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Music Theory Primer: Part I - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Community
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IBringUFire
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany103 Posts
April 03 2013 09:06 GMT
#21
As a musician and songwriter, really nice guide - and so accurate!

However, I cannot get rid of the feeling that it still is not simple enough for real beginners. Although, then again your post would have like 800 pages... ;-)
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
April 03 2013 11:05 GMT
#22
On April 03 2013 18:06 IBringUFire wrote:
As a musician and songwriter, really nice guide - and so accurate!

However, I cannot get rid of the feeling that it still is not simple enough for real beginners. Although, then again your post would have like 800 pages... ;-)

I made a blog for beginners here http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=397937
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
FlorisXIV
Profile Joined December 2008
Netherlands15 Posts
April 03 2013 11:11 GMT
#23
Nice write-up man :D

I think you are trying to go into too much detail though. As an introduction to music theory/notation you don't need to know about mensural notation and 7:5 rhythm immediately

You might want to explain about how groups of eighth and 16th etc notes are combined into larger symbols. Your example only includes a string of 16th notes. It would be more clear to include a combined example with eighth notes and dots i think. You could also add a figure/example of a dotted note and the same duration with a tied notation. Those type of figures are much easier to read then written text often (for me at least)

On accents within measures and how to achieve those; you can add the agogische(?) accents (i don't know the English term for this :S ) The ones where you make a beat slightly longer to accentuate it.

(p.s In the figure where you show how all the note durations are related you forgot to double the eighth notes )
If brute forse doesn't solve your problems you're not using enough!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 21:28:30
April 03 2013 11:19 GMT
#24
On April 03 2013 16:08 LaLuSh wrote:
"It should be noted that in modern music notation the use of key signatures in scores is rarely seen nowadays, largely due to the breakdown of tonality at the beginning of the last century, thought it is still commonly used in popular genres, movies, song, and video game music where tonality is still widely used or is the standard practice."

Can you elaborate on this? Because from personal experience they seem to be used everywhere (classical guitar). Does it only pertain to newer compositions/composers?

Yea this mostly pertains to what would be classified as 'contemporary classical' music (music from about 1908-ish and onward). This really does depend on the genre that its being written for, as well as the composer though. Eric Whitacre for example does use key signatures in his choral music, as does Morton Lauridsen (in choral music this is somewhat more common). But music from John Corigliano for example mostly will not have key signatures, unless he's writing for a certain audience.

As a general rule, contemporary composers will not use key signatures unless there's a good reason to, which is why it's more rare to see as composers do still use tonally-influenced harmonies, but the use of strict 'tonal harmony' amongst my ilk is more uncommon.

Of course as I did mention in more popular genres that key signatures are still widely used because tonality is still the dominant harmonic frame there (popular music, 'rock' bands, hollywood and video game scores, etc...).
On April 03 2013 20:11 FlorisXIV wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

Nice write-up man :D

I think you are trying to go into too much detail though. As an introduction to music theory/notation you don't need to know about mensural notation and 7:5 rhythm immediately

You might want to explain about how groups of eighth and 16th etc notes are combined into larger symbols. Your example only includes a string of 16th notes. It would be more clear to include a combined example with eighth notes and dots i think. You could also add a figure/example of a dotted note and the same duration with a tied notation. Those type of figures are much easier to read then written text often (for me at least)

On accents within measures and how to achieve those; you can add the agogische(?) accents (i don't know the English term for this :S ) The ones where you make a beat slightly longer to accentuate it.

(p.s In the figure where you show how all the note durations are related you forgot to double the eighth notes )
never ceases to amaze me that no matter how long I stare and proofread, I still miss things. Yea I 'll have to edit that image. Also I do talk about agogic accents briefly.

Edit: the image has been fixed.
+
Administrator
FlorisXIV
Profile Joined December 2008
Netherlands15 Posts
April 03 2013 11:29 GMT
#25
Oh boy, i totally missed that paragraph, my bad.
If brute forse doesn't solve your problems you're not using enough!
kirdie
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany221 Posts
April 03 2013 13:18 GMT
#26
This was extremely helpful as noone did successfully explain the meter signatures to me before (regardless of if it was their or my fault :-)). Listening examples would however be even more amazing!
las91
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States5080 Posts
April 03 2013 13:50 GMT
#27
On April 03 2013 16:08 LaLuSh wrote:
"It should be noted that in modern music notation the use of key signatures in scores is rarely seen nowadays, largely due to the breakdown of tonality at the beginning of the last century, thought it is still commonly used in popular genres, movies, song, and video game music where tonality is still widely used or is the standard practice."

Can you elaborate on this? Because from personal experience they seem to be used everywhere (classical guitar). Does it only pertain to newer compositions/composers?


