EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 265
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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Buubble
United States191 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
But the radiator and pump still make noise, like Myrm said. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
Why would you spend money on a liquid cooling setup to CrossfireX only 6700s or 6800s? This sounds like a terrible idea... | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On May 12 2011 01:17 skyR wrote: The 20GB SSD is 34nm SLC and it's going to be around $110 =\ 34nm SLC makes sense for use as a write/read cache for long-term use, for pretty much the max durability you'll get. Unlike the hybrid drives like the Momentus XT, I think this may actually be pretty good. Performance characteristics of the 20GB drive seem to be better than most ~64GB MLC drives, not to mention the much higher write durability: edit: before posting all this, I didn't realize there was already an AnandTech review. I was mostly right lol. Details: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/intel-z68-chipset-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching-review/2 + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [benchmark image] + ![[image loading]](http://www.techpowerup.com/img/11-05-09/43c.jpg) I don't think you're going to want another drive if you're using this technology. A big selling point is that you combine this with a mechanical drive and don't have to manage what files will be on what drive, since the combo will share a drive letter. To be honest, SSD micromanaging (by the user) probably costs some people more time than they're saving by having the higher performance. 20GB should be enough to store critical parts of the OS, DLLs, and other parts of applications that may be scattered around need quick accessing. If the correct data gets stored on the flash, I can believe that you will get SSD-like performance for loading stuff (a little worse than a good SSD but closer to an SSD than a fast HDD). The remaining amount of the 20GB should be plenty for write caching, which would make writes all seem fast like they were going to an SSD. Only huge sequential writes may possibly need to bypass the SSD, and those are about as fast on HDDs anyway. Or if all writes go through the SSD, it's not like you're going to be crying about 110 MB/s unless you're used to transferring stuff on RAID arrays. Intel was the first to really make SSDs work, with the X-25M. Since they're handling this logic in their chipsets, I wouldn't be surprised if they could make this hybrid drive idea work too. Hopefully it does. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On May 12 2011 01:21 CrimsnDragn wrote: I was planning on getting double 68xx or 67xx since they're reaching about that time where there will be a big price drop. So if I do get liquid cooling (I"m not exactly sure I understand how it works), it would connect to the cpu and the graphic cards? That means I wont need a cpu fan right, but what about the fans on the graphics cards/psu? Do those still spin? On top of the other things, if your custom water loop leaks over your computer, you'll be sad. On a side note, if you're really going to Crossfire HD 6850s or something, your power consumption under a gaming load is probably going to be low enough that the fan on a Kingwin Lazer Platinum will still not have to start up.  | ||
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SpiffD
Denmark1264 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On May 12 2011 02:52 SpiffD wrote: If building a high end machine would you guys prefer two mid-range cards in crossfire/SLI or one high-end card? The former giving the most value and the latter giving more value when buying another after some period of time. Bad assumption. The former giving the most value for certain games within a certain timeframe, and the latter not being 6 shades of headaches, running cooler, drawing less power, and being quieter. Multi-GPU can be a pure hassle, and in some games is utterly useless, at least without custom profiles, which can take a while to set up and tweak, and generally aren't quite as good as real driver support. Many games never reach optimal scaling where performance will be better than the single card, and even where it does, you have to watch heat more. Some games literally do not scale with multiple GPUs. For the record, I'm using SLI 460s. It works for what I need it to, but there's a lot to it, and a lot of it depends on what games you want to see the improved performance in. Right now, nvidia doesn't have a solid SLI contender unless you already have a single 460 and want to add a second, if you don't have one, a 570 is a better choice for your money. Not sure about AMD, but probably a similar situation. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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thebteam
United States95 Posts
 What I've been looking at so far CPU: Intel i5-2400 - $189 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074 Motherboard: ASRock H61ICAFE LGA 1155 Intel H61 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - $84 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157246 RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) - $46 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231275 Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D - $54 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371034 HDD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - $65 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185 Case: Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $59 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 Optical Drive: ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner - $20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204 OS: Windows 7 - $99 GPU: ? suggestions, please Monitor: ? suggestions, please What is your budget? $1000, give or take, willing to go over if it is worth it. What is your resolution? Don't have a monitor picked out quite yet, would like some suggestions, but leaning towards 1900X1200 What are you using it for? Starcraft 2, maybe some other games, and general everyday use What is your upgrade cycle? 3 years or so, not too worried about future proofing When do you plan on building it? Soon, over the next week or so Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No, not necessary Where are you buying your parts from? Ordering parts from Newegg and Amazon | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
