EPTAfter using having the option on for quite some time, I definitely feel a difference with it off.
Enhance Pointer Precision Option on Windows
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EZjijy
United States1039 Posts
After using having the option on for quite some time, I definitely feel a difference with it off. | ||
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silencefc
United States875 Posts
ie. You need to move half an inch really fast, but if you move too fast the mouse enhancement will try to adjust and you fly like 3 inches too far. It's good for control sticks used on console FPS because they can only move so far. Bad for when you really need short precision with a mouse. | ||
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scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
Edit: test it. With it on move your mouse 3 inches on the desk quickly then slowly. The distances traveled between the two will be different. With precision off it wlll remain the same distance no matter the speed the mouse is moved. | ||
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Warp
United States166 Posts
Plus day9 said in one of his podcasts in sc1 "DON'T USE MOUSE ACCELERATION." | ||
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SnakeChomp
Canada125 Posts
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standalone
Norway73 Posts
It's however always horrible if you want exact hand movements to result in exact mouse movements consistently. And most gamers want exactly that. | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
"Its all preference" I have used mouse accel for years, and I prefer it on because I am so used to it. I used it playing competetive CS, CoD4, serious WoW. At this point I know exactly how fast and how much I need to move the mouse to get anywhere because of muscle memory. Its actually quite nice in FPS for high precision sniping. | ||
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standalone
Norway73 Posts
Mouse acceleration makes muscle memory training harder and less reliable. You don't have the ability to calculate the exact speed at which you are moving your mouse to get a specific response. | ||
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scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:17 blagoonga123 wrote: maybe i should turn off acceleration then. It feels so weird without it though. You will get used to it pretty fast. | ||
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G2Wolf
United States261 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:52 Seide wrote: its been said time and time again in every single thread like this: "Its all preference" I have used mouse accel for years, and I prefer it on because I am so used to it. I used it playing competetive CS, CoD4, serious WoW. At this point I know exactly how fast and how much I need to move the mouse to get anywhere because of muscle memory. Its actually quite nice in FPS for high precision sniping. You might be the only person I've ever heard say that. Mouse Accel is absolutely -terrible- for any kind of high-precision sniping. I'm curious as to how good your teams were in CS and CoD. | ||
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soultwister
Poland80 Posts
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
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techh
Iceland82 Posts
as one said before me it fucks your gaming precision hard its even worse if you have it on in a fps game. Thats just... wrong... | ||
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:23 G2Wolf wrote: You might be the only person I've ever heard say that. Mouse Accel is absolutely -terrible- for any kind of high-precision sniping. I'm curious as to how good your teams were in CS and CoD. Second that. Being an ex-competitive fps player, any acceleration at all is bad. It isn't preference, it's stupidity to use it. It makes movements completely random, and you cannot have precise aiming while using acceleration as it is effected by your last movement, making mouse movements completely random. I use the MarkC MouseAccel fix (windows will still use acceleration even if enhance pointer precision is disabled). It will help your mouse coordination greatly, even in Starcraft. | ||
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HuK
Canada1591 Posts
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
it is effected by your last movement would you please explain this? | ||
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
Example: If you make a large sweep across your mouse pad at a fast speed, and then try to move the mouse slowly (say, following a target with your crosshair in a fps) your mouse speed will be artificially accelerated as a result of your last movement, making your ability to follow the target inconsistent. Aim is all about consistency, and this applies to your ability to micro in SC2 aswell. You can not practice and achieve perfect movements if they are completely random every time. | ||
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
Switching from on to off is sooo much easier than the other way around. Shouldn't take more than two weeks to get used to it completely. | ||
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Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
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Grebliv
Iceland800 Posts
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Stool
United States15 Posts
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
Windows still has some accel after disabling the option though, but I don't notice it much, and CPL mousefix doesn't actually do anything for Windows 7. | ||
