh, can you not just re-read what i said- Chil PM'd Cruncher to edit his post to calm the Idra rabid fans; because he was trolling etc. with his post. However, he didnt' PM idra to edit his (which was immature and offensive) it just seems bias, however, cruncher could be seen just as offensive. I'm not a mod tbh i would have given both a warning, or both to edit there post cause they both were causing drama, and being immature. Idk i just see things differently i guess it just seems a little bias.
As I've said before: I PM'd Cruncher to clarify what he meant by "sniped" since it has two meanings. He added an explanation to quell the masses.
I didn't PM Idra because it's evident what he meant by "waste of life".
It's not biased. I like Idra more than Cruncher to be frank. I've met Idra in real life many times and I like him. People are speculating that I've banned him because he says stuff about me on his stream - I don't watch his stream so I can't react to that. Regardless, I'm not the kind of person who would moderate based on what people said behind my back.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 06 2011 11:46 Qurid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time cant accept a loss about the 'cheating': sniping=waiting till he searches to search http://puu.sh/1Tpwas you can see the sound is muted and the guy ss'd my stream(live) idra all-ins half the games in ipl, and i didnt see him expand. and you make 2 gateways so you block off faster, mostly after nexus first (and i dropped my 2nd gate before he dropped his roach warren). and 2 cannons when you nexus first is cheating? (watch gsl/ipl/nasl, ex- anypro makes 3 cannons and zealot/sentry/stalker before tech) Totally BM towards IdrA fans! I say he should be banned, if IdrA gets banned for such a small thing, then Cruncher should be too! I feel highly insulted as an IdrA fanboy.
This is a clever troll.
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On May 06 2011 11:47 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 11:10 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 11:06 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 11:00 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 10:55 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 10:51 Myersmayhem wrote:Umm i just started posting but lemme look. QUOTE] On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time cant accept a loss Idk sure he admits to the sniping part i guess the rest is speculation but idk i was watching the stream it was kinda scary how accurate he was See?So you don't know, he didn't admit it, he just said that he sniped Idra. All you are doing is speculating. @ moonling, can you quote what Cruncher said to provoke it or something? if he said what was quoted by myers then how is that a basis for calling Cruncher a waste of life? The Quote is posted above - The thing he saying "Haha i Sniped Idra; his fans are raging" etc something in that context. Regardless i still think Idra would have called him a waste of life, but my point is; is that Cruncher was trolling Your point was that Cruncher was trolling, alright, but where does that leave us?You meant that Cruncher deserved a ban or something?I don't really get it. Sigh, can you not just re-read what i said- Chil PM'd Cruncher to edit his post to calm the Idra rabid fans; because he was trolling etc. with his post. However, he didnt' PM idra to edit his (which was immature and offensive) it just seems bias, however, cruncher could be seen just as offensive. I'm not a mod tbh i would have given both a warning, or both to edit there post cause they both were causing drama, and being immature. Idk i just see things differently i guess it just seems a little bias. As I've said before: I PM'd Cruncher to clarify what he meant by "sniped" since it has two meanings. He added an explanation to quell the masses. I didn't PM Idra because it's evident what he meant by "waste of life". It's not biased. I like Idra more than Cruncher to be frank. I've met Idra in real life many times and I like him. People are speculating that I've banned him because he says stuff about me on his stream - I don't watch his stream so I can't react to that. Regardless, I'm not the kind of person who would moderate based on what people said behind my back.
Thanks for clearing that up Chill. As much as people bitch about TL moderation, I'm really glad to be in a community where you guys are transparent about things.
