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I just downloaded Mouse Movement Recorder, which shows mouse and pointer movement, showing green bars for pixel drops and red for skips.
My mouse runs perfectly at 1:1 without either, but when i make fast movements, i get a lot of pixel drops (50+%).
I knew my mouse wasnt tracking all too well at high speeds, but this is far far worse than i thought it was...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AH5S4.png)
I only get the red (skip) after massive drop chains, not during normal movement etc
Im at 800dpi, 6/11, accel disabled, and everything works fine with standard movement, but as soon as i make fast sweeps (turning in FPS, marine splitting, some osu) i get this.
Would really like to know what is causing this, i have steelseries qxc+ mousemat and was going to buy the CM Storm Spawn soon, but was holding out because im a bit short on cash and i thought my current mouse was working fine (It is the steelseries WoW gaming mouse... horrible shape, but it seemed to work fine)
If anyone knows whats up please post, ty, want to get this fixed ASAP
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do you play with a mousepad or a glass table?
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On October 11 2011 03:05 Boblhead wrote:
do you play with a mousepad or a glass table?
On October 11 2011 03:03 Cyro wrote:
Would really like to know what is causing this, i have steelseries qxc+ mousemat
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On October 11 2011 03:10 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:05 Boblhead wrote:
do you play with a mousepad or a glass table? Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:03 Cyro wrote:
Would really like to know what is causing this, i have steelseries qxc+ mousemat
T_T didnt see that. Hmm well usually when pixels skip its either a shitty mousepad or a bad surface area. It could be the opticle at the bottom of your mouse is dirty. Or if you have raged and slammed your mouse there could of been some little thing that shakes or moves if your mouse moves to fast.
how old is your mousepad and is it super worn?
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Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality.
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Just what speeds are you moving your mouse at? Are you going over 2m/s (Depends on which "SteelSeries WoW" mouse you have, Cactalysm or the very early one that does 400-3,200 DPI? If you're using the cactalysm mouse then it's malfunction speed is 6m/s).
Also have you tried testing it on a lower polling rate? Say 250 or 125hz?
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On October 11 2011 03:13 Boblhead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:10 Cyro wrote:On October 11 2011 03:05 Boblhead wrote:
do you play with a mousepad or a glass table? On October 11 2011 03:03 Cyro wrote:
Would really like to know what is causing this, i have steelseries qxc+ mousemat
T_T didnt see that. Hmm well usually when pixels skip its either a shitty mousepad or a bad surface area. It could be the opticle at the bottom of your mouse is dirty. Or if you have raged and slammed your mouse there could of been some little thing that shakes or moves if your mouse moves to fast. how old is your mousepad and is it super worn?
It is a month or two, i cleaned it once lightly with warm water and dried it out with a cloth, left it a while etc after reading some suggestions
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On October 11 2011 03:16 Matuka wrote:
Just what speeds are you moving your mouse at? Are you going over 2m/s (Depends on which "SteelSeries WoW" mouse you have, Cactalysm or the very early one that does 400-3,200 DPI? If you're using the cactalysm mouse then it's malfunction speed is 6m/s).
Its the older one, bought it a little after release, i dont think im passing 2m/s, the recorder goes CRAZY during osu spins etc, even at 200rpm over a small area
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On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality.
Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc.
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On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality.
I looked into mice a lot and was going to buy the CM Storm Spawn, but as i said im not sure what the issue is or if another mouse will fix it, i think this mouse just has tracking problems with fast speed but i dont have the knowledge to say much about that
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On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality. Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc.
Il agree with the keyboards sucking (I have one) and them having a lot of mice issues, however steelseries has a far worse history with mice, they even advertise negative and positive acceleration as features since people started complaining about both
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Yeah, on mice, I'd suggest Razer, on Keyboards, SteelSeries, between the two, ignoring specific feature needs. Hardware acceleration in a lot of the SS mice isn't something I'd want. That said, I can't stand a lot of Razer's mouse designs.
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On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality.
I digress. Some razer mice such as the Imperator and the Mamba are using Phillips Twin-Eye sensors of which are commonly known to have issues involving the z-axis. Upon lifting the mouse up, it will move down to the bottom right by a few inches and is actually pretty annoying. I suggest you avoid these mice. Whereas the Abyssus is actually a good pickup. Despite that the earlier models of the Abyssus have jittering (of which cant be fixed due to improperly planned out firmware issues), the later versions are ideal. Also the Deathadder is another great pickup from Razer. These two are probably the only products from Razer that are ideal for someone whose mouse-keen as I am, they're relatively flawless and ideal for any gamer (Especially now that Razer have released the left-handed version of the Deathadder).
Personally I'd avoid Razer and get a Microsoft Intelimouse 1.1, Microsoft Intelimouse 3.0, or a Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1A. Relatively flawless mice, all three of them. They all use the same sensor (MicroElectronics MLT 04).
On October 11 2011 03:22 Cyro wrote:
Il agree with the keyboards sucking (I have one) and them having a lot of mice issues, however steelseries has a far worse history with mice, they even advertise negative and positive acceleration as features since people started complaining about both
Indeed a mistake on SteelSeries part. At least they're honest. Just wished they negated all hardware acceleration and had commands like in Quake 3 CPMA to configurate your mouse acceleration.
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So replacing my mouse will fix this?
also none commented on the CM Storm Spawn, from what i heard it had a better sensor than even deathadder/abyssus
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Stupid question: What is the mouse recorder everyone's been using?
On Topic: I've heard great things about the CM Spawn. Can't really go too wrong with the Deathadder, as its been a standard for a while now. At any rate, the pixel skipping issues should be fixed with any higher DPI mouse, but Steelseries mice have that built in acceleration "feature" which annoys the crap out of people.
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On October 11 2011 03:56 MaliciousOne wrote:
Stupid question: What is the mouse recorder everyone's been using?
On Topic: I've heard great things about the CM Spawn. Can't really go too wrong with the Deathadder, as its been a standard for a while now. At any rate, the pixel skipping issues should be fixed with any higher DPI mouse, but Steelseries mice have that built in acceleration "feature" which annoys the crap out of people.
I was going to do a LMGTFY on that, but when I checked, there's actually about 63 trillion shady download links and unrelated products.
So yeah, this is a good question, and might be handy to have in the OP.
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On October 11 2011 04:01 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:56 MaliciousOne wrote:
Stupid question: What is the mouse recorder everyone's been using?
On Topic: I've heard great things about the CM Spawn. Can't really go too wrong with the Deathadder, as its been a standard for a while now. At any rate, the pixel skipping issues should be fixed with any higher DPI mouse, but Steelseries mice have that built in acceleration "feature" which annoys the crap out of people. I was going to do a LMGTFY on that, but when I checked, there's actually about 63 trillion shady download links and unrelated products. So yeah, this is a good question, and might be handy to have in the OP.