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pksens
United Kingdom156 Posts
If u have an accelfix, this setting does nothing. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
The difference between the two cases is enormous: 1. If I move the mouse X distance at Y speed, I get Z result. 2. If I move the moues X distance, I get Y result. Human muscle memory takes incredible advantage of the second case. It is so much simpler for your brain and hand to coordinate in the second case. Sure, you can teach yourself the 1st case, but you are just making it more difficult for yourself. Removing barriers of difficulty in any task will help you perform that task better. Having mouse acceleration on is, in my mind, akin to only using odd numbers for hotkeys or disabling your "a" key, forcing yourself to click. It just makes the same task less intuitive and more difficult. | ||
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G2Wolf
United States261 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:49 Vei wrote: i'm so used to it, i'm low diamond 1200 and have it on... i can't believe i'm SO in the minority though lol You're in the minority because you could do so much better with accel off. | ||
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BcGladiator
United States58 Posts
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:50 Genome852 wrote: Have it off from all the years of playing CS competitively. Windows still has some accel after disabling the option though, but I don't notice it much, and CPL mousefix doesn't actually do anything for Windows 7. the MarkC fix works on 7 On September 29 2010 07:48 Stool wrote: What about the 'Reduce Mouse Lag' option under the SC2 Graphics options? Does that affect anything regarding control and should I have it on or off? It does what it says, reduces mouse lag. This is done by controlling the games ability to dedicate priority to frames/sec, as is sometimes the case. This will often result in slight stutters in mouse movement. However, turning the option on could have a drastic effect on your overall framerate. | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
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R1CH
Netherlands10342 Posts
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Glacius0
Netherlands66 Posts
In SC2 I seem to be needing both: - I make big fast imprecise movements to scroll the screen or select a big group of units. - I make small subtle movements like selecting individual units in a clump or spawn larva on hatcheries on a minimap. Now I know that a lot of people say mouse acceleration is bad regardless. Can anyone explain how this example would be easier without it? I don't quite think I understand. It seems to me that disabled mouse acceleration only helps for precise twitch movement that is needed a lot in shooters. At the very least both options seem viable to me. | ||
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zak
Korea (South)1009 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:56 zak wrote: rofl I turned it off to try and see how much better it would be but it SUCKS with it off. Accel is the way to go! can you or someone who agrees explain what makes you use it? I can't see anyone being comfortable with it after using both settings for a long period of time. I had it on accidentally for a while in BW and felt so much better after I had it off after just a few days. | ||
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G2Wolf
United States261 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:56 zak wrote: rofl I turned it off to try and see how much better it would be but it SUCKS with it off. Accel is the way to go! Try leaving it off for more than 5 minutes. Give it a week and you'll be much better with it off. | ||
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HaIf
Canada234 Posts
I have to adjust all my settings though | ||
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Jochan
Poland1730 Posts
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Ethelis
United States2397 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:55 R1CH wrote: This actually shouldn't make any difference in most games as DirectInput has no acceleration regardless of Windows settings. R1CH has spoken.  | ||
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Logikz
United States65 Posts
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Spoofed
United States15 Posts
After trying to hit the same target over and over I do notice I manage to overshoot every time. However the same problem occurs with the option turned off, in fact I fall short be a larger amount. Setting the pointer speed faster makes it so that although I'm more accurate with longer distances I always overshoot short ones. I'll try and keep it off and see how it feels after awhile. If what R1CH said is true then this entire thing is moot... | ||
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Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:32 techh wrote: turn that shit off, its so bad it snot even funny. as one said before me its even worse if you have it on in a fps game. Thats just... wrong... lol im retarded then was ch13 in soldierfront with that stuff on be4 I quit a month ago. | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:55 R1CH wrote: This actually shouldn't make any difference in most games as DirectInput has no acceleration regardless of Windows settings. What about if I'm using logitech drivers (setpoint) | ||
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Yotta
