|
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
On November 14 2011 15:36 Womwomwom wrote:
Seriously speaking, you're better off saving $500-600 then buying a whole new computer. Nearly everything in that build needs to be replaced if you want it to last:
1) The processor is aging but might be salvageable. The original Phenom is around 10-30% slower than the Phenom II clock for clock...which is not good for games that need a decent CPU.
2) That power supply looks like one of those SFX PSU and probably isn't ATX spec - the efficiency, noise, and ability to dissipate heat will likely be terrible compared to a modern ATX power supply. If the PSU is a STX PSU, then the case then shouldn't be compatible with ATX power supplies.
3) The GPU probably can't run any modern games properly.
Since the case, power supply, processor, and GPU is obsolete, you're pretty much required to buy a whole new computer anyway. Despite what Shikyo says, you can't just buy a new GPU and power supply because the power supply probably won't even fit in your desktop. The most that can probably be salvageable is the hard drive (is it IDE or SATA?) and the DVD/CD-ROM drive.
Yeah, I didn't see / he didn't tell me that it wasn't a standard ATX case <_< Actually I still haven't seen a picture of the case but.
There's a few STX PSUs available like some 350W Be Quiet! model that he could upgrade to but I'm not sure if that'd be intelligent.
It's true that he'd be better off replacing the entire computer as as he's going to have to replace the case as well and he'd be having CPU problems down the road.
The good news is that you can buy an entire new computer with a 300$ budget if you don't need to get a HDD or the OS.
On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think?
Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there.
For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details.
|
Ok. Here is the final decision. I'm about to buy the parts asap.
i3-2120 Processor
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 - 1GB
Ram Corsair 8 GB DDR3-1333
GIGABYTE GA-H61M-DS2
Western Digital 200AAJB (320GB U100 7200) Hard Drive (Is U100 ok?)
Enermax 450W Power Supply
Antec 300 Case
is it looking compatible? Give me the signal and I'll pull the trigger
|
That HDD seems to be IDE and it's much slower than SATA. If it's really cheap I guess it's okay but I'd still try to get a faster HDD.
Assuming the RAM is 1.5V it should be okay.
For the case I'd get this instead, cheaper and better:
http://kakaku.com/item/K0000232423/
|
5930 Posts
|
|
|
5930 Posts
IDE drives are likely to be slow as shit not because of the IDE connection but their age. Over the years, we've have a lot of advances in hard drive technology.
If you must have a computer now, have no chance to save cash (you're doing the JET program?), and your motherboard has an IDE port, you can get away with the IDE drive. I'd really try and get a modern SATA-based hard disk like the Caviar Blue I listed however.
|
I'm picking the HD you suggested. I'm not doing the JET program but its very similar to it. I think I'm good to go!
|
On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:
Yeah, I didn't see / he didn't tell me that it wasn't a standard ATX case <_< Actually I still haven't seen a picture of the case but.
Sorry. I didn't know.
I think im going to wait a few years to play skyrim. too bad there isnt a refund policy.
|
So it appears that Sandy Bridge E actually delivers. It seems to be better than 2500k and 2600k in some singlethreaded tasks while being at least equal in others and beating both in multithreaded tasks and seems to also be better than both 2500k and 2600k in gaming. And as the 4-channel memory of 2011 is almost twice as fast as the 2-channel memory of 1155, I'd say it'd be a valid choice, especially as this non-extreme version:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116492
Is still just about as good as the extreme version and so-and-so reasonably priced, it might actually be a legit option in high budget builds.
|
On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think? Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there. For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details.
Won't the i3 2120 perform worse in gaming because it doesn't have turboboost?
|
On November 15 2011 01:34 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think? Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there. For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details. Won't the i3 2120 perform worse in gaming because it doesn't have turboboost?
Well it'd be same speed as i5 2400 actually -.- my bad, I guess "better for cost" would be more correct
|
On November 15 2011 01:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 01:34 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think? Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there. For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details. Won't the i3 2120 perform worse in gaming because it doesn't have turboboost? Well it'd be same speed as i5 2400 actually -.- my bad, I guess "better for cost" would be more correct
Yeah, I just looked up the i3 2120, is the only difference from the i3 2100 the clock speed at 3.3 instead of 3.1? Even though SC2 is only optimized for two cores, doesn't it still marginally use more if you have them? I was just under the assumption it wasn't very efficiently used. I know in benchmarks the i3 2100 is shit on by the i5 2400 and I don't think the marginal difference in clock speed could be the only difference (not saying the extra cores are the difference, either. I'm just saying I didn't think it was as straight forward as you're making it).
