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On February 21 2018 15:08 bdonballer wrote: I really wish more of the support builds had arcane boots over tranquil boots. Every game my 2 supports follow your standard build for tranquils. Heroes like Rubick and shadow demon, for example, are way better off with more mana than movespeed. It also helps your core players so much more if the supports had mana boots so you aren’t endlessly crowing clarities.
Just my two cents
I'm put in a bad place where I must follow 'the standard' but if I account for lower-levels, I get criticized heavily for 'outdated' or shitty builds.
PS: rubick has Arcane already: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128927319
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United States15275 Posts
Aghs definitely deserves a spot in the Extensions section of the Viper build. After testing I'd say it's the best followup to Pike/Maelstrom, only surpassing Butterfly in convenience.
- Easy buildup. PB alone helps with staying alive and farming with W.
- Aligns with his max attack range (815 vs 900) so you can stay indefinitely in the backline.
- The reduced Strike cost + mana gives you enough mana, with Pike, to continue pressuring after an extended teamfight.
- Very easy to push out the side lanes while jungling, all without exposing yourself to ganks.
- Lets you use R immediately to guarantee kills on supports instead of waiting for a priority target.
- Great for sieging high ground if you have a teammate providing vision.
- A BKB-piercing slow, undispellable and on a 10 second CD, is just a great CC option.
- Gives him a ton of leverage in matchups where he normally gets outscaled e.g. Dragon Knight.
- Makes him a threatening lategame hero if you get the 120 damage talent.
In short, it enhances most aspects of the ghetto Sniper build and makes it hard to defensively itemize while being brain-dead easy to use.
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On February 22 2018 13:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:Aghs definitely deserves a spot in the Extensions section of the Viper build. After testing I'd say it's the best followup to Pike/Maelstrom, only surpassing Butterfly in convenience. - Easy buildup. PB alone helps with staying alive and farming with W.
- Aligns with his max attack range (815 vs 900) so you can stay indefinitely in the backline.
- The reduced Strike cost + mana gives you enough mana, with Pike, to continue pressuring after an extended teamfight.
- Very easy to push out the side lanes while jungling, all without exposing yourself to ganks.
- Lets you use R immediately to guarantee kills on supports instead of waiting for a priority target.
- Great for sieging high ground if you have a teammate providing vision.
- A BKB-piercing slow, undispellable and on a 10 second CD, is just a great CC option.
- Gives him a ton of leverage in matchups where he normally gets outscaled e.g. Dragon Knight.
- Makes him a threatening lategame hero if you get the 120 damage talent.
In short, it enhances most aspects of the ghetto Sniper build and makes it hard to defensively itemize while being brain-dead easy to use.
Need to remove one item for this to fit
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United States15275 Posts
On February 22 2018 16:21 Torte de Lini wrote: Need to remove one item for this to fit
SnY is late for the third slot. By that point you should be aiming for lategame items.
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radiance on lifestealer seems to be the new hotness
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stats tomorrow but I gotta do some last-minute updates before I do stats for 4-5 heroes.