United States270 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:32 gogogadgetflow wrote: I made the switch from mouse acceleration to no mouse acceleration a few years ago. There's a slight learning curve because you've been using acceleration for so long, but once you get used to no acceleration you'll never look back, especially for gaming.I tried turning it off and can't click on stuff for shit. Is there really a downside to leaving it on, given that I'm familiar with it? | ||
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
I have tested various games (cs 1.6/source, WoW, BW, SC2, C&C etc) using an application that tests if mouse movement are truly 1:1 in real-time, giving a direct numeric output of movement, and they are all effected by acceleration. PS: for people who are just learning about this, disabling "enhance pointer precision" alone won't disable acceleration. You also need to apply a patch, commonly known as a mousefix, that applies a registry key making x/y movements truly 1:1. CheeseFix for Windows XP, and MarkC fix for Windows 7. | ||
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artanis2
United States732 Posts
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greycubed
United States615 Posts
Edit: On September 29 2010 08:19 Angry_Fetus wrote:PS: for people who are just learning about this, disabling "enhance pointer precision" alone won't disable acceleration. You also need to apply a patch, commonly known as a mousefix, that applies a registry key making x/y movements truly 1:1. CheeseFix for Windows XP, and MarkC fix for Windows 7. Ah, I remember reading about that. Edit again: Just tried the MarkC thing. Big difference. | ||
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Papillon
Germany131 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:56 Glacius0 wrote: I have a theory that mouse acceleration can be more precise if you have to click really small targets and still want to keep fast mouse movement for big imprecise moves. In SC2 I seem to be needing both: - I make big fast imprecise movements to scroll the screen or select a big group of units. - I make small subtle movements like selecting individual units in a clump or spawn larva on hatcheries on a minimap. Now I know that a lot of people say mouse acceleration is bad regardless. Can anyone explain how this example would be easier without it? I don't quite think I understand. It seems to me that disabled mouse acceleration only helps for precise twitch movement that is needed a lot in shooters. At the very least both options seem viable to me. Years ago, I switched away from mouse acceleration. Without acceleration, my aim on bad days got a lot better, while staying the same as before on good days. For example, it got a lot easier to have satisfying performance with cold hands or when being jittery because of too much coffee and not enough sleep. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
On September 29 2010 08:19 Angry_Fetus wrote: I have tested various games (cs 1.6/source, WoW, BW, SC2, C&C etc) using an application that tests if mouse movement are truly 1:1 in real-time, giving a direct numeric output of movement, and they are all effected by acceleration. PS: for people who are just learning about this, disabling "enhance pointer precision" alone won't disable acceleration. You also need to apply a patch, commonly known as a mousefix, that applies a registry key making x/y movements truly 1:1. CheeseFix for Windows XP, and MarkC fix for Windows 7. Can you suggest something good for Vista? | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
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Classysaurus
United States78 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:09 Wr3k wrote: I misclicked on yes. Search for the mouse acceleration thread in which I explain why its terrible if you are curious about what I have to say. While I agree with the points you make in the other thread, and feel that in the long run, having a consistent 1:1 movement behavior makes a noticeable difference... I find it ironic that you miss clicked. | ||
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Bubu
Germany29 Posts
On September 29 2010 06:52 Seide wrote: I have used mouse accel for years, and I prefer it on because I am so used to it. I used it playing competetive CS, CoD4, serious WoW. this is REALLY bad. you should disable the acceleration. i'm playing FPS games since ~15 years. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
On September 29 2010 09:00 hifriend wrote: A couple of bw pro's used acceleration so I think this debate is always grossly exaggerated. I really don't think so. Something can be objectively inferior yet still have proponents simply because they're used to it and don't want to go through the temporary dip in their play a switch would cause. I wouldn't say it's a groundbreaking difference, but when the relationship between your hand movement and cursor movement is constant rather than variable, you're going to be less inclined to error in the long run. I found my misclicks decreased significantly when I switched. I caught up to where I was before mechanically in under a month. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
But you people make it out to be a big deal - way bigger than it actually is. I turned it off now & also installed this MarkC fix. Honestly I dont really see a difference. Sometimes I miss something - but not really that much. Playing osu! I get 2-3 more misses than usual. According to you my muscle memory should be fucked up atm. But maybe this is, because I have a really high sensitivy anyway. Will see in a few weeks *G* | ||