I do understand though as you said in terms of cost.
|
On November 15 2011 01:47 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 01:40 Shikyo wrote:On November 15 2011 01:34 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think? Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there. For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details. Won't the i3 2120 perform worse in gaming because it doesn't have turboboost? Well it'd be same speed as i5 2400 actually -.- my bad, I guess "better for cost" would be more correct Yeah, I just looked up the i3 2120, is the only difference from the i3 2100 the clock speed at 3.3 instead of 3.1? Even though SC2 is only optimized for two cores, doesn't it still marginally use more if you have them? I was just under the assumption it wasn't very efficiently used. I know in benchmarks the i3 2100 is shit on by the i5 2400 and I don't think the marginal difference in clock speed could be the only difference (not saying the extra cores are the difference, either. I'm just saying I didn't think it was as straight forward as you're making it). I do understand though as you said in terms of cost.
Well that's interesting, why is it that way? o_O The L3 cache?
|
On November 15 2011 01:51 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 01:47 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 15 2011 01:40 Shikyo wrote:On November 15 2011 01:34 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think? Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there. For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details. Won't the i3 2120 perform worse in gaming because it doesn't have turboboost? Well it'd be same speed as i5 2400 actually -.- my bad, I guess "better for cost" would be more correct Yeah, I just looked up the i3 2120, is the only difference from the i3 2100 the clock speed at 3.3 instead of 3.1? Even though SC2 is only optimized for two cores, doesn't it still marginally use more if you have them? I was just under the assumption it wasn't very efficiently used. I know in benchmarks the i3 2100 is shit on by the i5 2400 and I don't think the marginal difference in clock speed could be the only difference (not saying the extra cores are the difference, either. I'm just saying I didn't think it was as straight forward as you're making it). I do understand though as you said in terms of cost. Well that's interesting, why is it that way? o_O The L3 cache?
I'm more of the "look up benchmarks" and "price/performance" guy than actually knowing why or how any of this shit actually works!
|
On November 15 2011 01:47 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 01:40 Shikyo wrote:On November 15 2011 01:34 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think? Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there. For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details. Won't the i3 2120 perform worse in gaming because it doesn't have turboboost? Well it'd be same speed as i5 2400 actually -.- my bad, I guess "better for cost" would be more correct Yeah, I just looked up the i3 2120, is the only difference from the i3 2100 the clock speed at 3.3 instead of 3.1? Even though SC2 is only optimized for two cores, doesn't it still marginally use more if you have them? I was just under the assumption it wasn't very efficiently used. I know in benchmarks the i3 2100 is shit on by the i5 2400 and I don't think the marginal difference in clock speed could be the only difference (not saying the extra cores are the difference, either. I'm just saying I didn't think it was as straight forward as you're making it). I do understand though as you said in terms of cost.
I was under the impression that it uses 2 cores and thats that... the 2100 performes like a 2300 as they will both be on 3.1 GHz (turbo for the 2300) Im not sure how the 2100 gets shit on by the 2400: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i5-2500-2400-2300_7.html#sect0 but the 4 fps difference should be explained by the 0.3 GHz difference.
|
So I posted a couple pages back about buying a new motherboard, and the advice I got was said basically to get the cheapest one that meets a few small requirements (like being compatible to the phenom II x4 I bought), but now I wonder if it is worth getting a new video card as well. I am going to be buying windows 7, as well as playing games like starcraft, so I wanted to get the opinion of the people here. My current graphics card is a 512MB GeForce 9600 GT (EVGA). My upgrade cycle is a long time (budget: $200ish? i couldn't' say for sure, it's complicated), so I wanted to know if I should try to see if I can get one now (with all the sales right now), or if what I have is good enough to last a while.
|
That also depends on your PSU, if you have an old/bad one, you will need to include a new one in your cost, so like 150$ for a 6850 and 50$ for a correct PSU.
If you only plan on playing starcraft, gt9600 is still ok though ...
|
On November 15 2011 03:14 Ata wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 01:47 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 15 2011 01:40 Shikyo wrote:On November 15 2011 01:34 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 14 2011 21:46 Shikyo wrote:On November 14 2011 21:29 GhostOwl wrote:On November 14 2011 21:19 skyR wrote:
What the hell? Why were you considering downgrading from a Phenom II to a A6?