I downloaded it days ago and just remembered about it, dont have the link, found it in another TL thread... just got the .exe "Mouse Movement Recorder" and the OP screenshot
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On October 11 2011 03:56 MaliciousOne wrote:
Stupid question: What is the mouse recorder everyone's been using?
On Topic: I've heard great things about the CM Spawn. Can't really go too wrong with the Deathadder, as its been a standard for a while now. At any rate, the pixel skipping issues should be fixed with any higher DPI mouse, but Steelseries mice have that built in acceleration "feature" which annoys the crap out of people.
It isnt acceleration, the mouse runs fine at 1:1 with no negative or positive accel unless i move very quickly, when i get massive negative accel. It is the same at 800dpi or 3200dpi
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i suggest you ask the maker of mouse movement recorder and windows 7 accel fix - markthec
here:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1846538
As for mice advice i also suggest the esreality hardware forum not here were even pro gamers like drewbie don't know about the accel of avago adns9500 sensor in xai, sensei, g500, g9x or that the only good mouse razer ever made was the deathadder 1800dpi
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On October 11 2011 17:42 Srdjan2311 wrote:i suggest you ask the maker of mouse movement recorder and windows 7 accel fix - markthec here: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1846538 As for mice advice i also suggest the esreality hardware forum not here were even pro gamers like drewbie don't know about the accel of avago adns9500 sensor in xai, sensei, g500, g9x or that the only good mouse razer ever made was the deathadder 1800dpi
Thanks! The Mouse Movement Recorder is included in his acceleration fix. Interesting stuff on the different mouse sensors. No problems with either the 3500dpi Deathadder or 4000dpi Lachesis (though, I would advise against the Lachesis models just because they're a bit awkward to get used to).
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So getting a "good" mouse (CM spawn) would fix this? no straight answers yet and i want to be sure
sorry if the earlier post about that hardware forum was directed at me but i really have no idea what to ask
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Yes getting a better mouse will fix it you can find relevant mouse information
here
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On October 11 2011 23:39 Srdjan2311 wrote:Yes getting a better mouse will fix it you can find relevant mouse information here
Ok, now im confused, what is the problem? the spawns max speed is listed as 60ips, but my current mouse is 65, is the issue seperate from that?
That review said a lot of bad stuff about the spawns 800dpi, but 1800 is way too fast, i was even considering going below 800 if i got rid of the massive negative acceleration. Is the 800dpi on the storm unsalvagable without jitter/prediction/inconsistency?
I looked more into the abyssus, its specs say 60-120ips and it seems to work pretty well at 450dpi, and the 1800 can be halved using the razer driver or 4/11 windows if need be, not ideal but it should still work without skipping, right?
am i missing anything
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I said getting a better mouse not getting a cm spawn.
your steelseries wow mouse has perfect control up to 1.67 m/s
cm spawn -||- 1.7 m/s
abyssus -||- 3.92 m/s (but older releases have the jitter issue)
so between spawn and abyssus where is the confusion. But imho both are no match for the old deathadder or mx518.
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On October 12 2011 02:41 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 23:39 Srdjan2311 wrote:Yes getting a better mouse will fix it you can find relevant mouse information here Ok, now im confused, what is the problem? the spawns max speed is listed as 60ips, but my current mouse is 65, is the issue seperate from that? That review said a lot of bad stuff about the spawns 800dpi, but 1800 is way too fast, i was even considering going below 800 if i got rid of the massive negative acceleration. Is the 800dpi on the storm unsalvagable without jitter/prediction/inconsistency? I looked more into the abyssus, its specs say 60-120ips and it seems to work pretty well at 450dpi, and the 1800 can be halved using the razer driver or 4/11 windows if need be, not ideal but it should still work without skipping, right? am i missing anything
The review saying 1800 DPI is too much is nonsense. You can independently change DPI and sensitivity. Think of it this way: DPI is how precise your mouse can be, and sensitivity is how that translates to how much your mouse actually moves. Having a high DPI simply means that your mouse has the ability to be more sensitive, and is more precise at reading the surface its on.
Any "gaming" mouse will come with its own program to control sensitivity. IMO, your DPI should always be set to max and then you should decrease the sensitivity within that program until you are comfortable. The only times a high DPI will get you into trouble is if the surface under your mouse is irregular (i.e. a good number of crappy cheap mousepads). Everyone will like the sensitivity and DPI at different settings, so alot is left up to personal preference, but you should get the mouse that allows you to move your cursor as fast as you can without losing your own accuracy. Personally, I feel like I can do this with my Deathadder (3500dpi at max sensitivity in the razer program, 6/11 in windows, 53% in SC2), but it will differ from person to person.
Windows sensitivity should be set to 6/11 to avoid windows messing with how your mouse responds. Too high and it will skip pixels. SC2 sensitivity should also be set to some odd number (like 53 or something) to avoid similar behavior. I'm not sure how exactly SC2 does it, so I can't elaborate further.
EDIT: IPS (inches per second) just means how fast you can move your mouse before the sensor can't track it. Maybe you can move your wrist faster than a full 5 feet per second... but I've never run into an issue with this. Maybe others have.
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On October 12 2011 03:22 Srdjan2311 wrote:
I said getting a better mouse not getting a cm spawn.
your steelseries wow mouse has perfect control up to 1.67 m/s
cm spawn -||- 1.7 m/s
abyssus -||- 3.92 m/s (but older releases have the jitter issue)
so between spawn and abyssus where is the confusion. But imho both are no match for the old deathadder or mx518.