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Applied Changes: March 4 (4:30 CET)
Actual Schedule (CET)Day 1 - hours- 7:30-8:30AM: Setting up Planning Posts + Data Sheet - 8:30-9:00AM: Personal Notes - 9:00-11:00AM: Preliminary Notes (Talent Changes) - 2:30-4:30: Finalization and Announcement Total Elapsed Time: 5.5 Hours Total changes made: 79 approx. changes 37 Guides applied 121 Guides remain unchanged
This latest update was made possible thanks to the feedback from the following community members. Sincerest thank you to: B. Jacobson, B. Sanborn, PrezombiePatreon.com/Torte, heartfelt appreciation and mention goes to these generous monthly Patron campaign supporters. Sincerest thank you to: Alfred Vogl // Xeoneatos, Cam Connor // CB.CB, Patrick Tobin, julian beck, Trent Monahan, Jade Wardle, szymond70, Loke Nielsen, Teruyo, Stepan Dyachovskiy, Simon B, Dylan Lauritsen, Thane Brimhall, Mathew Buhler, Sean McMurray, James, Sutas, Bartlomiej Jan Pasek // Chris Missal, John Rinehart, Michael Carmody, Alexander Scheurer, Joshua Goodwin, James Sarjeant, Jordan Parker, Kenneth Sologaistoa, Hamad AlZayani, DaChrisse, Jeroen Koenders, Alan Meng, Dice, Vodka, Andrew Krigline, Andrew Heckathorn, Captain Marvelous, Katilyn McDougle, Benjamin Richter, dsrtfx_xx, Michael Kaeser, Lowe Schmidt, Tony Heugh, James Merrill, Guitaringegg, JimmaDaRustla, Daxdiv, Ryan Goss, Nate Hubbard, The WLD Crew, Matthew Nami // AD2L, tale, Omer Ganai, Paul Martindale, Gilbert Hangel, Wilson Malcom, Elizaveta Yanovskaya, Daryl, Jesse Jorgensen-Price, John Killilea, Anna-karin, Mads Grau Kristensen, Oscar Swahn, Christopher Garcia, Kevin Janssens, Swaroop Jegde, Anagh Kumar Baranwal, Jesse Ruth, Luke Mirman, Jose Cacho, Eric Barett, JJ Sigler, Mr Magnificent, Ian Lunderskov, Unfun, Douglas Hitchcock, Nick Mayo, Stefan Chladek, Christopher Dickson, S J, Tyler Reid, Aaron Bell, Cooper Johnson, Samuel Enocsson, slashershot, Igor Dolgiy, Josh Laseter // Gerald Callow, zyberspace, Kjetil Kultom, Steve, Joshua Rodman, Moe Foster
Abaddon New Talent Tree: 10 (20% XP Gain), 15 (+6 Armor), 20 (20% Cooldown), 25 (+225 Aphotic Shield)
Alchemist (Radiance) New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Attack Speed), 15 (+400 Health), 20 (+400 Unstable Concoction Damage), 25 (-0.2 Chemical Rage Base Attack Time)
Arc Warden x2 New Talent Tree: 10 (8% Cooldown Reduction), 15 (+350 Health), 20 (+125 Attack Range), 25 (30% Lifesteal)
Clockwerk Added Wind Lace to Starting Items Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items Added Healing Salve to Starting Items Removed Boots of Speed
Dragon Knight x2 New Talent Tree: 10 (-20% Breathe Fire Damage Reduction), 15 (+35 Damage), 20 (2x Dragon Blood HP Regen/Armor), 25 (+40 Strength)
Drow Ranger New Talent Tree: 10 (+20 Movement Speed), 15 (+550 Gust Distance/Knockback), 20 (+20 Marksmanship), 25 (+20% Precision Aura)
Earth Spirit New Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q E E T E R W W T W R T T (1. Boulder Smash 2. Geomagnetic Grip 3. Rolling Boulder) New Talent Tree: 10 (+40 Damage), 15 (+200 Rolling Boulder Damage), 20 (+150 Gold/Min), 25 (Geomagnetic Grip Targets Allies)
Enchantress Added Blight Stone to Starting Items Added Tango to Starting Items Added Magic Wand to Core Items Removed Boots of Speed Removed Clarity x2
Enigma Added Tango to Starting Items Added Boots of Speed to Starting Items Removed Clarity
Gyrocopter (Roamer) New Talent Tree: 10 (+200 Health), 15 (+11 Rocket Barrage), 20 (+50 Movement Speed), 25 (3 Homing Missiles) Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items Added Soul Ring to Early Game Added Phase Boots to Core Items Added Drum of Endurance to Core Items Added Bloodthorn to Extension Items Removed Boots of Speed Removed Arcane Boots Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity Removed Scythe of Vyse
Invoker (Quas/Wex) Removed Iron Branch
Jakiro New Talent Tree: 10 (+30% XP Gain), 15 (+40 Dual Breath Burn Damage), 20 (+150 Gold/Min), 25 (Macropyre Pure and Pierces Immunity) Removed Observer Ward
Keeper of the Light Removed Observer Ward