Get the Antec One Hundred for $55 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129098 ) instead. It's basically a new revision of the Three Hundred but less expensive. Power supply is overpriced. Get a XFX Core Edition 450w for $55 ($45 after mail in rebate) instead: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207012 Memory is unnecessary money wasted, there is a very minor performance difference between different timings and frequencies as seen here: http://techreport.com/articles.x/20377 There's a sale for GSkill Ripjaws 2x2GB 1600MHz atm for $40: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277 If it ends before you make your purchase, just get regular 2x2GB 1333MHz for $40: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231253 Less expensive motherboard that still comes with SATA3 and USB3: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157236 Gigabyte Radeon HD6850 OC for $170 ($160 after mail in rebate): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125353 or the Sapphire Radeon Xtreme HD5850 for $150 from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004W75ATI/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1305137653&sr=8-1&condition=new Note that the 5850 offers better performance than the 6850. @SpiffD If you're even contemplating putting together a multi-GPU setup with mid-range cards, I would not even consider your system to be "high-end." SLI / CrossfireX is a waste of money if you are not doing it right off the bat or shortly after as already mentioned. It's a terrible upgrade path because honestly do you think that in three years time, there won't be a graphics card that is less expensive and outperforms the cost of your multi-GPU setup? Take a look at history... GTX 280 was released three years ago, a SLI configuration is approximately $1200 worth. Today we have a GTX 570 for $350 that is on par with GTX 280 SLI. | ||
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SpiffD
Denmark1264 Posts
@JingleHell: What about the high-end cards with two GPUs on one board. Don't they suffer the save problems as two single-GPU cards in crossfire/SLI? To be more specific I was looking at TomsHardware's "Best Graphics Cards For The Money: May 2011" (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card-game-performance-radeon-hd-6670,2935.html) and I thought I should either get 2x 6950 (2gb) in Crossfire or 1x 6990. The upgrade path from the single card might be better but it is also USD $153 more expensive than the two 6950s (in my region). Is it worth it? I only play at 1920x1200 but I consider buying a bigger screen/TV with higher resolutions possible. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On May 12 2011 03:42 SpiffD wrote: Thank you all for the responses. It certainly gave me some perspective. @JingleHell: What about the high-end cards with two GPUs on one board. Don't they suffer the save problems as two single-GPU cards in crossfire/SLI? To be more specific I was looking at TomsHardware's "Best Graphics Cards For The Money: May 2011" (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card-game-performance-radeon-hd-6670,2935.html) and I thought I should either get 2x 6950 (2gb) in Crossfire or 1x 6990. The upgrade path from the single card might be better but it is also USD $153 more expensive than the two 6950s (in my region). Is it worth it? I only play at 1920x1200 but I consider buying a bigger screen/TV with higher resolutions possible. I'm not entirely sure about the cards with multiple GPUs on a single board, haven't used one, or done much research on them, as my wife would beat me over the head with a tire iron if I even mentioned one, at the prices they run. I won't discuss upgrade path, personally, as that gets a little convoluted, but basically, SLI/Crossfire is a huge headache, and again, game and driver dependent. Your best bet is to look for benchmarks of scaling for the specific games you want info on, and the specific cards you're looking at, and see if it scales. Just bear in mind, multiple high end cards right now is a waste for almost everything, since nobody makes PC crushing exclusive titles anymore, unless you count a game being engineered to not work with a company's drivers, like DA2 at release with Nvidia. Multiple mid-line cards can be a good choice, but only if at least one is purchased prior to the next line's release. Basically, getting into multi-GPU requires a ton of research that's too specific to your case for me to be able to give you good general advice beyond all that. That's why the default answer people tend to give around here is "Don't". If someone doesn't have specific reasoning for it, based on their exact known needs, it's probably a terrible idea for them. | ||
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SpiffD
Denmark1264 Posts
