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How much lag is too much lag?

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gaijindash
Profile Joined January 2015
Japan376 Posts
September 17 2015 23:53 GMT
#1
I'm curious. So because of where I am, I ping 130-170 to SEA, and at times I can't tell whether I'm personally slow, or if the lag just makes the game much harder to play. Keeping in mind that I play against Singaporeans who get literally 5ms. Playing on Australia is 200 or higher sometimes it feels almost impossible.

How much lag is too much lag to handle for you guys? >150? >200? Do you think it's hero dependant?

What heroes do you guys on high ping play? ZA players I'm looking at you
Courage does not always roar, sometimes courage is the little voice at the end of the day that says 'I will try again tommorow'
Verniy
Profile Joined May 2015
Canada3360 Posts
September 18 2015 00:04 GMT
#2
when i lag it's usually just my internet being shit, so it gets as high as 500-1000ms
that shit's unplayable
Heaven's Halberd is the most criminally underbought item in Dota. Together we can stop this.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
September 18 2015 00:41 GMT
#3
above 130 makes some heroes/moves unplayable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
ykl
Profile Joined September 2012
Malaysia541 Posts
September 18 2015 01:20 GMT
#4
Above certain pings, you just gotta strike out heroes from stuff you can play. Like, anything that requires precise timing (Dazzle), heavy button mashing (Tinker), multi-unit micro (Meepo) is right out of what you can do. I'd say the hard limit is like 200 ping on the more fiddly heroes. Some people might be more picky than that depending on how spoilt you are by low pings.

I've played up to 400 ping before and it was still playable going with armlet and blink on Skeleton King. SA server gud server. On USE, I've played on 300-350 ping and tend to just pick supports. It usually doesn't backfire, I tend to feed no matter what ping I'm on anyway.
There is no need to be mad.
the bear jew
Profile Joined August 2014
United States3674 Posts
September 18 2015 03:30 GMT
#5
I sometimes play on EU East when I'm queued with a Russian friend and I live east coast US and I get 140 ping. That's noticeable, EU west which is 100 to 110 is the same I get for queuing on US West so that's perfectly playable for me.

Techies is pretty good for high ping, just set things up and suicide when necessary.
DeMoN pulled off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
September 18 2015 15:57 GMT
#6
It depends on the hero and the items. When you're disjoining projectiles with a blink, say a sniper's ultimate at a range of 1000 away, you have half a second, or 500ms worth of time to work with. A delay of 300 ms makes it difficult to dodge re-actively, but you need to do some tricks such as starting to blink before the ult finish channeling.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
September 18 2015 15:58 GMT
#7
Sometimes I get 170 constant ping (not spikes) and it makes playing ember frustrating.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
September 18 2015 15:58 GMT
#8
On high ping just play spirit breaker. Charge and shift-queue in the nether strike and the urn. Pop bkb on the way.
Then just simply pray to lord gaben.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
TechSc2
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Netherlands554 Posts
September 18 2015 16:13 GMT
#9
Anything over 110 for me i too much to play, regardless of hero. I am a bit spoiled with 5-10 ms on either EU server so never really played with too much ping
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
njt7
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden769 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-18 16:15:29
September 18 2015 16:14 GMT
#10
Playing with 200+ is to anoying for me. Anything under is doable with some games acclimation. The real problem arise when you have unstable ping that fluctuates with more then ~50ms.

Tldr I'd rather have 150ms stable ping. Then 5ms that spikes to 100.
"All the casters who flamed me ever for anything."
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
September 18 2015 16:18 GMT
#11
Dunno, I usually get 70 to USW these days, and 130 to USE. Its a very noticeable difference although east is playable. I get 230 to EU which SERIOUSLY impedes play on most heroes.

I do notice when playing on local server though.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
dfs
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Russian Federation4050 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-19 12:08:38
September 18 2015 22:03 GMT
#12
Personally:
Anything up to ~170 has no effect on gameplay but might need some getting used to anyway if you didn't play on it before.
150-250 is ok, but it's better to avoid playing puck (to be fair it's better to always avoid playing puck) and other micro intensive stuff.
250-400 CrystalWaifu is playable, if you channel your inner Garena player.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/Q1jSb9X.jpg (c) Shiro; http://i.imgur.com/lSDLLKb.png (c) drav
FranzF1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile1710 Posts
September 18 2015 22:11 GMT
#13
I always play with 180-230 ping and I think it's not that bad... When I play with 100 or less ms it's strange for me. I know im not a good player but still, sometimes you are owned by that delay. But, I dont play with proplayers so whatever.
Member #99999^99 of the fanclub of Grape, Reality and TurN
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-19 00:29:19
September 19 2015 00:28 GMT
#14
I struggle much above 100, but it doesn't help that my favourite heroes are things like puck/ember/rubick/weaver. Normal ping is about 70.

