Please tell me what this is so I can buy it. Today we're announcing TL+, a premium service for the TL forums. TL+ will be a feature similar to Reddit Gold: purchasers will gain some special features and abilities on our forums, like the removal of banner advertisements, access to special TL+ forums, and other cool stuff. You can buy it for yourself or gift it to other TL users.
How does this impact regular users? For many of you, this changes nothing on the site. We're making sure that the normal user experience is not altered in any significant way, aside from seeing a few small icons or post highlights. Of course, you'll have to live with the mystery of not knowing what is in the secret TL+ forum of awesomeness but we assume you'll be able to survive.
Oh no, is TL selling out?? OK let's be real for a second. It's no secret that we're trying to find ways to generate income for us, like creating and promoting TL store items. However, our goal for "commercializing" TL has always been to do it in a way that doesn't negatively impact the average user's experience, only add to it. We feel that TL+ achieves this goal: it adds a lot of fun features for very active TL users and supporters, while being non-intrusive to those that don't wish to buy it. In addition, it provides an option for those that wish to support TL without being forced to see ads, something we really didn't offer until now.
Why didn't all these features exist already for free? We've actually considered this quite a bit in the past. The reason is these features can't really be justified for all users for various reasons, like server load, spam concerns, or cost. As for the future, rest assured, if a feature is "core" to TL users we won't be making it premium-only, and we'll continue to improve the site for everyone as we've always done.
So if I buy this, I can repeatedly insult the unwashed masses of normal users without fear of being banned? No, you jerk. TL+ users will largely be moderated the same way as normal users, and will be held to the same posting standards. The TL+ private forums however may have slightly less strict moderation when it comes to thread and post content. If you buy TL+ for yourself or gift it to others, you are just purchasing some added features and access while supporting TL. It is not a get-out-of-ban free card or a way to feel superior to others.
TL+ Trailer / Commercial Here is everything you need to know about TL+ condensed into 35 seconds of "Inception" music.
Features
+ No Ads This is pretty self explanatory: for you, the banner ads on TL will be removed. You will also have an option to turn off TL created ads, like the countdowns we have top right for big events.
+ Private TL+ Forum In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams.
+ Filter button (view all posts by a single person in a thread) By clicking on this button you can see all the posts made by a single user in a thread. It's also extremely useful for stalking people.
+ View all button (view 1000 forum posts on one page) For the TL user that can't be bothered to scroll through pages, you can now browse threads of any length 1000 posts at a time. For example, a 300-page Live Report thread can be 6 pages. Regular users can only do this for threads under 1000 posts.
+ Send PM's to multiple recipients Now you can mass PM all the moderators every day! But seriously don't do this or we will ban you.
+ Subscribed Threads and Favorite Streams limits increased from 50 to 200 There are more than 50 cool threads and streamers on TL so here's your chance to bookmark all of them.
+ Ability to report forum posts to moderators If you're too scared to fight crime in real life you can do it on the internet instead by reporting bad posts or users. The mods still have the final say in whether action is taken, but it is kind of fun to contribute to some idiot being banned. Note: regular users with accounts over 1+ year old will still get a report button.
+ Small icon showing you are a TL+ member In the bottom right of your post you'll have a tiny plus indicating you are a TL+ member. Please don't use this as an excuse to act like you are superior to other users. You can feel free to secretly feel this way though. If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar.
Price
TL+ will cost the same whether you are purchasing for yourself or someone else. There are discounts for buying more months. Currently there is no "lifetime TL+" membership. We'll work on that. In the meantime, enjoy the new features!
On June 22 2013 02:36 Florix wrote: wow really cool. subscription or one time purchase?
Price
TL+ will cost the same whether you are purchasing for yourself or someone else. There are discounts for buying more months. Currently there is no "lifetime TL+" membership. We'll work on that. In the meantime, enjoy the new features!
This is actually something I'm going to consider, considering the amount of time I spend on TL. Ordinarily, I'd never think about it, but ... I like TL I guess.
On June 22 2013 02:38 Linwelin wrote: Can we decide not to show the icon in the bottom right? I'd rather keep my favourite team banners (in the forums where the banners are shown anyway)
The icon stacks with all others (wiki coins, team icons, etc).
You guys should give TL+ users colored SC2 icons instead of gold bars, they're less distracting and more cool that way :D
TL+ users do not get gold bars. Only posts that users receive TL+ for get a gold bar, which I don't think will be as frequent, as each user largely will only really receive it once.
On June 22 2013 02:38 Linwelin wrote: Can we decide not to show the icon in the bottom right? I'd rather keep my favourite team banners (in the forums where the banners are shown anyway)
The icon stacks with all others (wiki coins, team icons, etc).
All right cheers! I'll consider buying a 12 months one
You guys should give TL+ users colored SC2 icons instead of gold bars, they're less distracting and more cool that way :D
TL+ users do not get gold bars. Only posts that users receive TL+ for get a gold bar, which I don't think will be as frequent, as each user largely will only really receive it once.
Wow I'm actually surprised at the prices. I came into this thinking it'd be a lot higher than that (now I don't use reddit so reading the reddit gold part meant nothing to me). I'll consider purchasing a month just to try it out.
On June 22 2013 02:41 mcc wrote: Interesting. Is the reason why filter button is not available to all users the server load ? As that seems like a universally useful feature.
It has to search the entire thread picking out only certain posts, so it does cause a lot more load than normal thread views.
On June 22 2013 02:44 Grettin wrote: Seems like the Filter button under Quote button messes the posts a bit. Theres one line of free space on top of the post. Intentional?
I didn't like it at first. But you'll get used to it in a month~
On June 22 2013 02:46 crms wrote: What would the + forums entail? Will it be focused on SC2 or will your Dota 2 section get some love? I don't follow SC2 as much anymore.
It's just a sub-forum where any thread or discussion could be made.
On June 22 2013 02:44 Grettin wrote: Seems like the Filter button under Quote button messes the posts a bit. Theres one line of free space on top of the post. Intentional?
I didn't like it at first. But you'll get used to it in a month~
I mean, sure. But if there is really no purpose for it and can be fixed, why let it stay as it is?
On June 22 2013 02:44 Grettin wrote: Seems like the Filter button under Quote button messes the posts a bit. Theres one line of free space on top of the post. Intentional?
I didn't like it at first. But you'll get used to it in a month~
I mean, sure. But if there is really no purpose for it and can be fixed, why let it stay as it is?
Originally filter was a staff-only button with a few other buttons useful for mods adjacent to it. It's possible all the people testing the features were staff already so didn't really notice, maybe r1ch will decide to move filter up by the others since I imagine it's pretty lonely down there by itself for TL+ users.
On June 22 2013 02:56 Yoshi- wrote: The "Gift TL+" button leads pretty much nowhere
Do you have javascript disabled/blocked?
I see, i clicked it with my middlemouse button opening it in a new tab
Still they should change it so that the link (http://www.teamliquid.net/mytlnet/plus.php?user=Antoine&post=18962314) actually leads to an interface where you can donate.
If people purchase this, does this give them a ticket to post certain things that would normally get them warned/banned? Reason why I ask is because people normally purchase these kinds of things thinking they now can get away with certain things that they couldn't normally get away with before. Since they are paying TL to be part of a "special crew".
On June 22 2013 03:02 ShoCkeyy wrote: If people purchase this, does this give them a ticket to post certain things that would normally get them warned/banned? Reason why I ask is because people normally purchase these kinds of things thinking they now can get away with certain things that they couldn't normally get away with before. Since they are paying TL to be part of a "special crew".
So if I buy this, I can repeatedly insult the unwashed masses of normal users without fear of being banned? No, you jerk. TL+ users will largely be moderated the same way as normal users, and will be held to the same posting standards. The TL+ private forums however may have slightly less strict moderation when it comes to thread and post content. If you buy TL+ for yourself or gift it to others, you are just purchasing some added features and access while supporting TL. It is not a get-out-of-ban free card or a way to feel superior to others.
On June 22 2013 03:02 ShoCkeyy wrote: If people purchase this, does this give them a ticket to post certain things that would normally get them warned/banned? Reason why I ask is because people normally purchase these kinds of things thinking they now can get away with certain things that they couldn't normally get away with before. Since they are paying TL to be part of a "special crew".
So if I buy this, I can repeatedly insult the unwashed masses of normal users without fear of being banned? No, you jerk. TL+ users will largely be moderated the same way as normal users, and will be held to the same posting standards. The TL+ private forums however may have slightly less strict moderation when it comes to thread and post content. If you buy TL+ for yourself or gift it to others, you are just purchasing some added features and access while supporting TL. It is not a get-out-of-ban free card or a way to feel superior to others.
Well, it says they will largely be moderated the same way and I think that is quite reasonable. If you pay, you get some privilege, but not a get-out-of-jail card. Seems fair to me.
I am extremely disappointed by this decision. Doesn't make TL have enough money with the merchandising and the sponsors?
Decline of Teamliquid.
I for one hope not a lot of people pay for this. I won't ever pay for this anyway.
edit: looks like the pay to post already started:
+ Private TL+ Forum In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams.
On June 22 2013 03:02 ShoCkeyy wrote: If people purchase this, does this give them a ticket to post certain things that would normally get them warned/banned? Reason why I ask is because people normally purchase these kinds of things thinking they now can get away with certain things that they couldn't normally get away with before. Since they are paying TL to be part of a "special crew".
So if I buy this, I can repeatedly insult the unwashed masses of normal users without fear of being banned? No, you jerk. TL+ users will largely be moderated the same way as normal users, and will be held to the same posting standards. The TL+ private forums however may have slightly less strict moderation when it comes to thread and post content. If you buy TL+ for yourself or gift it to others, you are just purchasing some added features and access while supporting TL. It is not a get-out-of-ban free card or a way to feel superior to others.
Yea, must of just skimmed over that part and didn't notice. Either way, I think they should be able to get more privileges in posting standards since they are creating your new source of revenue...
On June 22 2013 02:41 mcc wrote: Interesting. Is the reason why filter button is not available to all users the server load ? As that seems like a universally useful feature.
It has to search the entire thread picking out only certain posts, so it does cause a lot more load than normal thread views.
Of course I was just not sure what impact does this have and if that was the reason.
On June 22 2013 03:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yea, must of just skimmed over that part and didn't notice. Either way, I think they should be able to get more privileges in posting standards since they are creating your new source of revenue...
You can think whatever you want of course, but it is a terrible idea to allow people to break all rules by paying for a premium.
Considering buying this. Pricing seems just a bit steep to me :-/ Sometimes though I do miss the show all button on big threads... Would suggestions from TL+ users for website enhancements get stronger consideration?
But I don't like the distinction made in posts for TL+ users. A nice shiny icon on the profile page would be .. better . in my humble opinion. The lone plus in the corner seems okay, but the yellow header in the post like HTBclassy made on the first page? yuk..
oh yeah, Paypal is an evil company and a big threshold for me (I see that I could pay with creditcard directly..).
On June 22 2013 03:07 zerotol wrote: Next step pay to post
I am extremely disappointed by this decision. Doesn't make TL have enough money with the merchandising and the sponsors?
Decline of Teamliquid.
I for one hope not a lot of people pay for this. I won't ever pay for this anyway.
edit: looks like the pay to post already started:
+ Private TL+ Forum In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams.
You can't be serious, no one is forcing you to buy this.
On June 22 2013 03:16 Badjas wrote: Considering buying this. Pricing seems just a bit steep to me :-/ Sometimes though I do miss the show all button on big threads... Would suggestions from TL+ users for website enhancements get stronger consideration?
But I don't like the distinction made in posts for TL+ users. A nice shiny icon on the profile page would be .. better . in my humble opinion. The lone plus in the corner seems okay, but the yellow header in the post like HTBclassy made on the first page? yuk..
oh yeah, Paypal is an evil company and a big threshold for me (I see that I could pay with creditcard directly..).
The yellow bar is only for posts that got gifted TL+ so it is not for premium users in general, but specifically for a post people considered good enough to gift. In a way it is similar to the blue bars for high level strategy posts with the majority of the posts that get the yellow bar (gifted TL+ specifically for this post) will be worth reading. It will be much, much rarer than the icons bottom right.
On June 22 2013 03:07 zerotol wrote: Next step pay to post
I am extremely disappointed by this decision. Doesn't make TL have enough money with the merchandising and the sponsors?
Decline of Teamliquid.
I for one hope not a lot of people pay for this. I won't ever pay for this anyway.
edit: looks like the pay to post already started:
+ Private TL+ Forum In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams.
No you don't pay to post, you pay to get additional features that slightly enhance your user experience. There's a forum for TL+ which like any other of the 100+ sub communities on TL probably lead to people getting to know the other people in that sub community. There's no slippery slope here. There's no decline here. And the more money TL makes the better TL can become since it can invest in people and technology to enhance the forum and the content.
I'm not a fan of such things,but considering all the icons, there is a market for it. Guess its the same kind of people that buy skins or hats in steam. Nothing wrong with trying to use this source of money,
The TL+ forum is not going to replace the rest of TL, I can't believe people are thinking this will "Slippery slope" to pay per post hahaha.
It's basically an exclusive sub-forum for people who paid to support TL for whatever their reasoning is. It's a slightly less strict place to post and it's got a much smaller base of users (so far).
Ergo it's extremely easy to make close forum-buddies and have a conversation that isn't moving at 200 posts per minute re the general forum or such.
On June 22 2013 03:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yea, must of just skimmed over that part and didn't notice. Either way, I think they should be able to get more privileges in posting standards since they are creating your new source of revenue...
You can think whatever you want of course, but it is a terrible idea to allow people to break all rules by paying for a premium.
Naz, I never said break all the rules, but I'm sure there a few rules that can be broken in terms of posting.
Example:
One Liners - As long as there is no insults, I don't see why this rule can't be broken in the regular forums.
Freedom of speech - One issue I've had with this site recently is when people post their opinions, they get banned or warned if no one else agrees. Yes this is TL house, but if some one is going to "pay", they should be allowed to now be able to post their opinion as long as it doesn't attack a person in a harmful way. I would like to be able to argue with a Mod on certain things with out being scared to get banned because of my views compared to that of the mods.
Image Posting - As long as the image relates to the thread, but they don't add any kind of content to it, why should the person be banned/warned?
The list can go on, but these are a few things I would like to see that would make the purchase of this "feature" a bit better.
You and I have seen this website grow in ways we couldn't have imagined when you first started it back in 2003. I remember signing up for the first time in 2004 when I was 13 and a stupid kid. You've seen me grow and I have seen you grow as well. I just would like to know that if I were to provide your source of income, that I would be able to get freedoms that I used to have in the past that basically will get me banned now.
not sure yet if I will buy it. I'll probably look into it again when the life-time purchase is possible and if that's at a reasonable price I'll probably buy it then
On June 22 2013 03:24 ShoCkeyy wrote: I just would like to know that if I were to provide your source of income, that I would be able to get freedoms that I used to have in the past that are basically will get me banned now.
As I mentioned the answer to that is no, and I believe for very good reasons.
On June 22 2013 03:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yea, must of just skimmed over that part and didn't notice. Either way, I think they should be able to get more privileges in posting standards since they are creating your new source of revenue...
You can think whatever you want of course, but it is a terrible idea to allow people to break all rules by paying for a premium.
Naz, I never said break all the rules, but I'm sure there a few rules that can be broken in terms of posting.
Example:
One Liners - As long as there is no insults, I don't see why this rule can't be broken in the regular forums.
Freedom of speech - One issue I've had with this site recently is when people post their opinions, they get banned or warned if no one else agrees. Yes this is TL house, but if some one is going to "pay", they should be allowed to now be able to post their opinion as long as it doesn't attack a person in a harmful way. I would like to be able to argue with a Mod on certain things with out being scared to get banned because of my views compared to that of the mods.
Image Posting - As long as the image relates to the thread, but they don't add any kind of content to it, why should the person be banned/warned?
The list can go on, but these are a few things I would like to see that would make the purchase of this "feature" a bit better.
You and I have seen this website grow in ways we couldn't have imagined when you first started it back in 2003. I remember signing up for the first time in 2004 when I was 13 and a stupid kid. You've seen me grow and I have seen you grow as well. I just would like to know that if I were to provide your source of income, that I would be able to get freedoms that I used to have in the past that basically will get me banned now.
Ok, so here is the problem. I would pay TL money to make it so you couldn't do those thing. I don't think people want to pay for more annoying forums.
Someone brought a similar topic up earlier but how come team icons and liquipedia coins don't stack?(why can't I have both when I post?) or do they alternate depending on the forum?
On June 22 2013 03:37 NovemberstOrm wrote: Someone brought a similar topic up earlier but how come team icons and liquipedia coins don't stack?(why can't I have both when I post?) or do they alternate depending on the forum?
Team icons only show in certain forums (this not being one of them).
Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
On June 22 2013 03:37 NovemberstOrm wrote: Someone brought a similar topic up earlier but how come team icons and liquipedia coins don't stack?(why can't I have both when I post?) or do they alternate depending on the forum?
Team icons only show in certain forums (this not being one of them).
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
the little orange circle means that user is a TL+ member
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
If a post you make is good enough for someone else to buy TL+ for you, then it will be be a gold bar instead of blue.
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
Check the first page, theres a post with a gold bar.
You can gift a TL member TL+ for a particularly good post, and that post will look like that in the future. It won't be every post a TL+ member has. You should be able to see the "Gift TL+" icon above every post right now.
On June 22 2013 03:36 Hondelul wrote: Just have to transfer money to paypal... 1-2 days it says. Perfect for me since I often have adblock on and the elephant makes me feel bad.
On June 22 2013 03:36 Hondelul wrote: Just have to transfer money to paypal... 1-2 days it says. Perfect for me since I often have adblock on and the elephant makes me feel bad.
On June 22 2013 03:36 Hondelul wrote: Just have to transfer money to paypal... 1-2 days it says. Perfect for me since I often have adblock on and the elephant makes me feel bad.
I think you can adblock elephant too.
You'd have to be an awful human being to do that, though.... right?
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
the little orange circle means that user is a TL+ member
Ooh I see but is it an other user (random guy) that gave the TL+ to the author of the post ? edit : the time I write this, it has been answered already^^ that's cool btw
On June 22 2013 03:41 E.L.V.I.S wrote: Hey, does someone care to explain this please : "If you are gifted TL+ for a specific post, the post itself will have a gold bar." My poor English understanding can't give any sense to it for some reason xD
the little orange circle means that user is a TL+ member
On June 22 2013 03:44 bilivaxyto wrote: did they edit all the first page comments or are some people actually thrilled about this useless money grabbing thing??
Some people like to support things they like, I think it's a good thing. Just like a twicht supsciption. You just have the good feeling of helping.
On June 22 2013 03:47 JethroSC wrote: What if I want TL+ but I want to keep the ads going? Making that possible would be great seeing as I'd love to support TL two ways if I could.
On June 22 2013 03:44 bilivaxyto wrote: did they edit all the first page comments or are some people actually thrilled about this useless money grabbing thing??
No people are thrilled, we like supporting good people. Not everyone is like you.
The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
On June 22 2013 03:47 JethroSC wrote: What if I want TL+ but I want to keep the ads going? Making that possible would be great seeing as I'd love to support TL two ways if I could.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
Report Posts is still available to 1 year + 1000 post users. View All has only ever worked on threads up to 50 pages, and still does. Nothing was taken away.
+ Small icon showing you are a TL+ member In the bottom right of your post you'll have a tiny plus indicating you are a TL+ member. Please don't use this as an excuse to act like you are superior to other users. You can feel free to secretly feel this way though.
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz. Don't we have enough of this already?
On June 22 2013 03:51 green.at wrote: Ability to report forum posts to moderators <- can do that now View all button (view 1000 forum posts on one page) <- can do that now
so what you are doing is taking away features from regular users (at least a few) and sell them as new features?
Private TL+ Forum <- that's almost as helpful as map DLC's in games
No features are taken away from regular users. The view all button will still be there for threads with <50 pages for regular users, just as now, and the requirements for regular users to gain the report button will remain the same.
On June 22 2013 03:52 tofucake wrote: Report Posts is still available to 1 year + 1000 post users. View All has only ever worked on threads up to 50 pages, and still does. Nothing was taken away.
It shows up for me (signed up April 2012). It doesn't show up over your post though
On June 22 2013 03:52 tofucake wrote: Report Posts is still available to 1 year + 1000 post users. View All has only ever worked on threads up to 50 pages, and still does. Nothing was taken away.
It shows up for me (signed up April 2012). It doesn't show up over your post though
This is unchanged, people have never been able to report staff posts.
On June 22 2013 03:52 tofucake wrote: Report Posts is still available to 1 year + 1000 post users. View All has only ever worked on threads up to 50 pages, and still does. Nothing was taken away.
Ok, so it's just not explained very well. Still don't like the exclusive forum idea, is it like "only for TL+ users" or more like "I invite only people I like to this forum"?
On June 22 2013 03:52 tofucake wrote: Report Posts is still available to 1 year + 1000 post users. View All has only ever worked on threads up to 50 pages, and still does. Nothing was taken away.
Ok, so it's just not explained very well. Still don't like the exclusive forum idea, is it like "only for TL+ users" or more like "I invite only people I like to this forum"?
It's a sub forum that is limited to everyone with TL+.
I'm very impressed at the number of TL+ accounts already. Well done guys, and congratulations on the business TL! I'll propably get a month or so at some point, I'd like to support TL
Um will the be LRing and such going on in the private forum because that's really my only concern. If the majority of the current LR crew migrate to another section of the boards things could end up really messy and sad on the other side.
On June 22 2013 04:01 ladyumbra wrote: Um will the be LRing and such going on in the private forum because that's really my only concern. If the majority of the current LR crew migrate to another section of the boards things could end up really messy and sad on the other side.
I'll be honest, the features seem quite subpar relative to the pricing, and I'd imagine most people who buy this would do so to support TL and not for the features. Maybe you should consider adding things like improved FPL and liquibetting? Just my 2 cents.
On June 22 2013 04:01 ladyumbra wrote: Um will the be LRing and such going on in the private forum because that's really my only concern. If the majority of the current LR crew migrate to another section of the boards things could end up really messy and sad on the other side.
While I can't rule out the possibility of some game discussion happening in the private forum, I seriously doubt the LR crew will abandon SC2 tourneys
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
Have you read any of nazgul's posts responding to the exact request that TL+ purchasers have some kind of mod immunity? He's pretty clearly against it.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
It clearly says that they will ban you if you are TL+ if you make a banworthy post. The rules in TL+ are a lot more lax (like you probably won't get banned for one-liners and such - disclaimer: I am not a mod so don't use that against me ) but outside public TL you can't post a bunch of racist things and expect not to get banned because you bought TL+
Also a tip for adblock, block it for the stream subpage teamliquid.net/stream or whatever it is if you want to block stream ads. that way TL still gets the ad revenue from the normal site visits and you don't have to deal with 5 minute twitch ads or w/e.
Well, this is a great thing - I'll be happy to support TL anyway I can
A question : Could you make someway that TL+ members can keep up with all the posts that have awarded someone with +? I think that'd be a neat feature and also a way in which you could see what is currently hip on TL
This sounds like a really good idea, especially since those who don't purchase TL+ don't lose anything. I'll probably buy it for a year once I get back from vacation and can spend more time on TL ^^
Question: Do your posts only show that orange and white TL+ plus sign if you're a current TL+ user? As in, will it go away if your subscription runs out and you don't re-buy it?
Sounds like good idea! However, I do have to ask whether if there is better interface for offering TL+ to someone else? Maybe it's me not being used to it yet but presence of 'Gift TL+' on every post is bit bothersome.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I know it works for Somethingawful forums, though I have no idea of what moderation is like there since I never bothered to buy one.
On June 22 2013 04:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This sounds like a really good idea, especially since those who don't purchase TL+ don't lose anything. I'll probably buy it for a year once I get back from vacation and can spend more time on TL ^^
Question: Do your posts only show that orange and white TL+ plus sign if you're a current TL+ user? As in, will it go away if your subscription runs out and you don't re-buy it?
Yes, the orange + only remains for as long as your TL+ subscription. Individual posts that have been gifted TL+ will always remain highlighted regardless of the poster's status.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
Have you read any of nazgul's posts responding to the exact request that TL+ purchasers have some kind of mod immunity? He's pretty clearly against it.
I read it and I even believe him right now. Still, I have experienced things like this in the past and views on certain points can (often "will") change.
TL is my online to-go-place and I hope this site will be around for a very long time. Because of that I write my concerns down. What will happen with the extra dollars TL will take in? Hire some vivid TL users and pay them fulltime? perfect! for now. What if TL generates less money in the future and they need to ban some tl+ customers with the risk to lose them, which might lead to the decision to fire a befriended coworker. They wont fire the friend, so they wont ban the tl+ customers. I´m not talking about the 100% obvious bans, but the subtleties.
And I dont only see the problem with the bans. What if tl+ customers that used to post the regular forums get pissed off by some users and only use the private forum from that point on. I know some other forums where coremembers used to do that and the websites lost all the other members over the time of months and years, which lead to their insignificance.
Whelp, on the one hand I love TL and want to support it, but on the other, the pricing is pretty damn terrible, 30$ a year is really expensive for what you are getting
On June 22 2013 04:24 Prog455 wrote: Is it possible to pay without using PayPal?
Currently only PayPal is accepted.
ARG, why? I mean...damn it. Well you guys need to update that. Paypal and my bank do not get along. I think Paypal slept with my banks daughter or something like that.
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, About about "TL*" which lets you browse a secret forum that not even MODS can see????????? At a price of 500€ per month im sure you would still get peole to buy. HoHoHo!
Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
On June 22 2013 04:24 zul wrote:What if tl+ customers that used to post the regular forums get pissed off by some users and only use the private forum from that point on.
You overestimate the private forum
it's a single subforum. There's no TL+ SC2 forum, or TL+ BW forum
There's just TL+. It's not going to suck away membership from the rest of the site.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
Have you read any of nazgul's posts responding to the exact request that TL+ purchasers have some kind of mod immunity? He's pretty clearly against it.
I read it and I even believe him right now. Still, I have experienced things like this in the past and views on certain points can (often "will") change.
TL is my online to-go-place and I hope this site will be around for a very long time. Because of that I write my concerns down. What will happen with the extra dollars TL will take in? Hire some vivid TL users and pay them fulltime? perfect! for now. What if TL generates less money in the future and they need to ban some tl+ customers with the risk to lose them, which might lead to the decision to fire a befriended coworker. They wont fire the friend, so they wont ban the tl+ customers. I´m not talking about the 100% obvious bans, but the subtleties.
And I dont only see the problem with the bans. What if tl+ customers that used to post the regular forums get pissed off by some users and only use the private forum from that point on. I know some other forums where coremembers used to do that and the websites lost all the other members over the time of months and years, which lead to their insignificance.
The moderation will remain the same because it's part of the USP (Unique Selling Point) of TL. So one person paying TL+ vs all the negativity that would come from allowing someone to go unmoderated when they should be does not add up. So I think you can rest assured about the TL Moderation will remain as it is.
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
I didn't see that when I bought it, I doubt it's US only. All you need is a Paypal account.
On June 22 2013 04:24 zul wrote:What if tl+ customers that used to post the regular forums get pissed off by some users and only use the private forum from that point on.
You overestimate the private forum
it's a single subforum. There's no TL+ SC2 forum, or TL+ BW forum
There's just TL+. It's not going to suck away membership from the rest of the site.
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
That's weird, it should not be doing that. It should have an option for country. If you are logging into a PayPal account, that account may already be registered to a certain country, but you can checkout with just a credit card too:
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
Paypal works in Sweden too. I'd go to https://www.paypal.com/se to try and sign up for an account though.
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
That's weird, it should not be doing that. It should have an option for country. If you are logging into a PayPal account, that account may already be registered to a certain country, but you can checkout with just a credit card too:
Rich, are you guys going to offer something thats no Paypal in the future? I want give you money, but my bank and paypal do not get along and I don't want to open another account just to give you folks +$30.
While not being a fan of pay only features, this is the way to go imho. Pure adds will not cut it on the internet anymore and I think this is a wise move in general and the features are not something that locks out people who won't buy. Only real critique is that it seems a bit too expensive. I guess you might have calculated that it works out better (higher price, less buyers), because many people will just buy it to support anyways; so what do I know.
Let's say that you buy a year-long membership (which I did), and the lifelong membership comes out within the next year. Will I be able to upgrade at a lower price than say a new TL+ buyer or will everyone be on the same footing?
Also in the news: Players are sending "get well twitters" to a fan of esports who seemingly went insane while trying to actually view content on the Internet. Some reporters were horrified as they found 20 or more receipts, not counting forum access. Some speculate he was desperately sorting his receipts to complain about a black screen while his big idol was playing.
Our reporters arrived at the scene just as he wrestled himself away from two policemen and sprinted towards a car from the local television station. The poor reporter inside looked on in horror as he wrote "Remember Lim Yo Hw.." in his own blood on the windshield. The raging fan was then hindered sligthly as the reporter inside the vehicle came to his senses and started spraying him with wiper fluid.
Not able to complete his ramblings, he was pacified and rushed away to what we believe is an institution for patients with little or no hope of recovery.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
Have you read any of nazgul's posts responding to the exact request that TL+ purchasers have some kind of mod immunity? He's pretty clearly against it.
I read it and I even believe him right now. Still, I have experienced things like this in the past and views on certain points can (often "will") change.
TL is my online to-go-place and I hope this site will be around for a very long time. Because of that I write my concerns down. What will happen with the extra dollars TL will take in? Hire some vivid TL users and pay them fulltime? perfect! for now. What if TL generates less money in the future and they need to ban some tl+ customers with the risk to lose them, which might lead to the decision to fire a befriended coworker. They wont fire the friend, so they wont ban the tl+ customers. I´m not talking about the 100% obvious bans, but the subtleties.
And I dont only see the problem with the bans. What if tl+ customers that used to post the regular forums get pissed off by some users and only use the private forum from that point on. I know some other forums where coremembers used to do that and the websites lost all the other members over the time of months and years, which lead to their insignificance.
The moderation will remain the same because it's part of the USP (Unique Selling Point) of TL. So one person paying TL+ vs all the negativity that would come from allowing someone to go unmoderated when they should be does not add up. So I think you can rest assured about the TL Moderation will remain as it is.
Except that it would probably go unnoticed unless someone is being really blatant about it. While nothing drastic is going to change, it will be interesting to see just how big of a ban-shield it is, as it seems highly improbable that it will have zero effect on moderators' judgement.
I like the gold bar feature for being gifted TL+. I think it would make it more likely for people to make higher quality submissions. And if someone is worthy of being highlighted with TL+, it makes it easy for everyone to see why it deserved that.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
Have you read any of nazgul's posts responding to the exact request that TL+ purchasers have some kind of mod immunity? He's pretty clearly against it.
I read it and I even believe him right now. Still, I have experienced things like this in the past and views on certain points can (often "will") change.
TL is my online to-go-place and I hope this site will be around for a very long time. Because of that I write my concerns down. What will happen with the extra dollars TL will take in? Hire some vivid TL users and pay them fulltime? perfect! for now. What if TL generates less money in the future and they need to ban some tl+ customers with the risk to lose them, which might lead to the decision to fire a befriended coworker. They wont fire the friend, so they wont ban the tl+ customers. I´m not talking about the 100% obvious bans, but the subtleties.
And I dont only see the problem with the bans. What if tl+ customers that used to post the regular forums get pissed off by some users and only use the private forum from that point on. I know some other forums where coremembers used to do that and the websites lost all the other members over the time of months and years, which lead to their insignificance.
The moderation will remain the same because it's part of the USP (Unique Selling Point) of TL. So one person paying TL+ vs all the negativity that would come from allowing someone to go unmoderated when they should be does not add up. So I think you can rest assured about the TL Moderation will remain as it is.
Except that it would probably go unnoticed unless someone is being really blatant about it. While nothing drastic is going to change, it will be interesting to see just how big of a ban-shield it is, as it seems highly improbable that it will have zero effect on moderators' judgement.
Considering how ultra subjective every moderated action can be, I'm pretty sure this won't be an issue. See the TL commandments. I dare anyone with TL+ to spoil game of thrones and see what happen
On June 22 2013 04:55 blizzind wrote: I like the gold bar feature for being gifted TL+. I think it would make it more likely for people to make higher quality submissions. And if someone is worthy of being highlighted with TL+, it makes it easy for everyone to see why it deserved that.
I agree, it´s perfect for people like this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418105 to give them a bit more than "thanks" (ok, he already has a star ^^) And it´s not cheap enough to highlight really stupid puns imo. That would be one of my concerns if it was $1 or so.
for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
Am getting the same issue.
Fucking Paypal :<
edit: Even when I try to pay without using my account, PP is still rejecting my transaction, guess I need to call my bank...
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
Am getting the same issue.
Fucking Paypal :<
There should be a way to pay with a credit card that lets you pick a country or something along those lines. R1CH made a post about it a little way back
Would be nice if you guys found a way to give something back to the community, too, especially with this new source of income. You know, like in the old times.
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
Am getting the same issue.
Fucking Paypal :<
There should be a way to pay with a credit card that lets you pick a country or something along those lines. R1CH made a post about it a little way back
Yeah, still getting rejected when I do that, will have to call me bank on Monday.
On June 22 2013 04:27 Bourneq wrote: Tried to buy it, forced me to pick what state I live in. And no way to get around it, so this is only for americans or am I an idiot? So I lied and said I was from Philly but then it said my creditcard was invalid. I'm reduced to tears.