Thanks. I heard only good things about the spawn before and wasnt sure of any stats
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On October 12 2011 03:54 MaliciousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 02:41 Cyro wrote:On October 11 2011 23:39 Srdjan2311 wrote:Yes getting a better mouse will fix it you can find relevant mouse information here Ok, now im confused, what is the problem? the spawns max speed is listed as 60ips, but my current mouse is 65, is the issue seperate from that? That review said a lot of bad stuff about the spawns 800dpi, but 1800 is way too fast, i was even considering going below 800 if i got rid of the massive negative acceleration. Is the 800dpi on the storm unsalvagable without jitter/prediction/inconsistency? I looked more into the abyssus, its specs say 60-120ips and it seems to work pretty well at 450dpi, and the 1800 can be halved using the razer driver or 4/11 windows if need be, not ideal but it should still work without skipping, right? am i missing anything The review saying 1800 DPI is too much is nonsense. You can independently change DPI and sensitivity. Think of it this way: DPI is how precise your mouse can be, and sensitivity is how that translates to how much your mouse actually moves. Having a high DPI simply means that your mouse has the ability to be more sensitive, and is more precise at reading the surface its on. Any "gaming" mouse will come with its own program to control sensitivity. IMO, your DPI should always be set to max and then you should decrease the sensitivity within that program until you are comfortable. The only times a high DPI will get you into trouble is if the surface under your mouse is irregular (i.e. a good number of crappy cheap mousepads). Everyone will like the sensitivity and DPI at different settings, so alot is left up to personal preference, but you should get the mouse that allows you to move your cursor as fast as you can without losing your own accuracy. Personally, I feel like I can do this with my Deathadder (3500dpi at max sensitivity in the razer program, 6/11 in windows, 53% in SC2), but it will differ from person to person. Windows sensitivity should be set to 6/11 to avoid windows messing with how your mouse responds. Too high and it will skip pixels. SC2 sensitivity should also be set to some odd number (like 53 or something) to avoid similar behavior. I'm not sure how exactly SC2 does it, so I can't elaborate further. EDIT: IPS (inches per second) just means how fast you can move your mouse before the sensor can't track it. Maybe you can move your wrist faster than a full 5 feet per second... but I've never run into an issue with this. Maybe others have.
You misunderstand, the review doenst say 1800dpi is too much, i do.
I play starcraft 2 at 1920x1080, 51% sens, 6/11 with accel disabled at 800dpi.
I dropped down to 800 over a week or so from 3200 because i could when i got my steelseries qxc+ (45cmx40cm) and it helped me so much with accuracy, micro and pretty much everything.
Decreasing sensitivity instead of DPI to slow your mouse down will create pixel skipping, just as having windows above or below 6/11 will. 75% sensitivity in a razer driver will skip over every third pixel, making it impossible to select, whereas lowering DPI from 1000 to 750 will slow down the mouse on average by the same amount without any skipping. That is why people suggest raising/lowering DPI instead of sens
The IPS issue was described in my OP, my mouse tracks perfectly at the moment, but when i make very quick movements i get massive amounts of negative acceleration from the mouse failing to track properly, i didnt think i was moving THAT fast but it is plausible.
Using 1.6 meters per second as an example, if we scale down, that is 16cm in 0.1 seconds, it seems very high, but either way im hitting it during all tests and several games, so getting a mouse with higher speed supported would fix my negative acceleration during (and only during) fast movement issue.
The reason i said 4/11 windows sensitivity is to avoid pixel skipping. 6/11 reads the mouse at a 1:1 ratio with dpi, 5/11 for example is 0.8 or something, skipping over some pixels because it cant scale directly into 1.
at 4/11 sensitivity, windows skips over exactly every second pixel in a consistent fashion, effectively halving your DPI, still allowing you to select every pixel on the screen.
Whereas 5/11 might move the mouse 1010110101011, skipping inconsistently, 4/11 will move 101010101010 (much more consistent)
My last explanation there is probably bad, but basically 4/11 doesnt skip inconsistently like other non-6/11 settings do.
Thanks for the post, but i dont think you know enough to help me (not that i do either, or i wouldnt have made the topic in the first place)
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:58 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 03:22 Srdjan2311 wrote:
I said getting a better mouse not getting a cm spawn.
your steelseries wow mouse has perfect control up to 1.67 m/s
cm spawn -||- 1.7 m/s
abyssus -||- 3.92 m/s (but older releases have the jitter issue)
so between spawn and abyssus where is the confusion. But imho both are no match for the old deathadder or mx518.
Thanks. I heard only good things about the spawn before and wasnt sure of any stats
Older releases? would i be at risk of getting one now, or were they all recalled etc?
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its a well-known fact that the abyssus is inconsistent. there's no sure way to tell if you'll get one that doesnt jitter. generally speaking the lol edition seems to be less likely to have the jitter issues. There is also the lod issue where some have high lod and others low.
http://ariekanarie.nl/archives/282/mouse-jitter-on-cloth-pads
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@ Cyro
My apologies, that post really helped me out as well. I suppose I never thought about the skipping inherent in the sensitivity controls either. Learn something new everyday!
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@MaliciousOne there are games where what you said is true (that use the raw input model for interpreting mouse data). Windows sensitivity and settings matter and should always be at 6th notch if the game is using WM_MOUSEMOVE (or GetCursorPos). Sadly this is the case with starcraft.
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On October 12 2011 04:26 Srdjan2311 wrote:its a well-known fact that the abyssus is inconsistent. there's no sure way to tell if you'll get one that doesnt jitter. generally speaking the lol edition seems to be less likely to have the jitter issues. There is also the lod issue where some have high lod and others low. http://ariekanarie.nl/archives/282/mouse-jitter-on-cloth-pads
Are you serious? That is a massive problem on a mouse that is about $55 here plus delivery...
Should i just buy one and return until i get one that works...?
lod isnt a deal breaker i guess, id like low but i dont play FPS at a high level anymore
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On October 12 2011 05:10 Srdjan2311 wrote:
@MaliciousOne there are games where what you said is true (that use the raw input model for interpreting mouse data). Windows sensitivity and settings matter and should always be at 6th notch if the game is using WM_MOUSEMOVE (or GetCursorPos). Sadly this is the case with starcraft.
Starcraft 2 has its own sensitivity slider which is seperate from windows, 51-54% is the same as 6/11 - the game completely ignores your windows sensitivity though unless you enable a new checkbox avalible in 1.4 to read mouse data from windows
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On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality. Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc.
I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing.
I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them.
It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers.
Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not.
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On October 12 2011 05:33 Cyro wrote:Are you serious? That is a massive problem on a mouse that is about $55 here plus delivery... Should i just buy one and return until i get one that works...? lod isnt a deal breaker i guess, id like low but i dont play FPS at a high level anymore
quoting myself to bump
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like you said: since you don't play games where mouse consistency matters i would say yes go for the abyssus if you like his shape best. If you want a mouse that will never fail you go for the mx518, old deathadder 3g, g1, intelli 1.1, inteeli 3.0 or wmo. Its your choice. For me personally, even if the the abyssus had a great sensor like deathadder 3g i still wouldn't buy it - the mouse is too small, smaller than g1 even.
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On October 12 2011 22:01 Srdjan2311 wrote:
like you said: since you don't play games where mouse consistency matters i would say yes go for the abyssus if you like his shape best. If you want a mouse that will never fail you go for the mx518, old deathadder 3g, g1, intelli 1.1, inteeli 3.0 or wmo. Its your choice. For me personally, even if the the abyssus had a great sensor like deathadder 3g i still wouldn't buy it - the mouse is too small, smaller than g1 even.
