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The Ultimate Mouse Thread - Page 20

Forum Index > Tech Support
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nOondn
Profile Joined March 2011
564 Posts
January 13 2012 17:47 GMT
#381
On January 14 2012 02:07 Neurosis wrote:
Quoting myself "I'm assuming you use 6/11 windows sens and disable sc2's in game sensitivity"

800 dpi and then a 71 percent increase in game is not what I was talking about at all.

im 50% in game as well =)
Mid Master Terran @ kr server fighting !!!
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 02:46:36
January 14 2012 02:27 GMT
#382
Edited out due to inaccuracies.
Administrator
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
January 14 2012 02:42 GMT
#383
On January 14 2012 11:27 wo1fwood wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

So hey everyone, I've been doing an excessive amount of reading up on the technical side of things, and I figured that finding definitions for all of the potential issues, and terms would be of benefit, especially to those who are somewhat unfamiliar with them. Below I've compiled a list of definitions from around forums and the like, and I wanted to see if we could get them added to the OP here, and also if those who are vastly more proficient than I, to make sure that I have these definitions right. they are as below:

http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html (also a good resource, this link allows you to calculate certain values, and also have many links/programs to help change usb poling rates, mousefix, etc...)




Prediction/angle snapping: Mouse prediction (angle snapping, drift control) is a type of path correction in mouse sensors that assists you in drawing horizontal or vertical lines. If your mouse has prediction, the sensor will predict when you attempt to draw a straight line and correct any movement that drifts away from that line. This is not an accurate representation of your movement, so most people prefer to play without prediction.

FPS or RPS (frames/reports per second): The number of frames captured by the sensor per second in order to detect and calculate movement. Also read, http://www.overclock.net/t/1188509/fps-in-mouse/10#post_16018047.

Interpolation/frame skipping: Interpolation occurs when the MCU/MPU (processor) is forced to guess at the x,y coordinates of a mouse instead of having the actual 'real' reported x,y coordinates. Interpolation also relates to dpi, usually referring to higher dpi resolutions that are not native to the mouse.

Jitter: A hardware error that causes single unit move messages to "jitter" from time to time (note: the size of a unit is less than that of a pixel, so these jitters aren't usually visible).

Perfect control: The top speed up to which the mouse performs exactly as it should.

Malfunction rate: The fastest speed you can move, where the mouse loses control and effectively stops working. When you flick your mouse beyond the Malfunction Speed, anything can happen. You may either end up looking in any random direction or just find you haven't turned around at all. All optical and laser mice must have a Malfunction Speed, so we want it to be as high as possible so you don't notice it.

Negative/positive acceleration: A type of error where certain x,y coordinates are either dropped or skipped.

Tracking precision: The measured accuracy in movements with the mouse.

LOD or Lift-Off Distance: The height at which the mouse still tracks, or stops tracking on a surface.

Z-axis tracking: The axis on which a mouse tracks vertical movements. Good tracking would be defined as the x,y coordinates staying in the same (or relatively same) spot when lifted and placed on the surface again. LOD affects this considerably.

Polling rate: Your mouse's polling rate determines how often it sends data to your operating system. All mouse movements (counts) and button presses must wait in the mouse until windows polls for them. By default, windows will poll a usb mouse every 8 milliseconds, or at a rate of 125hz.


I take task with your definition of prediction.

For starters every optical mouse has to have prediction. Without prediction your mousing experience would be extremely unstable. How much prediction or how aggressive it is, is up to the firmware writer. To restate, there are no mice without prediction, no good ones anyway.

Because prediction is a necessary evil, we increase the polling rate to the device as high as possible, so less prediction takes place.
twitch.tv/medrea
IPS.Blue
Profile Joined January 2004
Germany309 Posts
January 14 2012 16:54 GMT
#384
On January 14 2012 11:27 wo1fwood wrote:... Below I've compiled a list of definitions from around forums and the like ...

You should substitute DPI (dots per inch) with CPI (counts per inch). DPI is just wrong.

