EPT
(the search for knowledge continues..)Music Theory Primer: Part I - Page 5
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
(the search for knowledge continues..) | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5215 Posts
Notes between C4 and C5 (white keys only) are ordered thusly: D4, E4, F4, G4, A4, B4, C5, D5, E5, etc... Europe uses a different system. I'd like to see that added. + Show Spoiler [A bad example for reference] + ![[image loading]](http://0.tqn.com/d/piano/1/0/r/F/-/-/SPN_octave-names.png) | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
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pebble444
Italy2501 Posts
What does Hz exactly mean when i tune my instrument? i am reading about this Norwegian guy thats saying that tuning instruments at 440 is wrong and that they should be tuned at 432 Heartz instead. The reason why i got into this is i am seeying a lot of music posted with stuff like 432 re-equilibrize yourself bla bla bla. I listen a little and i find it highly disturbing. So if someone could clear for me what exactly it means you know. If i understood correctly, music at 432 Hertz simply means tuning the instrument a bit lower? And the difference anyway is not understandable by the human ear? | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
As for tuning your instrument it depends on your instrument and what you are playing. If you are playing standard repertoire that is either classical, or just mainstream pop you should probably be tuning your instrument to 440Hz. All this means is that you are tuning your instrument where the pitch A4 is the frequency 440Hz. If you play a Baroque instrument (or older instrument/music) it depends on the ensemble you are playing with as well as the type of music because you can tune anywhere from 432Hz to 402Hz in some cases. As a note, A4 used to be ~415Hz during the Baroque period, so what we think of as A-flat today was actually A-natural 3-400 years ago... Sheds an important light on music from that period, especially vocal music. Unfortunately without context I don' know what the Norwegian you're referencing is getting at, but just know that tuning systems are a lot more variable and flexible than you might initially think. | ||
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pebble444
Italy2501 Posts
So these people that claim they are making music with 432 Hz (tuned in), its just music with instruments accorded like that I was gonna link the article before but it won' t help cause its in Italian:http://www.scienzaeconoscenza.it/articolo/musica-suono-frequenze-432-hertz.php The Name of the guy that suggested this 8 Hz change is Ananda Bosman. In the article it says he is not actually a musician. Fun fact: in Italian unlike French and English we don' t say i play an instrument, we say i sound an instrument. (unless its singing then its just singing) | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5215 Posts
On May 28 2013 00:07 wo1fwood wrote: Huh, it's odd that the picture you use has both the Helmholtz notation and simultaneously the more modern traditions. In Helmholtz system he'd use commas and capitalization to distinguish octave designations, as well as naming each octave (reference here). With the advent of MIDI technology helmholtz octave designations are kind of archaic and imprecise now, though they do give some good foundations in describing registers for organ music and their manuals. Helmholtz pitch notation is what I meant, I'm pretty sure that is still most commonly used in Europe. Sorry, I couldn't find a better picture at that time. I meant to post this one: ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Helmholtz_pitch_notation.svg) Thanks for your reply.  | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On May 30 2013 10:51 wo1fwood wrote: You most certainly can hear 8Hz difference. At that register the difference between 440Hz and 432Hz is about 1/3rd of a tone in Equal Temperament. Did you mean semitone? The difference of 8 Hertz for the concert pitch is about 1/7th of a tone (or roughly 1/3 of a semitone.) | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On May 31 2013 18:40 s.Q.uelched wrote: Helmholtz pitch notation is what I meant, I'm pretty sure that is still most commonly used in Europe. Sorry, I couldn't find a better picture at that time. I meant to post this one: Thanks for your reply. I still use these names (German: Subkontraoktave, Kontraoktave, Große Oktave, kleine Oktave, eingestrichene Oktave, zweigestrichene Oktave, ...) but as German I also use the notenames C, D, E, F, G, A, H and call B-flat just a B | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On May 30 2013 12:08 pebble444 wrote: Okay, i understand a bit better now. Ye i play an acoustic guitar, was perfectly happy with the 440Hz; I just could not understand what this guy is talking about. So these people that claim they are making music with 432 Hz (tuned in), its just music with instruments accorded like that I was gonna link the article before but it won' t help cause its in Italian:http://www.scienzaeconoscenza.it/articolo/musica-suono-frequenze-432-hertz.php The Name of the guy that suggested this 8 Hz change is Ananda Bosman. In the article it says he is not actually a musician. Fun fact: in Italian unlike French and English we don' t say i play an instrument, we say i sound an instrument. (unless its singing then its just singing) Fun fact about 440 Hertz: If you use just intonation for the C major scale, 440 Hertz for the concert pitch will result in integer frequency values for all white-key notes. In just intonation, A is 5/3 of C, so C turns out to be 264 Hertz. Derived from C, we get: C4 = 264 Hz D4 = 297 Hz E4 = 330 Hz F4 = 352 Hz G4 = 396 Hz A4 = 440 Hz B4 = 495 Hz C5 = 528 Hz In equal temperament, the pitches are still derived from A. That is why C4 is 261.6 Hz on a piano. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
