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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
Lalalaland34492 Posts
On October 27 2012 09:11 GentleDrill wrote:I seriously do not know how to use Naga's ult.  Half the time I get yelled at by the teams I'm playing with. Even if it's to save the one guy at 1/4 health surrounded by 3 dudes who should really just run away (no exaggeration, this has literally happened, he stayed, fought, died, and my whole team said to report me for it). It's either that or it just whiffs completeley because the cast animation is so long that by the time it goes off everyone's outside the range. And whenever I do think I've set a good one up, my team somehow pulls an iG and gets wiped the instant it turns off. So then I end up too scared to use it at all and that obviously doesn't work out either. The theory seems simple enough. If you have big teamfight ultis, just wait until a couple of their guys are close then pop it, walk in, claim your win, but that situation doesn't even seem to arise, ever.
It's very hard to use Naga's ult well in pubs because it's nearly impossible to coordinate it well with random people. You have no idea if they are ready to combo off it, they have no idea if you plan to use it now or if they should just blink in and start right away, the allied tidehunter has no idea whether you will turn it off early and probably doesn't know how to click on you to check how long left on it.
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I know I'm bad at this game, but the matchmaking system drives me mad at times. I rarely get even matches at all since there's usually at least 2 people that probably have never played before and they always end up in the same team, making incredibly one-sided matches. I've had some terrible lose streaks since I seem to end up with those new players more often then not. Oh, and those russians, who were the genious to put Scandinavia togheter with eastern europe, feels like there's almost never anyone that understand english. Communication breakdown!
Rage!
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On October 27 2012 07:26 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 01:56 chocopaw wrote:
Okay I'm about to quit DotA for a while.
Windrunner with Soul Ring in duo lane with me top.
Jakiro refuses to go bot because of her, doesn't state why.
Enemies have bat, mid dude picks Bloodseeker and doesn't buy magic stick.
And I mean, I have a lot of games in the very high skill bracket, and still I get to play with scum like that? How is this even possible? Yet again, there is no such thing as "very high bracket". Its dynamic MMR. The "very high" viewing option has surprisingly little to do with your MMR.
Explain?
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Just had TA who went 0-3 vs invoker mid (after taking EVERY rune) and then when i didn't used ravage to kill lone Jakiro he went on rage speak about how im worst tide in the world and disconnected from game. WUT.
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On October 27 2012 10:01 rob.au wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 07:26 Excludos wrote:On October 27 2012 01:56 chocopaw wrote:
Okay I'm about to quit DotA for a while.
Windrunner with Soul Ring in duo lane with me top.
Jakiro refuses to go bot because of her, doesn't state why.
Enemies have bat, mid dude picks Bloodseeker and doesn't buy magic stick.
And I mean, I have a lot of games in the very high skill bracket, and still I get to play with scum like that? How is this even possible? Yet again, there is no such thing as "very high bracket". Its dynamic MMR. The "very high" viewing option has surprisingly little to do with your MMR. Explain?
Not much to explain. Your MMR (like in sc2, its hidden) couples you up with, supposedly, other people around your mmr. I don't know exactly how this works, as its a teamgame, but safe to say there is somekind of "2 people with highest mmr starts on each team, and two worst starts on each team". MMR, if I'm not entirely mistaken, is based only on wins and losses, and not on performance. But the amount of mmr you gain or lose depends on what position you had on the team (meaning, if you had the highest mmr, the game relies on you to play well. If you lose, you'll lose more than the one on your team with lower mmr).
edit: Also, your MMR can fluctuate a ton, and bring a lot of badly balanced games, simply because while you may be good with one hero, you could be completely trash with another. So if you end up in a game where the matchmaking is relying on you to play well, because you won the last 3 matches with a certain hero, and you pick another hero you're bad with..well, you know what happens then.
This mmr is dynamic. Meaning there is no "brackets".
When you click on "watch game", on the other hand, there are a lot of factors that decides what bracket the game goes into. k/d ratio, game length, performance, etc, are all factors as well as the mmr of the people in it. If you play in a game that has all of these elements, as well as people with high mmr (even thought yours is not), then your game could qualify for "very high" in that regard.
tl;dr: MMR is the value assigned to you as a player, "very high" is a value assigned to the game you're playing/have played.
edit: I could very well be wrong about some of the details. If anyone else have anything to add, I'd love to hear it.
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On October 27 2012 10:17 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 10:01 rob.au wrote:On October 27 2012 07:26 Excludos wrote:On October 27 2012 01:56 chocopaw wrote:
Okay I'm about to quit DotA for a while.