I said that lift off distance wasnt a deal breaker... consistency is 100% mandatory, i cant even imagine trying to individually blink stalkers at 150+apm with a mouse that jitters off to one side for no reason, nor even casually playing a fps.
cant find the old deathadder anywhere, the intellimouse series has low max speed (why i made the thread in the first place) etc
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On October 12 2011 06:48 JayDee_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality. Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc. I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing. I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them. It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers. Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not.
If i were to just go and buy an abyssus on amazon.co.uk etc, what are the chances of getting one that doenst jitter horribly?
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What are the sensors like on the Roccat mice? I have a friend that was looking at those given that they're now sold in the US.
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On October 12 2011 22:48 MaliciousOne wrote:
What are the sensors like on the Roccat mice? I have a friend that was looking at those given that they're now sold in the US.
Most of them have different sensors, several having issues... i havnt heard much about those mice so i dont think they are anything special
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On October 12 2011 22:42 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:48 JayDee_ wrote:On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality. Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc. I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing. I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them. It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers. Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not. If i were to just go and buy an abyssus on amazon.co.uk etc, what are the chances of getting one that doenst jitter horribly?
Depends on where you get it from. If you get one of the old Abyssi then yes it will jitter. I have the "LoL version" which is new and doesn't jitter. Maybe order directly from Razer?
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On October 13 2011 16:25 JayDee_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 22:42 Cyro wrote:On October 12 2011 06:48 JayDee_ wrote:On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality. Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc. I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing. I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them. It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers. Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not. If i were to just go and buy an abyssus on amazon.co.uk etc, what are the chances of getting one that doenst jitter horribly? Depends on where you get it from. If you get one of the old Abyssi then yes it will jitter. I have the "LoL version" which is new and doesn't jitter. Maybe order directly from Razer?
They dont have the LoL version in stock, and they take 4 days to deliver to the UK (costing about $12-14 more in total than other stores) so im still debating what to do... ive heard the LoL version can jitter too and talked to one guy who returned three back-to-back from different stores and still couldnt find one that worked on a qxc
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On October 14 2011 03:44 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 16:25 JayDee_ wrote:On October 12 2011 22:42 Cyro wrote:On October 12 2011 06:48 JayDee_ wrote:On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality. Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc. I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing. I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them. It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers. Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not. If i were to just go and buy an abyssus on amazon.co.uk etc, what are the chances of getting one that doenst jitter horribly? Depends on where you get it from. If you get one of the old Abyssi then yes it will jitter. I have the "LoL version" which is new and doesn't jitter. Maybe order directly from Razer? They dont have the LoL version in stock, and they take 4 days to deliver to the UK (costing about $12-14 more in total than other stores) so im still debating what to do... ive heard the LoL version can jitter too and talked to one guy who returned three back-to-back from different stores and still couldnt find one that worked on a qxc
Yea the Abyssus is quite the dice roll mouse, never know if you get one with or without problems, although if you don't care for prediction you could try the Salmosa. Or you could try buying from a store and keep returning them until one works. And I bet qxc must be proud that we named a mouse pad after him.
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Hi. I might be late to this thread but I have something to say.
I was fixing my mouse along time ago when I ran across this. The readme associated with this mouse recorder says the red blocks does not indicate any problem with the mouse, it is merely the software showing you where it is unable to make a measurement.
Take my MX518, which is often described as being the best mouse ever made.
+ Show Spoiler +
After I made heavy modifications to the way Win7 views the mouse. I am running a custom mouse registry fix, and I am also running win7 in test mode to keep my polling rate fix active.
I believe this phenomenon is due to something called mouse prediction. Mouse prediction is found in every single mouse. It is also very poorly understood by the community at large.
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Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old
+ Show Spoiler +
And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft.
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On October 14 2011 03:44 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2011 16:25 JayDee_ wrote:On October 12 2011 22:42 Cyro wrote:On October 12 2011 06:48 JayDee_ wrote:On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote:On October 11 2011 03:16 JayDee_ wrote:
Steelseries makes terrible mice. They generally have lots of inherent +/- acceleration, prediction, and poor response. I would suggest buying a razer mouse. The abyssus is relatively cheap and high quality. Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc. I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing. I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them. It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers. Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not. If i were to just go and buy an abyssus on amazon.co.uk etc, what are the chances of getting one that doenst jitter horribly? Depends on where you get it from. If you get one of the old Abyssi then yes it will jitter. I have the "LoL version" which is new and doesn't jitter. Maybe order directly from Razer? They dont have the LoL version in stock, and they take 4 days to deliver to the UK (costing about $12-14 more in total than other stores) so im still debating what to do... ive heard the LoL version can jitter too and talked to one guy who returned three back-to-back from different stores and still couldnt find one that worked on a qxc
A qxc? I use an Allsop XL. You're thinking too much about it. Get one from a source that isn't hocking off reusable mice. If it doesn't work oh well.
else
{ get a logitech mini. if it's good enough for BW pros, it's good enough for you  }
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On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft.
Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction.
Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place.
http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.html
Picture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line.
![[image loading]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/turbosupercharger/image001.png)
And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe.
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On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe.
You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it...
I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much...
Either your mouse has far more prediction than you think, or you are using the wrong settings in MSpaint and your line is more than 1 pixel thick (or being software corrected) because i couldnt draw 10% of that picture to save my life at even 400dpi
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On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec
Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time.
Also read the link.
Also try to understand what "polling rate" means. The motherboard doesn't try to rip the bits out of the mouse, thats not how it works. Polling rate is how often the motherboard checks the device for input. If the change state is still 0, it moves on. Thats why that application will read a lower polling rate.
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On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link.
That depends how you define prediction... as far as ive seen it used before, it is used only to describe forcing straight lines to be drawn ("predicting" the line you was trying to draw with an inaccurate hand)
with that definition, yeah, all mouse have prediction.
But nobody uses that definition
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On October 15 2011 14:44 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link. That depends how you define prediction... as far as ive seen it used before, it is used only to describe forcing straight lines to be drawn ("predicting" the line you was trying to draw with an inaccurate hand) with that definition, yeah, all mouse have prediction. But nobody uses that definition
It is important to recognize that as the true definition, since it is indeed what is going on.
It is true that some less than reputable mice have overdone prediction. But it is important to note that there is no clear line between prediction and not prediction. How aggressive the prediction is for a mouse is up to the developer only.
EDIT: Also by recognizing that all mice have prediction, it enables us to measure its effects, especially as far as polling rate is concerned.
As we can see from that article, the true enemy is polling rate. Faster polling rates means less prediction is required.
