EPTsorry if the earlier post about that hardware forum was directed at me but i really have no idea what to ask
Mouse Movement Recorder - Page 2
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
sorry if the earlier post about that hardware forum was directed at me but i really have no idea what to ask | ||
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fencer
122 Posts
A technical thread about the Spawn: http://www.overclock.net/mice/1105557-cm-storm-spawn-review-comparisons-abyssus.html | ||
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Srdjan2311
Serbia20 Posts
here | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 11 2011 23:39 Srdjan2311 wrote: Yes getting a better mouse will fix it you can find relevant mouse information here Ok, now im confused, what is the problem? the spawns max speed is listed as 60ips, but my current mouse is 65, is the issue seperate from that? That review said a lot of bad stuff about the spawns 800dpi, but 1800 is way too fast, i was even considering going below 800 if i got rid of the massive negative acceleration. Is the 800dpi on the storm unsalvagable without jitter/prediction/inconsistency? I looked more into the abyssus, its specs say 60-120ips and it seems to work pretty well at 450dpi, and the 1800 can be halved using the razer driver or 4/11 windows if need be, not ideal but it should still work without skipping, right? am i missing anything | ||
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Srdjan2311
Serbia20 Posts
your steelseries wow mouse has perfect control up to 1.67 m/s cm spawn -||- 1.7 m/s abyssus -||- 3.92 m/s (but older releases have the jitter issue) so between spawn and abyssus where is the confusion. But imho both are no match for the old deathadder or mx518. | ||
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MaliciousOne
United States47 Posts
On October 12 2011 02:41 Cyro wrote: Ok, now im confused, what is the problem? the spawns max speed is listed as 60ips, but my current mouse is 65, is the issue seperate from that? That review said a lot of bad stuff about the spawns 800dpi, but 1800 is way too fast, i was even considering going below 800 if i got rid of the massive negative acceleration. Is the 800dpi on the storm unsalvagable without jitter/prediction/inconsistency? I looked more into the abyssus, its specs say 60-120ips and it seems to work pretty well at 450dpi, and the 1800 can be halved using the razer driver or 4/11 windows if need be, not ideal but it should still work without skipping, right? am i missing anything The review saying 1800 DPI is too much is nonsense. You can independently change DPI and sensitivity. Think of it this way: DPI is how precise your mouse can be, and sensitivity is how that translates to how much your mouse actually moves. Having a high DPI simply means that your mouse has the ability to be more sensitive, and is more precise at reading the surface its on. Any "gaming" mouse will come with its own program to control sensitivity. IMO, your DPI should always be set to max and then you should decrease the sensitivity within that program until you are comfortable. The only times a high DPI will get you into trouble is if the surface under your mouse is irregular (i.e. a good number of crappy cheap mousepads). Everyone will like the sensitivity and DPI at different settings, so alot is left up to personal preference, but you should get the mouse that allows you to move your cursor as fast as you can without losing your own accuracy. Personally, I feel like I can do this with my Deathadder (3500dpi at max sensitivity in the razer program, 6/11 in windows, 53% in SC2), but it will differ from person to person. Windows sensitivity should be set to 6/11 to avoid windows messing with how your mouse responds. Too high and it will skip pixels. SC2 sensitivity should also be set to some odd number (like 53 or something) to avoid similar behavior. I'm not sure how exactly SC2 does it, so I can't elaborate further. EDIT: IPS (inches per second) just means how fast you can move your mouse before the sensor can't track it. Maybe you can move your wrist faster than a full 5 feet per second... but I've never run into an issue with this. Maybe others have. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:22 Srdjan2311 wrote: I said getting a better mouse not getting a cm spawn. your steelseries wow mouse has perfect control up to 1.67 m/s cm spawn -||- 1.7 m/s abyssus -||- 3.92 m/s (but older releases have the jitter issue) so between spawn and abyssus where is the confusion. But imho both are no match for the old deathadder or mx518. Thanks. I heard only good things about the spawn before and wasnt sure of any stats | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:54 MaliciousOne wrote: The review saying 1800 DPI is too much is nonsense. You can independently change DPI and sensitivity. Think of it this way: DPI is how precise your mouse can be, and sensitivity is how that translates to how much your mouse actually moves. Having a high DPI simply means that your mouse has the ability to be more sensitive, and is more precise at reading the surface its on. Any "gaming" mouse will come with its own program to control sensitivity. IMO, your DPI should always be set to max and then you should decrease the sensitivity within that program until you are comfortable. The only times a high DPI will get you into trouble is if the surface under your mouse is irregular (i.e. a good number of crappy cheap mousepads). Everyone will like the sensitivity and DPI at different settings, so alot is left up to personal preference, but you should get the mouse that allows you to move your cursor as fast as you can without losing your own accuracy. Personally, I feel like I can do this with my Deathadder (3500dpi at max sensitivity in the razer program, 6/11 in windows, 53% in SC2), but it will differ from person to person. Windows sensitivity should be set to 6/11 to avoid windows messing with how your mouse responds. Too high and it will skip pixels. SC2 sensitivity should also be set to some odd number (like 53 or something) to avoid similar behavior. I'm not sure how exactly SC2 does it, so I can't elaborate further. EDIT: IPS (inches per second) just means how fast you can move your mouse before the sensor can't track it. Maybe you can move your wrist faster than a full 5 feet per second... but I've never run into an issue with this. Maybe others have. You misunderstand, the review doenst say 1800dpi is too much, i do. I play starcraft 2 at 1920x1080, 51% sens, 6/11 with accel disabled at 800dpi. I dropped down to 800 over a week or so from 3200 because i could when i got my steelseries qxc+ (45cmx40cm) and it helped me so much with accuracy, micro and pretty much