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Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
not hard at all, just do some custom games and practice clicking on crap. | ||
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Gui Montag
Denmark10 Posts
Is there a way to have high sensitivity without acceleration and not have small movements become jerky? | ||
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EZjijy
United States1039 Posts
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Gui Montag
Denmark10 Posts
Unfortunately, it doesn't have anything to do with how I move the mouse. Even if I move the mouse infinitely slowly the pointer still jerks, but if I turn acceleration on the jerkiness goes away. I guess it's because I use a higher sensitivity than most people. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:34 Liquid`HuK wrote: i was playing with it on during esl cologne germany, god did it feel so different Did you forget to turn it off or did think it wasn't a big deal? | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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G2Wolf
United States261 Posts
On September 29 2010 10:19 Gui Montag wrote: My problem is, when I boost the mouse sensitivity to a satisfactory level for me (high by most standards), small movements become very jerky and selecting an individual unit in starcraft takes more effort than it should. For that reason mouse acceleration works best for me. Is there a way to have high sensitivity without acceleration and not have small movements become jerky? What kind of mouse do you have and pad to play on? | ||
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Phant
United States737 Posts
I tried putting the mouse speed bar in windows 7 right in the middle like everyone says. And it is just way too slow (have to slide my arm across a table in order to move across the screen). Whenever it is off of that point the program says it's not moving 1:1, but it feels exactly the same. I also tried moving my mouse faster vs. slower, and the pointer moves the same distance regardless of speed setting...maybe I'm doing something wrong? | ||
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vindKtiv
United States215 Posts
I can definitely see where most people are coming from though. Clicking things without EPP would be much easier to get use to. | ||
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standalone
Norway73 Posts
On September 29 2010 07:53 DefMatrixUltra wrote: The difference between being "good" at something and excelling at something can often be found in the small details. Sure, you can be "good" at playing any PC game with mouse acceleration on. However, if you have it off, you now have a 1:1 ratio and can make use of one of the most powerful abilities humans have: muscle memory. The difference between the two cases is enormous: 1. If I move the mouse X distance at Y speed, I get Z result. 2. If I move the moues X distance, I get Y result. Human muscle memory takes incredible advantage of the second case. It is so much simpler for your brain and hand to coordinate in the second case. Sure, you can teach yourself the 1st case, but you are just making it more difficult for yourself. Removing barriers of difficulty in any task will help you perform that task better. Having mouse acceleration on is, in my mind, akin to only using odd numbers for hotkeys or disabling your "a" key, forcing yourself to click. It just makes the same task less intuitive and more difficult. An excellent explanation and this is what it boils down to. You can prefer to add a variable that makes muscle memory harder. But why would you? | ||
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scottyyy
United Kingdom796 Posts
I'm still pretty new to PC FPS so I'm still learning, but turning off mouse accel and lowering my mouse sensitivity (now at 1.8 at 1600dpi) has helped me more than than I could imagine. I didn't even need to get used to it in game, it was just an instant improvement. | ||
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Nasty.Nate
United States96 Posts
It was ON by DEFAULT on my computer, and I've been gaming with it for years. I'm trying to play with it off right now and having difficulty making precise clicks, but only because I am not familiar with having it off, I think. The option to toggle it is located in the control panel of Windows 7. Someone should make this thread a sticky. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On August 17 2011 09:48 Nasty.Nate wrote: I just found out about this mouse option tonight which shocked me. It was ON by DEFAULT on my computer, and I've been gaming with it for years. I'm trying to play with it off right now and having difficulty making precise clicks, but only because I am not familiar with having it off, I think. The option to toggle it is located in the control panel of Windows 7. Someone should make this thread a sticky. Actually the mouse accelleration option in windows is perma bugged. In order to get rid of mouse acceleration, you need a mouse registry fix. The location of the registry is here: (Type regedit) HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Mouse Look under smoothmousexcurve and smoothmouseycurve. Check that the values are the following. ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/Xcurve.JPG) And ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/Ycurve.JPG) If you do not do this. mouse acceleration is always on. I repeat, the dialogue option in windows XP, Vista, and 7 is bugged. It does not actually perform as described. I have visited tournament systems. Gamers and progamers systems, LANS, cybercafes of all kind. And they VERY OFTEN do not have the proper mouse registry values for gaming. DO NOT trust your mouses drivers to take care of this for you. I know from experience that Logitech (Setpoint) does not always completely remove mouse accel. EDIT: Some games behave differently and this doesn't matter (accel is ignored), some do not. It is hard to tell. But 14 years of progaming has shown us that mouse accel is never a good thing. However, since the default registry values are SO COMMON and tournaments do NOT allow you to alter the registry of the system. I am conflicted as to whether or not I should play with these values, which have been described as true 1:1 | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