Windrunner with Soul Ring in duo lane with me top.
Jakiro refuses to go bot because of her, doesn't state why.
Enemies have bat, mid dude picks Bloodseeker and doesn't buy magic stick.
And I mean, I have a lot of games in the very high skill bracket, and still I get to play with scum like that? How is this even possible? Yet again, there is no such thing as "very high bracket". Its dynamic MMR. The "very high" viewing option has surprisingly little to do with your MMR. Explain? Not much to explain. Your MMR (like in sc2, its hidden) couples you up with, supposedly, other people around your mmr. I don't know exactly how this works, as its a teamgame, but safe to say there is somekind of "2 people with highest mmr starts on each team, and two worst starts on each team". MMR, if I'm not entierly mistaken, is based only on wins and losses, and not on performance. But the amount of mmr you gain or lose depends on what position you had on the team (meaning, if you had the highest mmr, the game relies on you to play well. If you don't, youll lose more than the one on your team with lower mmr). This mmr is dynamic. Meaning there is no "brackets". When you click on "watch game", on the other hand, there are a lot of factors that decides what bracket the game goes into. k/d ratio, game length, performance, etc, are all factors as well as the mmr of the people in it. If you play in a game that has all of these elements, as well as people with high mmr (even thought yours is not), then your game could qualify for "very high" in that regard. tl;dr: MMR is the value assigned to you as a player, "very high" is a value assigned to the game you're playing/have played. edit: I could very well be wrong about some of the details. If anyone else have anything to add, I'd love to hear it.
You keep saying there are no "brackets", but you don't know what others mean by that term.
Is it safe to say that a person who's games appear exclusively in the "very high" category is better than a player who's games appear exclusively in the "normal" category? Yes.
Yes, getting matched up as a team means that the MMR range of the players gets pretty diverse. But unless you queue for 30 minutes, you'll get matched up with players of similar MMR.
Yes, there are no fixed brackets. The brackets work exactly like the leagues in SC2; they match you up with a range of players of similar skill, not just players in the same "bracket" or "league. In other words, you can be in gold league and get matched up with players in platinum league.
Simply put, the concept of "brackets" in your mind is vastly different from others. That's why you're saying things that are both true and untrue at the same time.
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On October 27 2012 10:01 rob.au wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 07:26 Excludos wrote:On October 27 2012 01:56 chocopaw wrote:
Okay I'm about to quit DotA for a while.
Windrunner with Soul Ring in duo lane with me top.
Jakiro refuses to go bot because of her, doesn't state why.
Enemies have bat, mid dude picks Bloodseeker and doesn't buy magic stick.
And I mean, I have a lot of games in the very high skill bracket, and still I get to play with scum like that? How is this even possible? Yet again, there is no such thing as "very high bracket". Its dynamic MMR. The "very high" viewing option has surprisingly little to do with your MMR. Explain?
The loose explanation is: The quality of the match is decided after the match end, not when the match begins. A lot of factors contribute to the quality of the match: mmr, kd, game time, average gpm xpm, .v.v.v.v..
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Fuck valve's mm system over and over again. I;m level 25 and i just finished a game where 3 guys in my team were LEVEL FUCKING ONE!
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On October 27 2012 10:27 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 10:01 rob.au wrote:On October 27 2012 07:26 Excludos wrote:On October 27 2012 01:56 chocopaw wrote:
Okay I'm about to quit DotA for a while.
Windrunner with Soul Ring in duo lane with me top.
Jakiro refuses to go bot because of her, doesn't state why.
Enemies have bat, mid dude picks Bloodseeker and doesn't buy magic stick.
And I mean, I have a lot of games in the very high skill bracket, and still I get to play with scum like that? How is this even possible? Yet again, there is no such thing as "very high bracket". Its dynamic MMR. The "very high" viewing option has surprisingly little to do with your MMR. Explain? The loose explanation is: The quality of the match is decided after the match end, not when the match begins. A lot of factors contribute to the quality of the match: mmr, kd, game time, average gpm xpm, .v.v.v.v..
source?
sounds interesting
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Holy fucking shit, i hate myself for playing visage, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME i use soul assumption i get a kill. its the most annoying shit when your getting kills from your carries by total accident. I cant not use soul assumption or visage damage is complete shit. time to go grind out bot games till i never again gets kills with that skill.
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I can confirm now Centaur is too OP. Winning like crazy with that guy.
