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On April 16 2021 20:15 Cyro wrote: That's terrible, don't do that.
It's much less safe than using the precision boost system with the SMU and LDO's in control of clocks+frequencies and it's also less performant on everyday tasks unless you're using extreme overclocking voltages which will break a daily system.
My 5900x PB r23 with the same 6 cores enabled is 8-10% higher than yours, i forgot the exact number but it's either around 12,400 or 12,600. With all cores enabled it's 23,552.
Hmm, I've watched some more videos and read some posts. It's claimed that overclocking Ryzen CPUs is sometimes so negligible that you may lose single core performance. Has AMD done a good job if that's the case, are CPUs at their almost maximum? For instance, the video I've posted shows benchmarks how single core performance is 2-3% less, while multithreaded performance is a few percentages higher. Based on it, the last step seems like the best of both worlds, Precision Boost Override in combination of Dynamic OS Switcher. Unfortunately, Dynamic OS Switcher seems to be exclusive to ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero but not my X570-E, so I can't try that.
How do you configure SMU and LDO? I've enabled PBO but I guess that's not the whole story. Also, temps are a bit high like 77 C. It's still about 1000 points less than what you say regarding your score in Cinebench. I've watched a video regarding top intake fans, so the benchmark for my case shows that they could reduce temperature down to 75 C, but the added bonus is I can have some more ARGB for the coolness factor. I mean I've purchased these fans (3+1 because I plan to replace the rear one with an ARGB equivalent): https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B08M4N7V2B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It's claimed that overclocking Ryzen CPUs is sometimes so negligible that you may lose single core performance.
In that case they're referring to overclocking like 2015 intel arch (or 2012 AMD). That hasn't been the best way to adjust recent CPU's for a long time because they do many things smarter and faster than a static voltage and frequency can handle. If this is what people consider "overclocking", then they just haven't kept up to date with the wider field (mem OC is more important than core adjustments for most recent CPU's and is the same as it always was, better even) or with recent improvements to CPU design.
Zen 3 overclocks with per-core v/f curve offsets (under the curve optimizer section) and with options to change power limits, maximum allowed frequency and the desired CPU reliability (adjusted via "scalar" and best left at 1x for a daily). Those settings improve both ST and nT performance.
Using the PB system, the SMU adjusts the CCD clock and many other things such as if the core is in a sleep state or not 1000x per second. Cores sleep all of the time for power management reasons and to allow more important cores to clock up, even while a core is actively being used to play a game it may be asleep for 15% of 1ms cycles during little gaps in load from the engine like waiting for memory access or for a primary thread to do something.
If one core is active, it picks a point on that core's v/f curve depending on the load, the amount of time loaded, the temperature, the voltage headroom that it has from the motherboard's vcore supply (which is many times slower than the CPU) etc.
If multiple cores are turned on, the frequency chosen is based on the weakest active core as well as all of that other stuff.
Since there is a single voltage supply to the cores and their local cache which has to be shared with all of them, there are LDO's which then step down the voltage individually for each core to the level that they need, which reduces power wastage for the CPU. They also help to filter out transient noise from the slower Vcore supply and make the system much easier for the user to configure because this noise is actually a huge problem on other platforms (like cometlake) but a minor after-thought for Vermeer.
Since these are always active, the voltage that the CPU asks for from the mobo's vcore output (VID) is always substantially higher than the voltage actually running through the cores. If you see a 1.40 VID on a lighter all-core load, after vdroop and the LDO stepdown the core is probably running something like 1.30v of real voltage.
Factoring in load, temperature and all that into the clock and voltage targets allows you to overclock the CPU while staying fast, safe and stable in all workloads - being able to run AVX2 Prime95 all day, or run lighter games and boost hard for strong performance. That's actually a pretty big improvement from what we used to have to deal with - we'd have to base overclocks on all-core stability (which clocks much less than the single best cores) and either give up a lot of frequency or not be able to run many intense workloads because they'd crash the system. That's no more :D
Another cool detail is that the zen 3 APU's (Cezanne) uses this voltage regulation system to run both the iGPU and the cores/cache from Vcore without having the Vcore be 0.2v higher than neccesary on one half of the CPU because of only having a single voltage supply. It's not free, but it's much cheaper than running an excessive voltage on some of the heaviest power-consuming parts of the chip. That's one of their strong advantages over skylake-tigerlake mobile right now.
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If you run manual voltage/freq you're disabling basically all of this stuff which makes the CPU slower on light loads and unsafe on heavy loads. There's not really any reason to do so unless you're intentionally trying to run the CPU hard enough to degrade it in order to get slightly more performance like for extreme overclocking - the system won't let you do that otherwise.