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dbddbddb
Singapore969 Posts
however, you should definitely not be playing with acceleration, but if you already are used to it i guess its better to just stick with it | ||
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Nasty.Nate
United States96 Posts
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Phayze
Canada2029 Posts
On August 17 2011 10:09 SichuanPanda wrote: I like acceleration myself having to constantly drag and push and pull the mouse all over because it moves at the same speed all the time is useless as far as I'm concerned. And in regards to the comment about muscle memory. If you keep your accel settings the same your muscle memory remembers the acceleration. No, acceleration in itself cannot be predicted. You wont move your hand the exact same speed every single time you do a similar movement and the cursor progression will be different every time. Secondly, moving the mouse more promotes good bloodflow and will reduce your chances of getting any sort of RSI. Accel may be purely a "i like it" and "i dont" kind of thing. But having played css very competitively it makes you quite inconsistent. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On August 19 2011 18:51 Nasty.Nate wrote: If the option is bugged, why did I notice a huge change my mouse movement by disabling it? Also, I physically tested it and it seems the option actually is working. I'm not about to manually edit my registry, but I did download the Mark C registry fix though and applied it. However, after restarting I haven't noticed any changes from where they were already at by disabling the setting in Windows. If you applied a registry fix, its the same thing as modifying the values manually. Also I didn't say the option in windows did nothing, Im saying it doesn't work as you might think it does. Maybe someone can come in and say what the hex values above mean PRECISELY, but as far as I am aware those are the values for 1:1 motion. Meaning if you move your mouse X distance in real life, the cursor moves a constant distance C. This is regardless of speed of movement. If you flick the mouse really fast, or move like molasses, over a distance X, the result will always be a C constant. AFAIK with acceleration, faster motions across X distance result in a C+f(x) meaning that faster movement speeds, even over the same distance, result in a greater reaction from the cursor, which is undesirable for most, usually resulting in a floaty feel. Window mouse precision setting also does a bunch of other things to bump your cursor around that are also really annoying. Some people think no accel means constant motion over a time, but thats not right. Take any persons mouse and go crazy with it and it moves faster. | ||
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Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
On August 17 2011 10:09 SichuanPanda wrote: I like acceleration myself having to constantly drag and push and pull the mouse all over because it moves at the same speed all the time is useless as far as I'm concerned. And in regards to the comment about muscle memory. If you keep your accel settings the same your muscle memory remembers the acceleration. You know that you can increase the sensitivity in conjunction with with the mouse acceleration off, don't you? It's easy to set it to a faster speed where you never have to lift the mouse off the table, or move your wrist from where it's pivoting or whatever it is that you're comfortable with. Of course, it's far preferable to increase mouse DPI rather than put the Windows (or your app's) software sensitivity beyond the 6/11 mark (otherwise there will be pixels you can never click on). As for muscle memory remembering the acceleration, I'm sceptical - all it would take is an adrenaline burst during some heavy micro moment, and your pointer will be moving at a different speed than your brain expects. | ||
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To-mos
United States2 Posts
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To-mos
United States2 Posts
On August 19 2011 19:02 Phayze wrote: No, acceleration in itself cannot be predicted. You wont move your hand the exact same speed every single time you do a similar movement and the cursor progression will be different every time. Secondly, moving the mouse more promotes good bloodflow and will reduce your chances of getting any sort of RSI. Accel may be purely a "i like it" and "i dont" kind of thing. But having played css very competitively it makes you quite inconsistent. Actually yes it can be. I know the exact speed and distance required to turn 90 degrees or 360 ect. with acceleration enabled. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
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