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On March 31 2013 10:01 Craton wrote:
If you get one SSD you want it to be your boot drive, so Windows is going to end up taking ~25GB. Additionally, SSDs want to have a decent amount of free space to maximize their TRIM effectiveness. That basically leaves you with not a whole lot of room for games. A 64GB is about $64, whereas you can get a 128GB for around $100. If you do opt for an SSD, I'd say go at least for a 120/128.
I reckon the 3570K with a medium OC (with probably the Hyper 212 heatsink) is a good choice for you, though I'm not sure how the budget will work out if you're also getting a monitor, windows, and probably a new PSU (do you need a new one?)
You'll need to lock down how much money you need to devote to windows. Information on the kinds of games you play would also be helpful to determine what GPU you need.
Also keep in mind the Intel's next line of chips comes out in about 2 months, so you may want to wait.
Not a ton of games. Mostly play sc2, LoL, WoW, Dota, and the occasional other game.
As I look I realise a SSD probably isnt going to happen at this budget. Might pick one up in a couple months or something
Edit: A friend has an copy that he never activated. He downloaded it free at one point and never actually installed it. Says the product Key is good until 2014! Windows 7.
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WoW and SC2 are both much more CPU bound. I don't think League or DotA are very GPU demanding, either.
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On March 31 2013 06:50 screamingpalm wrote:
Quick question(s); would it be worthwhile to upgrade my amd X3 450? Maybe to a phenom x4 or x6? I figure since I'm installing a new cooler, might as well upgrade now if it's worth it.
Also, what's the verdict on the piledriver that I had read was supposed to be out now (FX series?)?
If and ONLY IF you are willing to do CPU-NB overclocking - well you could pass the time with a used Thuban  Otherwise, don't touch any either BD 1st or 2nd gen stuff (PileDrive). It's only with Steamroller (3rd iteration) that AMD is finally increasing IPC for the BD-generation chips; and desktop derivatives won't even be out until 2014 soooo yeah AMD is taking their sweet time getting to anything that would be relevant for our purposes. Anyway, more information is here if you want to read further: http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/6/analysis-amd-kaveri-apu-and-steamroller-core-architectural-enhancements-unveiled.aspx Anyways, the efficacy of these tweaks remains to be seen.
+ Show Spoiler +The document lists the following changes to improve instructions per clock (IPC):
▪ Store to load forwarding optimization
▪ Dispatch and retire up to 2 stores per cycle
▪ Improved memfile, from last 3 stores to last 8 stores, and allow tracking of dependent stack operations.
▪ Load queue (LDQ) size increased to 48, from 44.
▪ Store queue (STQ) size increased to 32, from 24.
▪ Increase dispatch bandwidth to 8 INT ops per cycle (4 to each core), from 4 INT ops per cycle (4 to just 1 core). 4 ops per cycle per core remains unchanged.
▪ Accelerate SYSCALL/SYSRET.
▪ Increased L2 BTB size from 5K to 10K and from 8 to 16 banks.
▪ Improved loop prediction.
▪ Increase PFB from 8 to 16 entries; the 8 additional entries can be used either for prefetch or as a loop buffer.
▪ Increase snoop tag throughput.
▪ Change from 4 to 3 FP pipe stages.
And after the JF-AMD debacle (and that XS poster OCing with one core lmao), I would be extremely conservative on estimating AMD performance these days.
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On March 31 2013 06:50 screamingpalm wrote:
Quick question(s); would it be worthwhile to upgrade my amd X3 450? Maybe to a phenom x4 or x6? I figure since I'm installing a new cooler, might as well upgrade now if it's worth it.
Also, what's the verdict on the piledriver that I had read was supposed to be out now (FX series?)?
I actually did this exact upgrade. Like with everything, it depends on your needs, and prices, and if you have a decent motherboard.
Why are you installing a new cooler, which one, have you bought it already?
It's not really worth upgrading from athlon to phenom x4 unless you are an overclocker (and your current athlon can't overclock), and/or you find your phenom for bargain bin prices.