Kunkka (Support) Added Observer Ward to Starting Items Added Clarity to Starting Items Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items Removed Boots of Speed
Lion Removed Observer Ward
Leshrac (Support) Removed Observer Ward
Lina (Core) New Talent Tree: 10 (+125 Cast Range), 15 (+140 Light Strike Array Damage), 20 (+25/2% Fiery Soul Per Stack), 25 (+175 Attack Range)
Lina (Support) New Talent Tree: 10 (+125 Cast Range), 15 (+140 Light Strike Array Damage), 20 (+12% Spell Amplification), 25 (+175 Attack Range)
Morphling Added Healing Salve to Starting Items Added Ring of Health to Early Game Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items Added Butterfly to Extension Items Added Nullifier to Extension Items Moved Hurricane Pike to Situational Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar
Naga Siren (Support) New Skill Build: E W W Q W R W E E T E R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Ensnare 2. Rip Tide 3. Mirror Image)
Nature's Prophet Added Orb of Venom to Starting Items Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items Removed Boots of Speed
Necrophos New Talent Tree: 10 (+40 Damage), 15 (+40 Death Pulse Heal), 20 (+20% Magic Resistance), 25 (+0.6 Heartstopper Aura)
Nyx Assassin (Support) Removed Observer Ward
Ogre Magi Added Observer Ward to Starting Items Removed Boots of Speed
Omniknight Added Soul Ring to Situational Items Removed Infused Raindrop
Pangolier New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W T W R E E T E R T T (1. Swashbuckle 2. Shield Crash 3. Heartpiercer)
Shadow Demon New Talent Tree: 10 (+30% XP Gain), 15 (+25% Shadow Poison Damage), 20 (-6s Soul Catcher Cooldown), 25 (+500 Demonic Purge Damage)
Storm Spirit Added Power Treads to Core Items Removed Arcane Boots
Sven New Talent Tree: 10 (+8 Strength), 15 (+30 Movement Speed), 20 (25% Lifesteal), 25 (+40 STR God's Strength)
Tidehunter Moved Soul Ring to Situational Items
Terrorblade New Skill Build: E Q E W W W W R E T E R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Conjure Image 2. Metamorphosis 3. Reflection) New Talent Tree: 10 (+20 Movement Speed), 15 (+300 Health), 20 (-10s Reflection Cooldown), 25 (-35s Sunder Cooldown) Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Tinker New Talent Tree: 10 (+75 Cast Range), 15 (+40 Movement Speed), 20 (+8 March of the Machines Damage), 25 (+100 Laser Damage)
Treant Protector New Talent Tree: 10 (+2 Living Armor Block Instances), 15 (+90 Damage), 20 (+2s Nature's Guise Root), 25 (700 AoE Living Armor)
Venomancer New Talent Tree: 10 (90 Gold/Min), 15 (+200 Cast Range), 20 (+7s Poison Nova Duration), 25 (3x Plague Ward HP/Damage)
Viper Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Removed Sange & Yasha
Winter Wyvern Created New Tab: "Early Game" Added Magic Wand to "Early Game" Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
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After 15 days (February 15 to March 2), we have risen from 300,537,659 to 303,645,265 combined subscriptions
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This latest update and hero builds changes was made possible thanks to the involvement of the following community members. Sincere thank you to: B. Jacobson, Prezombie, CosmicSpiral, bdonballer, Buckyman, TheEmulator
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Maybe a more experienced AW player than me can chime in, but 8% CDR talent at 10 feels better than the 25 atk speed
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On March 04 2018 16:37 tehh4ck3r wrote: Maybe a more experienced AW player than me can chime in, but 8% CDR talent at 10 feels better than the 25 atk speed
You are correct.
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New memestealer build is like, sny radiance solar crest with the 20% evasion talent. Not sure if it's going to last and not everyone builds it, hero sucks if you don't go for that build though IMO.
Phantom Lancer People are maxing phantom rush not lance, it's normally one point in Q and one in W and max E. So QEWEERE or similar. Situationally people are getting two or three points in lance, but still maxing E first.