Bristleback and spirit breaker all day if Valve pushes me overseas.
Stancel
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Singapore15360 Posts
September 19 2015 06:01 GMT
#15
as one of the Singaporeans who play with literally 5ms (sometimes I even get 4ms on CSGO servers) and played on US East/EU West, there's a huge difference between playing on 200-300 ping for the first time and having played many times on that ping

timing dependent heroes like puck, lina, etc are harder to play, but you'll get used to the delay when you play more

when everything else fails and you still miss your skillshots, blame your ping
ffxiv enjoyer
lxginverse
Profile Joined May 2008
Monaco1506 Posts
September 19 2015 10:38 GMT
#16
any ping above 100 i cry T_T
fromis_9 enjoyer
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44251 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-19 12:34:45
September 19 2015 12:31 GMT
#17
Always played around 60-200 in sea ,, whenever i decide to play USE/USW it's around 300 and above.

Around 300 it's still actually playable dodging skillshots and making ones are harder and notably you feel it's delayed. The truly unplayable is around 400 above that shit is unbearable. If you are used to 100-150 pretty sure you could play heroes like even storm/puck/etc
this is a quote
mRpolite
Profile Joined March 2012
189 Posts
September 19 2015 12:36 GMT
#18
On September 19 2015 19:38 lxginverse wrote:
any ping above 100 i cry T_T

exactly
plus the 100 ms is only between you and the server, it does not take into consideration the lag between the mouse (well nowadays is 1 ms) and the pc and between the pc and the monitor.

when you do tracking in a music studio (recording musician's performance) you need as little lag as possible. if the musician is really good a 5 ms delay between him plucking a string and hearing it in his headphones is way too much and disorienting.

i guess what i wanted to say is that gaming (because of video rendering) has still some way to go before we see people playing in "real-time" and showing what they really got.

Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2682 Posts
September 19 2015 19:02 GMT
#19
I've got ~70 ping on USW and ~120 ping on USE, flipping between them is painful but USE is still totally playable after the adjustment period.

I'd probably list the breakpoint at 150+ ping before it felt too awful to play.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
September 19 2015 19:50 GMT
#20
Below 130 you can play anything. Slightly above that you might need to tweak your hero pool.

I'm SG and we don't play on 5ms. Valve servers are fucking shit. Average 60 on good days. Spiking to 300-500 ms during peak hours is pretty common for me, fuck valve really :D Servers were perfect in the past.

LightTemplar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Ireland481 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-20 11:43:19
September 20 2015 11:42 GMT
#21
Pretty much always play at 150-180 or so, i've come to notice that its pretty game affecting but i try not to get too bothered. I think the most noticeable problems are buying out as I'm about to die and earthshaker fissures being off. I don't play super timing orientated heroes all that much though. Definitely have to make use of shift clicking with some blink heroes though.
"Thoughts are always there, the mind can't stop" - Grubby
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
September 21 2015 09:07 GMT
#22
For me it depends on if it's spiking. If it's a steady 200-250 ping then I can play OK even on some miss like sf and invoker, but if it spikes a lot between 50 and 200 then that's unplayable because you can't trust the timing of how long it will take for something to happen after you click a button.

Like if I'm freefarming a lane I'm going to get 90%+ CS if I'm at steady 200 ping, but like 50-80% or less if I'm spiking a lot.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Nerfed
Profile Joined May 2010
Russian Federation1132 Posts
September 21 2015 11:50 GMT
#23
You can play Undying up to 1 sec ping imo lol. You place your tomb, press your ulty, decay in the middle of the enemy, soul rip some1 important when they at 1/2 HP and use your mek/pipe asap as people suffer some dmg. Fair hero.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
September 22 2015 16:32 GMT
#24
under 250ms is still okay, playable but not optimal
POGGERS
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
September 22 2015 21:28 GMT
#25
pros win with higher

not that playing with high ping is fun or productive for pubs but winning is still quite viable if you're good
Checkm8
Profile Joined March 2011
Japan627 Posts
September 23 2015 14:50 GMT
#26
I think ~160 ping is normal in most of the Philippine net cafes, though I've seen ~30 or below ping here too. I don't want to play in 200-250 ping, but I can make do with heroes like Sniper or WK. 250+ is simply rage-inducing.
Regenerating brain cells, please wait - - -
Hai1Fyre
Profile Joined May 2014
South Africa270 Posts
September 24 2015 17:41 GMT
#27
I play on the South Africa server and normally have about 45ms. I struggle over 100, so playing on EU is not an option.