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Horn
United States72 Posts
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cassydd
Australia4 Posts
Gotta say, I've never seen any of the 'modern beaming' that you showed at the end of the article in any of the pieces that I've played. | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On May 31 2013 23:13 Horn wrote: I am a professional composer, singer, and dancer. wo1fwood do u play music professionally? this article looks really good On June 01 2013 00:57 cassydd wrote: Beaming this way didn't really become a 'thing' until the later romantic period, so it's a pretty modern addition in the grand scheme of things. You can find early forays into this practice in the music of Strauss, Mahler, or others of this time period.Gotta say, I've never seen any of the 'modern beaming' that you showed at the end of the article in any of the pieces that I've played. On June 01 2013 02:11 sharkeyanti wrote: Yea, the main purpose for this type of beaming is for clarity, so there is can be no question as to what is intended by the composer (a major can of worms when talking about dead peoples music). The main question to be asked when looking at this type of beaming vs a more traditional one is whether you gain anything in terms of readability or intent from whichever you use. As he says in the relating paragraph, the modern beaming is used to show rhythmic intent. It's not necessarily that more recent composers all use that style, but that it is sometimes used to do a specific thing. I find it unneeded and distracting for the standard repertoire, but some works really benefit from and are easier to read with the the "newer" beam style. Often times being more precise can be more tedious and time consuming for the performer, but as a general rule I would always tell students to follow modern practices here. As an example in 4/4 it is common to see four 8th notes beamed together as beats 1+2 or 3+4, but technically this is incorrect because 4/4 is a quadruple meter and therefore doesn't reflect visually the beat unit divisions accurately. Similarly while my 6/8 example is more precise if the intent is subdividing in 3, commonly you'll just see 6 16ths tied together to show the beat unit. But how you beam here can also be dependent on whether the composer intends a certain subdivision (like 3), or if the division is indeed 6 16ths to a beat unit. So this can be a very specific and situational thing. In common practice music this really shouldn't be worried about, but for music past 1900 it becomes an increasingly important question. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 01 2013 04:19 wo1fwood wrote: I am a professional composer, singer, and dancer. I recently used Melodyne to test if I can sing a major scale. Most times I manage to get the structure right. But when I sing a song, it takes only a few measures to deviate up to a whole tone step. Also my vocal range is quite limited, A♭2 to B♭3 with somewhat clarity, F2 to C3 if I push it. Singing a D3 sounds horrible. So I cannot earn any money as singer | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
If you do some basic breathing exercises, you should be able to widen your range at least a little bit. Lots of singers have a limited range, though none of them would be in a classical/jazz field for sure. | ||
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momotaro
Japan19 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On June 03 2013 23:37 sharkeyanti wrote: @Faths, If you do some basic breathing exercises, you should be able to widen your range at least a little bit. Lots of singers have a limited range, though none of them would be in a classical/jazz field for sure. I am too bad for real music anyway. But since my keyboard is not here, I cannot play anything so I have to sing. (Actually I extended on a delphi program on mine so I can play scale degree triads with my computer, so I can accompany Youtube songs to find out their key and the chord progression.) Damn that there are very, very few guys interested in actual music theory. Today I developed a new understanding why the fifth is so dominant and why the fourth is so unstable. I also explored a new way to explain the harmony of the minor triad (with undertones, but this explanation is superficial because it is just an elaborate way to say a minor triad is a major one upside down.) I also looked into the notes one can get with the overtone/untertone series. To my surprise, the major sixths / minor third is completely missing. I also looked deeper into combination tones to find out that a major third indeed seeks resolution downwards (to the lower note.) I still try to understand if a sus4 chord can be viewed as a chord for its supposed root or if it actually represents its fourth degree. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On May 30 2013 09:15 pebble444 wrote: Hi guys i have a question: What does Hz exactly mean when i tune my instrument? i am reading about this Norwegian guy thats saying that tuning instruments at 440 is wrong and that they should be tuned at 432 Heartz instead. The reason why i got into this is i am seeying a lot of music posted with stuff like 432 re-equilibrize yourself bla bla bla. I listen a little and i find it highly disturbing. So if someone could clear for me what exactly it means you know. If i understood correctly, music at 432 Hertz simply means tuning the instrument a bit lower? And the difference anyway is not understandable by the human ear? Its interesting modern symphonies actually tune a bit above 440 Htz. Not by 8HZ, but it creates the illusion of a brighter and more magical sound. | ||
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