Am getting the same issue.
Fucking Paypal :<
There should be a way to pay with a credit card that lets you pick a country or something along those lines. R1CH made a post about it a little way back
Yeah, still getting rejected when I do that, will have to call me bank on Monday.
Weird.
Just so people see it, when you click to buy the account, there will be a page asking you to log in to your paypal account. You can scroll down and see "Don't have an Account?" click there and it will let you play with a debit or credit card.
Bought it not necessarily because I care for any of the features, but because I love the site (and the SC2 team, I know it's not really linked, but still ^^).
On June 22 2013 05:05 GloryOfAiur wrote: Aww no lifetime? The price is kind of expensive for anyone who doesn't have a job since its a recurring payment.
The Lifetime sub requires that you set up a pension for Hot_bid for life so he can continue to be Mr. Esports into old age. Once that is in place, you will never had to pay again.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
We love capitalism
Which would be dead if there were not Koreans (SC2) and Chinese (Dota2) playing and Europeans watching. Don't know what you are up to with your USA-USA-USA crap.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
I think it's a good thing, the cost may be a little high, but let's be realistic here - this website costs a fuckton of money to run per month, there is also the actual team to pay and send to events.
Yes the added featureset is a little...limited, but at the same time, you tell me another BW/SC2/Dota site that offers anywhere near the level of quality content that is available here.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
We love capitalism
I'm Dutch..
that fail ^^
especially muricans written in caps xD
I gladly support your site Nazgul considering how much time I spent here per day, just bought the 1month thing to test out the features, will most likely purchase year-long sub, next month then.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
On June 22 2013 03:49 zul wrote: The price totally surprises me. I thought it would be 1 dollar a month or something ... this is still only a forum.
Why is it visible to others that you pay for tl+, that might be the first step towards a two class society in here and I dont see why this will do any good.
You could easily just block the gold images with adblock
and you think everybody will do this? I highly doubt that. I would even go that far and imagine that if in doubt, mods wont ban a tl+ customer, whereas a regular tl user will get the ban. This will happen, because nobody wants to lose a paying customer.
I use addblock, even on TL. I tried unblocking it here, but switching through streams was such a pain in the ass, that I had to activate addblock again. Still, I actively want to support TL, so I ordered some clothes. That kind of support is only positive, whereas I see many problematic points within tl+ ...
Have you read any of nazgul's posts responding to the exact request that TL+ purchasers have some kind of mod immunity? He's pretty clearly against it.
I read it and I even believe him right now. Still, I have experienced things like this in the past and views on certain points can (often "will") change.
TL is my online to-go-place and I hope this site will be around for a very long time. Because of that I write my concerns down. What will happen with the extra dollars TL will take in? Hire some vivid TL users and pay them fulltime? perfect! for now. What if TL generates less money in the future and they need to ban some tl+ customers with the risk to lose them, which might lead to the decision to fire a befriended coworker. They wont fire the friend, so they wont ban the tl+ customers. I´m not talking about the 100% obvious bans, but the subtleties.
And I dont only see the problem with the bans. What if tl+ customers that used to post the regular forums get pissed off by some users and only use the private forum from that point on. I know some other forums where coremembers used to do that and the websites lost all the other members over the time of months and years, which lead to their insignificance.
The moderation will remain the same because it's part of the USP (Unique Selling Point) of TL. So one person paying TL+ vs all the negativity that would come from allowing someone to go unmoderated when they should be does not add up. So I think you can rest assured about the TL Moderation will remain as it is.
Except that it would probably go unnoticed unless someone is being really blatant about it. While nothing drastic is going to change, it will be interesting to see just how big of a ban-shield it is, as it seems highly improbable that it will have zero effect on moderators' judgement.
Considering how ultra subjective every moderated action can be, I'm pretty sure this won't be an issue. See the TL commandments. I dare anyone with TL+ to spoil game of thrones and see what happen
I've seen more Game of Thrones spoilers in ABL than anything else, shit is like a honeypot
On June 22 2013 05:25 Talionis wrote: I kinda miss the asian dating site ads on the sidebar now.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
We love capitalism
I'm Dutch..
that fail ^^
especially muricans written in caps xD
I gladly support your site Nazgul considering how much time I spent here per day, just bought the 1month thing to test out the features, will most likely purchase year-long sub, next month then.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
We love capitalism
I'm Dutch..
And Meat is Norwegian right? (also I thought you were a Swede, wth)
The idea of TL+ forum doesn't really swing to me, why'd I go on a forum where I wouldn't be able to get everybodies opinions etc, like people won't necessarily be more inclined to talk to you and make more friends that way, all the people I've gotten to know through TL has been through retardedly random circumstances so I don't see the point to it at all
I do see a point in supporting TL though, which I sure-as-hell would do if I actually had an income right now
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
We love capitalism
I'm Dutch..
And Meat is Norwegian right? (also I thought you were a Swede, wth)
The idea of TL+ forum doesn't really swing to me, why'd I go on a forum where I wouldn't be able to get everybodies opinions etc, like people won't necessarily be more inclined to talk to you and make more friends that way, all the people I've gotten to know through TL has been through retardedly random circumstances so I don't see the point to it at all
I do see a point in supporting TL though, which I sure-as-hell would do if I actually had an income right now
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
So if I buy this, I can repeatedly insult the unwashed masses of normal users without fear of being banned? No, you jerk. TL+ users will largely be moderated the same way as normal users, and will be held to the same posting standards. The TL+ private forums however may have slightly less strict moderation when it comes to thread and post content. If you buy TL+ for yourself or gift it to others, you are just purchasing some added features and access while supporting TL. It is not a get-out-of-ban free card or a way to feel superior to others.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
We love capitalism
I'm Dutch..
Oh, god that should be a quote in the next TL newspaper (you know, not the Pitchfork Reporter, the other whose name i never remember )
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
We love capitalism
I'm Dutch..
Oh, god that should be a quote in the next TL newspaper (you know, not the Pitchfork Reporter, the other whose name i never remember )
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
If you don't want tl+ members to feel superior then giving them a golden plus purely for cosmetics is a bad idea.
Other than that, this seems good. The exclusive forums I'm not so sure about but I would hope that people would be more interested in discussing things with the broader pool of people despite their existence.
On June 22 2013 05:52 ACrow wrote: I got a question: if you want to gift someone with TL+ that already has it, it will stack with his time and prolong it by the correct amount, right?
Yes. For example if a post has a single plus sign showing, this means it was gifted one month. However, he can also receive a 6 month gift (6 plus signs showing) or 5 individual 1 month gifts (5 plus signs showing). Etc.
Sounds real cool. I'd like to purchase this given how often I visit teamliquid.net (at least once a day), but the initial price is sadly something I have to pass up considering my budget and other e-sports purchases, such as my GOMTV + Proleague subscriptions.
Perhaps in the future if either the price drops a bit, or you guys offer add a new feature that I can't live without :D
Something I've been wondering about for awhile, that came to mind again with the launch of this feature. How much, if any, of the revenue from TL.net goes to the TL pro teams? And what do i support if i buy this feature, the community site, or the teams, or both?
I'm partially annoyed at some of the features none TL+ users get. Like that private TL forum. Mostly I'm a little annoyed because I've bought a poster and a t-shirt which adds up to around $28 and I don't adblock TL. So I feel I've done my part in supporting TL but I still don't get these bonus features. I feel like if you've already given money to TL you should get TL+. I don't know if thats actually technically possible though, I don't really understand databases.
On June 22 2013 05:59 PrivateJimmy wrote: If you don't want tl+ members to feel superior then giving them a golden plus purely for cosmetics is a bad idea.
Other than that, this seems good. The exclusive forums I'm not so sure about but I would hope that people would be more interested in discussing things with the broader pool of people despite their existence.
Honestly I'm a bit disappointed TL. I didn't expect this of you. When I first read this I had to check whether it's April Fools'. I though this website would be absolutely the LAST place on the web to divide and segregate people. I guess the guy selling the kickass 1st TL shirts (with the pony with the flag scarf and SC units as grass) was right when he said you guys went too commercialized.
Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
Err there have been multiple people asking for a method to support TL w/o ads. Its not like anything changed for some without plus, and plus members get some rreaaaally silly stuff.
For the common user, there is absolutely no difference.
On June 22 2013 06:29 Cele wrote: will there be a TL+ forum section for BW?
There's a BW Discussion thread in TL+
TL+ is its own independent subforum, similar to how there is a TL Community section in General
great. There is only like 10 people posting in BW forums anyway, so lets split it up even more.
It's not going to replace the BW section, it's more of a "let's talk about general shit that's happening in BW"
TL+ is not going to replace sections, it's more...message boardy than a traditional forum
example: I could go post "hey did you guys see the shuttle vs movie games the other day" which in itself isn't a thread-worthy post but it fits well in a "general discussion" topic.
TL+ isn't going to kill off or divert traffic from any forums that isn't already off of it.
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
TL has full time paid employees. TL has to get the staff and coverage people to events, plus they have players to pay. I'm not going to speak on their behalf but I'm guessing that Ads and sponsors don't cover the costs.
Can you imagine the costs of running a site of this size? That's not cheap either.
It's not greed. You aren't being forced to do it. Adblocking because of TL+ just proves you're really cynical more than anything else. You lose absolutely nothing by not buying TL+. You get TL+ because you support TL. If they said "oh non TL+ members can only post 5 times per day then yes we could be upset and hate the site owners for the feature.
There's a lot of people making a huge deal about something that doesn't effect anyone unless they are going to buy it. If you're really that upset about not getting access to the features then maybe you should shell out a whole 3 dollars to try it out for a month and see if you're really missing out as much as you think you are.
This kind of makes me sad. The reason I got into TL was because everyone was equal and the only special privileges were those given to people who had done enough to deserve the respect of the community, not because they were willing to spend more money than the next guy.
On June 22 2013 06:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This kind of makes me sad. The reason I got into TL was because everyone was equal and the only special privileges were those given to people who had done enough to deserve the respect of the community, not because they were willing to spend more money than the next guy.
This destroys a lot of that feeling for me.
I commend you for having a reasonable opinion against TL+
Anyhow, I don't think there is going to be that drastic of a difference. No one is going to take a TL+ user's opinion more seriously because they have a + in their sigbar.
Almost any site has a "donation" or "supporting member" forum of some sort. I'm on three other non-gaming forums and all three of them have a "give us ten bucks and we'll give you a cool icon/colored name and access to a donor only forum!"
TL has never had a donation link or option in the past and I bet if they did this would not be at all talked about
On June 22 2013 06:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This kind of makes me sad. The reason I got into TL was because everyone was equal and the only special privileges were those given to people who had done enough to deserve the respect of the community, not because they were willing to spend more money than the next guy.
This destroys a lot of that feeling for me.
I commend you for having a reasonable opinion against TL+
Anyhow, I don't think there is going to be that drastic of a difference. No one is going to take a TL+ user's opinion more seriously because they have a + in their sigbar.
Almost any site has a "donation" or "supporting member" forum of some sort. I'm on three other non-gaming forums and all three of them have a "give us ten bucks and we'll give you a cool icon/colored name and access to a donor only forum!"
TL has never had a donation link or option in the past and I bet if they did this would not be at all talked about
Ya I mean I would have no problem with a donation button that maybe gave an icon or something.
Its the additional features that bug me a bit. Getting respected enough to have access to the limited forums like the banling and mod forums created a mythical quality around them for me. Thats gone now.
On June 22 2013 06:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This kind of makes me sad. The reason I got into TL was because everyone was equal and the only special privileges were those given to people who had done enough to deserve the respect of the community, not because they were willing to spend more money than the next guy.
This destroys a lot of that feeling for me.
I commend you for having a reasonable opinion against TL+
Anyhow, I don't think there is going to be that drastic of a difference. No one is going to take a TL+ user's opinion more seriously because they have a + in their sigbar.
Almost any site has a "donation" or "supporting member" forum of some sort. I'm on three other non-gaming forums and all three of them have a "give us ten bucks and we'll give you a cool icon/colored name and access to a donor only forum!"
TL has never had a donation link or option in the past and I bet if they did this would not be at all talked about
Ya I mean I would have no problem with a donation button that maybe gave an icon or something.
Its the additional features that bug me a bit. Getting respected enough to have access to the limited forums like the banling and mod forums created a mythical quality around them for me. Thats gone now.
You'll get more respect for being a banling/coverage staff/gold coin liquipedia than TL+ I would wager. ^^
On June 22 2013 06:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This kind of makes me sad. The reason I got into TL was because everyone was equal (as long as their opinions coincided with Kwarks or else) and the only special privileges were those given to people who had done enough to deserve the respect of the community, not because they were willing to spend more money than the next guy.
On June 22 2013 06:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This kind of makes me sad. The reason I got into TL was because everyone was equal and the only special privileges were those given to people who had done enough to deserve the respect of the community, not because they were willing to spend more money than the next guy.
This destroys a lot of that feeling for me.
I commend you for having a reasonable opinion against TL+
Anyhow, I don't think there is going to be that drastic of a difference. No one is going to take a TL+ user's opinion more seriously because they have a + in their sigbar.
Almost any site has a "donation" or "supporting member" forum of some sort. I'm on three other non-gaming forums and all three of them have a "give us ten bucks and we'll give you a cool icon/colored name and access to a donor only forum!"
TL has never had a donation link or option in the past and I bet if they did this would not be at all talked about
Ya I mean I would have no problem with a donation button that maybe gave an icon or something.
Its the additional features that bug me a bit. Getting respected enough to have access to the limited forums like the banling and mod forums created a mythical quality around them for me. Thats gone now.
You know that the other hidden forums aren't gone right? the TL+ forum simply created an entirely new one. And I really don't think It's going to be too exclusive.
On topic, I'll probably buy 3 months to support TL but I'm not a fan of the filter button, mass PM and " show all " features being paid only. Sure no ads, donor forum, and store giveaways, the rest seem like things that everyone should have.
On June 22 2013 06:29 Cele wrote: will there be a TL+ forum section for BW?
There's a BW Discussion thread in TL+
TL+ is its own independent subforum, similar to how there is a TL Community section in General
great. There is only like 10 people posting in BW forums anyway, so lets split it up even more.
Well, that's probably because the game is nearly 15 years old and mostly everybody has moved on from it, even the kespa teams that made it great. So like many other games released in 1998 there's little to no following. I know it was awesome while it lasted but that era is over now.
As for people in this thread complaining about commercialization. Do you think all this stuff is free? do you think there are events with 25k prize pools because the owners like to donate to charity? This tl+ effects nobody that doesn't want to pay for it, so its fine. If you like team liquid enough to support them than do it, if you dont than dont.
I foresee some hilarious trolling gifts on bad posts coming in the future (maybe there's already some in this thread that I skipped?). But anyway, cool stuff, I'll probably grab a month to check it out!
Would anyone like to gift me a month of TL+? In exchange, I will offer the following services:
1. A reply to this thread indicating that you are a gentleman and a scholar
2. A one time redeemable coupon for me to reply to one of your posts saying how brilliant your post was. This is a great way to boost your self esteem. Example:
On June 22 2013 11:11 You wrote: Blah blah blah blah
What an amazing post! Rock on!
3. You get to choose the name of my firstborn child, provided that I ever have one, and that the mother of the child will not inflict any bodily harm on me. Restrictions: -No numbers, punctuation, special characters, or underscores -Random capitalization is okay -Would prefer if you did not select CombatEX as the name
On June 22 2013 07:33 Rad wrote: I foresee some hilarious trolling gifts on bad posts coming in the future (maybe there's already some in this thread that I skipped?). But anyway, cool stuff, I'll probably grab a month to check it out!
You should buy TL+ to get the All features so you can easily look up stuff like this. =D
How long before the forums get remodeled and we're just using Reddit2.0?
I'm okay with the idea of supporting TL and I understand that as the site grows, costs grow with it but there has to be a better way to handle it than this. Give me a donate button or something instead of this.
The features offered are moot because they don't offer any real value.
Can't believe I'm reading about people complaining about TL becoming commercialised! Seems like a cool service, sadly can't afford it just now (yeah, I know, it's really low cost... that's how bad things are atm).
I'll just continue to keep my adblock disabled in the meantime.
On June 22 2013 07:37 Seanza wrote: Can't believe I'm reading about people complaining about TL becoming commercialised! Seems like a cool service, sadly can't afford it just now (yeah, I know, it's really low cost... that's how bad things are atm).
I'll just continue to keep my adblock disabled in the meantime.
The idea of being able to gift TL+ to people for good posts is an awesome idea. I fully intend to buy it on monday, once I get a little money in my account :3
As somone who has been wishing (and has asked) a couple of times how to support TL for the wonderful site and work you guys do (obviously not including store purchases, already got them!) this is fantastic. Great work guys :D
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
On June 22 2013 07:35 Chairman Ray wrote: Would anyone like to gift me a month of TL+? In exchange, I will offer the following services:
1. A reply to this thread indicating that you are a gentleman and a scholar
2. A one time redeemable coupon for me to reply to one of your posts saying how brilliant your post was. This is a great way to boost your self esteem. Example:
On June 22 2013 11:11 You wrote: Blah blah blah blah
What an amazing post! Rock on!