everything. Decreasing sensitivity instead of DPI to slow your mouse down will create pixel skipping, just as having windows above or below 6/11 will. 75% sensitivity in a razer driver will skip over every third pixel, making it impossible to select, whereas lowering DPI from 1000 to 750 will slow down the mouse on average by the same amount without any skipping. That is why people suggest raising/lowering DPI instead of sens The IPS issue was described in my OP, my mouse tracks perfectly at the moment, but when i make very quick movements i get massive amounts of negative acceleration from the mouse failing to track properly, i didnt think i was moving THAT fast but it is plausible. Using 1.6 meters per second as an example, if we scale down, that is 16cm in 0.1 seconds, it seems very high, but either way im hitting it during all tests and several games, so getting a mouse with higher speed supported would fix my negative acceleration during (and only during) fast movement issue. The reason i said 4/11 windows sensitivity is to avoid pixel skipping. 6/11 reads the mouse at a 1:1 ratio with dpi, 5/11 for example is 0.8 or something, skipping over some pixels because it cant scale directly into 1. at 4/11 sensitivity, windows skips over exactly every second pixel in a consistent fashion, effectively halving your DPI, still allowing you to select every pixel on the screen. Whereas 5/11 might move the mouse 1010110101011, skipping inconsistently, 4/11 will move 101010101010 (much more consistent) My last explanation there is probably bad, but basically 4/11 doesnt skip inconsistently like other non-6/11 settings do. Thanks for the post, but i dont think you know enough to help me (not that i do either, or i wouldnt have made the topic in the first place) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 03:58 Cyro wrote: Thanks. I heard only good things about the spawn before and wasnt sure of any stats Older releases? would i be at risk of getting one now, or were they all recalled etc? | ||
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Srdjan2311
Serbia20 Posts
http://ariekanarie.nl/archives/282/mouse-jitter-on-cloth-pads | ||
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MaliciousOne
United States47 Posts
My apologies, that post really helped me out as well. I suppose I never thought about the skipping inherent in the sensitivity controls either. Learn something new everyday! | ||
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Srdjan2311
Serbia20 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 04:26 Srdjan2311 wrote: its a well-known fact that the abyssus is inconsistent. there's no sure way to tell if you'll get one that doesnt jitter. generally speaking the lol edition seems to be less likely to have the jitter issues. There is also the lod issue where some have high lod and others low. http://ariekanarie.nl/archives/282/mouse-jitter-on-cloth-pads Are you serious? That is a massive problem on a mouse that is about $55 here plus delivery... Should i just buy one and return until i get one that works...? lod isnt a deal breaker i guess, id like low but i dont play FPS at a high level anymore | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 05:10 Srdjan2311 wrote: @MaliciousOne there are games where what you said is true (that use the raw input model for interpreting mouse data). Windows sensitivity and settings matter and should always be at 6th notch if the game is using WM_MOUSEMOVE (or GetCursorPos). Sadly this is the case with starcraft. Starcraft 2 has its own sensitivity slider which is seperate from windows, 51-54% is the same as 6/11 - the game completely ignores your windows sensitivity though unless you enable a new checkbox avalible in 1.4 to read mouse data from windows | ||
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JayDee_
548 Posts
On October 11 2011 03:20 Boblhead wrote: Where is your proof? Please I would like to know why you think "Razer" products are better?. The keyboards suck/ mice are terrible and the only decent things they make are the carrying bags for your keyboard/mouse etc etc. I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing. I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them. It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers. Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 05:33 Cyro wrote: Are you serious? That is a massive problem on a mouse that is about $55 here plus delivery... Should i just buy one and return until i get one that works...? lod isnt a deal breaker i guess, id like low but i dont play FPS at a high level anymore quoting myself to bump | ||
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Srdjan2311
Serbia20 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 22:01 Srdjan2311 wrote: like you said: since you don't play games where mouse consistency matters i would say yes go for the abyssus if you like his shape best. If you want a mouse that will never fail you go for the mx518, old deathadder 3g, g1, intelli 1.1, inteeli 3.0 or wmo. Its your choice. For me personally, even if the the abyssus had a great sensor like deathadder 3g i still wouldn't buy it - the mouse is too small, smaller than g1 even. I said that lift off distance wasnt a deal breaker... consistency is 100% mandatory, i cant even imagine trying to individually blink stalkers at 150+apm with a mouse that jitters off to one side for no reason, nor even casually playing a fps. cant find the old deathadder anywhere, the intellimouse series has low max speed (why i made the thread in the first place) etc | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On October 12 2011 06:48 JayDee_ wrote: I haven't done a full scientific evaluation. However, I have used multiple steelseries mice (kinzu, xai, etc), all of which displayed the negative qualities I talked about. The company just doesn't know what they are doing. I come from a quake background, where the quality of the mouse you use is of utmost importance. Steeleseries mice are crap for fps. There is one pro quake player who uses an SS mouse, but it is only because he is sponsored by them. It is generally agreed that the DeathAdder, new Abysuss', WMO (microsoft wheel mouse optical), IMO , and the MX518 are mice that track to near perfection. Out of those mice, the Abyssus would be a good choice for an RTS gamer because of its light weight, small frame, and onboard drivers. Razer>SS in terms of mice because Razer uses good consistent sensors with quality drivers, while SS does not. If i were to just go and buy an abyssus on amazon.co.uk etc, what are the chances of getting one that doenst jitter horribly? | ||
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MaliciousOne
United States47 Posts
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