Most games (which includes Skyrim) doesn't utilize more than two threads so having a billion core cpu is useless. A core i3 is better than a second generation Phenom. Though many would consider this a sidegrade and not an upgrade. With such a tight budget, I'm not sure why you are considering this. My computer (that has the Phenom) is in the States.. I couldn't manage to bring it here and I regret it Anyway, if most games don't utilize more than two threads, then I might as well get the i3....The i3-2120 is better than the i3-2100 right? It seems to be very similarly priced in Kakaku so I'm going to get the 2120...what do you think? Yeah, i3 2120 would be the way to go assuming you're on a budget. It's similiar / better than i5 2400 in single- and doublethreaded tasks(most gaming, notably SC2, Skyrim), but obviously slower in others. Still the hyperthreading is going to help there. For the graphics card, assuming you're on a budget, you'd probably be looking at something like 6770 or possibly the 6850 if you want it to last a bit longer / play at nicer details. Won't the i3 2120 perform worse in gaming because it doesn't have turboboost? Well it'd be same speed as i5 2400 actually -.- my bad, I guess "better for cost" would be more correct Yeah, I just looked up the i3 2120, is the only difference from the i3 2100 the clock speed at 3.3 instead of 3.1? Even though SC2 is only optimized for two cores, doesn't it still marginally use more if you have them? I was just under the assumption it wasn't very efficiently used. I know in benchmarks the i3 2100 is shit on by the i5 2400 and I don't think the marginal difference in clock speed could be the only difference (not saying the extra cores are the difference, either. I'm just saying I didn't think it was as straight forward as you're making it). I do understand though as you said in terms of cost. I was under the impression that it uses 2 cores and thats that... the 2100 performes like a 2300 as they will both be on 3.1 GHz (turbo for the 2300) Im not sure how the 2100 gets shit on by the 2400: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i5-2500-2400-2300_7.html#sect0 but the 4 fps difference should be explained by the 0.3 GHz difference.
What.... are you talking about...
The entire post was commenting how you couldn't compare them like that. Then you go and post "well look, assuming they do, there's virtually no difference!"
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/129 (29% difference between i3 2100 and i5 2400)
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-cpu-core-i3-2100-phenom-ii-x6-1075t,2859-8.html (23% difference between i3 2100 and i5 2400)
Now, I could be wrong, but you attempting to prove me wrong with evidence I was stating I don't think holds is simply stupid. If I said, "I don't think you can quite compare the i3 2100 and the i5 2300 in SC2 like you're doing" and then you link me to a benchmark saying "here's the i5 2300, it should perform similarly to the i3 2100 since they're clocked the same and SC2 only runs dual core" I'm going to call you an idiot. Even if I'm wrong and they could be compared, you're not proving anything to me with that bench.
|
Hello again TL; just checking back in regards to a build I finished a couple of weeks ago. Stats:
i5 2500K
AsRock P67 Pro3 B3
GTX 560ti (EVGA)
500GB HDD (Seagate)
HAF912
2 x 4GB RAM DDR3-1333 1.5V
Antec Neo Eco 520C 520W
Asus Optical drive
CM Hyper 212+
Windows 7 Home
Took me 4-5 hours total to build and there were some initial hiccups but it seems to be working fine now.. problem is I don't know why. After all of the driver installs/updates I installed DragonNest/BF3/SC2 and tried playing, however DN would keep crashing into black screen with an error message regarding the Kernel Driver. At its worst it would chain-crash into auto-restart without me doing anything, which was actually a bit terrifying. BF3 also kept crashing with the same Kernel driver problem and I would only be able to join a game roughly 20% of the time.
I system-restored to a point prior to game installation but after driver installation, and reseated the GPU just in case.... and now everything works fine except I'm scared to re-install DN, lol. I was having paged-pool memory problems with SC2 even running on low/medium but I googled that, fixed it, and now it runs fine on high settings. Join rate on BF3 is now near 100% after a week or so of playing.
In any case, building was a fun and informative experience! Thanks to skyR and Myrmidon for help with part suggestions!
|
The L3 cache does matter. See Phenom II vs. Athlon II, but also note that the architecture has a lot to do with how quickly the cache can be accessed, how likely it is for there to be a branch prediction miss, and so on. See (here for memory/cache access latencies. But the other thing to keep in mind is that some results are just not very repeatable and suspect. AnandTech SC2 benches don't make sense at all if you take them literally. The same will go for other review sites.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/129
i5-2500k ahead of i7-2600k by a few fps, Pentium G850 ahead of i3-2100 by a few fps, difference between Phenom II X6 1100T compared to 1075T vs. X4 980 compared to X4 970, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