3. You get to choose the name of my firstborn child, provided that I ever have one, and that the mother of the child will not inflict any bodily harm on me. Restrictions: -No numbers, punctuation, special characters, or underscores -Random capitalization is okay -Would prefer if you did not select CombatEX as the name
Great for TL, however personally I don't agree with that approach, but it is not my place. You can do whatever you want with your site I hope you will succeed in raising additional revenue. Nothing changes for "non plus members" so it's fair and well balanced policy. Good luck and keep being awesome
TL is the site I come for when I want to find a quality stream to watch... I don't really read the forums because it's mostly subjective opinions and outdated strategies, I don't see how TL+ can help me with this
On June 22 2013 07:33 Rad wrote: I foresee some hilarious trolling gifts on bad posts coming in the future (maybe there's already some in this thread that I skipped?). But anyway, cool stuff, I'll probably grab a month to check it out!
You should buy TL+ to get the All features so you can easily look up stuff like this. =D
Do you get any commission for that sale? =P Now off to find the secret forum...
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
TL has full time paid employees. TL has to get the staff and coverage people to events, plus they have players to pay. I'm not going to speak on their behalf but I'm guessing that Ads and sponsors don't cover the costs.
Can you imagine the costs of running a site of this size? That's not cheap either.
It's not greed. You aren't being forced to do it. Adblocking because of TL+ just proves you're really cynical more than anything else. You lose absolutely nothing by not buying TL+. You get TL+ because you support TL. If they said "oh non TL+ members can only post 5 times per day then yes we could be upset and hate the site owners for the feature.
There's a lot of people making a huge deal about something that doesn't effect anyone unless they are going to buy it. If you're really that upset about not getting access to the features then maybe you should shell out a whole 3 dollars to try it out for a month and see if you're really missing out as much as you think you are.
this sadly doesnt answer my question at all. i know running a good website like this cost sth but u also get sth back 4 it or not?? it worked for a long time before didnt it ? and running a sc2 and dota 2 team is costly isnt it ? how could they even start to do sth like this if they didnt make profit out of the website ? so im still w8ing for an argument why this is needed other then greed =) and again no offense im still loving TL and i have a huge respect for its owners,casue they have made sth that big and still im heavily dissapointed by this move. I dotn care if +members get much for their money or not this is the wrong way in my opinion
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
TL has full time paid employees. TL has to get the staff and coverage people to events, plus they have players to pay. I'm not going to speak on their behalf but I'm guessing that Ads and sponsors don't cover the costs.
Can you imagine the costs of running a site of this size? That's not cheap either.
It's not greed. You aren't being forced to do it. Adblocking because of TL+ just proves you're really cynical more than anything else. You lose absolutely nothing by not buying TL+. You get TL+ because you support TL. If they said "oh non TL+ members can only post 5 times per day then yes we could be upset and hate the site owners for the feature.
There's a lot of people making a huge deal about something that doesn't effect anyone unless they are going to buy it. If you're really that upset about not getting access to the features then maybe you should shell out a whole 3 dollars to try it out for a month and see if you're really missing out as much as you think you are.
this sadly doesnt answer my question at all. i know running a good website like this cost sth but u also get sth back 4 it or not?? it worked for a long time before didnt it ? and running a sc2 and dota 2 team is costly isnt it ? how could they even start to do sth like this if they didnt make profit out of the website ? so im still w8ing for an argument why this is needed other then greed =) and again no offense im still loving TL and i have a huge respect for its owners,casue they have made sth that big and still im heavily dissapointed by this move. I dotn care if +members get much for their money or not this is the wrong way in my opinion
While I don't know for certain, the injection they get from this will allow for future expansion. They might expand into LoL and acquire a team for them now with that money. Who knows?
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
I know this is off topic (btw <3 TL) but I always read progamer as 'programmer'. I was totally just like 'Nazgul worked on BW?' XD
On June 22 2013 08:08 Hier wrote: Are the months cumulative? If I buy X months, and then I buy more before expiry or someone gifts me months, will they just be added to my total?
Yes, everything is cumulative. Whether you renew early or get a new gift, there's no way to lose time.
On June 22 2013 08:14 Impervious wrote: I'd like to purchase 12 months of this to support TL, but Paypal won't let me purchase it without making an account with them because I'm in Canada.
I had a very bad experience with Paypal in the recent past, and I really do not want to use their service to do this :/ Is there any other way?
Unfortunately we only take PayPal right now. I was half seriously thinking about adding bitcoin support though .
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
no offense, but we heard the "well this site costs money, it's hard to just break even" argument quite a couple of times. It came up on various occasions, last time i recall was the opening of TL store. I don't buy it. Judging by TL's unique clicks per day and the estimated revenue of the shop and other cooperations, such as papa johns pizza deal and sponsored threads, i assume TL was making quite some (not naming any numbers) in profit before the introduction of TL+. And i did take into account that people get paid as well.
If this is hilarious to you, open up your finances to the users. I would be more inclined to support TL by such a feature if i knew this site was having a hard time on breaking even.
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
TL has full time paid employees. TL has to get the staff and coverage people to events, plus they have players to pay. I'm not going to speak on their behalf but I'm guessing that Ads and sponsors don't cover the costs.
Can you imagine the costs of running a site of this size? That's not cheap either.
It's not greed. You aren't being forced to do it. Adblocking because of TL+ just proves you're really cynical more than anything else. You lose absolutely nothing by not buying TL+. You get TL+ because you support TL. If they said "oh non TL+ members can only post 5 times per day then yes we could be upset and hate the site owners for the feature.
There's a lot of people making a huge deal about something that doesn't effect anyone unless they are going to buy it. If you're really that upset about not getting access to the features then maybe you should shell out a whole 3 dollars to try it out for a month and see if you're really missing out as much as you think you are.
this sadly doesnt answer my question at all. i know running a good website like this cost sth but u also get sth back 4 it or not?? it worked for a long time before didnt it ? and running a sc2 and dota 2 team is costly isnt it ? how could they even start to do sth like this if they didnt make profit out of the website ? so im still w8ing for an argument why this is needed other then greed =) and again no offense im still loving TL and i have a huge respect for its owners,casue they have made sth that big and still im heavily dissapointed by this move. I dotn care if +members get much for their money or not this is the wrong way in my opinion
your use of the word greed is incredibly obnoxious. i wish tl.net had done this years ago so that i could support them without having to view ads, or buying clothes i didnt really want.
I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
I think that this will result in lots of TL+ begging in the future. Anyway, interesting concept, seems pretty good in perpetuating its own advertising, as long as major features don't get taken away, this is okay with me.
I'm curious what the high secret exclusive forums are exclusive forums are like :p However I think I will keep support TL by simply keeping my adblock off and spend hours visiting TL everyday!
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
Poor male engineering student will striptease for membership? I dunno... I got nothing. D: Will eat snot for... too far?
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
errrrr... I think i see a problem with you saying this.
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
The fact that someone gave this guy TL+ mere minutes after the post was made is one of the many reasons I love TL
On June 22 2013 08:14 Impervious wrote: I'd like to purchase 12 months of this to support TL, but Paypal won't let me purchase it without making an account with them because I'm in Canada.
I had a very bad experience with Paypal in the recent past, and I really do not want to use their service to do this :/ Is there any other way?
Unfortunately we only take PayPal right now. I was half seriously thinking about adding bitcoin support though .
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
no offense, but we heard the "well this site costs money, it's hard to just break even" argument quite a couple of times. It came up on various occasions, last time i recall was the opening of TL store. I don't buy it. Judging by TL's unique clicks per day and the estimated revenue of the shop and other cooperations, such as papa johns pizza deal and sponsored threads, i assume TL was making quite some (not naming any numbers) in profit before the introduction of TL+. And i did take into account that people get paid as well.
If this is hilarious to you, open up your finances to the users. I would be more inclined to support TL by such a feature if i knew this site was having a hard time on breaking even.
I think you grossly underestimate what it takes for a site to "break even" if you include employee salaries. There are several full time staff members at TL, and not one of them lives beyond their means. In fact, the compensation level was enough for me to turn down full time work to pursue "a real job".
No business is going to open up their finances to you to show that they meet what you personally decide is the most noble. I'll spill the beans for you. Simply put, the quality of life for a full time TL employee is just-liveable.
This isn't a charity or some not-for-profit organization. People need to live their lives on the basis of the work. Do you "break even" at your job? Or do you expect to make some money so that you can afford to live your life?
Think ill wait abit longer before subscribing, already bought your mousemat as support not long ago. Maybe if there were some more features that I would use regularly, or there was a lifetime sub i'd consider it. Anyhow, Im glad the site still stays the same for non-subs, and I hope it stays that way.
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
i cant pay for it right now! please help me mr lawyer man.
I dunno what y'all are complaining about. The features are meh but it's a way to support my favorite NA Dota team. Best of all, the current user experience won't be changed at all, so this is really just a way for users and TL fans to give back to the organization for all the nice events and entertainment we've gotten over the years. I'll definitely be getting this as soon as I can afford it.
TL is more than a forum now as they own sc2 and dota 2 teams. Obviously TL.net will need extra income in order to maintain and branch to other games or improve site. People that are stil living in the early 2000s era need to adapt to reality l0l. If you want to support its cool, if not that's cool also.
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
This is an argument i can accept even though im not rly sure what to think about it. Again i want to mention that in no way im trying to insult u or any other owner/staff member. I know u started this website with the passion of ur heart and that´s the reason (at least i think so) why it got so big and why so many ppl LOVE this website. MB im too harsh and idealistic cause i love this site so much and spend so much time on it that my expectations get a little bit too high. I am just a student so i am in no position to judge the decisions a Owner of a (big) company like urs makes, neither can i fully understand them. Still i dont like these +Models which show up on almost every website nowadays and i thought TL has something better to offer. But the fact that i dont have a better solution myself to solve the money problems mb shows that either i am too naive or i have to work harder to find the solution im satisfied with and offer it to people i appreciate so much (like u =).
And yes i never thought u betrayed ur principles in terms of monetization. which is, in my opinion shown, in the fact that +members get (so little) for their money and all the other things u mentioned in ur post. Still i dont get the logic behind the argument that if sth gets bigger ( which is normally seen a good thing) it gets also more expensive. Mb there is sth rly wrong with our current economic system and its interaction with the Internet and websites like TL.
Anyway, last but not least, i wanted to thank u for creating something this beautiful and i hope u dont take my critics personal. I wish that mb one day i have the balls, chance and inspiration to make sth out of nothing like u did it with TL.
I can't really get behind this, just because of the TL+ member only forums, other than that I don't have too many issues with it. I don't have any revenue source to pay for this either, being an incoming college freshman, but when I do, I'll try it out for a month so I'm not guilty of sour grapes haha. I hope this goes well though, I want to see TL grow.
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
no offense, but we heard the "well this site costs money, it's hard to just break even" argument quite a couple of times. It came up on various occasions, last time i recall was the opening of TL store. I don't buy it. Judging by TL's unique clicks per day and the estimated revenue of the shop and other cooperations, such as papa johns pizza deal and sponsored threads, i assume TL was making quite some (not naming any numbers) in profit before the introduction of TL+. And i did take into account that people get paid as well.
If this is hilarious to you, open up your finances to the users. I would be more inclined to support TL by such a feature if i knew this site was having a hard time on breaking even.
He never said he had trouble breaking even. He has two pro teams, staff to pay, and a massive site that he must maintain. People have to live their lives. He's trying to do it in the most non-intrusive way possible and still people give TL shit about it. If you aren't going to support it, don't try to discourage others not to also just because you don't think TL should make more than you believe is "just".
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
Poor male engineering student will striptease for membership? I dunno... I got nothing. D: Will eat snot for... too far?
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
i cant pay for it right now! please help me mr lawyer man.
This is cool. It's often really hard for people to monetize things. The whole throwing money at the screen thing never works, but this is one way to at least give people that opportunity to throw money at TL.
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
no offense, but we heard the "well this site costs money, it's hard to just break even" argument quite a couple of times. It came up on various occasions, last time i recall was the opening of TL store. I don't buy it. Judging by TL's unique clicks per day and the estimated revenue of the shop and other cooperations, such as papa johns pizza deal and sponsored threads, i assume TL was making quite some (not naming any numbers) in profit before the introduction of TL+. And i did take into account that people get paid as well.
If this is hilarious to you, open up your finances to the users. I would be more inclined to support TL by such a feature if i knew this site was having a hard time on breaking even.
He never said he had trouble breaking even. He has two pro teams, staff to pay, and a massive site that he must maintain. People have to live their lives. He's trying to do it in the most non-intrusive way possible and still people give TL shit about it. If you aren't going to support it, don't try to discourage others not to also just because you don't think TL should make more than you believe is "just".
People like you are poison to any community.
yes, im poison to the community for disagreeing with you. i see.
I'm happy with this, now I get to kill 2 birds with 1 stone! I can feel safe browsing TL at work again because I won't see any suggestive Thai hooker ads, and I get to support the site I love even more :D
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
Poor male engineering student will striptease for membership? I dunno... I got nothing. D: Will eat snot for... too far?
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
i cant pay for it right now! please help me mr lawyer man.
enjoy
<3 you are amazing thank you, I'll send you the striptease video momentarily. Guys the secret forum is super super cool. Do not miss out. Come join movie night, and lots of fancy other stuff !!
I watched the video and I'm not entirely clear why I would buy such a thing. So basically you can like certain posts. Get access to a hidden forum similar to that of the admins/staff/etc. Send mass PMs. Guess we'll get first dibs on the shop as well as discounts. I don't know guys heh.
Team Liquid has been home to me for a long time, now. The site outage made me realize just how much this place matters to me. There is no place more incredible on the web.
I'll buy a subscription as soon as I can afford it.
On June 22 2013 09:13 yokohama wrote: I'm happy with this, now I get to kill 2 birds with 1 stone! I can feel safe browsing TL at work again because I won't see any suggestive Thai hooker ads, and I get to support the site I love even more :D
Haha, have to say part of the reason I paid is for the same reason. Some of the ads popping up made it awkward to browse at work.
On June 22 2013 08:22 oneill12 wrote: I don't have a source of revenue for now, being a student still but I would like to support TL this way in the future. Also in a country with living standards like mine a couple of bucks means way more than in others. Very hopeful that TL grows and I like TL+
you're my third gift. i will gift the next two people who would like to contribute but dont have the funds to do so.
+ Send PM's to multiple recipients Now you can mass PM all the moderators every day! But seriously don't do this or we will ban you.
I'm mostly all for this, but this, of all TL+ things, should seriously be a feature for any user (aside from accounts <1 month or something to prevent malicious user mass PM spam)
Trying to organize something amongst TL users usually ended up in adding them on skype previously (and still probably) and creating a group chat because you can't send PM's to multiple users. I feel shafted that this is now a possibility but not something worth paying for per se (my personal view of course). I mean most of them time I'm sending multiple PM's it's to benefit TL members or TL as a whole anyway t.t . I mean using skype like I do now works fine so nothing's been lost, I would just recommend this feature be available regardless.
Other than that the rest looks pretty neat!~
edit: Question that may have been answered in one of the many pages of this thread already, but...
Cool idea. I don't really have much of a reason to use the site a lot right now though. Once I have some extra money I'll probably do it to support the site.
+ TL Store Giveaways Each month we'll be giving away some free TL Store swag to some random lucky TL+ users. It's like winning $1,000,000 in the lottery, if $1,000,000 were a cool looking t-shirt or mousepad.
Is this limited to American users only? (I assume it is..)
*Sorry if this has been answered already in the thread*
+ TL Store Giveaways Each month we'll be giving away some free TL Store swag to some random lucky TL+ users. It's like winning $1,000,000 in the lottery, if $1,000,000 were a cool looking t-shirt or mousepad.
Is this limited to American users only? (I assume it is..)
+ TL Store Giveaways Each month we'll be giving away some free TL Store swag to some random lucky TL+ users. It's like winning $1,000,000 in the lottery, if $1,000,000 were a cool looking t-shirt or mousepad.
Is this limited to American users only? (I assume it is..)
*Sorry if this has been answered already in the thread*
Interesting. I'd purchase lifetime membership, but i'm not a big fan of subscriptions. But i understand a lifetime membership method wouldn't get you guys as much revenue in the long term
I'm not paying because of the benefits, but because of the respect of all the work the teamliquid crew puts up in this. And this is the laziest way to contribute
You guys should give TL+ users colored SC2 icons instead of gold bars, they're less distracting and more cool that way :D
TL+ users do not get gold bars. Only posts that users receive TL+ for get a gold bar, which I don't think will be as frequent, as each user largely will only really receive it once.