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Temperature does have a substantial effect on CPU safety (increasing temperature increases electromigration exponentially) and thus also on the target clocks/voltage of the CPU because it's factoring this in with a mathematical model in real time. Temperature alone also reduces stability, everything else aside - a colder CPU will clock better on the same voltage.
Running the CPU colder results in higher clock speed targets and a bit higher voltages from the SMU.
This also means that if your CPU is hotter, the boost systems may not let you perform as well; that's because they're recognising that the CPU can't be driven quite as hard with these worse conditions or it'll degrade faster. You can override that, but really shouldn't.
I just wanted to thank this thread a few years ago for helping me with a decent budget PC ($1000usd) that is still running everything I play at a good level. I may want to upgrade in the next year but I have never really had a PC go as well as the on I have now has. Thanks a lot.
On April 19 2021 21:48 Onegu wrote: I just wanted to thank this thread a few years ago for helping me with a decent budget PC ($1000usd) that is still running everything I play at a good level. I may want to upgrade in the next year but I have never really had a PC go as well as the on I have now has. Thanks a lot.
On April 16 2021 20:15 Cyro wrote: That's terrible, don't do that.
It's much less safe than using the precision boost system with the SMU and LDO's in control of clocks+frequencies and it's also less performant on everyday tasks unless you're using extreme overclocking voltages which will break a daily system.
My 5900x PB r23 with the same 6 cores enabled is 8-10% higher than yours, i forgot the exact number but it's either around 12,400 or 12,600. With all cores enabled it's 23,552.
Just tested. 5600X (with bottom barrel silicon) PBO limit set to 100w (works out to ~4.5ghz all-core) gets around 11.6k points so yeah, definitely in the right ballpark if you have ~300mhz more all core. IIRC I just set +200mhz (gets to ~4.85ghz single core), -20 curve optimizer offset and called it a day because -25 wasn't stable. Not much point in pushing harder for what I use it for.
11.4k is definitely low for a 5900X, it's around where I get with the default ~77W power limit.
Just wanted to say after 5ish years my PC that people here helped me build is still Rollin. I did have to replace to Video card about 4 months ago but in all honesty she was past her prime anyways. Cheers.
I've been as fast as to add ASUS RTX 3090 TUF Gaming for $1,839.99 (no tax included) to cart, but it's not the best for its price so I decided against it. Expectedly, someone else has bought it.
ASUS ROG Strix 3090 seems better. I don't know if I'll manage to get it in white though, it seems hard. Might have to settle for the classic one if I don't want to wait too long. Or, RTX 3070/3080 and a plan to upgrade in 1-2 years when chip shortage will have been resolved by then.
Ok, I've purchased it to try it. By the way, I've read some bad reviews about Gigabyte Vision graphics card, some people report that it dies after 2 months. Not sure if true but it sounds really bad.
I've managed to grab an RTX 3060 at a good price (sold by Amazon, so no scalpers). Price below includes taxes to ship to EU. It's not ASUS ROG Strix RTX 3090 White that I wanted but I guess it's good for my wallet and patience to skip this and if necessary next year due to shortages and crazy prices. Still much better than my MSI GTX 980 Twin Frozr. I also won't have to wake up at ~5 AM to check my e-mail if I've won Newegg shuffle or any less than ideal plan like that.
If I manage to sell my old PC with my MSI GTX 980 Twin Frozr it won't be a significant investment. I think it's a good plan to transition once all is ok with GPUs in 2022-2023.
It was kinda sad to make a new PC with my old GTX 980 so that would do during these tough times.
do you think is there profit, albeit small, from buying cheap/used parts, assembling them to a complete PC and selling it?
I am beginning to accumulate some spare parts from the upgrades to mine and my brother's pc, most of them from the intel 4th gen era, which may add up to a complete PC with a few additions. It will probably be a mini itx home-theater/light gamer/net surfer build. I can try to sell it or it can be a spare PC collecting dust in a corner. I wondered if I can continue reusing older parts, buying missing ones second hand, and turn this into a hobby without losing money.
Quick update, I've cancelled the RTX 3060 since it's not good enough for my ambitious PC with Ryzen 9 5900x, 2 TB M.2 SSD and other high end parts. And I didn't want to bother with scalping. I've backordered ASUS ROG Strix 3080 White for a slight premium over MSRP. Hopefully I get it soonish like by July or August but I've honestly not got confirmation yet. I've figured out based on my research that RTX 3090 isn't worth it because it has like ~10-15 fps more than RTX 3080 while its cost is double. However, it's true that RTX 3090 is easier to buy in this situation than RTX 3080. Why that's the case is beyond me, so that's my only explanation why most people buy (with bot or not) RTX 3090 for gaming. Maybe RTX 3080 Ti will still be a good deal but I have my doubts about RTX 3090 in terms of price/performance. There are many benchmarks videos on YouTube where they show how RTX 3080 and RTX 3090 compete against each other in 4k if you're interested. IMPORTANT: Only RTX 3090 right now can have SLI in case you're planning to get 2x 3060/3070/3080. I don't know how things are with upcoming 3070 Ti and 3080 Ti though.