You know that graph where the MX518 draws all straight lines and the intellimouse doesn't? At default poll rate this mouse draws a lot of overtly straight lines. At 1k I am able to make slight gradients that were impossible with a lower polling rate.
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On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link. Also try to understand what "polling rate" means. The motherboard doesn't try to rip the bits out of the mouse, thats not how it works. Polling rate is how often the motherboard checks the device for input. If the change state is still 0, it moves on. Thats why that application will read a lower polling rate.
I understand what it means.
The program works fine.
If you are not moving your mouse, "if the change state is still 0" then the application simply doenst update.
A new line is added for every poll while the mouse is moving, and nothing changes while the sensor is not reading movement.
Whatever setting i use, my polling rate stays the same. If it is set to 1000hz, it fluxuates from 998 to 1002 or so, if i set 250hz, it sits around 248-252. Your mouse seems to be broken as hell with those readings, and with the massive fluxuations in polling rate
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On October 15 2011 14:48 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link. Also try to understand what "polling rate" means. The motherboard doesn't try to rip the bits out of the mouse, thats not how it works. Polling rate is how often the motherboard checks the device for input. If the change state is still 0, it moves on. Thats why that application will read a lower polling rate. I understand what it means. The program works fine. If you are not moving your mouse, "if the change state is still 0" then the application simply doenst update. A new line is added for every poll while the mouse is moving, and nothing changes while the sensor is not reading movement. Whatever setting i use, my polling rate stays the same. If it is set to 1000hz, it fluxuates from 998 to 1002 or so, if i set 250hz, it sits around 248-252. Your mouse seems to be broken as hell with those readings, and with the massive fluxuations in polling rate
There are no fluctuations. The device is overpolled on purpose. The application is reading normal. All polls take place around 1000, 500, or 250. This is normal for all overpolled devices. Newer mice update faster than mine is all this means.
Overpolling is not dangerous or harmful to accuracy in any way. Remember you are just checking to see if the device has changed anything.
EDIT: And some 333's but Ill mention that later.
UPDATE: Here is another picture, this is me going fairly psychotic with the mouse. Compare with the poster that was below me earlier.
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice that the values are all way way lower. This is because way less change happened between polled movements, and I was really whipping my mouse around. Also notice that there were no skipped values. Also the perceived polling rate was a constant 1000 or 500.
This is because even though the MX518 is really old mouse, it updates faster than 250 times a second. It updates faster than 500 times a second in fact. But users do not understand how important this is. Because users are polling there mouse well below the update value of the mouse, prediction plays a bigger role in there mousing practices than it should.
And to emphasize again. Polling is done by the motherboard. Not the mouse. Saying my mouse is broken, and pointing to polling rate, makes no sense.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
On October 15 2011 14:52 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 14:48 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link. Also try to understand what "polling rate" means. The motherboard doesn't try to rip the bits out of the mouse, thats not how it works. Polling rate is how often the motherboard checks the device for input. If the change state is still 0, it moves on. Thats why that application will read a lower polling rate. I understand what it means. The program works fine. If you are not moving your mouse, "if the change state is still 0" then the application simply doenst update. A new line is added for every poll while the mouse is moving, and nothing changes while the sensor is not reading movement. Whatever setting i use, my polling rate stays the same. If it is set to 1000hz, it fluxuates from 998 to 1002 or so, if i set 250hz, it sits around 248-252. Your mouse seems to be broken as hell with those readings, and with the massive fluxuations in polling rate There are no fluctuations. The device is overpolled on purpose. The application is reading normal. All polls take place around 1000, 500, or 250. This is normal for all overpolled devices. Newer mice update faster than mine is all this means. Overpolling is not dangerous or harmful to accuracy in any way. Remember you are just checking to see if the device has changed anything. EDIT: And some 333's but Ill mention that later. UPDATE: Here is another picture, this is me going fairly psychotic with the mouse. Compare with the poster that was below me earlier. + Show Spoiler +Notice that the values are all way way lower. This is because way less change happened between polled movements, and I was really whipping my mouse around. Also notice that there were no skipped values. Also the perceived polling rate was a constant 1000 or 500. This is because even though the MX518 is really old mouse, it updates faster than 250 times a second. It updates faster than 500 times a second in fact. But users do not understand how important this is. Because users are polling there mouse well below the update value of the mouse, prediction plays a bigger role in there mousing practices than it should. And to emphasize again. Polling is done by the motherboard. Not the mouse. Saying my mouse is broken, and pointing to polling rate, makes no sense.
If polling is done on the motherboard always, why do i have a hardware switch on my mouse to adjust it?
You shouldnt be getting those results on mouse movement recorder either way with perfect tracking
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On October 15 2011 15:27 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 14:52 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:48 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link. Also try to understand what "polling rate" means. The motherboard doesn't try to rip the bits out of the mouse, thats not how it works. Polling rate is how often the motherboard checks the device for input. If the change state is still 0, it moves on. Thats why that application will read a lower polling rate. I understand what it means. The program works fine. If you are not moving your mouse, "if the change state is still 0" then the application simply doenst update. A new line is added for every poll while the mouse is moving, and nothing changes while the sensor is not reading movement. Whatever setting i use, my polling rate stays the same. If it is set to 1000hz, it fluxuates from 998 to 1002 or so, if i set 250hz, it sits around 248-252. Your mouse seems to be broken as hell with those readings, and with the massive fluxuations in polling rate There are no fluctuations. The device is overpolled on purpose. The application is reading normal. All polls take place around 1000, 500, or 250. This is normal for all overpolled devices. Newer mice update faster than mine is all this means. Overpolling is not dangerous or harmful to accuracy in any way. Remember you are just checking to see if the device has changed anything. EDIT: And some 333's but Ill mention that later. UPDATE: Here is another picture, this is me going fairly psychotic with the mouse. Compare with the poster that was below me earlier. + Show Spoiler +Notice that the values are all way way lower. This is because way less change happened between polled movements, and I was really whipping my mouse around. Also notice that there were no skipped values. Also the perceived polling rate was a constant 1000 or 500. This is because even though the MX518 is really old mouse, it updates faster than 250 times a second. It updates faster than 500 times a second in fact. But users do not understand how important this is. Because users are polling there mouse well below the update value of the mouse, prediction plays a bigger role in there mousing practices than it should. And to emphasize again. Polling is done by the motherboard. Not the mouse. Saying my mouse is broken, and pointing to polling rate, makes no sense. If polling is done on the motherboard always, why do i have a hardware switch on my mouse to adjust it? You shouldnt be getting those results on mouse movement recorder either way with perfect tracking
I think I might just have to make a blog post about this. Polling rate/prediction interplay is so poorly understood by the community at large.