Even though I've been reading that part 10 times, I still don't understnad what's that supposed to mean... T______T Who exactly is getting the gold bar ? oO Cauz that bolded part is confusing.
On June 22 2013 10:18 0x64 wrote: I'm not paying because of the benefits, but because of the respect of all the work the teamliquid crew puts up in this. And this is the laziest way to contribute
Will pretty much do the same since i've blocked the ad for a long time because of those progamers' streams abusing it.
On June 22 2013 09:13 yokohama wrote: I'm happy with this, now I get to kill 2 birds with 1 stone! I can feel safe browsing TL at work again because I won't see any suggestive Thai hooker ads, and I get to support the site I love even more :D
Haha, have to say part of the reason I paid is for the same reason. Some of the ads popping up made it awkward to browse at work.
Plus I'm happy to support TL, of course.
You guys know the adds you get served depend on your google history, for the most part, right?
On June 22 2013 09:13 yokohama wrote: I'm happy with this, now I get to kill 2 birds with 1 stone! I can feel safe browsing TL at work again because I won't see any suggestive Thai hooker ads, and I get to support the site I love even more :D
Haha, have to say part of the reason I paid is for the same reason. Some of the ads popping up made it awkward to browse at work.
Plus I'm happy to support TL, of course.
You guys know the adds you get served depend on your google history, for the most part, right?
I'll swear on my life I've never googled "columbian mail order brides"
You guys should give TL+ users colored SC2 icons instead of gold bars, they're less distracting and more cool that way :D
TL+ users do not get gold bars. Only posts that users receive TL+ for get a gold bar, which I don't think will be as frequent, as each user largely will only really receive it once.
Even though I've been reading that part 10 times, I still don't understnad what's that supposed to mean... T______T Who exactly is getting the gold bar ? oO Cauz that bolded part is confusing.
On June 22 2013 10:18 0x64 wrote: I'm not paying because of the benefits, but because of the respect of all the work the teamliquid crew puts up in this. And this is the laziest way to contribute
Will pretty much do the same since i've blocked the ad for a long time because of those progamers' streams abusing it.
If Ken really likes a post that Matt makes, then Ken can buy TL+ for Matt. That post by Matt will get a gold bar, and he'll get TL+. For an example of the gold bar, just look near the top of last page.
On June 22 2013 04:01 ladyumbra wrote: Um will the be LRing and such going on in the private forum because that's really my only concern. If the majority of the current LR crew migrate to another section of the boards things could end up really messy and sad on the other side.
Don't worry. If people leave I'll just have to up my workload to make up for it I'll be there for you
+ TL Store Giveaways Each month we'll be giving away some free TL Store swag to some random lucky TL+ users. It's like winning $1,000,000 in the lottery, if $1,000,000 were a cool looking t-shirt or mousepad.
Is this limited to American users only? (I assume it is..)
*Sorry if this has been answered already in the thread*
It's not limited to any country or region
So if I won a random gift, for example, you guys would ship it to where-ever I am? - In this case, Australia.
I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
+ Filter button (view all posts by a single person in a thread) By clicking on this button you can see all the posts made by a single user in a thread. It's also extremely useful for stalking people.
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
So noone should spend their money on what they want because there are people dying somewhere in the world? How do you sleep at night knowing your money went to paying for your internet instead of to someone dying in a 3rd world country? Shame on you.
On June 22 2013 11:25 Misacampo wrote: + Filter button (view all posts by a single person in a thread) By clicking on this button you can see all the posts made by a single user in a thread. It's also extremely useful for stalking people.
This should be free...
To quote the OP...
Why didn't all these features exist already for free? We've actually considered this quite a bit in the past. The reason is these features can't really be justified for all users for various reasons, like server load, spam concerns, or cost. As for the future, rest assured, if a feature is "core" to TL users we won't be making it premium-only, and we'll continue to improve the site for everyone as we've always done.
The way the forum software works, if everyone could filter, it would kill the server. It's the same reason why All can't be a feature for everyone as well.
"+ Private TL+ Forum - In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams."
I can tell how this'll look already: like a bunch of stuffed up executive-looking men with stuffy airs and glasses of Merlot swirling in crystal goblets, each discussing "sophisticated" topics to one another with a "refined" demeanor.
dAPhREAk: Ohhh, did you hear about the recent GSL Finals, my boy? I dare say, throughout the entire Live Report thread, KwarK delivered a number of strict bans in convincing fashion. Caihead: H'indeed, dear good sir! 'Twas a wonder users continued to whine and complain about Zergs who happened to quilt. both: Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
[/kidding]
I've wanted to monetarily support TL for awhile now. I will strongly consider this avenue.
On a more serious note its about time that TL introduced this to the website. An optional subscription based membership not only gives the website the an ability to offer more stuff that otherwise would not be possible due to heavy serverload etc, but it will also show who the people are that really seems to appreciate the website (enough to pay for it) and they should do something with that information This is common practice for really large websites that uses a business model, such as the Authority model.
I like this a lot.. never saw any ads here and never bothered to find out how to tell my brower to not filter TL ads so this is a nice way of supporting TL directly.
On June 22 2013 11:25 Misacampo wrote: + Filter button (view all posts by a single person in a thread) By clicking on this button you can see all the posts made by a single user in a thread. It's also extremely useful for stalking people.
Why didn't all these features exist already for free? We've actually considered this quite a bit in the past. The reason is these features can't really be justified for all users for various reasons, like server load, spam concerns, or cost. As for the future, rest assured, if a feature is "core" to TL users we won't be making it premium-only, and we'll continue to improve the site for everyone as we've always done.
The way the forum software works, if everyone could filter, it would kill the server. It's the same reason why All can't be a feature for everyone as well.
Judging from the way people are gifting and actually doing it (because everyone just wants to support the site so much apparently) it's probably going to happen anyway. I guess that's what R1CH was testing over the last week or so.
On June 22 2013 12:06 imJealous wrote: I don't think I need any of these features but it will be fun to have something we can throw around at people as rewards for making awesome posts.
That's what the star icon and green text (or whatever text it is in the strategy forum is for).
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
On June 22 2013 11:44 cLAN.Anax wrote: "+ Private TL+ Forum - In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams."
I can tell how this'll look already: like a bunch of stuffed up executive-looking men with stuffy airs and glasses of Merlot swirling in crystal goblets, each discussing "sophisticated" topics to one another with a "refined" demeanor.
dAPhREAk: Ohhh, did you hear about the recent GSL Finals, my boy? I dare say, throughout the entire Live Report thread, KwarK delivered a number of strict bans in convincing fashion. Caihead: H'indeed, dear good sir! 'Twas a wonder users continued to whine and complain about Zergs who happened to quilt. both: Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
[/kidding]
I've wanted to monetarily support TL for awhile now. I will strongly consider this avenue.
this truly is an alternative reality if caihead and i agree on something.....o.O
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
no offense, but we heard the "well this site costs money, it's hard to just break even" argument quite a couple of times. It came up on various occasions, last time i recall was the opening of TL store. I don't buy it. Judging by TL's unique clicks per day and the estimated revenue of the shop and other cooperations, such as papa johns pizza deal and sponsored threads, i assume TL was making quite some (not naming any numbers) in profit before the introduction of TL+. And i did take into account that people get paid as well.
If this is hilarious to you, open up your finances to the users. I would be more inclined to support TL by such a feature if i knew this site was having a hard time on breaking even.
He never said he had trouble breaking even. He has two pro teams, staff to pay, and a massive site that he must maintain. People have to live their lives. He's trying to do it in the most non-intrusive way possible and still people give TL shit about it. If you aren't going to support it, don't try to discourage others not to also just because you don't think TL should make more than you believe is "just".
People like you are poison to any community.
I don't get it, his opinion differed from yours and he is a poison to the community? Elaborate please.
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
The guy does make a good point though. I'm all for gifting the guy from Alberta who pretty much lost everything in the flood, but my lord look at all that charity. I hope some of you donate to good causes at the same time.
On June 22 2013 11:44 cLAN.Anax wrote: "+ Private TL+ Forum - In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams."
I can tell how this'll look already: like a bunch of stuffed up executive-looking men with stuffy airs and glasses of Merlot swirling in crystal goblets, each discussing "sophisticated" topics to one another with a "refined" demeanor.
dAPhREAk: Ohhh, did you hear about the recent GSL Finals, my boy? I dare say, throughout the entire Live Report thread, KwarK delivered a number of strict bans in convincing fashion. Caihead: H'indeed, dear good sir! 'Twas a wonder users continued to whine and complain about Zergs who happened to quilt. both: Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
[/kidding]
I've wanted to monetarily support TL for awhile now. I will strongly consider this avenue.
That conversation sounds like it would happen in the automated ban list thread more than the TL+ forum. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that the TL+ forum will soon become a carbon copy of the entirety of teamliquid.
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
The guy does make a good point though. I'm all for gifting the guy from Alberta who pretty much lost everything in the flood, but my lord look at all that charity. I hope some of you donate to good causes at the same time.
Maybe I'm alone here but I don't feel like I'm making a charitable donation, I feel like I'm giving back to TL for being a site that I use so frequently. Sure I could buy 3 months worth for myself, but I find it more fun to buy 1 month worth for myself and gift two months to quality posters/people I like.
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
The guy does make a good point though. I'm all for gifting the guy from Alberta who pretty much lost everything in the flood, but my lord look at all that charity. I hope some of you donate to good causes at the same time.
Maybe I'm alone here but I don't feel like I'm making a charitable donation, I feel like I'm giving back to TL for being a site that I use so frequently. Sure I could buy 3 months worth for myself, but I find it more fun to buy 1 month worth for myself and gift two months to quality posters/people I like.
I think it's really interesting to compare the income structures TL is adopting with those of other media outlets (can I call you that?). In an era where contemporary news sources are scrambling to figure out the best way to wean money from digital media to keep on keepin' on (paywalls, in particular), TL has the unique advantages of being born and bred in a purely digital format, and a fantastic fan base (significantly more useful than customer base).
The economics and sociology of TL are just so darn fascinating.
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
The guy does make a good point though. I'm all for gifting the guy from Alberta who pretty much lost everything in the flood, but my lord look at all that charity. I hope some of you donate to good causes at the same time.
that wasnt a good point at all. thats like saying you should stop posting on tl.net because you are wasting time that you could be using for soup kitchens and other charitable organizations. for shame starstruck, what is wrong with you? why are you donating your time to worthless endeavors?????
Hahaha I'm just scrolling trough this - there are soooo many + already! Mission successful. Looks like you get a blue + if you gift a lot of +, as well. The OP was very nicely worded to nudge you in the right direction. xD
Too bad it'll have to wait till I start working... I wouldn't get it for the features, as I don't really need those (lol I could code those for myself if I really wanted them XD), I would buy it to support TL.
I wouldn't mind a slightly higher price if it meant more compelling features.
I also don't see what's wrong with an unobtrusive donate button. Something that you can click on if you want rather than something that pops up every time you log in saying SUPPORT TL YOU DONKEY! OKAY - NO THANKS.
Bought it for a month. Mainly to support TL, but multiperson PM and a "view all" button for large threads are pretty nifty. Also brb. Checking out the secret forums
At first I was surprised by the cost, I figured it might be $1 a month. I still got a year subscription. It's not like 57cents a week is going to kill me and it'd be nice to see TL run a larger full-time staff and pay the existing ones more for all their hard work.
In my head I fear that $29.95 might net 1 000 subscribers vs $12 netting 10 000. I hope I'm wrong though .
On June 22 2013 03:07 zerotol wrote: Next step pay to post
I am extremely disappointed by this decision. Doesn't make TL have enough money with the merchandising and the sponsors?
Decline of Teamliquid.
I for one hope not a lot of people pay for this. I won't ever pay for this anyway.
edit: looks like the pay to post already started:
+ Private TL+ Forum In this private forum, all TL+ members will become best friends. What will be in this forum? What does your heart tell you? Follow your dreams.
So tempting to just gift this person so he can't avoid it.
On June 22 2013 04:59 Nakama wrote: for me this seems like a big step backwards but who can blame tl many other internet sites are doing it nowadays.. capitalism 4tw... thats why i am always laughing about ppl saying our society progresses forward... its not like u have to pay 4 sth that was free before but NOW u have to pay for new features which is in fact the same . TL started as a community page and got this many members due to many ppl doing stuff for free and when they get big they somehow feel the need to make even more money.... i will never get the logic behind this if its not only greed
In case you didn't know, this is an AMERICAN website, made by AMERICANS for an AMERICAN made game.
I've always read about some existing private forums on Teamliquid for long time members or something, maybe that's what they mean by private forums, and not like some super forums just for TL+ members?
Awesome initiative and I love the parallels to Reddit Gold. The gifting feature is the best part I think so we can reward members for just being awesome in a more meaningful way.
On June 22 2013 15:24 lisward wrote: I've always read about some existing private forums on Teamliquid for long time members or something, maybe that's what they mean by private forums, and not like some super forums just for TL+ members?
The TL+ forum is just another forum where you can create a thread and discuss anything, It's not a set of forums for sc2 dota2 league of legends etc. And yes there are hidden forums for TL staff, there's one for writers, Liquipedia staff, moderators, where they can discuss their work and projects.
I don't care much about the features although they are nice, I just like seeing an easy way to support you guys for all the AMAZING hard work you all put in, im in.
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
TL has full time paid employees. TL has to get the staff and coverage people to events, plus they have players to pay. I'm not going to speak on their behalf but I'm guessing that Ads and sponsors don't cover the costs.
Can you imagine the costs of running a site of this size? That's not cheap either.
It's not greed. You aren't being forced to do it. Adblocking because of TL+ just proves you're really cynical more than anything else. You lose absolutely nothing by not buying TL+. You get TL+ because you support TL. If they said "oh non TL+ members can only post 5 times per day then yes we could be upset and hate the site owners for the feature.
There's a lot of people making a huge deal about something that doesn't effect anyone unless they are going to buy it. If you're really that upset about not getting access to the features then maybe you should shell out a whole 3 dollars to try it out for a month and see if you're really missing out as much as you think you are.
this sadly doesnt answer my question at all. i know running a good website like this cost sth but u also get sth back 4 it or not?? it worked for a long time before didnt it ? and running a sc2 and dota 2 team is costly isnt it ? how could they even start to do sth like this if they didnt make profit out of the website ? so im still w8ing for an argument why this is needed other then greed =) and again no offense im still loving TL and i have a huge respect for its owners,casue they have made sth that big and still im heavily dissapointed by this move. I dotn care if +members get much for their money or not this is the wrong way in my opinion
* The team doesn't run off the site revenues.^ * Nazghul already said it worked for a long time because he slaved away for nothing. * If you don't care that members get much for their money, see it as a donation. The fact you're complaining over something you aren't paying for and something you already get for absolutely free (this awesome website) astounds me.
Additionally should the site be exactly break even with the staff all volunteers and the full-timers working for minimum wages and scraping the poverty line? Or should Nazghul - heaven forbid - make a small amount of money for the fact he runs the most successful website in the world and sponsors two teams?
Those who pay subscriptions do it in appreciation for the years they've spent here especially if they never got around to contributing in a more tangible way.
^ Even if it does in the future that means that tl would be able to purchase more players and pay the existing ones more - something I'd approve of. You shouldn't have to be Flash to make decent money.
Edit: I read your reply to Nazghul's post so I'll spoiler this. You were very nice in your reply.
Interesting. I have mixed feelings about this. I mean, I can see the benefit of it for TL but people around here don't really like change all that much. If I had means I would actually subscribe just to support TL, not to get any special features, but since I don't, I can't. I would love to contribute in some way though. Even if only as an artist/writer. Guess I will just have to up my game
If you subscribe to TL, chances are you are serious about using and contributing to the community. So automatically the TL users will be a select crowd who are like a creme de la creme of TL. There will exceptions, like folks who cant afford the subscriptions and trolls who wanna pay for trolling (who will get banned in any case.)
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
no offense, but we heard the "well this site costs money, it's hard to just break even" argument quite a couple of times. It came up on various occasions, last time i recall was the opening of TL store. I don't buy it. Judging by TL's unique clicks per day and the estimated revenue of the shop and other cooperations, such as papa johns pizza deal and sponsored threads, i assume TL was making quite some (not naming any numbers) in profit before the introduction of TL+. And i did take into account that people get paid as well.
If this is hilarious to you, open up your finances to the users. I would be more inclined to support TL by such a feature if i knew this site was having a hard time on breaking even.
He never said he had trouble breaking even. He has two pro teams, staff to pay, and a massive site that he must maintain. People have to live their lives. He's trying to do it in the most non-intrusive way possible and still people give TL shit about it. If you aren't going to support it, don't try to discourage others not to also just because you don't think TL should make more than you believe is "just".
People like you are poison to any community.