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i almost forgot i wanted to bitch how i got banned for saying 'indians know all about birthmarks' honestly making fun of bollywood movies where every ending has some people finding out they were born relatives by looking at their similar birthmark patterns lol
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=212106#9
somehow 2 mods thought it was racism, what the hell
another question would be - did i get banned from making blogs? is that some kind of a punishment? i dont think i made that horrible of a blog yet
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On May 06 2011 11:47 Chill wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2011 11:10 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 11:06 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 11:00 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 10:55 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 10:51 Myersmayhem wrote:Umm i just started posting but lemme look. QUOTE] On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time cant accept a loss Idk sure he admits to the sniping part i guess the rest is speculation but idk i was watching the stream it was kinda scary how accurate he was See?So you don't know, he didn't admit it, he just said that he sniped Idra. All you are doing is speculating. @ moonling, can you quote what Cruncher said to provoke it or something? if he said what was quoted by myers then how is that a basis for calling Cruncher a waste of life? The Quote is posted above - The thing he saying "Haha i Sniped Idra; his fans are raging" etc something in that context. Regardless i still think Idra would have called him a waste of life, but my point is; is that Cruncher was trolling Your point was that Cruncher was trolling, alright, but where does that leave us?You meant that Cruncher deserved a ban or something?I don't really get it. Sigh, can you not just re-read what i said- Chil PM'd Cruncher to edit his post to calm the Idra rabid fans; because he was trolling etc. with his post. However, he didnt' PM idra to edit his (which was immature and offensive) it just seems bias, however, cruncher could be seen just as offensive. I'm not a mod tbh i would have given both a warning, or both to edit there post cause they both were causing drama, and being immature. Idk i just see things differently i guess it just seems a little bias. As I've said before: I PM'd Cruncher to clarify what he meant by "sniped" since it has two meanings. He added an explanation to quell the masses. I didn't PM Idra because it's evident what he meant by "waste of life". It's not biased. I like Idra more than Cruncher to be frank. I've met Idra in real life many times and I like him. People are speculating that I've banned him because he says stuff about me on his stream - I don't watch his stream so I can't react to that. Regardless, I'm not the kind of person who would moderate based on what people said behind my back.
Yet another episode that demonstrates that TL deals with problems in a professional manner. As always, when in doubt don't assume some weird conspiracy.
Great job Chill
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On May 06 2011 11:47 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 11:10 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 11:06 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 11:00 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 10:55 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 10:51 Myersmayhem wrote:Umm i just started posting but lemme look. QUOTE] On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time cant accept a loss Idk sure he admits to the sniping part i guess the rest is speculation but idk i was watching the stream it was kinda scary how accurate he was See?So you don't know, he didn't admit it, he just said that he sniped Idra. All you are doing is speculating. @ moonling, can you quote what Cruncher said to provoke it or something? if he said what was quoted by myers then how is that a basis for calling Cruncher a waste of life? The Quote is posted above - The thing he saying "Haha i Sniped Idra; his fans are raging" etc something in that context. Regardless i still think Idra would have called him a waste of life, but my point is; is that Cruncher was trolling Your point was that Cruncher was trolling, alright, but where does that leave us?You meant that Cruncher deserved a ban or something?I don't really get it. Sigh, can you not just re-read what i said- Chil PM'd Cruncher to edit his post to calm the Idra rabid fans; because he was trolling etc. with his post. However, he didnt' PM idra to edit his (which was immature and offensive) it just seems bias, however, cruncher could be seen just as offensive. I'm not a mod tbh i would have given both a warning, or both to edit there post cause they both were causing drama, and being immature. Idk i just see things differently i guess it just seems a little bias. People are speculating that I've banned him because he says stuff about me on his stream - I don't watch his stream so I can't react to that. .
Aside from when he played Combat-Ex, I don't think I've ever heard IdrA mention you. Did I miss something?
I'd also like to say that this was a very professional process. Thanks Chill. And thanks for being lenient.
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On May 06 2011 11:50 thehorsebecomesking wrote:i almost forgot i wanted to bitch how i got banned for saying 'indians know all about birthmarks' honestly making fun of bollywood movies where every ending has some people finding out they were born relatives by looking at their similar birthmark patterns lol http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=212106#9somehow 2 mods thought it was racism, what the hell another question would be - did i get banned from making blogs? is that some kind of a punishment? i dont think i made that horrible of a blog yet
Did you PM a mod about it? Kinda weird that it went from a warning to a temp ban. They must have their reasons.
The one-liner doesn't exactly explain your understanding, or position very well at all. To be frank, there is no mention about Bollywood so the mods will judge on what you say. Which is racist... Context is everything, perhaps you should have provided it?
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United States13896 Posts
On May 06 2011 11:50 thehorsebecomesking wrote:i almost forgot i wanted to bitch how i got banned for saying 'indians know all about birthmarks' honestly making fun of bollywood movies where every ending has some people finding out they were born relatives by looking at their similar birthmark patterns lol http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=212106#9somehow 2 mods thought it was racism, what the hell another question would be - did i get banned from making blogs? is that some kind of a punishment? i dont think i made that horrible of a blog yet
If you have a problem with moderation, take your concerns to a moderator or admin (via PM). As long as you are civil and mannered about it we're happy to have a discussion with you.