Also, based on my research once again, there appears to be 2 distribution channels for graphics cards. Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but 1) GPUs only sales and 2) prebuilt PCs. Some people seem to buy prebuilts just to get a graphics card and then they sell the prebuilt PC. I can't say how easy it is to sell it though.
Also, there are rumours that RTX 4090 is going to be twice better than RTX 3090 but rumours are rumours. That's probably good if you/we don't get RTX 30 series cards, sort of like relief.
There are currently Discord channels where bots post when a graphics card is available (Currys, Amazon, BestBuy, etc) but as soon as you click the link it's gone in an instant. That's how I got that RTX 3060 card before which I cancelled as I wrote above. You still buy it manually in this case, you only have a notification when it's up for sale. However, you're competing against bots at that point.
Recently NVIDIA has announced that graphics cards (except RTX 3090 that one is untouched) shipped after May are going to mine Ethereum twice slower. This move is intented to help us gamers to get a graphics card at a good price but it remains to be seen. Such cards will have LHR (Lite Hash Rate) labels. RTX 3070 Ti and 3080 Ti may not have one since they are "new" and are going to be released soon. Resell value might be affected if you intend to sell your GPU at some point.
Edit: I've decided to share some knowledge even though I intended a short post. I guess not being able to get a graphics card leaves you enough time to research. Hopefully this helps people to catch up with the current situation.
However, it's true that RTX 3090 is easier to buy in this situation than RTX 3080. Why that's the case is beyond me
For a 3090 to mine you have to pay twice as much and then physically modify most cards to cool the second rank of memory on the backside of the PCB just to get a 20% better hashrate. They're a much longer and riskier payoff than a 3080.
Twice slower isn't nearly enough to make mining unprofitable but i heard it was enough to make them slower than RDNA2.
Any idea when the best time to go in on a PC might be? Seems like GPUs are still kind of guttered by chip stuff and cryptonerds. I’m almost in a position to finally be able to get a PC and I wanna know if there’s any reason to wait or just go for it when I have the cash on hand?
On June 01 2021 21:50 Zambrah wrote: Any idea when the best time to go in on a PC might be? Seems like GPUs are still kind of guttered by chip stuff and cryptonerds. I’m almost in a position to finally be able to get a PC and I wanna know if there’s any reason to wait or just go for it when I have the cash on hand?
Seems to be whenever you can buy a GPU at a reasonable price. The only option for that is to try and score an AMD GPU for MSRP off amd.com, prices have only gone up elsewhere after launch. Outside possibility is the LHR GPUs from Nvidia (specifically the 3070TI at 599) which could be a reasonable bet, given that Nvidia is less likely to accidentally screw up the hash rate limiter.
SSDs took a minor hammering with Chia, but that's died down pretty quick, or at least, not really hurt supplies/inventory too much, and everything else (CPU/RAM/Mobo) seems to be in pretty good supply all things considered.
A GPU MADE TO BE BAD FOR CRYPTO MINING? Be still my beating heart, I've learned a new thing I love today. Im going to have to look into that more because if the major bottle neck is GPUs and it doesnt look like thats gonna change any time soon then the LHR GPUs is probably where Im going to be looking assuming they aren't in some important way terrible for what I need a GPU for, lol.
On June 02 2021 06:01 Zambrah wrote: A GPU MADE TO BE BAD FOR CRYPTO MINING? Be still my beating heart, I've learned a new thing I love today. Im going to have to look into that more because if the major bottle neck is GPUs and it doesnt look like thats gonna change any time soon then the LHR GPUs is probably where Im going to be looking assuming they aren't in some important way terrible for what I need a GPU for, lol.
Ryzen 5900/5950x were harder to get last time I checked but it's nowhere as bad as the GPU situation.
On June 02 2021 06:01 Zambrah wrote: A GPU MADE TO BE BAD FOR CRYPTO MINING? Be still my beating heart, I've learned a new thing I love today. Im going to have to look into that more because if the major bottle neck is GPUs and it doesnt look like thats gonna change any time soon then the LHR GPUs is probably where Im going to be looking assuming they aren't in some important way terrible for what I need a GPU for, lol.
Ryzen 5900/5950x were harder to get last time I checked but it's nowhere as bad as the GPU situation.
EPT
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