Ult + Stomp + Double Edge = Serious Damage. Sometimes centuar kill squishy heroes with just those 3 spells and an auto attack or 2.
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On October 27 2012 11:29 Kabras wrote:
Fuck valve's mm system over and over again. I;m level 25 and i just finished a game where 3 guys in my team were LEVEL FUCKING ONE!
Perhaps they're smurfs, there are a lot of smurfs with the recent waves of keys. On guy from TL was back in very high after less than 5 games iirc with his new smurf (his main is very high too), so perhaps it was smurfs (just a theory)
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On October 27 2012 12:53 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 11:29 Kabras wrote:
Fuck valve's mm system over and over again. I;m level 25 and i just finished a game where 3 guys in my team were LEVEL FUCKING ONE! Perhaps they're smurfs, there are a lot of smurfs with the recent waves of keys. On guy from TL was back in very high after less than 5 games iirc with his new smurf (his main is very high too), so perhaps it was smurfs (just a theory)
that may be but i doubt it since they played like they really are level 1 and one guy even screamed "HOW DO YOU PLAY THIS GAME!!" after feeding first blood. also, even if people have smurfs, how the hell is valve supposed to know? more so when the smurf accounts are only lvl1?
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On October 27 2012 12:38 LazyFailKid wrote:
Holy fucking shit, i hate myself for playing visage, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME i use soul assumption i get a kill. its the most annoying shit when your getting kills from your carries by total accident. I cant not use soul assumption or visage damage is complete shit. time to go grind out bot games till i never again gets kills with that skill.
^ This. Except that I don't really mind because I'm not in high enough MMR to make a difference. So more kills by anyone is good. I think of the 5 games I've played with him I have led the team in kills every time.
Then again Huskar/Centaur feed him so so well.
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I swear there is something seriously wrong with the matchmaking in this game. I never believed it until now. Lately I've been queuing with my friend who is relatively new to the game. This puts us in normal MMR. However, whatever I do, I just can't carry our team to victory. The last 4 games I've been picking heroes like AM, QOP and furion. I always do quite well with these heroes, always highest level/gpm on the team, usually highest level/gpm/kd in the game. However it's still not enough to win.
Last game we lost to a fucking 4 carry lineup (riki clinkz naix PA rhasta) when we had AM (me) AA invoker veno lina. Invoker veno and lina spam chat in Spanish the whole game and refuse to speak English despite clearly being capable of doing so. Invoker and veno demand safe lane and lina demands mid, leaving me to take the danger lane.
At this point I'm already convinced the game is over but I take the hard lane anyway, since the enemy team doesn't have strong laners. I manage to get pretty good farm. Meanwhile Lina loses mid to a fucking Riki, invoker and veno don't do anything. No one ganks the naix in the jungle, or buys wards to deal with riki. We have 4 ridiculously strong midgame heroes getting raped by 4 carries. In the end I farm as best as I can, 250 creep kills at around 30 min but it was impossible for me to outcarry 4 fed enemy carries.
Dear Valve. I am not a fucking god at dota. I fucking suck, I occasionally have my fun pub moments but I'm just another regular player. PLEASE STOP PUTTING ME IN GAMES WHERE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO WIN. I don't even have a fucking winstreak
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On October 27 2012 10:26 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 10:17 Excludos wrote:On October 27 2012 10:01 rob.au wrote:On October 27 2012 07:26 Excludos wrote:On October 27 2012 01:56 chocopaw wrote:
Okay I'm about to quit DotA for a while.
Windrunner with Soul Ring in duo lane with me top.
Jakiro refuses to go bot because of her, doesn't state why.
Enemies have bat, mid dude picks Bloodseeker and doesn't buy magic stick.