He is not "poison in the community"...he is simply putting forward an opinion that A LOT of people would agree with. Although I agree, I would put it differently...
Everyone is entitled to monetize a skill, a trade, information or expertise in any way they want....this is capitalism at its best. In saying that, the laws of economics will tell you that consumers (ie "we the community") will only pay for something if we see VALUE in it.
It is easy to be sceptical and cynical, but when you drill down and look at what TL+ is offering, most us would ask - - "does the purchase/subscription represent fair value?". From my perspective, no, it does not, and I will not pay for TL+. I love the content, streams, editorial, ads etc just the way they are. Why pay for enhancements that are not valuable to me? In saying all of this - just my opinion. Its all about perspective, not the size of your wallet.
On June 22 2013 16:34 tauon wrote: I like all the ideas in TL+ except the private forum. I worry that the private forum will fragment TL.
I don't think there is any possibility of it " fragmenting " TL, the TL+ forums don't have much substance unlike other sections of the site. You can't hang out only in the TL+ forums unless you want to miss everything else that people came to the site for in the first place.
I'm not as excited about starcraft as I used to be so I think i'll pass for the moment but I like the philosophy TL always takes to how it approaches products.
It's pretty much just nice perks for donating/supporting your favorite site. I mean, if I could, I'd just do it to support TL, but I got no moneys. Getting stuff for "donating" is nicer than getting "nothing" for donating, no?
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
The guy does make a good point though. I'm all for gifting the guy from Alberta who pretty much lost everything in the flood, but my lord look at all that charity. I hope some of you donate to good causes at the same time.
Maybe I'm alone here but I don't feel like I'm making a charitable donation, I feel like I'm giving back to TL for being a site that I use so frequently. Sure I could buy 3 months worth for myself, but I find it more fun to buy 1 month worth for myself and gift two months to quality posters/people I like.
I think somewhere down the line you missed my point and probably missed the part where dAP especially was gifting a lot of different posters TL+. In other words, a lot of TL users are gifting a lot of blokes to use the feature for many different reasons. Many of which being 'oh my gosh I cannot afford a few bucks because I'm a uni student.' Please, we've been there done that. We know the kinds of budhets they have. The point is for the few bucks it takes, it would be nice to see people give back to other good causes in the same breath. Now, I've been to a lot of third world countries. Heck, even forth and fifth world and let me tell you it is absolutely baffling. Nothing can prepare you for those horrors.
best effort, i hope its not bad for the non + members in future (when i have enough money for eating ^^) i will subscribe too (hope for lifetime acc)
edit: any chance TL + members can get namechanges for tl ? i mean there is my old nick used by some guy made 1 post years ago ... or other guys who has nicknames who are banned ???
On June 22 2013 17:10 Lylat wrote: Hmm I don't like it, I thought TL was like a big family and now you're fragmenting us ?... On another hand you need money so it's ok I guess.
theres literally nothing different going on there.
On June 22 2013 17:10 Lylat wrote: Hmm I don't like it, I thought TL was like a big family and now you're fragmenting us ?... On another hand you need money so it's ok I guess.
theres literally nothing different going on there.
Except for that thing we Plus Users all talked about in private and all made a pact never to say to any of the other people, ever. Except for that, right?
On June 22 2013 06:26 Piy wrote: Don't like the commercialisation at all, but whatever I guess. Whole feeling of the community is so changed from a few years ago, makes me realise why I participate less and less.
Just my opinion, not just on this issue, but also the general trend of modern e-sports. Regardless of how much money people are making now, I had a lot more fun with Starcraft 5 years ago. Now I don't play or watch it, and endless adverts and sponsor shout outs and reddit posts about the stagnation of esports' growth just make me not want to. Was just better when I could watch an hour or so of fresh BW VOD's, play at the A/B ranks and not have to spend forever finding games (back when Iccup was a viable server) and enjoy the community interaction on TL.'
Feels now like something great is gone forever. I would love nothing more than to go back to BW being the niche game it was with a decent, dedicated following and a fun community; the thought of never truly getting to experience my favourite game of all time again is very disheartening and depressing.
Can't wait for the next good competitive RTS tbh, will hopefully be fun again.
This... i think sth in my heart died today.. TL was the last site i expected to implement sth like this.. build by fans run by fans... i will miss the good old times.. i always tried my best to support TL with the little i have but now i think i will adblock it again... im not trying to be offensive btw i just cant understand why the old system worked for so long and now suddenly they need to make sth like this other then greed i hope someone can give me some good arguments so i can get my faith back into my so loved number one website.
I created TL in 2002 when thought we could fill a special spot in the BW scene. In the first eight years it was a completely voluntary job for me (first I was an SC progamer, then I supported myself through poker). I think you should know that I worked my ass off the eight years before you created your account, without ever expecting this would one day become a business.
Today TeamLiquid.net has become a monster to manage that can't be ran based on anyone's passion alone. As a website offering so much to its users it is impossible to maintain without monetization. We have about 200 staff members the vast majority of whom are voluntary. However as with any organization we absolutely must have paid quality staff to lead and accommodate such a massive group of people, and to create revenue to pay for all the costs involved with running a website as large as this.
In terms of monetization I believe we have always stuck close to the principles that drove me to do this for eight years as a hobby. We've never considered doing popups, we have never locked popular public content behind paywalls, and we have never put up donation buttons. I think that we do a decent job at creating revenue sources that do not create negatives for those who don't want to spend money. Think of the store, non-instrusive ads, pay-what-you-want models, and TL+, which takes no functionality away from anyone who isn't interested in buying it.
no offense, but we heard the "well this site costs money, it's hard to just break even" argument quite a couple of times. It came up on various occasions, last time i recall was the opening of TL store. I don't buy it. Judging by TL's unique clicks per day and the estimated revenue of the shop and other cooperations, such as papa johns pizza deal and sponsored threads, i assume TL was making quite some (not naming any numbers) in profit before the introduction of TL+. And i did take into account that people get paid as well.
If this is hilarious to you, open up your finances to the users. I would be more inclined to support TL by such a feature if i knew this site was having a hard time on breaking even.
He never said he had trouble breaking even. He has two pro teams, staff to pay, and a massive site that he must maintain. People have to live their lives. He's trying to do it in the most non-intrusive way possible and still people give TL shit about it. If you aren't going to support it, don't try to discourage others not to also just because you don't think TL should make more than you believe is "just".
People like you are poison to any community.
He is not "poison in the community"...he is simply putting forward an opinion that A LOT of people would agree with. Although I agree, I would put it differently...
Everyone is entitled to monetize a skill, a trade, information or expertise in any way they want....this is capitalism at its best. In saying that, the laws of economics will tell you that consumers (ie "we the community") will only pay for something if we see VALUE in it.
It is easy to be sceptical and cynical, but when you drill down and look at what TL+ is offering, most us would ask - - "does the purchase/subscription represent fair value?". From my perspective, no, it does not, and I will not pay for TL+. I love the content, streams, editorial, ads etc just the way they are. Why pay for enhancements that are not valuable to me? In saying all of this - just my opinion. Its all about perspective, not the size of your wallet.
While I'm sure you're right that there will be a lot of people who don't buy because they don't think the new features are worth it, I doubt most of the people who have subscribed are doing so for the features themselves. The private forum? No one is paying money for that. I'd suggest the overwhelming majority are doing this to give back to TL and out of gratitude for all of the great stuff that makes up the site already.
The more TL+ a single post gets awarded the brighter the banner should be, so that a single comment could perhaps blind users from its glory. I really need to grab myself some when I have the cash.
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
The guy does make a good point though. I'm all for gifting the guy from Alberta who pretty much lost everything in the flood, but my lord look at all that charity. I hope some of you donate to good causes at the same time.
Maybe I'm alone here but I don't feel like I'm making a charitable donation, I feel like I'm giving back to TL for being a site that I use so frequently. Sure I could buy 3 months worth for myself, but I find it more fun to buy 1 month worth for myself and gift two months to quality posters/people I like.
I think somewhere down the line you missed my point and probably missed the part where dAP especially was gifting a lot of different posters TL+. In other words, a lot of TL users are gifting a lot of blokes to use the feature for many different reasons. Many of which being 'oh my gosh I cannot afford a few bucks because I'm a uni student.' Please, we've been there done that. We know the kinds of budhets they have. The point is for the few bucks it takes, it would be nice to see people give back to other good causes in the same breath. Now, I've been to a lot of third world countries. Heck, even forth and fifth world and let me tell you it is absolutely baffling. Nothing can prepare you for those horrors.
I didn't miss any point, you're assuming that everyone who is giving it away is doing it because they want to be " charitable ". For me this has nothing to do with charity, I'm saying I have X amount of money I want to spend on Teamliquid. From that amount of money I want to spend this amount on other people (people I have interacted with and think deserve it, not random people who are asking for it) and this amount on myself, stacking 3 months on myself gives no additional immediate benefit compared to splitting it up. Why do you assume that users gifting TL+ don't donate to charities? I can tell you that I have many times. " Now, I've been to a lot of third world countries. Heck, even forth and fifth world and let me tell you it is absolutely baffling. Nothing can prepare you for those horrors. " Really, are you trying to guilt trip me? I'm aware of how badly many people in this world have it, even in the " first world " many many people have it bad. Yeah that sucks, but you know I can't save the world, I could donate every penny I have to charity but that wouldn't save the world. However, what I can do is give a little something back to this website for all the entertainment it has provided me, while also being generous to other people.
It may be true that there are some users here who are randomly giving it away to people, you could say they're being charitable. Even if that is the case It's not up to you or anyone else to tell them that they're spending money on the wrong thing. Gifting features to other TL members certainly isn't bringing anyone out of poverty, but It's not meant to. It's about the same as paying for a friends meal, giving away a ticket to an event, or giving them a gift. It's just something that people do.
i love it when sites try to make real moniez - but this just feels like a "donate" feature with small upsides to me... though i guess thats fine for TL, cuz lots of ppl are probably willing to just donate their money. dont really love this though.
Can't believe the negative comments on this. I have been a member since late in 2003 and this site has always managed to provide the best that it can. It has never failed to disappoint me and has always continued to strive for excellence. The people who run this site have done something amazing and continue to evolve and grow.
Why this sudden lack of faith? One decision and people are questioning TL makes me sad. Maybe some of you are newer users so you don't know the site and its history well enough yet but show a little trust eh?
On June 22 2013 16:52 doktorLucifer wrote: It's pretty much just nice perks for donating/supporting your favorite site. I mean, if I could, I'd just do it to support TL, but I got no moneys. Getting stuff for "donating" is nicer than getting "nothing" for donating, no?
I'm pretty sure you guys know your thing in an out, but to my eyes it looks pretty overpriced, or just the way it's labeled doesn't fit I don't know.
I don't understand why you didn't implement a really cheap paying registration with special features that the masses will buy and leave the donation as a classic donation thing.
I think mixing both worlds is basically the new way internet sites found to make big money the past recent years.
On June 22 2013 18:11 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is that yellow name tag on some of the names? I thought those are TL+ users but I see some with normal light blue tag also with the TL+ symbol...
Posts that were good enough to warrant someone gifting them gold... or cake... there must be cake in that secret forum.
On June 22 2013 18:11 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is that yellow name tag on some of the names? I thought those are TL+ users but I see some with normal light blue tag also with the TL+ symbol...
That's only when users are gifted tl+ for certain posts not for all tl + users who buy it themselves
On June 22 2013 18:11 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is that yellow name tag on some of the names? I thought those are TL+ users but I see some with normal light blue tag also with the TL+ symbol...
the yellow tags are posts that got gifted TL+ meaning that someone liked that specific post and decided to give the person some TL+ love <3
otherwise, all TL+ are normally the regular light blue with a yellow "+" icon added at the bottom right
edit: omg sniped a billion times (or twice... I can't really count)
On June 22 2013 18:11 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is that yellow name tag on some of the names? I thought those are TL+ users but I see some with normal light blue tag also with the TL+ symbol...
Posts that were good enough to warrant someone gifting them gold... or cake... there must be cake in that secret forum.
On June 22 2013 17:56 Slaughter wrote: Can't believe the negative comments on this. I have been a member since late in 2003 and this site has always managed to provide the best that it can. It has never failed to disappoint me and has always continued to strive for excellence. The people who run this site have done something amazing and continue to evolve and grow.
You've been here since 2003 and still haven't activated TEAMLIQUID PLUS?!
Why this sudden lack of faith? One decision and people are questioning TL makes me sad. Maybe some of you are newer users so you don't know the site and its history well enough yet but show a little trust eh?
People have a reverence for the site and want to make sure that new things make the site strictly better. You should be happy they have that kind of concern.
For instance, the filter button looks out of place, and Gift TL+ adds some clutter when it's on every single post.
Unfortunately i got no paypal and cant get it anyway because paypal is not supported in my shitty country. The price is kinda expensive for my standards but I will get it in the near future just to support TL.
Well at least i bought a TL dota pennant, so thats supporting TL through different means
On June 22 2013 16:52 doktorLucifer wrote: It's pretty much just nice perks for donating/supporting your favorite site. I mean, if I could, I'd just do it to support TL, but I got no moneys. Getting stuff for "donating" is nicer than getting "nothing" for donating, no?
I'd rather donate money so that everyone could use new, nice features, instead of just myself, cause lots of people can't afford it... They could also have made a "support TL - donation" kind of thing, where when the goal of money xy is reached, they unlock new features for anyone. Or one new thing and therefore every month or so.
I was wondering when this would happen. I've modded many other gaming forums and this secret forum + a cool icon for a nominal 'donation' or purchase always worked without creating much drama. Glad I can support TL in another way (already own some TL Store stuff!) ggnore
From a purely pragmatic standpoint, I've always had a sense that I 'should' be supporting TL by leaving adblock off, but then there are so many ads that are just downright aggravating. I'm glad to see this feature added so I can support the site in a way that I don't find obnoxious. I get that there are bonus perks and things for signing up, but honestly, not worrying about ads for a year on my favourite site is worth the thirty bucks to me :D
On June 22 2013 16:52 doktorLucifer wrote: It's pretty much just nice perks for donating/supporting your favorite site. I mean, if I could, I'd just do it to support TL, but I got no moneys. Getting stuff for "donating" is nicer than getting "nothing" for donating, no?
I'd rather donate money so that everyone could use new, nice features, instead of just myself, cause lots of people can't afford it... They could also have made a "support TL - donation" kind of thing, where when the goal of money xy is reached, they unlock new features for anyone. Or one new thing and therefore every month or so.
The money will go to making the site better. The subscription fee isn't maintaining the TL+ forum but helping the site as a whole.
On June 22 2013 16:52 doktorLucifer wrote: It's pretty much just nice perks for donating/supporting your favorite site. I mean, if I could, I'd just do it to support TL, but I got no moneys. Getting stuff for "donating" is nicer than getting "nothing" for donating, no?
I'd rather donate money so that everyone could use new, nice features, instead of just myself, cause lots of people can't afford it... They could also have made a "support TL - donation" kind of thing, where when the goal of money xy is reached, they unlock new features for anyone. Or one new thing and therefore every month or so.
Generally I would agree. In this case they say it is about "serverload and bandwith". Think about it like opening this one Raid (Naxx i think?) in old WoW. Where people had to donate supplies to. The problem was, despite some hardcore user (Hardcore Raid guilds), nobody would donate, because they would never reach that endgame content. So in the end 2-3 guilds had to pay for the whole server. Same here. And what if not enough people keep donating? Then the features would be disabled again after a while, which might be silly for most users. The way it is handled now, they could offer it at a low price (which they don`t), because only people that want to actually use this endgame content, have to pay for it. + Show Spoiler +
On June 22 2013 16:52 doktorLucifer wrote: It's pretty much just nice perks for donating/supporting your favorite site. I mean, if I could, I'd just do it to support TL, but I got no moneys. Getting stuff for "donating" is nicer than getting "nothing" for donating, no?
I'd rather donate money so that everyone could use new, nice features, instead of just myself, cause lots of people can't afford it... They could also have made a "support TL - donation" kind of thing, where when the goal of money xy is reached, they unlock new features for anyone. Or one new thing and therefore every month or so.
Who's to say these + payments aren't directly contributing to upgrades in server stability, as well as further development. Like they said, this isn't to take away anything core from main users, it's just an incentive to give something that doesn't take away from main users to those who want to contribute.
Awesome. I do not see any reason why someone would be upset about this. I hope that people enjoy the extra features a keep subscribing even after the initial wave.
Donating to TL? Great idea, kinda'. I mean, if you've been here a while, you know it's a great place to be.
Yet, there are some bits of constructive criticism to discuss here. First, I've never thought "no ads" is a feature. It's the way to monetize the site. If the ads were obtrusive, people would ad block them naturally. If they do not, well, they don't bother them anyway. To cut out that revenue stream in exchange for additional revenue seems counter-productive (even if it will naturally be profitable).