Adjusting the master update rate of the device doesnt change anything on the motherboards side. If you had a 50k polling rate button on your mouse it would only show what the motherboard was taking polls at, which is determined by what drivers were installed.
And I already explained why my values are perfectly normal so try to go back and check up on that. If the values were not shifting between 1k and 500 THEN I would be in trouble. The MX 518 does not create data a full 1,000 times a second, when the null value is found (Null does not mean Zero, they are two different things), the value is re-polled by the motherboard on the next pass, that creates a net 500 polling rate. If it takes 3 times, 333, and 4 times 250. Which ones pop up more is determined by speed of the mouse, and how the update rate of the mouse divides into the polling rate.
That application will not draw lines when the value is ZERO ( this is NOT the same as NULL). ZERO is the value the mouse provides the motherboard when a change has not occured.
This is why PS/2 peripherals will always have an edge. The motherboard doesn't poll those devices. PS/2 technology works on hardware interrupts.
EDIT: Keyboards work this way as well. However ALL USB keyboards only create data 200 times a second. That is why certain keyboards like the thermaltake mechanical i believe, one of the keyboards that says it supports 1k polling rate, is bullshit.
That being said I have one non-mouse device that IS polled at 1k, and that is my beatmania controller. Beatmania is impossible to play with only 125 hz polling rate. And the device is so simply constructed (11 outputs) that it can be polled however many times you want to.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
On October 15 2011 15:37 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 15:27 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:52 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:48 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link. Also try to understand what "polling rate" means. The motherboard doesn't try to rip the bits out of the mouse, thats not how it works. Polling rate is how often the motherboard checks the device for input. If the change state is still 0, it moves on. Thats why that application will read a lower polling rate. I understand what it means. The program works fine. If you are not moving your mouse, "if the change state is still 0" then the application simply doenst update. A new line is added for every poll while the mouse is moving, and nothing changes while the sensor is not reading movement. Whatever setting i use, my polling rate stays the same. If it is set to 1000hz, it fluxuates from 998 to 1002 or so, if i set 250hz, it sits around 248-252. Your mouse seems to be broken as hell with those readings, and with the massive fluxuations in polling rate There are no fluctuations. The device is overpolled on purpose. The application is reading normal. All polls take place around 1000, 500, or 250. This is normal for all overpolled devices. Newer mice update faster than mine is all this means. Overpolling is not dangerous or harmful to accuracy in any way. Remember you are just checking to see if the device has changed anything. EDIT: And some 333's but Ill mention that later. UPDATE: Here is another picture, this is me going fairly psychotic with the mouse. Compare with the poster that was below me earlier. + Show Spoiler +Notice that the values are all way way lower. This is because way less change happened between polled movements, and I was really whipping my mouse around. Also notice that there were no skipped values. Also the perceived polling rate was a constant 1000 or 500. This is because even though the MX518 is really old mouse, it updates faster than 250 times a second. It updates faster than 500 times a second in fact. But users do not understand how important this is. Because users are polling there mouse well below the update value of the mouse, prediction plays a bigger role in there mousing practices than it should. And to emphasize again. Polling is done by the motherboard. Not the mouse. Saying my mouse is broken, and pointing to polling rate, makes no sense. If polling is done on the motherboard always, why do i have a hardware switch on my mouse to adjust it? You shouldnt be getting those results on mouse movement recorder either way with perfect tracking I think I might just have to make a blog post about this. Polling rate/prediction interplay is so poorly understood by the community at large. Adjusting the master update rate of the device doesnt change anything on the motherboards side. If you had a 50k polling rate button on your mouse it would only show what the motherboard was taking polls at, which is determined by what drivers were installed. And I already explained why my values are perfectly normal so try to go back and check up on that. If the values were not shifting between 1k and 500 THEN I would be in trouble. The MX 518 does not create data a full 1,000 times a second, when the null value is found (Null does not mean Zero, they are two different things), the value is re-polled by the motherboard on the next pass, that creates a net 500 polling rate. If it takes 3 times, 333, and 4 times 250. Which ones pop up more is determined by speed of the mouse, and how the update rate of the mouse divides into the polling rate. That application will not draw lines when the value is ZERO ( this is NOT the same as NULL). ZERO is the value the mouse provides the motherboard when a change has not occured.This is why PS/2 peripherals will always have an edge. The motherboard doesn't poll those devices. PS/2 technology works on hardware interrupts. EDIT: Keyboards work this way as well. However ALL USB keyboards only create data 200 times a second. That is why certain keyboards like the thermaltake mechanical i believe, one of the keyboards that says it supports 1k polling rate, is bullshit. That being said I have one non-mouse device that IS polled at 1k, and that is my beatmania controller. Beatmania is impossible to play with only 125 hz polling rate. And the device is so simply constructed (11 outputs) that it can be polled however many times you want to.