Now, that aside, your post was still horrible even if it wasn't racist. Combined with a poor history you should have been banned regardless.
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On May 06 2011 11:47 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 11:10 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 11:06 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 11:00 Moonling wrote:On May 06 2011 10:55 Kipsate wrote:On May 06 2011 10:51 Myersmayhem wrote:Umm i just started posting but lemme look. QUOTE] On May 06 2011 07:10 CrunCher wrote:lol. idra fanboys so uspet i sniped idra. watch my stream next time cant accept a loss Idk sure he admits to the sniping part i guess the rest is speculation but idk i was watching the stream it was kinda scary how accurate he was See?So you don't know, he didn't admit it, he just said that he sniped Idra. All you are doing is speculating. @ moonling, can you quote what Cruncher said to provoke it or something? if he said what was quoted by myers then how is that a basis for calling Cruncher a waste of life? The Quote is posted above - The thing he saying "Haha i Sniped Idra; his fans are raging" etc something in that context. Regardless i still think Idra would have called him a waste of life, but my point is; is that Cruncher was trolling Your point was that Cruncher was trolling, alright, but where does that leave us?You meant that Cruncher deserved a ban or something?I don't really get it. Sigh, can you not just re-read what i said- Chil PM'd Cruncher to edit his post to calm the Idra rabid fans; because he was trolling etc. with his post. However, he didnt' PM idra to edit his (which was immature and offensive) it just seems bias, however, cruncher could be seen just as offensive. I'm not a mod tbh i would have given both a warning, or both to edit there post cause they both were causing drama, and being immature. Idk i just see things differently i guess it just seems a little bias. As I've said before: I PM'd Cruncher to clarify what he meant by "sniped" since it has two meanings. He added an explanation to quell the masses. I didn't PM Idra because it's evident what he meant by "waste of life". It's not biased. I like Idra more than Cruncher to be frank. I've met Idra in real life many times and I like him. People are speculating that I've banned him because he says stuff about me on his stream - I don't watch his stream so I can't react to that. Regardless, I'm not the kind of person who would moderate based on what people said behind my back.
Ok understood thanks for clearing that up, i was just mad because it seems Cruncher does these things to get publicity for himself. Appreciate the response Chill.
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I can't believe the mods here show such poor judgement that they shut down Idra streaming for 2 days because he called out a cheater. Unbelievable really.
User was banned for this post.
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United States7481 Posts
On May 06 2011 12:09 andrecatron wrote:
I can't believe the mods here show such poor judgement that they shut down Idra streaming for 2 days because he called out a cheater. Unbelievable really.
I hope you are aware that tl.net mods have no jurisdiction over justin.tv and idra not streaming is entirely of his own free will, even if you believe against all evidence that cruncher was cheating.
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Edit: Redundant. I posted too slow.
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On May 06 2011 11:47 Chill wrote:
As I've said before: I PM'd Cruncher to clarify what he meant by "sniped" since it has two meanings. He added an explanation to quell the masses.
I didn't PM Idra because it's evident what he meant by "waste of life".
It's not biased. I like Idra more than Cruncher to be frank. I've met Idra in real life many times and I like him. People are speculating that I've banned him because he says stuff about me on his stream - I don't watch his stream so I can't react to that. Regardless, I'm not the kind of person who would moderate based on what people said behind my back.
seriously chill. are you honestly as somebody who was competing once not empathic enough to understand that idra was obviously a tad upset after cruncher beat him and most likely cheated. you could have simply edited idra's post if it upset you. but please stop banning pros who contribute more to the community and esports than you do by banning them for 100% understandable reactions.
give tl back it's charm.
and pls dont call that screenshot evidence. he decided to not archive the stream from today for a reason.it's just not likely he would take it down if it would show he didn't cheat.
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The reaction of IdrA's ban is ridiculous.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On May 06 2011 12:09 andrecatron wrote:
I can't believe the mods here show such poor judgement that they shut down Idra streaming for 2 days because he called out a cheater. Unbelievable really.
User was banned for this post.
Actually, he called a suspected (and unconfirmed) cheater a "waste of life".
Actually, his stream isn't shut down, you can still access it directly through Teamliquid, Twitter or Justin.tv.
Actually, we didn't shut down his stream - banned users streams are automatically set to offline, even if they are online.
Believe it!
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EPT