Litearlly, the athlon ii x3 450 is a phenom x4, it's the exact same CPU, just the level 3 cache and 4th core is disabled. If you have a half decent motherboard (really, a $30 motherboard brand new 3 years ago could do it), you can unlock your athlon II x4 to a quadcore (that, or get a guaranteed 3.8ghz+ overclock on it), possibly unlock the level 3 cache (so it's the exact same as a phenom), and overclock it to a pretty decent level (3.8ghz+).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Phenom_microprocessors
Now, if you don't have a decent motherboard that can unlock your athlon ii x3 to a quadcore, chances are that your motherboard won't be good enough to overclock a phenom x4 and make it worth buying (because putting money towards a brand new motherboard just to upgrade from athlon to phenom is a huge waste of money).
We are talking about a very small upgrade here - it's only worth it if you can find a Phenom X4 for under, eh, I'd say $50-80 depending on how bad your current athlon is (a lot of athlons are just seriously fucked up phenoms that could never be sold as phenoms).
It also depends on your needs. If you stream then go for it, if all you do is just play sc2 then no, it's not necessary.
X6 is almost always a huge waste of money (it has gone on sale for $80 a few times, though i think they were rather questionable phenoms, ie locked, low frequency so you'd need a really high end motherboard to reach the FSB speeds necessary).
Piledriver is actually a decent chip, a pretty big jump from the fail of bulldozer, but for gaming, general usage, and overclocking, it's actually a piece of crap (there's a few, heavily multi-threaded games like BF3 and Crysis where it's competitive, just not better and it's more of a very close tie per value vs the i5/i7, and that's only at stock since piledriver doesn't overclock as well). It's really only good for niche uses on a very intensive, professional application (ie FX is better in some professional level program, but it'd only make a difference when value is a huge concern, ie like a business or academia, and you are using such programs at such an intensity that it matters, as most users will come nowhere close to utilizing the full power of either i5 or fx on mutilthreaded applications).
In every aspect besides performance though, piledriver is way worse than IB (it's 32nm vs 22nm, that's literally like buying a 2010 car instead of a 2013 car when they are the same price). Power consumption, super i/o, imc....
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On March 31 2013 13:55 Belial88 wrote:
Why are you installing a new cooler, which one, have you bought it already?
Overheating issues- now deteriorating to where I can't play any games at all without shutting down (used to be only Civ V that did that). BIOS reads my cpu temp as ~55C, and 80C after shutting down. Went with the CM Hyper 212 evo, not looking forward to installing it though lol.
Thanks again for the replies, will stay with my current cpu then. Only thing that would really suck is if the cpu is damaged and I end up having to do it all over again. :D
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Lol just take your time. Every install adds experience - it'll get easier.
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Heatsink installations are just annoying, not hard. I find the paste cleaning process really tedious. All you gotta do is just remove the existing one, clean off the heatsink with qtips dipped in high concentration rubbing alcohol, then once it's pretty much all gone do some more wipes with lint free cloth to remove any leftover bits from the qtips and get the final polish. It doesn't need to be perfect, but you want to get as much as you can. I usually give 15 minutes for the alcohol to dey, even though 99% only really needs like 30 seconds.
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I am looking to get a custom gaming pc. I have looked into several different options, primarily ordering parts and building it myself, using a website to select parts and have it built for me, or using something like a barebones kit to make assembly easier. I am looking to get the most bang for my buck with a budget around $600-700.
I am aware of the different websites, tigerdirect.com, newegg.com, ibuypower.com, cyberpowerpc.com, and I have also looked at computerlx.com.
Computerlx seems to have the most competitive prices for building the pc for me, but I wanted to get the TL opinion on how you guys put together your PCs and what your opinions are on the different methods of custom pc building.
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On March 31 2013 09:34 feanor1 wrote:What is your budget?$750-$800 + Show Spoiler +
What is your resolution?
Buying a monitor with it, looking at 1920x1080
What are you using it for?
Mostly gaming
What is your upgrade cycle?
Definitely on the longer end probably 4 years.
When do you plan on building it?
Looking at ordering within the next week
Do you plan on overclocking?
I would like the have the ability to overclock, not necessarily going to right away.
Do you need an Operating System?
Will need to get a copy of Windows, somehow. Not sure if I can use a student discount or call in and claim my harddrive went kaboom.
Edit: A friend has an copy that he never activated. He downloaded it free at one point and never actually installed it. Says the product Key is good until 2014! Windows 7.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No
Where are you buying your parts from?