I knew ps/2 keyboards didnt have the input lag from USB polling or the 3nkr issues, but without polling on mice etc, too, what is the justification for using USB? ps/2 seems superior in every way aside from the "hot plug-in" or whatever that really doesnt matter for anything
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On October 15 2011 16:27 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 15:37 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 15:27 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:52 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:48 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:39 Medrea wrote:On October 15 2011 14:36 Cyro wrote:On October 15 2011 14:26 Medrea wrote:On October 14 2011 21:12 Srdjan2311 wrote:Prediction has nothing to do with your mouse being broken. You overclocked the polling rate to 1000hz and mx518 is stable only up to 250hz. So run your hidusbf again and set it to 250 if you want your mouse to survive without permanent damage. Screenshot from my mx518 4 years old + Show Spoiler +And prediction isn't found in every single mouse, even the old deathadder 3g has toggleable prediction, even older intelli series and wmo have no prediction and so on, not that it matters in starcraft. Prediction is found on every mouse. You cannot have a mouse, at all really, without prediction. Without prediction. Even if you were to draw a straight line in real life. The line would be all over the place. http://www.overclock.net/mice/771171-mouse-has-no-accel-correction-etc-7.htmlPicture for example. This is what a mouse with zero prediction produces when made to draw a straight line. And I have been polling my mouse at 500 and 1k for close to 8 years now. Even the newer 518's benefit from it. The skip only means that the mouse was unable to provide an answer to the poll I believe. You are not polling at 1k... your polling rate is unstable and jumping all over the place, from 240hz to 1.1k, with alternating negative and positive acceleration because of it... I cant draw ANYTHING NEAR that picture, not even close... at 800dpi, moving 1/800'th of an inch up or down interrupts the straight line, and it is impossible to not accidently move that much... il attach a picture in a sec Thats because you have mouse prediction. As I said EVERY mouse has prediction. If a manufacturer is telling you there mouse has no prediction they are lying. Also check how the application works, if it receives no input it calculates the polling rate over the time. Also read the link. Also try to understand what "polling rate" means. The motherboard doesn't try to rip the bits out of the mouse, thats not how it works. Polling rate is how often the motherboard checks the device for input. If the change state is still 0, it moves on. Thats why that application will read a lower polling rate. I understand what it means. The program works fine. If you are not moving your mouse, "if the change state is still 0" then the application simply doenst update. A new line is added for every poll while the mouse is moving, and nothing changes while the sensor is not reading movement. Whatever setting i use, my polling rate stays the same. If it is set to 1000hz, it fluxuates from 998 to 1002 or so, if i set 250hz, it sits around 248-252. Your mouse seems to be broken as hell with those readings, and with the massive fluxuations in polling rate There are no fluctuations. The device is overpolled on purpose. The application is reading normal. All polls take place around 1000, 500, or 250. This is normal for all overpolled devices. Newer mice update faster than mine is all this means. Overpolling is not dangerous or harmful to accuracy in any way. Remember you are just checking to see if the device has changed anything. EDIT: And some 333's but Ill mention that later. UPDATE: Here is another picture, this is me going fairly psychotic with the mouse. Compare with the poster that was below me earlier. + Show Spoiler +Notice that the values are all way way lower. This is because way less change happened between polled movements, and I was really whipping my mouse around. Also notice that there were no skipped values. Also the perceived polling rate was a constant 1000 or 500. This is because even though the MX518 is really old mouse, it updates faster than 250 times a second. It updates faster than 500 times a second in fact. But users do not understand how important this is. Because users are polling there mouse well below the update value of the mouse, prediction plays a bigger role in there mousing practices than it should. And to emphasize again. Polling is done by the motherboard. Not the mouse. Saying my mouse is broken, and pointing to polling rate, makes no sense. If polling is done on the motherboard always, why do i have a hardware switch on my mouse to adjust it? You shouldnt be getting those results on mouse movement recorder either way with perfect tracking I think I might just have to make a blog post about this. Polling rate/prediction interplay is so poorly understood by the community at large. Adjusting the master update rate of the device doesnt change anything on the motherboards side. If you had a 50k polling rate button on your mouse it would only show what the motherboard was taking polls at, which is determined by what drivers were installed. And I already explained why my values are perfectly normal so try to go back and check up on that. If the values were not shifting between 1k and 500 THEN I would be in trouble. The MX 518 does not create data a full 1,000 times a second, when the null value is found (Null does not mean Zero, they are two different things), the value is re-polled by the motherboard on the next pass, that creates a net 500 polling rate. If it takes 3 times, 333, and 4 times 250. Which ones pop up more is determined by speed of the mouse, and how the update rate of the mouse divides into the polling rate. That application will not draw lines when the value is ZERO ( this is NOT the same as NULL). ZERO is the value the mouse provides the motherboard when a change has not occured.This is why PS/2 peripherals will always have an edge. The motherboard doesn't poll those devices. PS/2 technology works on hardware interrupts. EDIT: Keyboards work this way as well. However ALL USB keyboards only create data 200 times a second. That is why certain keyboards like the thermaltake mechanical i believe, one of the keyboards that says it supports 1k polling rate, is bullshit. That being said I have one non-mouse device that IS polled at 1k, and that is my beatmania controller. Beatmania is impossible to play with only 125 hz polling rate. And the device is so simply constructed (11 outputs) that it can be polled however many times you want to. I knew ps/2 keyboards didnt have the input lag from USB polling or the 3nkr issues, but without polling on mice etc, too, what is the justification for using USB? ps/2 seems superior in every way aside from the "hot plug-in" or whatever that really doesnt matter for anything
I think you got this now, but just to make sure. I don't have accel of any kind (pos or neg) from overpolling the device, but I am pretty sure that wasn't entirely what you meant.
Why do we use USB at all? More power to the product (backlights, USB hubs, any other onboard device and so forth), and more inputs. PS/2 keyboards will never recognize more than the standard amount of keys, so media keys, side buttons, volume knobs etc, these are never recognized.
Thats it. For absolute fidelity, you will definitly see some pro players use PS/2 keyboard. They are the fastest. Das Keyboard purists insist upon it in fact.
With good reason too, its a direct line into the hardware.
EDIT: For mice its a little bit more up in the air. But for keyboards, unless you have an addiction to those extra keys, PS/2 will always be superior in the e-sports mentality.
UPDATE: PS/2 yields no benefits for mice as long as the mouse is polled properly. Polled properly means that the motherboard is checking on the mouse as fast as the mouse is taking measurements. So for a 666 hz mouse. 500 is underpolling the mouse, 1k is proper polling. However for absolute fidelity it still will not beat PS/2 (though it will come damn close). But the industry for mice is very driver driven. I suggest USB slot for mice overall.
ADDENDUM: For modern day motherboards, go 1k polling rate or bust. Older motherboards will freeze when forced to 1k. For those 500hz should be fine.
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interesting read, thx for the info Medrea. If i'm understanding correctly what the zowie guy said is basically they took the sensor from ikari optical which has prediction(in the commonly known meaning) and made the polling rate 1000hz and now the mouse has less prediction(in the other meaning). What happens then with the deathadder 3g (a mouse with no prediction in the commonly known meaning) which is stable at 1000hz unlike the mx518. Even less prediction? Or is the mouse being able to respond to every poll from the motherboard somehow a bad thing? I'm not clear on this. And what reason do you have to assert that your results in the mouse movement recorder are a consequence of prediction if the mentioned deathadder even with the prediction firmware passes the test and mx518 does not. Could you run the latest mmr 1.7(link) with these parameters:
MouseMovementRecorder.exe -alwayscatchup -showcatchupdelay
It will show the actual delay between the mouse movement and the pointer movement (up to a max of 500 microseconds before it gives up). Im curious what are your results at 1000hz mx518.
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On October 15 2011 23:40 Srdjan2311 wrote:
What happens then with the deathadder 3g (a mouse with no prediction in the commonly known meaning) which is stable at 1000hz unlike the mx518. Even less prediction?
Ok I need to make something clear. There is no instability. I am overpolling the device. The results are EXACTLY as expected. Here is how the breakdown works. The MX518 in my hand I estimate updates around 800 times a second (actually a little higher or lower than that but for example purposes this will do), varying on a bunch of different factors.
The first poll reads nothing. .200ms later the mouse updates.
-poll reads the mouse. .400 ms later the mouse updates.
-poll reads the mouse. .600 ms later the mouse updates.