Secondly, the reason why TL is such a brilliant place to be is the vibrant community that produces a ton of content. The strategy section, even if oft bemoaned, is a brilliant resource. Should a TL+ strategy sub-forum emerge, it would cut down on the actual content on both forums. The old forum would not have as many threads and the new forum would not have input from as many members. That's something that should be avoided, but if it was taken into account, there was no measure put into place to dissuade such a possibility.
Can the report button be removed from a TL+ member? Currently, if you're a bad reporter, you get the button taken away (the gods of TL know I've been close to that myself). But can you take it away if someone is paying for it? If not, does that mean some malicious users can spam reports which reduce the chance that the mods can keep TL clean and respectable as it is today?
Oh so this is why TL was 'down for maintenance' so much this past week (or was it just me? lol). Come to think about it Team Liquid as been my homepage for 6 years and barely remember it ever being 'down', everyone working behind the scenes has done an amazing job all these years. No, I don't like the direction this site has taken since SC2 but thats life, there are still many parts of this site that have made me come here every day for the past how many years. With how big the site has gotten this was a logical step, I mean 900 people watching a stream used to be a massive number for a major grand finals... Don't know what people were expecting about the features, I wouldn't use any of them and anyway its not about the features... What were they supposed to do? Make one TL+ post count as two?
I don't buy anything from outside my country or on the internet (including steam) because I don't have a credit card and even with one its a hassle over here (PayPal just recently open shop but its very very limited), so the first thing I will do when I get my own place is buy a lifetime membership which will probably be out by then, and a TL mouse-mat, and a shirt, and a hoodie... and everything ^^
Holy shit this is awesome. I had to check the date when I saw the front page because I thought it was april 1st. Will be buy it once i get my student loan in august!
On June 22 2013 20:47 MarklarMarklarr wrote: I REALLY got to have this TL+, I have no money but I will sleep with anyone who gifts me it. I need a needle of tl+ in my veins right NOW
If you're a hot girl then deal. If not enjoy.
Although that needle in the arm metaphor was jarring.
On June 22 2013 20:47 MarklarMarklarr wrote: I REALLY got to have this TL+, I have no money but I will sleep with anyone who gifts me it. I need a needle of tl+ in my veins right NOW
If you're a hot girl then deal. If not enjoy.
Although that needle in the arm metaphor was jarring.
On June 22 2013 20:47 MarklarMarklarr wrote: I REALLY got to have this TL+, I have no money but I will sleep with anyone who gifts me it. I need a needle of tl+ in my veins right NOW
If you're a hot girl then deal. If not enjoy.
Although that needle in the arm metaphor was jarring.
On June 22 2013 20:47 MarklarMarklarr wrote: I REALLY got to have this TL+, I have no money but I will sleep with anyone who gifts me it. I need a needle of tl+ in my veins right NOW
If you're a hot girl then deal. If not enjoy.
Although that needle in the arm metaphor was jarring.
Thank you, this will be the best month of my life I can feel it. I am a very attractive man but a deal is a deal.
On June 22 2013 22:15 monkh wrote: I'd like to make the suggestion of having a TL+ thread of the month and free TL users get to view it (but not post on it)
The nexus mods sites (skyrimnexus.com/nexusmods.com) have a similar thing, they made their lifetime membership like $65. I actually paid for that one. Totally worth it. You do something like that here and I'll probably hit the buy button when I have some breathing room in my bank account.
I have to say to any mods, the fact filter is above the text on posts really makes them look awkward tbh. Prolly look alot better if it was moved to below the text say above the + imo.
On June 22 2013 21:39 Iyerbeth wrote: I've had TL whitelisted on adblock for years since it's such a great site/resource, but it's so nice to be able to have it ad free.
hah, first thing I thought of too. It's finally coming true D:
Not really a fan of the choice, but TL has done plenty of things I wasn't a fan of and I'm still here. Then again, if TL+ moves the more egregious ass kissing over to the private forum, I'm down with that.
A private forum just for TL+ Users? I don't post much but i do lurk ALOT and keeping knowledge to a select paying crowd doesnt bode well with me. Best part of TL was finding awesome opinions and subjects to read.
I seriously considered buying a subscription for myself or a notable poster. In the end, I decided against it; no hard feelings, but my money would ultimately be supporting coverage and features for SC2 and DotA 2 while TL continues to mostly dismiss LoL, and I'd rather not support that.
On June 22 2013 21:39 Iyerbeth wrote: I've had TL whitelisted on adblock for years since it's such a great site/resource, but it's so nice to be able to have it ad free.
where is the "My posts can contain more than 100.000 chars" option? Would have insta-bought it just to troll caller in one of his next games with that feature.
But having the filter button everywhere on TL and the shit-ton-of-posts-per-page-thingy does sound quite nice.
Now that thread OPs can receive TL+ from readers, this system would encourage good articles/guides. I used to write those just for "Thank you" or "Nice work" from readers, but future OPs can expect TL+ gift from readers when the quality of the thread is high enough. That's nice.
On June 22 2013 11:19 datcirclejerk wrote: I'm starting to wish people took their charitable feelings towards something that actually matters, like people dying and such. Donating to other relatively wealthy people just doesn't seem right.
people are being charitable and you are trying to make them feel bad for it? for shame.
The guy does make a good point though. I'm all for gifting the guy from Alberta who pretty much lost everything in the flood, but my lord look at all that charity. I hope some of you donate to good causes at the same time.
Maybe I'm alone here but I don't feel like I'm making a charitable donation, I feel like I'm giving back to TL for being a site that I use so frequently. Sure I could buy 3 months worth for myself, but I find it more fun to buy 1 month worth for myself and gift two months to quality posters/people I like.
I think somewhere down the line you missed my point and probably missed the part where dAP especially was gifting a lot of different posters TL+. In other words, a lot of TL users are gifting a lot of blokes to use the feature for many different reasons. Many of which being 'oh my gosh I cannot afford a few bucks because I'm a uni student.' Please, we've been there done that. We know the kinds of budhets they have. The point is for the few bucks it takes, it would be nice to see people give back to other good causes in the same breath. Now, I've been to a lot of third world countries. Heck, even forth and fifth world and let me tell you it is absolutely baffling. Nothing can prepare you for those horrors.
I didn't miss any point, you're assuming that everyone who is giving it away is doing it because they want to be " charitable ". For me this has nothing to do with charity, I'm saying I have X amount of money I want to spend on Teamliquid. From that amount of money I want to spend this amount on other people (people I have interacted with and think deserve it, not random people who are asking for it) and this amount on myself, stacking 3 months on myself gives no additional immediate benefit compared to splitting it up. Why do you assume that users gifting TL+ don't donate to charities? I can tell you that I have many times. " Now, I've been to a lot of third world countries. Heck, even forth and fifth world and let me tell you it is absolutely baffling. Nothing can prepare you for those horrors. " Really, are you trying to guilt trip me? I'm aware of how badly many people in this world have it, even in the " first world " many many people have it bad. Yeah that sucks, but you know I can't save the world, I could donate every penny I have to charity but that wouldn't save the world. However, what I can do is give a little something back to this website for all the entertainment it has provided me, while also being generous to other people.
It may be true that there are some users here who are randomly giving it away to people, you could say they're being charitable. Even if that is the case It's not up to you or anyone else to tell them that they're spending money on the wrong thing. Gifting features to other TL members certainly isn't bringing anyone out of poverty, but It's not meant to. It's about the same as paying for a friends meal, giving away a ticket to an event, or giving them a gift. It's just something that people do.
true dat. i gifted two longtime friends, one romanian guy who wanted to help out but couldnt and then just two random people because i wanted to give $50 total to tl. turns out i knew both of the guys already. i wanted the money to go to tl.net and didn't care who it came through.
if you want to guilty trip me, i spent $13 on lunch yesterday and that doesnt last nearly as long as three tl+ memberships.
I'm 90-60-90 (european scale) super hot blonde 19teen, with no cash. I would support TL sooooo much that I would buy 123 months, but I have to pay for studies. Can i get TL+ too? ...
Like the idea of the TL+ forum, and look forward to supporting what has become one of the primary websites I visit on a daily basis. Will get it as soon as I receive my scholarship money early next month
Hopefully more features will be added eventually as well.
Doesn't seem that interesting, and the video screeny of TL+ forum shows a bunch of threads that seem like semi- blog/general stuff more than anything else imo. Just stuff I'm not interested in paying for. Cool idea though...
On June 23 2013 07:08 omisa wrote: Hrmm, I just dont know about paying for forums...
Good idea for TL to make dem dollas tho
It's not about paying for forums, it's about supporting team liquid. Flying players all over the planet to complete in tournaments for multiple games ain't free yo! I wonder how long it'll be until lifetime is available? I'll probably just wait until then.
So my bank are saying there is no reason the payment won't work, and Paypal are saying there are no problems either (tried with both my account and the "use a card" option).
I was actually wondering for a while if this was going to happen, site is a huge community and people seem to like each other and are for the most part civil here.
On June 23 2013 11:53 LaGTTJack wrote: I was actually wondering for a while if this was going to happen, site is a huge community and people seem to like each other and are for the most part civil here.
Well played TL.
Yeah everyone likes giving and receiving compliments. Now there's another way to do it.
Well, I hate explaining jokes because that kills them, but idra was a terran in brood war (and has been offracing recently), and near the end of BW he was on CJ entus
sorry, but about USD 30 is too much for an ad free experience! i do not care about the other features. PS: you still do not have proper ad rules... so ad block lives on
I think it should be $20 per year max since it's pretty high basically for no ads and some forum features.
It's really good for TL but I just hope people don't start bragging about it and pretend to be elitists like how people act when they have Turbo on Twitch.
TL+ members still see adds when visiting teamliquid from a mobile device.
Not that I care about it(I switched to see adds despite being +member, cause well more support to TL) but I am sure someone will complain about it sooner or later.
I have a remark. I would like to do tl+ but i cant pay because i dont have paypal (or i am doing it wrong?). In our country (the netherlands) we got "Ideal" payment service voor all internet transactions. Maybe worth to look if the payment service "ïdeal" is worth it to incorporate in the payment options? (lowers the threshold for peeps to buy tl+ for themselves or others).
Or to look at the broader picture (not only my region), many young peeps dont have paypal or a creditcard. Maybe its worth it to look at more payment options then paypal and creditcard only per region.
On June 23 2013 17:28 govie wrote: I have a remark. I would like to do tl+ but i cant pay because i dont have paypal (or i am doing it wrong?). In our country (the netherlands) we got "Ideal" payment service voor all internet transactions. Maybe worth to look if the payment service "ïdeal" is worth it to incorporate in the payment options? (lowers the threshold for peeps to buy tl+ for themselves or others).
Or to look at the broader picture (not only my region), many young peeps dont have paypal or a creditcard. Maybe its worth it to look at more payment options then paypal and creditcard only per region.
Someone liked my post, gave me tl+ as a gift. He/She is awesome (wont post accountinfo ofcourse)
Ontopic : Paypal and creditcards are more US-way of paying options (i guess). EU for example has different preferred options. GLGL
On June 23 2013 16:59 Archvil3 wrote: TL+ members still see adds when visiting teamliquid from a mobile device.
Not that I care about it(I switched to see adds despite being +member, cause well more support to TL) but I am sure someone will complain about it sooner or later.
Lol I wonder how many lurkers (and I mean some of the hard core lurkers on TL who read everything but don't post at all) are going to purchase TL+ JUST so they can read the privileged forum but not actually post anything xD
On June 23 2013 17:28 govie wrote: I have a remark. I would like to do tl+ but i cant pay because i dont have paypal (or i am doing it wrong?). In our country (the netherlands) we got "Ideal" payment service voor all internet transactions. Maybe worth to look if the payment service "ïdeal" is worth it to incorporate in the payment options? (lowers the threshold for peeps to buy tl+ for themselves or others).
Or to look at the broader picture (not only my region), many young peeps dont have paypal or a creditcard. Maybe its worth it to look at more payment options then paypal and creditcard only per region.
Someone liked my post, gave me tl+ as a gift. He/She is awesome (wont post accountinfo ofcourse)
Ontopic : Paypal and creditcards are more US-way of paying options (i guess). EU for example has different preferred options. GLGL
You can open a prepaid account on Paypal, to which you can just transfer money from your current account. Works in Belgium, so should work in The Netherlands as well.
On June 23 2013 18:25 govie wrote: Someone liked my post, gave me tl+ as a gift. He/She is awesome (wont post accountinfo ofcourse)
at the bottom right of the post you were gifted TL+ for you can hover over the small plus sign (the orange one on transparent background, not the white on orange one). There you can see that nucleo was the one gifting it to you
Probably will buy eventually, for all those whining about TL becoming a "cash hungry" site. They are providing a service free of charge which you can use whenever you want, as much as you want and how you want (as long as you are not doing something ban worthy). How is it that you as a single user is entitled to anything? The internet these days....
Realy like this idea and think the creators of tl definatly deserve some income for all their efforts and to help make the site better. 4 a month seems kinda high though, i dont realy want to whine about this and for me personal its kinda irrelevant but the added features are a bit limited imo and not sure they warrant 4 a month, you can have membership of an online game like runescape for like 5 a month and thats a complete game with lots of extra features for members, if i then compare that to what you get here i think its slightly overpriced. Its difficult to find the optimal price, you would rather have 50% of the users subscribe for say 15 a year then 10% of the users for 30 a year but i guess tl has done some research after this and found 30 to be the "optimal" price. Will probably get it annyway though not 100% sure yet.
And wth, are only gift tl people posting here lol?
Bagi Germany. June 22 2013 04:30. Posts 6233
Gift TL+ PM Profile Report Quote #
Still no ignore feature?
Agree with this, an ignore feature would be kinda usefull.
On June 23 2013 22:38 R1CH wrote: Fixed an issue where posts that were gifted more than one month weren't properly reflecting it. Should see some more +++s around now .
That's pretty cool. I was wondering when I'd see more than one +. I just assumed no one had received gifts from two people. I also notice that more than 1 month gifts show up as multiple +s.
On June 23 2013 22:38 R1CH wrote: Fixed an issue where posts that were gifted more than one month weren't properly reflecting it. Should see some more +++s around now .
That's pretty cool. I was wondering when I'd see more than one +. I just assumed no one had received gifts from two people. I also notice that more than 1 month gifts show up as multiple +s.
On June 24 2013 01:15 oBlade wrote: If you get your normal report privileges revoked, is TL+ a way to buy them again?
I don't think so. But as far as report privileges go, I think you can ask to have them back after a reasonable amount of time if you can show that you can make better use of it, but TL+ doesn't let you go outside the rules. As far as I know - I may be wrong.
On June 24 2013 01:15 oBlade wrote: If you get your normal report privileges revoked, is TL+ a way to buy them again?
I don't think so. But as far as report privileges go, I think you can ask to have them back after a reasonable amount of time if you can show that you can make better use of it, but TL+ doesn't let you go outside the rules. As far as I know - I may be wrong.
You are correct, TL+ will not give you back report privileges if they were taken away.
Is there a way to hide the TL-plus icon? I'll probably buy a year next month just to support you guys after lurking here for half a decade, but I don't like to show off.
On June 23 2013 07:08 omisa wrote: Hrmm, I just dont know about paying for forums...
Good idea for TL to make dem dollas tho
It's not about paying for forums, it's about supporting team liquid. Flying players all over the planet to complete in tournaments for multiple games ain't free yo! I wonder how long it'll be until lifetime is available? I'll probably just wait until then.
well depends how it works out. honestly if this was done by ANYONE else then my beloved tl i would be up in arms about this. but then again i trust them enough so things will work out ok.
On June 24 2013 08:01 TheShimmy wrote: If it makes TL a better place for me to give them 30 bucks when I have some extra cash lying aroud, I'm all for it.
Just think of this as a donation for all the amazing shit TL does already AND bonus features. I love it. Very very well priced!!
Whoever anonymously gifted me TL+ for this post thank you a trillion. I plan on buying a year membership when I get some cash saved up. Love this community!
On June 24 2013 00:16 Rassy wrote: Realy like this idea and think the creators of tl definatly deserve some income for all their efforts and to help make the site better. 4 a month seems kinda high though, i dont realy want to whine about this and for me personal its kinda irrelevant but the added features are a bit limited imo and not sure they warrant 4 a month, you can have membership of an online game like runescape for like 5 a month and thats a complete game with lots of extra features for members, if i then compare that to what you get here i think its slightly overpriced. Its difficult to find the optimal price, you would rather have 50% of the users subscribe for say 15 a year then 10% of the users for 30 a year but i guess tl has done some research after this and found 30 to be the "optimal" price. Will probably get it annyway though not 100% sure yet.
And wth, are only gift tl people posting here lol?
Bagi Germany. June 22 2013 04:30. Posts 6233
Gift TL+ PM Profile Report Quote #
Still no ignore feature?
Agree with this, an ignore feature would be kinda usefull.
