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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
On December 28 2012 06:58 TinyDino wrote:Hello, fellow Team Liquidians! I was hoping you could help me with building a desktop and give feedback on my currently selected parts. I've used some recent advice posts as guidelines, while trying to keep my budget in mind. Without further ado: The basic info requested per OP, spoilered to make this post shorter: + Show Spoiler +What is your budget? ~1000 - 1150 Euros (= ~1300 - 1500$) Budget includes monitor. What is your resolution? 1920x1080 What are you using it for? Gaming mostly, as well as Photoshop on a starting hobbyist level. What is your upgrade cycle? 2+ years (Hopefully closer to 3-4 years) When do you plan on building it? During January. Not sure if after Christmas sales will drop the prices in the next week or two, but if not, I could build it immediately. Do you plan on overclocking? I’d rather not due to my noob-ishness, but if the benefits are worth the effort, I could consider it. Do you need an Operating System? Nope. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Nope. Where are you buying your parts from? I’m living in the UK, so any web store that delivers to UK addresses. In my build so far, I’ve utilized www.hardwareversand.de . Other options are www.amazon.de and www.amazon.co.uk , as well as www.pixmania.com . Additional notes:1. I am going to buy a monitor as well. The one I’ve had in mind are Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM (199 euros at hardwareversand.de), and from reading the TL Monitor Thread it seems to be quite a good monitor price-to-quality wise. Feedback appreciated. 2. I’d like to get an SSD for the OS and some games, but which one and how large (128? 256?) I have no clue. : Motherboard: ASRock H77M Socket 1155, mATX @ 67.19€ LinkCPU: Intel Core i5-3570 Box, LGA 1155 @ 186.42€ LinkRAM: 8GB-Kit Kingston HyperX blu black @ 39.65€ LinkGPU: MSI Radeon HD7870 2GB @ 211.41€ LinkPSU: Super-Flower SF450P14XE Golden Green Pro 80plus gold @ 63.98€ LinkHDD: WD Scorpio Black 500GB 7200rpm @ 61.26€ LinkSSD: No idea. Big enough for the OS and some programs DVD-Player: Asus DRW-24B5ST bare @ 20.88€ LinkCase: Cooler Master HAF 912 @ 69.41€ LinkMonitor: Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM @ 199€ LinkTotal: 936€ (+13€ Postage) So there it is, with currently some room in the budget for an SSD and/or upgrades, but if there is a component that does the same job but cheaper/more efficiently, do tell. All feedback is welcome and appreciated. And thank you in advance!
I dont see any major eyesores here. Optical drive seems a bit much but I dont know the european market as well but thats only a few bucks anyway. Everything on the list is something we have recommended before I believe.
All in all looks like safe buys unless someone has better regional information.
EDIT: Case seems a bit overpriced if my conversion is correct. I guess a Xeon is an option as well now that Im looking at it.
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On December 28 2012 06:42 Medrea wrote:
That case is a tad expensive considering your needs are very low.
8gb is more than enough. Having too much RAM does nothing bad but doesnt net you any gain either. That and RAM is cheap so if you find you need more, adding it is easy.
If you really want that case, go for it, but you will prob have to pull from somewhere.
AMD has better prices at most price ranges. You would have to check for individual games that you play.
Like what games do you play?
also need os?
I mostly play starcraft2/ dota2. But i usually play the new games that come out. I am currently playing a lot of borderlands2 atm. But starcraft and starcraft streaming would be my main priority.
I had a lot of money saved for that case though. I just like it ahaha is all. What do you mean "pull from somewhere"???
EDIT: Nope, dont need OS, i got connections.
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Well we often recommend cases for under $60 but yours is twice the cost. But looks is looks I suppose.
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Also, what is the difference between the Z77 and the H77?
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Z allows for overclocking while H77 does not.
Hence, unlocked processors go with unlocked boards while locked processors go with locked boards.
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On December 28 2012 07:16 Medrea wrote:
Z allows for overclocking while H77 does not.
Hence, unlocked processors go with unlocked boards while locked processors go with locked boards.
I thought it was something like that, thanks.