-poll reads the mouse. .800 ms later the mouse updates.
-poll reads the mouse. Hard to say since it is the exact same time in this example, but lets say the mouse has not produced a value yet. If it doesn't here it will definitly will on the next poll.
The polling rate will be measured by that application as 500/1000/1000/1000/500. It is normal and perfectly stable.
It is easy to figure out what to expect given those flags you gave me.
-alwayscatchup -showcatchupdelay
+ Show Spoiler +
Yes as expected. Consistent mu's of 500 the whole way, because the device is overpolled not overpolled, it is because of windows 7 5/11. Also a good screenshot for reading the phenomenon above.
Notice how the pattern is always 2 to sometimes 4 1k's and then a 500. I tried my best to whip the mouse around as much as I could. The pattern is VERY stable. The imperfections you see are a combination of human error, and sometimes imprecision. In the screenshot above, I was probably making a turn.
EDIT: After rereading through I found that some people could be confused by the green blocks. The green blocks means the mouse on screen moved less than the mouse told the operating system.
This is NOT negative acceleration. This is lower total velocity. Quite simply, I lowered my sensitivity in windows from 6/11 to 5/11. I don't have to worry about pixel skipping, afaik win7 fixed that problem.
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Ok you convinced me i must say it does have a stable delay i was wrong about that. But by stable i meant stable 1000 updates per seconds with no nulls like in the case of the deathadder 3g thats why i mentioned it i'm interested would the deathadder have even less prediction at 1000hz because of that?. Oh and could you just add -maxcatchupdelay 2000 in addition to previous switches just in case you are always hitting the default cap of 500 microseconds. Here are my results + Show Spoiler +
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I got a constant 2000 mu's running with those 3 flags and my polling rate numbers were all over the place quite a bit, but rarely above 500.
I did however get a lot more red blocks (increased flat velocity) than the last test where I got none at all really, which leads me to believe that this test may not be appropriate for the MX518. It is afterall a really old mouse.
And yes every mouse that has over-prediction will have this experience reduced at high polling rates. under predicted mice will also wobble less. Perfect predicted mice will be perfect, but there is no such thing as perfect prediction unless the mouse was made for like a perfect diamond mouse mat or something. Or it can read the future, or your mind.
EDIT: hmm, I decided to set my windows to 6/11. And i ran the previous two tests again. Neither red blocks or green showed up in either test (expected, i would have been surprised otherwise). In both tests I ran with no mu values at all.
hmmmm.
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I have various PCs and my best mice is the mx518 followed by the ikari laser. Razer products come last, at least considering my user experience
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I might need to read the documentation or check the source code to get a precise idea on what the mu value means.
EDIT: I know when in doubt 6/11 but I just want to make sure about what the mu value actually means.
UPDATE: Alright here is the deal. 5/11 adds a flat decreased in velocity to the mouse where 6/11 is raw input.I can move the mouse, and the mouse signals the motion value, but the cursor will not move to the next pixel because the movement is not enough to move to the next pixel with that decreased sensitivity, even though it is enough at 6/11.
Because a cursor change is not registered until the next movement where the remainder pushes the cursor to the next pixel, this is registered as a net 500 mu (1000/2).
That being said. When it comes to other people, I always recommend 6/11 sensitivity as it makes debugging way eaisier. To demonstrate this. I will update with another picture.
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yeah it does. It indeed means your mouse input is stable . I learned quite a few new things from you thanks.
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On October 16 2011 08:19 Srdjan2311 wrote:yeah it does. It indeed means your mouse input is stable
Heh. Again it is always stable Oh i get what you meant, yeah. Adjusting sensitivity in windows does not have the affect that many people think it does.
When determining if a user is having a problem, I always have them set windows to 6/11. Never go higher than 6/11 as it can introduce skipping. Lower is just not "true 1:1"
That 1k 1k 1k .5K behavior also scares a lot of people. But it is no worry.
EDIT: honestly the most important thing is that enhanced pointer precision is OFF. Even in games. Everything outside of that we can live with.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
On October 16 2011 06:06 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 23:40 Srdjan2311 wrote:
What happens then with the deathadder 3g (a mouse with no prediction in the commonly known meaning) which is stable at 1000hz unlike the mx518. Even less prediction? Ok I need to make something clear. There is no instability. I am overpolling the device. The results are EXACTLY as expected. Here is how the breakdown works. The MX518 in my hand I estimate updates around 800 times a second (actually a little higher or lower than that but for example purposes this will do), varying on a bunch of different factors. The first poll reads nothing. .200ms later the mouse updates. -poll reads the mouse. .400 ms later the mouse updates. -poll reads the mouse. .600 ms later the mouse updates. -poll reads the mouse. .800 ms later the mouse updates. -poll reads the mouse. Hard to say since it is the exact same time in this example, but lets say the mouse has not produced a value yet. If it doesn't here it will definitly will on the next poll. The polling rate will be measured by that application as 500/1000/1000/1000/500. It is normal and perfectly stable. It is easy to figure out what to expect given those flags you gave me. -alwayscatchup -showcatchupdelay + Show Spoiler +Yes as expected. Consistent mu's of 500 the whole way, because the device is overpolled not overpolled, it is because of windows 7 5/11. Also a good screenshot for reading the phenomenon above. Notice how the pattern is always 2 to sometimes 4 1k's and then a 500. I tried my best to whip the mouse around as much as I could. The pattern is VERY stable. The imperfections you see are a combination of human error, and sometimes imprecision. In the screenshot above, I was probably making a turn. EDIT: After rereading through I found that some people could be confused by the green blocks. The green blocks means the mouse on screen moved less than the mouse told the operating system. This is NOT negative acceleration. This is lower total velocity. Quite simply, I lowered my sensitivity in windows from 6/11 to 5/11. I don't have to worry about pixel skipping, afaik win7 fixed that problem.
Its an unfixable problem.
If you are running anything that doesnt directly multiply into 1.0, you get pixel skipping.
6/11 is 1.0 sensitivity, 4/11 is 0.5
There are a few other settings you can use to change sensitivity without inconsistent pixel skipping, 5/11 is not one of them.
Anything above 6/11 will multiply your mouse input, making you unable to select certain pixels, but if the sens multiplies into 1 you wont skip inconsistently.
The settings you can use for this are 1/11, 2/11, 3/11, 4/11, 6/11, 8/11 and 10/11.
The others are inconsistent
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EPT![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/Skip.png)
![[image loading]](http://www4.slikomat.com/11/1014/dkc-mx518.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/Stable.png)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/skipless.png)
![[image loading]](http://www4.slikomat.com/11/1015/ga-spad.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/skipless%206_11.png)