Newegg/TigerDirect/Amazon. I have had great experience with Newegg so I like them.
I am kinda interested in throwing a small SSD in there to load games off of like 64 gigs if i can swing it!
First, monitor.
The BenQ gw2450 is a quality 24" 1920x1080 screen for $170. You could get a cheaper screen of about the same size for about $50 less, but it would just be your average meh TN panel. The BenQ should have good input lag & contrast. Note there's also a BenQ gw2450hm at us.ncix.com for $75 I think the difference is that the gw2450 has only VGA & DVI connections, while the hm version also has HDMI.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014299
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=69380&vpn=GW2450HM&manufacture=BenQ&promoid=1345
Now, the rest:
Intel i5-3350P ($180) The P means no integrated graphics
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116782
MSI H61 mobo ($47)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130659
EVGA GTX 660 ($200)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130826
2x4gb G.Skill RAM ($57)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=57953&vpn=F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL&manufacture=G.Skill
Bit Fenix Merc Beta ($30) A cheap case that's not horrible. Another good option (mATX only) is the Fractal Design Core 1000
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=81659&vpn=BFC-MRC-100-KKX2-U3&manufacture=BitFenix&promoid=1334
Seagate 1tb HDD ($60)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=58746&vpn=ST31000524AS&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1334
PSU: Rosewill Green 430w ($50)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202
Samusng DVD-burner ($18)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151256
Total: $812, not including windows. Rebates not taken into account. And this setup cannot overclock (I don't think overclocking makes sense at your budget). And no SSD. But you do get a good Intel quad-core, a quality 24" monitor and a GPU capable of making it look good. There are a variety of options for re-configuring, depending on your more detailed needs. For instance, you could get a cheapass monitor and drop the GPU a bit to get an overclockable configuration - but I wouldn't recommend it. You could also drop down to a quad-core in order to get an even better GPU (Pentium g2120 & GTX 7870 LE), but I wouldn't recommend it. Though come to think of it that would put you just in budget, so meh:
Pentium g2120 ($80)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116777
This is a simple dual-core.
PowerCooler 7870 LE ($249)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131487
Total with those replacements: $761.
Edit: Be aware specials generally change about the middle of the week, not that there are a ton of them above.
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On April 01 2013 04:16 Stefanovich wrote:
I am looking to get a custom gaming pc. I have looked into several different options, primarily ordering parts and building it myself, using a website to select parts and have it built for me, or using something like a barebones kit to make assembly easier. I am looking to get the most bang for my buck with a budget around $600-700.
I am aware of the different websites, tigerdirect.com, newegg.com, ibuypower.com, cyberpowerpc.com, and I have also looked at computerlx.com.
Computerlx seems to have the most competitive prices for building the pc for me, but I wanted to get the TL opinion on how you guys put together your PCs and what your opinions are on the different methods of custom pc building.
what parts are best for you depends on what you're doing with the computer & what your monitor's resolution is. Or if you need to add on things like an OS or an monitor. Basically, we can't tell you what to do when you don't ANSWER THE QUESTIONNAIRE IN THE OP.
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On April 01 2013 05:25 MisterFred wrote:The BenQ gw2450 is a quality 24" 1920x1080 screen for $170. You could get a cheaper screen of about the same size for about $50 less, but it would just be your average meh TN panel. The BenQ should have good input lag & contrast. Note there's also a BenQ gw2450hm at us.ncix.com for $75 I think the difference is that the gw2450 has only VGA & DVI connections, while the hm version also has HDMI. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014299
No HDMI and also no AMA (overdrive) setting. Says "AMA (for models with HDMI inputs)".
http://www.manualowl.com/m/BenQ/GW2450/Manual/271653
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So the gw2450hm is to be preferred then?
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Hey what would you do if you still had $750, but didn't need to budget a monitor in it? I guess I really want to try and squeeze a i5-3570k in there if it is possible without skimping to much somewhere else
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Thanks for the monitor info, Myrmidon.
