EPTThe Ultimate Mouse Thread - Page 4
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BnK
United States538 Posts
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Sebby Lebby
68 Posts
My experience with mice has been more like this, and others I've talked to seem to agree, but if not, your mileage may vary, w/e: -dpi doesn't matter for rts. pretty much everything gives you 800 and even some ppl with 400 are fine, it's a driver issue whether 400 works for you or not... -you can be amazing even with mechanical ball, but a low quality sensor (i.e. worse than logitech's standard) makes it tough/impossible to play well. think GE mice. ugh. -conversely (with above), maybe _maybe_ the higher quality stuff helps a bit, i.e. mx300's sensor as opposied to mini optical. but mini optical is great right... havent tried lazer mouse but most importantly, i don't think you should go by how the mouse feels when you touch it, or use it for a game. to me, the biggest difference in mice (excluding ones that just are unusuable) is whether you can play 10 hours with it or not. some of them will give you injuries, sorenesses, and others won't. you really won't see whether you want to take that weight out of your mouse until you put it to the test. the weight might actually be preventing injuries. who knows. this is "form factor" and it's really #1. boxer was better at sc1 than most of us will ever be with a simple ball mouse. and wasnt somebody using a mini ball and #1 for some time too? don't flatter yourself and think you need more precision than them... but to touch on one last issue, is the issue of unusableness. i've picked up mice at other people's houses and found basic micro tricks undoable on their setup. sometimes its their mouse, or their computer is too slow, or some combination. or their mouse settings (acceleration/etc.) are just horrible. i call this factor usability... ideal drivers can really go a long way towards making or breaking this. i don't think the typical drivers like microsoft's or logitechs are very optimal for this, but they are okay. if the newer manufacturers give you more options, this could be a big difference. i would like to see some third party software start giving people better ways to customize the movement factor(s) of their mouse, i.e. the way it does or doesn't accelerate, stop, etc. it's really hard to control all of these things sometimes on a logitech or microsoft driver. even if you think acceleration is off, on some operating systems it isn't. and some acceleration might be good past a certain threshhold... etc. but we don't get to play with this normally. on those other gaming mice maybe you can. #1 form factor, must test yourself. if i tell you the weight and design of a mouse and let you touch it you still really have no idea whether this mouse helps you or is horrible. #2 drivers, would like to see 3rd party ones in the future isnted of relying on mice manufacturers :/ | ||
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RogueStatus
266 Posts
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k20
United States342 Posts
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Greyhawk
Australia110 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On December 27 2010 06:48 Greyhawk wrote: If i may ask here, What is the difference between an Optical mouse and a Laser mouse? laser mice vary in how they operate on some levels optical tends to all be the same for the most part. The difference is mostly the max dpi and ability to track on surfaces. Optical mice used to be clearly better if you want consistency Laser mice now can operate on a very similar level on consistency while keeping the high dpi Optical tend to favor thick, textured, cloth mats laser tends to like smoother hard mats although surface types can cause problems with older mice. laser tends to work better on a variability of surfaces, optical tends to be more picky. Optical is still better in consistency but only slightly and it has to be on the right surface sense most people don't test extensively each mouse with a bunch of mousepads i'd say a good laser mouse can be more consistently better then just your avg optical. laser mice aren't at their peak yet i'd expecting green laser mice to hit the market in the next 2 years over the cheaper red, in short optical is a dead end in gaming mice imo laser will keep on changing esp with more bandwidth opening up. I use a G9x(had a g9 before that 2? 3 years now? i just like the short not so tall mouse for my grip) on a hard glasstype mousepad at a very high dpi(one which most people would considered unusable but my finger tip only style fits to very fine movements very minimal effort. Really i'd get importance on the feel of the mouse in your hand then check if the mouse is good, and then make sure you have a suitable surface. | ||
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gulati
United States2241 Posts
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Greyhawk
Australia110 Posts
On December 27 2010 17:02 semantics wrote: laser mice vary in how they operate on some levels optical tends to all be the same for the most part. The difference is mostly the max dpi and ability to track on surfaces. Optical mice used to be clearly better if you want consistency Laser mice now can operate on a very similar level on consistency while keeping the high dpi Optical tend to favor thick, textured, cloth mats laser tends to like smoother hard mats although surface types can cause problems with older mice. laser tends to work better on a variability of surfaces, optical tends to be more picky. Optical is still better in consistency but only slightly and it has to be on the right surface sense most people don't test extensively each mouse with a bunch of mousepads i'd say a good laser mouse can be more consistently better then just your avg optical. laser mice aren't at their peak yet i'd expecting green laser mice to hit the market in the next 2 years over the cheaper red, in short optical is a dead end in gaming mice imo laser will keep on changing esp with more bandwidth opening up. I use a G9x(had a g9 before that 2? 3 years now? i just like the short not so tall mouse for my grip) on a hard glasstype mousepad at a very high dpi(one which most people would considered unusable but my finger tip only style fits to very fine movements very minimal effort. Really i'd get importance on the feel of the mouse in your hand then check if the mouse is good, and then make sure you have a suitable surface. Thanks, semantics, I just ordered a Steelseries Ikari Laser and am going to get either the Steelseries 4HD or QcK surface i'm not entirely sure yet. | ||
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vek