Concerning LOD: You do measure LOD with CD's (one CD is 1.2 mm in height). A low LOD would be something like 1 mm (WMO for example), so roughly one CD. There are mice which do have quite high LOD (up to 4/5/6 CD's). You could also add, that a high LOD is generally more problematic for people, which do use a low sensitivity (as they do have to lift off their mouse more frequently).
BinxyBrown
Profile Joined December 2010
United States230 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-14 17:47:39
January 14 2012 17:47 GMT
#385
i use a deathadder and it's awesome, by far and away the best mouse I have ever used, they have a 5600 dpi version now im using the 3600 version but its optimus prime so I'm still glad I bought it over the other lols
Banelings are like Ice Climbers if they grab you... your dead.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10014 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 03:50:59
January 15 2012 03:46 GMT
#386
just ordered a logitech g100 mostly because i wanted to test it out due to the lack of reviews on it
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Zorgon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States211 Posts
January 15 2012 03:48 GMT
#387
On January 15 2012 02:47 BinxyBrown wrote:
i use a deathadder and it's awesome, by far and away the best mouse I have ever used, they have a 5600 dpi version now im using the 3600 version but its optimus prime so I'm still glad I bought it over the other lols


There is no such thing as a 5600dpi DeathAdder.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10014 Posts
January 15 2012 04:03 GMT
#388
btw does anyone know if u can change the g100's driver settings by using logitech setpoint?
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
cmh
Profile Joined December 2005
United States88 Posts
January 15 2012 04:50 GMT
#389
On January 15 2012 13:03 mTwTT1 wrote:
btw does anyone know if u can change the g100's driver settings by using logitech setpoint?



Yea g100 works with Logitech Setpoint. I'm anxious to see how you like it because many people reported that the mouse has jitter, hopefully that's not the case.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10014 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 05:12:30
January 15 2012 04:56 GMT
#390
On January 15 2012 13:50 cmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 13:03 mTwTT1 wrote:
btw does anyone know if u can change the g100's driver settings by using logitech setpoint?



Yea g100 works with Logitech Setpoint. I'm anxious to see how you like it because many people reported that the mouse has jitter, hopefully that's not the case.


yea ive read the complaints about the jittering issue, apparently it jitters alot less on lower dpi speeds + on a non cloth mousepad but sadly i play on 1800 dpi and i use a cloth pad.. well see how it goes

shape looks sexy tho, hopefully logitech'll come out with a firmware fix if it does jitter alot TT
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10014 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-15 05:09:04
January 15 2012 05:08 GMT
#391
On January 15 2012 12:48 Zorgon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 02:47 BinxyBrown wrote:
i use a deathadder and it's awesome, by far and away the best mouse I have ever used, they have a 5600 dpi version now im using the 3600 version but its optimus prime so I'm still glad I bought it over the other lols


There is no such thing as a 5600dpi DeathAdder.


LOL WAT? of course there is.. heres an authentic razer da with 5600dpi for only 180$
http://product.madeinchina.com/Original-authentic-Razer-DeathAdder-Mouse-Upgrade_13257940.shtml
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
January 15 2012 06:00 GMT
#392
wow wat a deal.

ಠ_ಠ
twitch.tv/medrea
Ace1123
Profile Joined September 2011
Philippines1187 Posts
January 15 2012 06:45 GMT
#393
On January 15 2012 14:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 12:48 Zorgon wrote:
On January 15 2012 02:47 BinxyBrown wrote:
i use a deathadder and it's awesome, by far and away the best mouse I have ever used, they have a 5600 dpi version now im using the 3600 version but its optimus prime so I'm still glad I bought it over the other lols


There is no such thing as a 5600dpi DeathAdder.


LOL WAT? of course there is.. heres an authentic razer da with 5600dpi for only 180$
http://product.madeinchina.com/Original-authentic-Razer-DeathAdder-Mouse-Upgrade_13257940.shtml


That is actually called Lachesis not Death adder
ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR,
zoLo
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States5896 Posts
January 15 2012 09:37 GMT
#394
Are the newer Steelseries mouse any good?
stickyhands
Profile Joined May 2011
187 Posts
January 15 2012 10:22 GMT
#395
On January 15 2012 18:37 zoLo wrote:
Are the newer Steelseries mouse any good?

no, terribad to be honest.
Steelseries is the worst mouse constructor in fact. Almost all their mouse have hardware built-in acceleration, or prediction, or high lift of distance.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
zoLo
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States5896 Posts
January 15 2012 10:50 GMT
#396
On January 15 2012 19:22 stickyhands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 18:37 zoLo wrote:
Are the newer Steelseries mouse any good?

no, terribad to be honest.
Steelseries is the worst mouse constructor in fact. Almost all their mouse have hardware built-in acceleration, or prediction, or high lift of distance.