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Hi everyone. I would really appreciate anyone's help on building a new pc for Starcraft 2 HOTS. I used to play WoL on a really old laptop onlowest settings possible and managed to make it to grand master league but I had to quit after a while cuz my laptop simply wasn't enough for me to compete against some of the best players on ladder. It was getting really frustrating and my laptop was overheating like crazy. So after giving up on SC2 and not playing for almost two years, I really wanted to give HOTS a try on max settings and see if I can get to higher levels this time. I'd really appreciate any recommendations. Here are the specifics:
What is your budget?
$200-$400. I realize this is like the lowest budget I could find on this thread but I read on belial88's post somewhere that SC2 is not a very demanding game and I should be able to play at max settings for $200 to $300 if I choose the parts wisely. Now if playing HOTS at max settings is impossible at that budget, I'd like to know what the highest settings I can play HOTS is at that budget, without having to worry about fps and overheating of course.
What is your resolution?
1920x1080p
What are you using it for?
SC2 HOTS and SC2 HOTS only. I'm literally getting this PC just to be able to play HOTS, so I really don't need an optical drive or a big hard drive or a big RAM as a matter of fact. I want to be able to play multiplayer without ever having to worry about fraps or overheating. It'd be nice to have everything set at max but if that's not possible with this budget, I'd be fine with settings that are a little bit short of that.
What is your upgrade cycle?
This is like the first PC I'm getting in 10 years. I probably won't upgrade until Legacy of the Void comes out, if necessary of course. SC2 is the only game I play.
When do you plan on building it?
Within the next month.
Do you plan on overclocking?
Probably not possible with this budget, so no.
Do you need an Operating System?
No, I have a copy of windows 8 and 7
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Nope, not possible with this budget anyway.
Where are you buying your parts from?
I live in Toronto, Canada. I'm guessing newegg.ca or tigerdirect.ca would be my best choice. But If anyone has suggestions with better websites with better deals, that would be wonderful as well.
I'm really poor and very tight on $$ but I really want to be able to play HOTS and not lose games cuz of 20fps (during big battles) at lowest settings ever again. So please, genius pc builders out there, give me some suggestions and thank you so much for your help!
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A workable build for that kind of money is not really possible without scrounging around used markets and so on (well, not really for closer to $400), so just be warned. Even with an unlimited budget it's not possible with currently-available hardware to get close to 60 fps solid even in 1v1. Turning up graphics-related settings is just going to exacerbate things.
Overheating is pretty much not a concern for any desktop build unless you're packing multiple graphics cards or are really abusing a generic OEM case or equivalent with high-end hardware it was never intended to house, heatsinks are dusty or otherwise falling off or not in working order, and/or you're overclocking significantly.
SC2 is not a demanding game compared to most others on the GPU (even more so if you're talking screen resolutions much lower than 1080p like Belial is), but that's not true for the CPU.
Just as a reference, what were the specs of the laptop?
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
Belial got a 3770k, nh-d14, gtx460, good z77 board, case, psu and god knows what else for half the price you'd pay even on the US market for normal, new parts, so dont expect a miracle. I mean seriously, try to build that kind of system. The motherboard and CPU ALONE go over his entire $500 system budget on newegg - it's only possible to get anywhere close to that low budget if half of your parts are used and the rest are methodically picked out and played around with microcenter deals to sneak $50 off when you technically should not be allowed to etc. You cant get far over 20fps minimums without a second/third gen i5 build (3570k is just about reaching 30fps depending on how stressful the test is) so it's a waste to even try anything below $600 or so unless you are Belial88 aka Macgyver
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On April 01 2013 15:35 Cyro wrote:
Belial got a 3770k, nh-d14, gtx460, good z77 board, case, psu and god knows what else for half the price you'd pay even on the US market for normal, new parts, so dont expect a miracle. I mean seriously, try to build that kind of system. The motherboard and CPU ALONE go over his entire $500 system budget on newegg - it's only possible to get anywhere close to that low budget if half of your parts are used and the rest are methodically picked out and played around with microcenter deals to sneak $50 off when you technically should not be allowed to etc. You cant get far over 20fps minimums without a second/third gen i5 build (3570k is just about reaching 30fps depending on how stressful the test is) so it's a waste to even try anything below $600 or so unless you are Belial88 aka Macgyver
Thanks for the reply. Looks like I was getting too excited over something not possible... Do you think it's possible to run it on max settings on a $500-$650 budget then?
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EPT