I don't think that ignoring an user would be good for the sake of a discussion. You gain more in an argument if someone disagree with you. Trolls/Bad posters will get banned eventually.
This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
Your post is wrong in every single way.
TL isn't giving subscribers less moderation. You can't even claim to miscomprehend this if you bothered to read the OP and thread. The TL+ forum is said to be less strictly moderated but only in terms of thread and post content.
The mods bans are fast but always fair and considered. That's a case of speedy moderation, there is nothing 'reflexive' about it. Good threads are rarely closed if there's arguing. Lengthy general threads that remain open with vitriolic attacks prove this. And bad posters are banned all the time, as shown in those same cases. The only ones that are closed are those that become absolute shit-storms, full of rampant abuse and with no constructive comments and that usually go completely off-topic. Some of these same threads which are deemed worthy of a civil discussion are re-made with strict commands from the mod staff not to verge off-topic, the same people that you blame for the allegedly arbitrary closures.
People can make sillier threads or posts in TL+ because that forum matters less not more than the rest of site. The site itself is heavily moderated in terms of thread quality/posts so we can all enjoy great articles, blogs and reports. No one wants a mess of bullshit in general, the strategy section or the main game sub-forums. Think of TL+ as a private IRC channel where people are shooting the breeze. If you actually saw the threads you'd see that they are no less lacking in quality than the rest of the site, so the issue of moderation isn't even relevant.
On June 24 2013 14:45 Garfailed wrote: i bought tl+ and got a confirmation from paypal, but havent gotten a pm yet?
Did you maybe pay with a non instant payment method like echeck?
I used paypal? It didnt have funds on it though? maybe its waiting for my bank to transfer money to my paypal account, before thet transfer it to Tl? idk
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
Your post is wrong in every single way.
TL isn't giving subscribers less moderation. You can't even claim to miscomprehend this if you bothered to read the OP and thread. The TL+ forum is said to be less strictly moderated but only in terms of thread and post content.
The mods bans are fast but always fair and considered. That's a case of speedy moderation, there is nothing 'reflexive' about it. Good threads are rarely closed if there's arguing. Lengthy general threads that remain open with vitriolic attacks prove this. And bad posters are banned all the time, as shown in those same cases. The only ones that are closed are those that become absolute shit-storms, full of rampant abuse and with no constructive comments and that usually go completely off-topic. Some of these same threads which are deemed worthy of a civil discussion are re-made with strict commands from the mod staff not to verge off-topic, the same people that you blame for the allegedly arbitrary closures.
People can make sillier threads or posts in TL+ because that forum matters less not more than the rest of site. The site itself is heavily moderated in terms of thread quality/posts so we can all enjoy great articles, blogs and reports. No one wants a mess of bullshit in general, the strategy section or the main game sub-forums. Think of TL+ as a private IRC channel where people are shooting the breeze. If you actually saw the threads you'd see that they are no less lacking in quality than the rest of the site, so the issue of moderation isn't even relevant.
I can kind of appreciate the caution Inimic seems to have toward the system, as it's hard to predict the effect of a change like this on a big ecosystem like TL. Moderation is always going to take into account a number of things, like how well known and reputable the person under review is.Forums always end up having tiers of "well-knowns" down to "lurkers", and it'll be interesting to see how much " and has paid money to the site" will add to that bias. On paper there'll be no change of course, but forum culture can have a mind of its own. Would be interesting to find out how reddit gold changed how reddit does things, if only to see how things were impacted in a less moderated community.
Either way I hope TL does well out of the attempts to monetize, it's a really great site.
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
Your post is wrong in every single way.
TL isn't giving subscribers less moderation. You can't even claim to miscomprehend this if you bothered to read the OP and thread. The TL+ forum is said to be less strictly moderated but only in terms of thread and post content.
The mods bans are fast but always fair and considered. That's a case of speedy moderation, there is nothing 'reflexive' about it. Good threads are rarely closed if there's arguing. Lengthy general threads that remain open with vitriolic attacks prove this. And bad posters are banned all the time, as shown in those same cases. The only ones that are closed are those that become absolute shit-storms, full of rampant abuse and with no constructive comments and that usually go completely off-topic. Some of these same threads which are deemed worthy of a civil discussion are re-made with strict commands from the mod staff not to verge off-topic, the same people that you blame for the allegedly arbitrary closures.
People can make sillier threads or posts in TL+ because that forum matters less not more than the rest of site. The site itself is heavily moderated in terms of thread quality/posts so we can all enjoy great articles, blogs and reports. No one wants a mess of bullshit in general, the strategy section or the main game sub-forums. Think of TL+ as a private IRC channel where people are shooting the breeze. If you actually saw the threads you'd see that they are no less lacking in quality than the rest of the site, so the issue of moderation isn't even relevant.
I can kind of appreciate the caution Inimic seems to have toward the system, as it's hard to predict the effect of a change like this on a big ecosystem like TL. Moderation is always going to take into account a number of things, like how well known and reputable the person under review is.Forums always end up having tiers of "well-knowns" down to "lurkers", and it'll be interesting to see how much " and has paid money to the site" will add to that bias. On paper there'll be no change of course, but forum culture can have a mind of its own. Would be interesting to find out how reddit gold changed how reddit does things, if only to see how things were impacted in a less moderated community.
Either way I hope TL does well out of the attempts to monetize, it's a really great site.
We're talking about people giving dollars and cents here, not thousands of dollars like political party donors. Even if that were the case, give Nazghul some credit for integrity.
You have this attitude like Nazghul is somehow relying on every single douchebag who buys TL+ and then posts like crap to keep it all together. He'll be fine. Someone acts badly they'll be banned. I can see no chance of TL+ being a way to avoid any type of moderation. For a start there's dozens of banlings. You reckon they're going to get a committee together before banning someone? Or even more preposterously Nazghul is going to start reducing or over-turning bans en masse? While we're in conspiracy land, maybe there'll be an icon that shows how much a user is worth and that's when a flag goes up before a ban can be enacted.
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
I think most long term TL members are here because they like the strict moderation. It sounds like the main selling point of the TL+ forum is there will be a smaller group of dedicated posters, so you get to know people more personally.
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
I think most long term TL members are here because they like the strict moderation. It sounds like the main selling point of the TL+ forum is there will be a smaller group of dedicated posters, so you get to know people more personally.
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
Your post is wrong in every single way.
TL isn't giving subscribers less moderation. You can't even claim to miscomprehend this if you bothered to read the OP and thread. The TL+ forum is said to be less strictly moderated but only in terms of thread and post content.
The mods bans are fast but always fair and considered. That's a case of speedy moderation, there is nothing 'reflexive' about it. Good threads are rarely closed if there's arguing. Lengthy general threads that remain open with vitriolic attacks prove this. And bad posters are banned all the time, as shown in those same cases. The only ones that are closed are those that become absolute shit-storms, full of rampant abuse and with no constructive comments and that usually go completely off-topic. Some of these same threads which are deemed worthy of a civil discussion are re-made with strict commands from the mod staff not to verge off-topic, the same people that you blame for the allegedly arbitrary closures.
People can make sillier threads or posts in TL+ because that forum matters less not more than the rest of site. The site itself is heavily moderated in terms of thread quality/posts so we can all enjoy great articles, blogs and reports. No one wants a mess of bullshit in general, the strategy section or the main game sub-forums. Think of TL+ as a private IRC channel where people are shooting the breeze. If you actually saw the threads you'd see that they are no less lacking in quality than the rest of the site, so the issue of moderation isn't even relevant.
I can kind of appreciate the caution Inimic seems to have toward the system, as it's hard to predict the effect of a change like this on a big ecosystem like TL. Moderation is always going to take into account a number of things, like how well known and reputable the person under review is.Forums always end up having tiers of "well-knowns" down to "lurkers", and it'll be interesting to see how much " and has paid money to the site" will add to that bias. On paper there'll be no change of course, but forum culture can have a mind of its own. Would be interesting to find out how reddit gold changed how reddit does things, if only to see how things were impacted in a less moderated community.
Either way I hope TL does well out of the attempts to monetize, it's a really great site.
1. Have u ever considered the revunues of tl+ could provide more specific content? More money, more options to do wild things. tl+ community and the normal community will benefit from that 2. I believe moderation wont change. Maybe the way the handle the bans of tl+ afterwards (communication) because the person that got banned does support tl. But dont forget that the peeps that buy tl+ will mostly not get permbanned because of racist remarks or something along those lines. They love tl to much. Banned sometimes yes, for posting to many pictures maybe (mostly 3 days or something, believe me i know ). But i dont see a problem with that.
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
I think most long term TL members are here because they like the strict moderation. It sounds like the main selling point of the TL+ forum is there will be a smaller group of dedicated posters, so you get to know people more personally.
That's exactly what it is.
It's been great fun so far, feels more chilled out and community like.
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
I think most long term TL members are here because they like the strict moderation. It sounds like the main selling point of the TL+ forum is there will be a smaller group of dedicated posters, so you get to know people more personally.
That's exactly what it is.
It's been great fun so far, feels more chilled out and community like.
The moderation here is pretty normal - just use your brain when posting and stick to the rules = nothing bad is ever going to happen to you. Aside from that: Gonna go TL+ just to support the site
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
I think most long term TL members are here because they like the strict moderation. It sounds like the main selling point of the TL+ forum is there will be a smaller group of dedicated posters, so you get to know people more personally.
That's exactly what it is.
It's been great fun so far, feels more chilled out and community like.
The moderation here is pretty normal - just use your brain when posting and stick to the rules = nothing bad is ever going to happen to you. Aside from that: Gonna go TL+ just to support the site
I'm just talking about the forum, TL+ forum seems way more chilled out, then again I only ever go on SC2 forums, Dota forums and Blogs.
On June 24 2013 13:36 Inimic wrote: This is called negative reinforcement: they create a punishing situation, then they give you an 'out,' and taking that out relieves some of the punishment. TL+ therefore reinforces your decision to use it by offering a forum with less strict moderation.
(The punishment is the site's famous mod hammers, closed threads, and fast, reflexive bans. Never for the right stuff- you see threads close because people reply rudely to them, and the rude people aren't banned- the thread will just get closed...)
Your post is wrong in every single way.
TL isn't giving subscribers less moderation. You can't even claim to miscomprehend this if you bothered to read the OP and thread. The TL+ forum is said to be less strictly moderated but only in terms of thread and post content.
The mods bans are fast but always fair and considered. That's a case of speedy moderation, there is nothing 'reflexive' about it. Good threads are rarely closed if there's arguing. Lengthy general threads that remain open with vitriolic attacks prove this. And bad posters are banned all the time, as shown in those same cases. The only ones that are closed are those that become absolute shit-storms, full of rampant abuse and with no constructive comments and that usually go completely off-topic. Some of these same threads which are deemed worthy of a civil discussion are re-made with strict commands from the mod staff not to verge off-topic, the same people that you blame for the allegedly arbitrary closures.
People can make sillier threads or posts in TL+ because that forum matters less not more than the rest of site. The site itself is heavily moderated in terms of thread quality/posts so we can all enjoy great articles, blogs and reports. No one wants a mess of bullshit in general, the strategy section or the main game sub-forums. Think of TL+ as a private IRC channel where people are shooting the breeze. If you actually saw the threads you'd see that they are no less lacking in quality than the rest of the site, so the issue of moderation isn't even relevant.
I can kind of appreciate the caution Inimic seems to have toward the system, as it's hard to predict the effect of a change like this on a big ecosystem like TL. Moderation is always going to take into account a number of things, like how well known and reputable the person under review is.Forums always end up having tiers of "well-knowns" down to "lurkers", and it'll be interesting to see how much " and has paid money to the site" will add to that bias. On paper there'll be no change of course, but forum culture can have a mind of its own. Would be interesting to find out how reddit gold changed how reddit does things, if only to see how things were impacted in a less moderated community.
Either way I hope TL does well out of the attempts to monetize, it's a really great site.
We're talking about people giving dollars and cents here, not thousands of dollars like political party donors. Even if that were the case, give Nazghul some credit for integrity.
You have this attitude like Nazghul is somehow relying on every single douchebag who buys TL+ and then posts like crap to keep it all together. He'll be fine. Someone acts badly they'll be banned. I can see no chance of TL+ being a way to avoid any type of moderation. For a start there's dozens of banlings. You reckon they're going to get a committee together before banning someone? Or even more preposterously Nazghul is going to start reducing or over-turning bans en masse? While we're in conspiracy land, maybe there'll be an icon that shows how much a user is worth and that's when a flag goes up before a ban can be enacted.
I never really said any of that, please don't misinterpret. I don't think anyone is going to avoid getting banned because they are willing to spend thousands of dollars (do trolls do that at all?)
I merely said that TL users have a relationship with the site, and the nature of relationships can change when money starts changing hands, and that's interesting to me. I certainly hope it leads to new content and such as has since been suggested
I am personally not interested in the services, but I'm really glad about how this is being done. Hope you guys get super amounts of money so you can keep up the good work.
On June 22 2013 06:23 Latham wrote: Honestly I'm a bit disappointed TL. I didn't expect this of you. When I first read this I had to check whether it's April Fools'. I though this website would be absolutely the LAST place on the web to divide and segregate people. I guess the guy selling the kickass 1st TL shirts (with the pony with the flag scarf and SC units as grass) was right when he said you guys went too commercialized.
exactly... that was the first thing i had in my mind when i read this. Dividing people is a horrible idea in my opinion. Very disapointing
Is it intended that there is an extra "enter" at the start of each post? Was this always the case? It looks a bit off to me. Every post has an empty line first and then the text.
On June 25 2013 19:39 Koshi wrote: Is it intended that there is an extra "enter" at the start of each post? Was this always the case? It looks a bit off to me. Every post has an empty line first and then the text.
On June 25 2013 19:39 Koshi wrote: Is it intended that there is an extra "enter" at the start of each post? Was this always the case? It looks a bit off to me. Every post has an empty line first and then the text.
Hmm...would have been awesome if it was free (since it would seem like these features are like basic necessity), but I understand teams need some loving too. SHUTUP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
you dont have to be a genius to figure that one out
lol chill
Actually, it seems more complicated than that. When do you get a "super santa" vs. a "santa"? When you give more than one? When you give it anonymously (if that's possible)? Are there tiers past "super santa?"
you dont have to be a genius to figure that one out
lol chill
Actually, it seems more complicated than that. When do you get a "super santa" vs. a "santa"? When you give more than one? When you give it anonymously (if that's possible)? Are there tiers past "super santa?"
just curious
I've heard it's 6 months for Santa and 12 for Super Santa. There's also Mega Santa but you'll have to figure out or ask TheMango how much he's gifted to get a number.
Edit: I'm gonna guess 24 months because I'm at 18.
Are blue posters automatically tl+ registered or not, i didnt see a tl+ icon with some these good people. Blue posters beeing the dude and dudettes that help peeps on TL in the helpmethreads for example? If not, i think there part of the backbone of this community and deserve some credit.
On June 26 2013 16:10 govie wrote: Are blue posters automatically tl+ registered or not, i didnt see a tl+ icon with some these good people. Blue posters beeing the dude and dudettes that help peeps on TL in the helpmethreads for example? If not, i think there part of the backbone of this community and deserve some credit.
Lol dude, it's been answered on this very page. XD
On June 26 2013 03:56 tofucake wrote: We have access to everything, but unless we buy it/get gifted we don't get the +
On June 26 2013 16:10 govie wrote: Are blue posters automatically tl+ registered or not, i didnt see a tl+ icon with some these good people. Blue posters beeing the dude and dudettes that help peeps on TL in the helpmethreads for example? If not, i think there part of the backbone of this community and deserve some credit.
Lol dude, it's been answered on this very page. XD
On June 26 2013 16:10 govie wrote: Are blue posters automatically tl+ registered or not, i didnt see a tl+ icon with some these good people. Blue posters beeing the dude and dudettes that help peeps on TL in the helpmethreads for example? If not, i think there part of the backbone of this community and deserve some credit.
Lol dude, it's been answered on this very page. XD
On June 22 2013 05:52 ACrow wrote: I got a question: if you want to gift someone with TL+ that already has it, it will stack with his time and prolong it by the correct amount, right?
Yes. For example if a post has a single plus sign showing, this means it was gifted one month. However, he can also receive a 6 month gift (6 plus signs showing) or 5 individual 1 month gifts (5 plus signs showing). Etc.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L2ESb2q.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Rqechvs.jpg)
I was just not sure what impact does this have and if that was the reason.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p8XFpJz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T5U3Aio.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9D4u8Dr.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Xp0csK4.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ADIXAqr.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3fuYeRl.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/28mXZUh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3cBGv6P.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O7I50ie.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HJWawLk.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NqXP0wv.png)
![[image loading]](https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1440405399/twitter_profile_album_sleve.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://www.areagames.de/images/user/16332/shut-up-and-take-my-money-1f46.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BFdbVTr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ui0I9Cu.png)