Damn... I was looking to buy one of their newer ones like the Sensei or Kinzu v2... Do you know anything about the Razer Abyssus? Or is Razer just as bad? What about the Zowie EC2?
stickyhands
Profile Joined May 2011
187 Posts
January 15 2012 11:20 GMT
#397
Some abyssus works well, and some others suffer jitters problems, some say its about the mousepad you use with.
The deathadder works well, the "new" Logitech G400 too (serial number > 13333), Im not sure about the zowie EC2 so i cant really tell, you should investigate there: http://www.overclock.net/f/375/mice wich is the most aware forum about mice in the universe
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
January 15 2012 13:03 GMT
#398
On January 15 2012 13:56 mTwTT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 13:50 cmh wrote:
On January 15 2012 13:03 mTwTT1 wrote:
btw does anyone know if u can change the g100's driver settings by using logitech setpoint?



Yea g100 works with Logitech Setpoint. I'm anxious to see how you like it because many people reported that the mouse has jitter, hopefully that's not the case.


yea ive read the complaints about the jittering issue, apparently it jitters alot less on lower dpi speeds + on a non cloth mousepad but sadly i play on 1800 dpi and i use a cloth pad.. well see how it goes

shape looks sexy tho, hopefully logitech'll come out with a firmware fix if it does jitter alot TT


I have the G100, shape is fine (my favorite among all the mice I've tried), but the sensor is bad, I was disappointed. Past the 1000 dpi option, it skips pixels like the resolution isn't even native (http://imageshack.us/f/718/g100n.jpg/).
In the end, the G100 has the exact same shape as the G1 (different touch though, and I prefer the G1), and same usable dpi. I returned back to my G1 :/
But 1000 dpi makes me play SC2 with 91% sensitivity in the game options haha, I'm feeling a bit capped.
dervogel
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany2 Posts
January 15 2012 21:47 GMT
#399
Hey everybody,

for the longest time a used i mouse of Microsoft, in fact for several years. This mouse however did die at some point and while trying to just buy the same one again, i had to acknowledge that they did not produce it anymore. Up to this date i am not sure if it was a co-production between Microsoft and Razer or if one just stole the design, however the Razer Deathadder was practically the same. Except of one flaw... the right side of the chassis faces to the right outter side, whereas the Microsoft version turned into the mouse ( i hope this description makes sense... ).
Over the years i got the bad habit of readjusting the mous position to get more comfortable by lifting it. Since the two mice were basically the same except of the described chausse difference i am pretty confident, that my wrist problems i got after 3 to 4 month based on this change. To lift the mouse i simply had to use way more pressure with my thumb and my outer finger.

So there i was looking for a new mouse once again, and because i could not find any mouse like my old one / the Deathadder, i followed the advice of a friend of mine and switched to a smaller one, the Razer Abyssus. I am using this one for several month now, and i have to say that it helped with my wrist problems, being waaaay smaller and weighting half as much (?) in comparison to the Deathadder. However, because of
1.) my pretty big hands and
2.) having used the palm grip for basically my whole life i still do not feel comfortable with it.

And so there we are at the point where i need your advice... i want to return to my beloved palm grip, however, i seem to always be led back to the Razer Deathadder when i search for one. Since it isn´t a solution for me, i would like to get some suggestions from you guys. I guess the new mouse would not have to be just as big as the Deathadder, especially high, since it is quite a beast . It should however not be all that smaller. An other point i am not 100% sure about are the ergonomic designs, because in contrast to apparently every other human being i put my middle finger on the mouse wheel and use the right mouse button with my ring finger.
So the requirements for a new mouse in a nutshell:
- right handed
- "big"
- designed for the palm grip
- "easy" to lift / grab
- preferably non-ergonomic, i would appreciate advice about this though, since i am not certain about how normal that is^^

As you can see i am not really all that excited about the technical details since i am not really all that hard to satisfy. I used to play with 1800 dpi, working on 3500 with my abyssus at the moment but tend to go back to 1800 if i feel comfortable again... Besides that i dont need more than the basic buttons or flashing lights, the only no-go would be in-built acceleration.

I would like to thank you guys for even reading this and would appreciate any suggestions, feel free to ask me whatever
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10014 Posts
January 16 2012 00:30 GMT
#400
AAAAAAAAH the mouse wheel on my da is loose so it starts to wobble from side side whenever im playing, shit is driving me insane
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
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