side question, but relevant, has anyone else been having packet loss issues since reborn?
Birthdays are good for you. The more you have the longer you live!
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-24 23:49:55
September 24 2015 23:49 GMT
#28
>300 is completely unplayable, 200-300 I wouldn't recommend (though playing something like ogre support is fine), but 100-200 is actually ok (though you might have to relearn last hit timing if you're not used to it).
Bora Pain minha porra!
TheJamesBat
Profile Joined May 2016
Malaysia2 Posts
May 28 2016 10:16 GMT
#29
150 is still playable, 180 you will notice a lot of lag but still playable. Anything above that is too much. I have another question though. How to play in another region with low pings? I want to play in SEA region with a few friends but ping is quite high...
I am Bat. James Bat !!!!
phantomlancer23
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
733 Posts
May 28 2016 11:01 GMT
#30
Im playing with 50 on EU which is ok.On USE i m playing with 130-150 and i often cancel attacks and spells so this is the limit for me.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12077 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-28 11:17:19
May 28 2016 11:16 GMT
#31
On May 28 2016 19:16 TheJamesBat wrote:
150 is still playable, 180 you will notice a lot of lag but still playable. Anything above that is too much. I have another question though. How to play in another region with low pings? I want to play in SEA region with a few friends but ping is quite high...


You can see ping to all regions when hitting play once. If they are all bad you need something to change your routing to a better one. Step one is doing a tracert and talk to your ISP to see if they can fix the step breaking the ping. If that isn't possible and alternative ISPs are just as good (likely) then you can try a proxy and see if it helps. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't since the problem is before the proxy can kick in.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/game/how-reduce-ping-latency-3609346/ has some general problem solving advice.

As for the actual topic, WC3 had 250ms and it was playable. It just was more enjoyable when one started using third party tools to get 100ms at first and then as low as the host could get as solutions improved.
zolasell
Profile Joined April 2016
Greece288 Posts
May 28 2016 15:23 GMT
#32
One time i met a guy who kept pausing the game because of lag.he said there was no packet loss but he had 40 ping "wich was insane".He also instapicked mid,played really bad and thrashtalked the entire game.
incoherent
Profile Joined November 2011
United States54 Posts
May 30 2016 03:50 GMT
#33
I feel like a stable 150ms is much better than randomly spiking between 50ms and 150ms. You can get used to a relatively high but stable ping; if it's unstable then you can't compensate for it as well.
uberxD
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
412 Posts
May 30 2016 16:12 GMT
#34
250+ ping makes me not wanting to play a match
With that ping I play support heroes that don't require too much timing on the skills that have cast times
<-- occasionally in English - @uberdota
HighTimeDotA
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada1412 Posts
May 31 2016 16:31 GMT
#35
high ping is fine as long as its stable. i play with 200+ on euw all the time, some heroes like storm is really hard to do well but easy melee heroes it doesnt matter much. beat 7k eu trash with my 200ping np
rtz is like the Bieber of dota, true Canadian treasure.
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
May 31 2016 23:35 GMT
#36
Depends on what your playstyle is and what you're used to. If you're used to 100+ms, you might not have a problem with it at all.

For me, I'm too used to 30ms-70ms ping now. Anything close to 100ms and it starts to get REALLY annoying.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3265 Posts
June 02 2016 15:16 GMT
#37
Depends on how much ping is still fun for you.

For me 200ping spikes are really annoying and if I break 300 I usually stop playing.
Most of the time have 30-70 however, which is great.
low gravity, yes-yes!
DonDomingo
Profile Joined October 2015
504 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 16:55:32
June 02 2016 16:55 GMT
#38
usually have between 18 and 30 ping to EU-W but when I play with one of my friends on US-E I have 90-110 ping which is kinda playable but there are so many things you cant do with such delay and its definitely obnoxious
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
June 02 2016 17:25 GMT
#39
personally i've got 30 to west, and 100+ to east.
as i queue for both at reasonable times, i have a higher winrate on west and notice the latency difference playing on east.
i can't hold down keys to rapidfire keypresses, but i do mash quite often to get out of sticky situations, hoping to get lucky for blinks, bkbs, manta, armlet toggles, or wands. i am sure the ping doesn't affect myself for this more than it does for my opponents, because it's their execution that counts here.

in counterstrike i played at around maybe ~22fps average as an early professional when CPL and CAL was a thing.
earlier LCD monitors had slow reponse times too, but rarely if ever it was recognizable or a hindrance. i mean 16ms is 1/60th of a second, or frame-perfect for some games. the standard for counterstrike was 30+.

as for dota 2 and starcraft 2 i sit at around 30fps as well, same pings all around for starcraft.
for me, it's just a lot more pleasant to play on other systems with higher fps, and i'd rather deal with consistent latency in the 100's as a tradeoff, especially in a game like dota 2. leading shots in counterstrike was doable as well, with 150ping or more. quite a lot of math was done by a lot of players to figure out just how much you needed to compensate for that if we weren't playing at venue or something.
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