Gyrocopter Starting items are super weak, needs a lot more regen. He's not a strong laner and is pretty squishy. I would suggest 2 sets of tangos, mango , salve, and fill with branches and clarities (2x branch and w/e else). Wand should be in his build. Value point in flak cannon before level 8 is definitely needed, as it is used for harass in lane. I think MoM can be in core items but it's not essential.
Pos5 supports should be buying a sentry level one, courier, two sets of tangos and pooling 2x tango to mid, a obs ward or two, and clarities and regen with the rest of the gold. E.g. shadow shaman right now doesn't have enough regen items or sentry in his build.
Shadow Shaman Definitely needs blink as core, before aether or aghs. Even can not bother with mana boots some games and go straight brown boots blink. That item is too good on him.
Witch Doctor Needs 2x points in maledict before getting heal, you don't really need heal early.
Zeus Definitely needs to be QEQWQRQWW talent W. It's really important to be able to shove the wave hard with Zeus, and he can't farm without max Q. Unviable going max W first. If you're core I really like to get the armour, not the XP. You're going to get the XP anyway. I also prefer cast range for level 25, and it's worth noting that without aghs the +0.5s lightning bolt is not good. Starting items should be null and 2x clarity, although in some lanes you don't get null and just start getting soul ring with the strength bits if you can't stand anywhere near the lane. Default is null + 2x clarity, though. Bottle should not be in the build, swap in soul ring instead.
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On March 07 2018 13:10 Birdie wrote: New memestealer build is like, sny radiance solar crest with the 20% evasion talent. Not sure if it's going to last and not everyone builds it, hero sucks if you don't go for that build though IMO.
Phantom Lancer People are maxing phantom rush not lance, it's normally one point in Q and one in W and max E. So QEWEERE or similar. Situationally people are getting two or three points in lance, but still maxing E first.
Gyrocopter Starting items are super weak, needs a lot more regen. He's not a strong laner and is pretty squishy. I would suggest 2 sets of tangos, mango , salve, and fill with branches and clarities (2x branch and w/e else). Wand should be in his build. Value point in flak cannon before level 8 is definitely needed, as it is used for harass in lane. I think MoM can be in core items but it's not essential.
Pos5 supports should be buying a sentry level one, courier, two sets of tangos and pooling 2x tango to mid, a obs ward or two, and clarities and regen with the rest of the gold. E.g. shadow shaman right now doesn't have enough regen items or sentry in his build.
Shadow Shaman Definitely needs blink as core, before aether or aghs. Even can not bother with mana boots some games and go straight brown boots blink. That item is too good on him.
Witch Doctor Needs 2x points in maledict before getting heal, you don't really need heal early.
Zeus Definitely needs to be QEQWQRQWW talent W. It's really important to be able to shove the wave hard with Zeus, and he can't farm without max Q. Unviable going max W first. If you're core I really like to get the armour, not the XP. You're going to get the XP anyway. I also prefer cast range for level 25, and it's worth noting that without aghs the +0.5s lightning bolt is not good. Starting items should be null and 2x clarity, although in some lanes you don't get null and just start getting soul ring with the strength bits if you can't stand anywhere near the lane. Default is null + 2x clarity, though. Bottle should not be in the build, swap in soul ring instead.
 Got it
 This is what everyone's starting with right now, maybe because his last-hitting early on sucks?
Blink is popular, but there are builds without it.
 ok
 ill take a look
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United States15275 Posts
If you are going Lance/SnY on Viper, you need Aquila + Raindrop + Magic Wand. Usually all of them are mandatory during the early game regardless of followup, but Lance/SnY makes mana an even more pressing issue. Otherwise you will almost run out after you use your basic combo, which forces you to TP back to base or flap around uselessly.
There's also the issue of timing. If you finish Pike after going through all those items, you will have significant damage issues going into the mid-lategame. Your magic damage will naturally fall off, and you lack both the physical DPS and farming mechanisms to transition into extension items.
If this is a momentum build, you might as well go Drums first.
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I honestly have no idea how to build viper.
a lot of comp. matches pick him with a strat in mind so it distorts his 'standard' expected build.
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