Composers for the strictly classical concert music pieces tend to not use key signatures as often (I should know since I am one ). With the "breakdown" of tonality (I don't like the wording here since I'm a fairly tonal composer) it meant that pitches could be assigned freely without the need to keep to a strict key signature, therefore dumping key signatures altogether simply made sense from a logistical standpoint. If we kept using key signatures some pieces would look nonsensical since you would be adding accidentals anyway.
In Inca we trust
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4440 Posts
April 03 2013 14:51 GMT
#28
Dude this is boss, thanks!
Sucker for nostalgia
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
April 03 2013 15:57 GMT
#29
This is incredible, I'm going to learn so much from this :D, I love TL knowhow , I just wish I could write for it.
User was warned for too many mimes.
SoniC_eu
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark1008 Posts
April 03 2013 15:59 GMT
#30
This guy is a total badass! Thank you for posting
In order to succeed, your desire for success should be greater than your fear of failure. http://da.twitch.tv/sonic_eu
fusefuse
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Estonia4644 Posts
April 03 2013 16:59 GMT
#31
excellent
Everything familiar so far
Was great to get to know most of the terms in english though
Without having to dig out theory books off the internets :D
Liquipedia@jkursk
ClydeFrogSC2
Profile Joined December 2011
United States29 Posts
April 03 2013 18:05 GMT
#32
Didn't expect to see a Music Theory thread on TL today. Especially one so well done. Really sweet job, d00d!
sharkeyanti
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1273 Posts
April 03 2013 18:28 GMT
#33
On April 03 2013 16:08 LaLuSh wrote:
"It should be noted that in modern music notation the use of key signatures in scores is rarely seen nowadays, largely due to the breakdown of tonality at the beginning of the last century, thought it is still commonly used in popular genres, movies, song, and video game music where tonality is still widely used or is the standard practice."

Can you elaborate on this? Because from personal experience they seem to be used everywhere (classical guitar). Does it only pertain to newer compositions/composers?


The lack of key signatures is definitely something that came to be in the 20th century. The "tonal" music that is referenced has some really essential components: establishment of key, a cadence in a key, and a bunch of stuff in between.

In some ways, it's also easier to read and think about the music if there is no key signature, as each note is presented as is, without some insinuation as to its relation to the key. If you are a beginner for classical guitar, then most of your pieces are going to be tonal in nature, and will use key signatures for pedagogical functions. The idea is that you start understanding the usual positions for a given key. With the lack of key signatures, the composer tries to avoid any confusion as to his/her intentions.
Hi Mom
Wraith.978
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada37 Posts
April 03 2013 18:46 GMT
#34
Very cool, can't wait for more.
Platinum Random. "Don't worry, that's just halo" -Huk
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 19:58:13
April 03 2013 19:49 GMT
#35
My worry/critique is that it might be too detailed that it would scare beginners, whom I assume is your main target audience, away with an article as concise as this, depends on your intention though

I also suggest putting up some examples or youtube links when you talk about this that are harder to grasp or imagine like the Georgian 2+2+3+2+2 rhythms to us hear some music :D

I have one example of a 3+3+2+2+2 one :D

+ Show Spoiler +




+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlBBGKyNjc

they're not pros like the other one but just look at that atmostphere!


It's fucking hard because they syncopate the hell out of it but it's fucking goooooooooood so just listen and have fun :D
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
GaNgStaRR.ElV
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada535 Posts
April 03 2013 20:02 GMT
#36
Money post +1
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
April 03 2013 20:59 GMT
#37
This is good.
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
April 03 2013 21:27 GMT
#38
On April 04 2013 04:49 JieXian wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

My worry/critique is that it might be too detailed that it would scare beginners, whom I assume is your main target audience, away with an article as concise as this, depends on your intention though

I also suggest putting up some examples or youtube links when you talk about this that are harder to grasp or imagine like the Georgian 2+2+3+2+2 rhythms to us hear some music :D

I have one example of a 3+3+2+2+2 one :D

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrVjw76bh5E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrx9D_D5zrI

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlBBGKyNjc

they're not pros like the other one but just look at that atmostphere!


It's fucking hard because they syncopate the hell out of it but it's fucking goooooooooood so just listen and have fun :D
It certainly walks a line so to speak. Hopefully I've been concise enough and not too obtuse that subsequent readings can reveal more for those who are pretty new to this stuff. That being said, I sort of had to at least touch upon some things now if I ever want to try to approach some of the more advanced topics (like microtonality and tuning systems, or serialism), which is something that I feel is incredibly important to talk about, and not often touched on.
Administrator
sharkeyanti
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1273 Posts
April 03 2013 21:46 GMT
#39
@wo1wood

I don't think you've been obtuse, but I always found teaching this stuff or learning any sort of theory by myself is much easier with an instrument on hand and lots singing/clapping.
Hi Mom
Jonrock
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Germany80 Posts
April 04 2013 00:24 GMT
#40
This is a very nice writeup.
However, I think this stuff is all moot, if you just read it and do not learn it practically while learning to play an instrument. It is pointless to know what minor-subdominant-cadenza is if you don't know what it sounds like and cannot hear it in your head.
take apart your head
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