Australia936 Posts
On December 27 2010 21:22 Greyhawk wrote: Thanks, semantics, I just ordered a Steelseries Ikari Laser and am going to get either the Steelseries 4HD or QcK surface i'm not entirely sure yet. I'll be interested to hear what it's like because I've never used a mouse that uses an Ovation sensor before. I've only used PTE and Avago. It's on my list of things to do but I'm still interested to hear what other people think of it. | ||
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Greyhawk
Australia110 Posts
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vek
Australia936 Posts
On December 27 2010 21:39 Greyhawk wrote: To be honest, when i get the ikari laser, it'll be my very first 'gaming' mouse so i won't exactly have any valid feedback to provide you apart from how comfy it is to use.. but even that won't be really beneficial >< Ah right.. I was mostly after things like how it handles Z-Axis/lift off, how it handles on soft surfaces and if it gets any jitter or random jumping. There is an issue plaguing PTE based mice where if you lift them up and put them down on the same spot the mouse pointer jumps a large distance diagonally. This has caused (rightly so) a lot of hate for laser based mice. As a byproduct of the annoying lift off problem if you use a PTE mouse on a soft surface you get mouse movement when you click. The slight movement that occurs when you click the mouse button and the mouse "digs" into the soft pad causes the sensor to detect it as movement when it shouldn't so the cursor moves slightly. I don't claim to know the maths behind why this happens or why Phillips decided to include the Z-Axis values when calculating X and Y. I'm sure some engineer had a good reason for doing it. As you can guess this is a pain in the ass in Starcraft and just using the computer in general. All of the sudden a single click becomes a click-drag and you are swearing up a storm. Jitter is just the cursor jiggling back and forth between a few pixels when the mouse is stationary. I don't think anyone can explain why this would ever happen but it does with PTE. You can't produce it on demand, it just seems to happen randomly. Finally jumping is just random movement that doesn't make sense. You might be sliding the mouse left and all of a sudden it whips up to the top of the screen. This happens to me with PTE and Avago and it's the only problem I have with Avago sensors. | ||
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Barca
United States418 Posts
I now play as good as Effort did. Thanks, Logitech! | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
On December 26 2010 12:21 BnK wrote: ah I saw no G1 in list *RAGE* Yeah I stocked on six of them because I got them at 50% off. Really love it, light and smooth. | ||
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
I like my deathadder because of it's shape and comfort, but my next mouse will be the good ole me3.0. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On December 28 2010 01:00 icemanzdoinwork wrote: Dpi is very missleading in competitive fps games. I have a deathadder and was using the max 3500 dpi. I took it down to 900 and I have a lot better control. I did this after playing with some players from Korean sudden attack who played with pro SA players. They told me the mouse of choice for most pro SA players is the me3.0 which is 400 dpi only or the mx518. Mainly rifles use the 518. When I looked into pro cs players it's basically the same 400-900 dpi and the same mice head the top. I like my deathadder because of it's shape and comfort, but my next mouse will be the good ole me3.0. i hope u realize that these games use a very low resolution... if u are playing sc2 on 1600+ resolutions, then 1800 dpi will give roughly the same effective sensitivity as 900 dpi on these low resolution games..... | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Maetl
United States93 Posts
On December 28 2010 02:20 Black Gun wrote: i hope u realize that these games use a very low resolution... if u are playing sc2 on 1600+ resolutions, then 1800 dpi will give roughly the same effective sensitivity as 900 dpi on these low resolution games..... Resolution does not affect sensitivity in any first person games that I am aware of. Comparing sensitivity between Starcraft and first person games is a bit ridiculous to start with. Yeah but those are the same people who use the older CRT's. CRTs are a lot cheaper than 120 Hz LCDs. The refresh rate really does matter when playing some games. | ||
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Critster
Canada7 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On December 28 2010 06:13 Maetl wrote: Resolution does not affect sensitivity in any first person games that I am aware of. Comparing sensitivity between Starcraft and first person games is a bit ridiculous to start with. CRTs are a lot cheaper than 120 Hz LCDs. The refresh rate really does matter when playing some games. Except tournaments you are all playing on the same screens so it's even, just saying .02% faster may make you win at home but it wont make you win in tournaments. Resolution is related to DPI play style between rts and fps tends to be very different. RTS players tend to favor more dpi so they can whip around screen faster. FPS players tend to favor accuracy so they use large arching movements with their arms and lower dpi settings. Changing in game settings does not always work out properly. Changing mouse speed in sc2 in game just uses the windows drivers which has issues in skipping pixels not suitable imo, in otherwords it's just safer for the mouse to do all the work not trust game developers to do things right. | ||
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Maetl
United States93 Posts
On December 28 2010 06:27 semantics wrote: Except tournaments you are all playing on the same screens so it's even, just saying .02% faster may make you win at home but it wont make you win in tournaments. Resolution is related to DPI play style between rts and fps tends to be very different. RTS players tend to favor more dpi so they can whip around screen faster. FPS players tend to favor accuracy so they use large arching movements with their arms and lower dpi settings. Changing in game settings does not always work out properly. Changing mouse speed in sc2 in game just uses the windows drivers which has issues in skipping pixels not suitable imo, in otherwords it's just safer for the mouse to do all the work not trust game developers to do things right. A lot of larger tournaments use 120Hz monitors (Dreamhack at least, probably IEM; I haven't done a ton of research). | ||
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