And I mean, I have a lot of games in the very high skill bracket, and still I get to play with scum like that? How is this even possible? Yet again, there is no such thing as "very high bracket". Its dynamic MMR. The "very high" viewing option has surprisingly little to do with your MMR. Explain? Not much to explain. Your MMR (like in sc2, its hidden) couples you up with, supposedly, other people around your mmr. I don't know exactly how this works, as its a teamgame, but safe to say there is somekind of "2 people with highest mmr starts on each team, and two worst starts on each team". MMR, if I'm not entierly mistaken, is based only on wins and losses, and not on performance. But the amount of mmr you gain or lose depends on what position you had on the team (meaning, if you had the highest mmr, the game relies on you to play well. If you don't, youll lose more than the one on your team with lower mmr). This mmr is dynamic. Meaning there is no "brackets". When you click on "watch game", on the other hand, there are a lot of factors that decides what bracket the game goes into. k/d ratio, game length, performance, etc, are all factors as well as the mmr of the people in it. If you play in a game that has all of these elements, as well as people with high mmr (even thought yours is not), then your game could qualify for "very high" in that regard. tl;dr: MMR is the value assigned to you as a player, "very high" is a value assigned to the game you're playing/have played. edit: I could very well be wrong about some of the details. If anyone else have anything to add, I'd love to hear it. You keep saying there are no "brackets", but you don't know what others mean by that term. Is it safe to say that a person who's games appear exclusively in the "very high" category is better than a player who's games appear exclusively in the "normal" category? Yes. Yes, getting matched up as a team means that the MMR range of the players gets pretty diverse. But unless you queue for 30 minutes, you'll get matched up with players of similar MMR. Yes, there are no fixed brackets. The brackets work exactly like the leagues in SC2; they match you up with a range of players of similar skill, not just players in the same "bracket" or "league. In other words, you can be in gold league and get matched up with players in platinum league. Simply put, the concept of "brackets" in your mind is vastly different from others. That's why you're saying things that are both true and untrue at the same time.
Thats my whole frikking point: NO! Just because you've appeared in a game labeled as very high, does not mean your MMR is very high nor that you are a good player!
And no, it does not work like the brakcets in sc2. Just get this through your head: There is very little correlation between your mmr and what your game might be labeled as. If you go around and tell people "Dude, I'm like in the very high bracket", which many are, you are telling them exactly nothing.
I actually appeared in a "very high" match after only having played around 40 games. And with the people I keep getting into my matches, I can promise you its not because of my "extremely high progaming mmr".
It would be best if you simply ignored the whole viewing options altogether.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aZ1CE.jpg)
Why I don't play support.
1) Carries can't farm to save their lives.
2) In spite of that they farm all game.
3) FUCK YEAH RUSSIAN SPAM, GUESS WHO'S NOT SURPRISED.
We were up by like 10+ kills for the first half hour or so, then people started to go rambo and Naix was 0/3/2. I tried to make them push, didn't work. When we finally cracked their base Naix went glory hunting and got himself dragged into the fountain by Bat, like, how FUCKING RETARDED do you have to be.
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All this talk about how very high / high etc mmr works.. can we see some sources? I know it's not the first time I'm asking, but I'm interested 
As far as I see in my own experience, the high/very high/medium is just a broad way of categorizing the pages on which matches appear, which are a way of ordering the games based on the mmr of the players within. Not once have I been in a low numbered game that later turned out to be high or medium skilled. And the players there are definitely better than players at the 50+ page mark.
I don't think how the actual game goes has any relation to whether it gets classified as high or not.. since the pages are determined before the game starts which appear to me to also determine the skill of the game.
I could be wrong of course, I don't have any sources..these are just my observations. That's why I'd like some sources for your claims!
Of course if you don't have any, it'd be important to preface your posts with that so I know whether I'm wasting my time!
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On October 28 2012 02:37 JeeJee wrote:All this talk about how very high / high etc mmr works.. can we see some sources? I know it's not the first time I'm asking, but I'm interested As far as I see in my own experience, the high/very high/medium is just a broad way of categorizing the pages on which matches appear, which are a way of ordering the games based on the mmr of the players within. Not once have I been in a low numbered game that later turned out to be high or medium skilled. And the players there are definitely better than players at the 50+ page mark. I don't think how the actual game goes has any relation to whether it gets classified as high or not.. since the pages are determined before the game starts which appear to me to also determine the skill of the game. I could be wrong of course, I don't have any sources..these are just my observations. That's why I'd like some sources for your claims! Of course if you don't have any, it'd be important to preface your posts with that so I know whether I'm wasting my time!
You'll have to ask Valve for those.
The only things that have been confirmed, through various interviews and "blue posts" is that the mmr is dynamic (meaning, no brackets). And that the viewing brackets should largely be ignored by yourself as a player, as its only meant as a suggestion on what you should watch. What the exact factors deciding what bracket a game goes into, no one knows. We only get small bits of pieces of hints here and there, like the teams being balanced around the players with highest mmr instead of average, I remember reading about only a few days ago. The rest is based on logic and other systems (like sc2's).
If someone have any more info, I'd love to hear them too. But people should stop thinking themselves a "very high" player, just because they've had matches in the very high bracket, because they're not. This is the only thing we know for sure 100%.
Hopefully we'll be able to figure out more when team matchmaking starts up, as we'll have some actual numbers to look at.
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EPT