On May 12 2011 04:03 JingleHell wrote: I'm not entirely sure about the cards with multiple GPUs on a single board, haven't used one, or done much research on them, as my wife would beat me over the head with a tire iron if I even mentioned one, at the prices they run. I won't discuss upgrade path, personally, as that gets a little convoluted, but basically, SLI/Crossfire is a huge headache, and again, game and driver dependent. Your best bet is to look for benchmarks of scaling for the specific games you want info on, and the specific cards you're looking at, and see if it scales. Just bear in mind, multiple high end cards right now is a waste for almost everything, since nobody makes PC crushing exclusive titles anymore, unless you count a game being engineered to not work with a company's drivers, like DA2 at release with Nvidia. Multiple mid-line cards can be a good choice, but only if at least one is purchased prior to the next line's release. Basically, getting into multi-GPU requires a ton of research that's too specific to your case for me to be able to give you good general advice beyond all that. That's why the default answer people tend to give around here is "Don't". If someone doesn't have specific reasoning for it, based on their exact known needs, it's probably a terrible idea for them. Thanks, I appreciate the advice | ||
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AngryNarwhal_111
United States51 Posts
Edit: forgot I'll need to buy a new iPod soon, so it brings my budget down from $925-$975 down to $850-$900 range. What is your resolution? 1920x1080 I believe, I recently bought an awesome monitor. What are you using it for? Gaming, SC2, WoW, hopefully other games like Portal 2 and Diablo 3 when it comes out. Might be doing Guild Wars 2 as well. And of course internet browsing and the like. Don't plan on streaming. What is your upgrade cycle? Hmm... well honestly I don't really know, 2+ years definitely. I plan on using this computer throughout college and I'm a junior in high school, so I need it to last a while. I can probably update some of the cheaper things as necessary, but having to buy a $300 graphics card a year or two from now will not work. When do you plan on building it? When I get out of school on June 10 I plan on ordering the parts immediately. Do you plan on overclocking? I don't really know how it works but if it makes my computer run better and I don't need to spend all that much extra on heatsinks I'm down. Do you need an Operating System? Yes. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Nope. Where are you buying your parts from? Newegg/Amazon, whichever provides the better deal. Currently with Newegg's 2-day free shipping deal I plan on buying from them. As an aside, I've been looking into both the Antec 300 illusion and the Antec 902 v3 cases and love 'em both, if it's possible to fit them in that would be preferred over a "standard", drab-looking case. However if it'll greatly increase the performance of the computer to buy a cheaper case and spend more on a CPU or graphics card, I'll happily do that as well. Thanks in advance! -AN | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
An configuration capable of overclocking comes to $1045. If you decide that overclocking isn't worth the premium, you could switch to a core i5 2400 and a H61 which would bring the total to $950. All prices are before mail in rebates. You can see the difference in performance for various clock speeds for the core i5 2500k listed here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-2600k-990x_9.html#sect2 Intel Core i5 2500k & Gigabyte P67 UD3 Combo @ $335 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.642509 + Show Spoiler + Intel Core i5 2400 @ $190 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074 Asrock H61M U3S3 @ $80 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157236 Mushkin 2x4GB 1333MHz @ $70 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226095 MSI GTX 560 Twin Frozr II @ $250 ($230 after mail in rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127565 Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB @ $65 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185 XFX Core Edition 450w @ $55 ($45 after mail in rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207012 Antec Nine Hundred Two V3 @ $120 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129097 DVD Drive @ $20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204 XIGMATEK Gaia @ $30 **only get this if you are getting the core i5 2500k & p67 to overclock http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233082 Windows 7 Home Premium x64 @ $100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986 | ||
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AngryNarwhal_111
United States51 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146058 If you take that or maybe the Antec 300 Illusion (an older model) with the i5-2400 / H61 / stock heatsink option, that will be in the $850-900 range. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
If you're looking at lowering the total, you could go for the other case you mentioned, the Antec Three Hundred Illusion for $70: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066 You could step down to 2x2GB of memory for $40: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231253 This would take $80 off the total, making the overclockable configuration (2500k & p67) be $965 and the non-overclocking configuration (i5 2400 & h61) be $870. Furthermore, you could step down to a Radeon 5850, 6850, 6870, or GTX 460 to shave another ~$50+ off the total. | ||
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AngryNarwhal_111
United States51 Posts
Thanks very much! I think i'll step the memory down and maybe the graphics card, I'm kinda set on this case... is that a foolish thing, to spend that much on a case with my budget? I'm new to computer building =/ Edit: I managed to bring it down to $960 by replacing the graphics card with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102908, does anyone have any experience with this card? | ||
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