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On December 28 2012 07:01 Medrea wrote:( On December 28 2012 06:58 TinyDino wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hello, fellow Team Liquidians! I was hoping you could help me with building a desktop and give feedback on my currently selected parts. I've used some recent advice posts as guidelines, while trying to keep my budget in mind. Without further ado: The basic info requested per OP, spoilered to make this post shorter: + Show Spoiler +What is your budget? ~1000 - 1150 Euros (= ~1300 - 1500$) Budget includes monitor. What is your resolution? 1920x1080 What are you using it for? Gaming mostly, as well as Photoshop on a starting hobbyist level. What is your upgrade cycle? 2+ years (Hopefully closer to 3-4 years) When do you plan on building it? During January. Not sure if after Christmas sales will drop the prices in the next week or two, but if not, I could build it immediately. Do you plan on overclocking? I’d rather not due to my noob-ishness, but if the benefits are worth the effort, I could consider it. Do you need an Operating System? Nope. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Nope. Where are you buying your parts from? I’m living in the UK, so any web store that delivers to UK addresses. In my build so far, I’ve utilized www.hardwareversand.de . Other options are www.amazon.de and www.amazon.co.uk , as well as www.pixmania.com . Additional notes:1. I am going to buy a monitor as well. The one I’ve had in mind are Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM (199 euros at hardwareversand.de), and from reading the TL Monitor Thread it seems to be quite a good monitor price-to-quality wise. Feedback appreciated. 2. I’d like to get an SSD for the OS and some games, but which one and how large (128? 256?) I have no clue. : Motherboard: ASRock H77M Socket 1155, mATX @ 67.19€ LinkCPU: Intel Core i5-3570 Box, LGA 1155 @ 186.42€ LinkRAM: 8GB-Kit Kingston HyperX blu black @ 39.65€ LinkGPU: MSI Radeon HD7870 2GB @ 211.41€ LinkPSU: Super-Flower SF450P14XE Golden Green Pro 80plus gold @ 63.98€ LinkHDD: WD Scorpio Black 500GB 7200rpm @ 61.26€ LinkSSD: No idea. Big enough for the OS and some programs DVD-Player: Asus DRW-24B5ST bare @ 20.88€ LinkCase: Cooler Master HAF 912 @ 69.41€ LinkMonitor: Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM @ 199€ LinkTotal: 936€ (+13€ Postage) So there it is, with currently some room in the budget for an SSD and/or upgrades, but if there is a component that does the same job but cheaper/more efficiently, do tell. All feedback is welcome and appreciated. And thank you in advance! ) I dont see any major eyesores here. Optical drive seems a bit much but I dont know the european market as well but thats only a few bucks anyway. Everything on the list is something we have recommended before I believe. All in all looks like safe buys unless someone has better regional information. EDIT: Case seems a bit overpriced if my conversion is correct. I guess a Xeon is an option as well now that Im looking at it.
Thanks for the really fast reply! Now that you mention it, the case costs like twice what it does in the US..Yet that's the cheapest I have found so far in Europe. Damn. Oh, and sorry but I don't understand what you mean with a Xeon? As in I should get one instead of i5?
Is either of these alternatives any more reasonable in quality and price? The looks are secondary to me as long as it isn't absolutely god ugly (in other words, virtually anything works.)
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition @ 37.59€Link
Cooler Master Elite 431 Plus @ 49.71€ Link
Once I get the case sorted, it seems that I've gotten the blessing to go ahead with my purchase. But I am clueless as to which SSD would suit my needs the best. I think 120GB is more than big enough, so how are these SSDs?
- Intel SSD 330 Series 120GB, SATA 6Gb/s (94.99€)
- Intel SSD 520Series 120GB bulk (104.44€)
- Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB SATA 6Gb's (112.96€)
- Corsair Neutron GTX SSD 120GB SATA 3 (127.04€)
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Yeah one Xeon is an i7 without the ability to overclock.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117286
Its basically a good middle processor for people who like hyperthreading but dont want to pony up the full amount.
$200 and then a $300 can be a big jump. So there is that. Plus you get to tell people about how you have a Xeon.
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Hey guys, looking to grab a new computer for this year and am looking for some advice on compatible parts/deals
HDDs on my old one failed and most of the components are too small[case and PSU]or old and insufficient[GPU, motherboard]
What is your budget?
400-600
What is your resolution?
1920x1200
What are you using it for?
Gaming. Ability to stream would be cool but not essential
What is your upgrade cycle?
2 years
When do you plan on building it?
This week
Do you plan on overclocking?
I am interested in this. I have a Intel Core i7-920 Processor (8M Cache, 2.66 GHz, 4.80 GT/s Intel® QPI) from my old computer, which is about 4-5 years old. I thought it might still be a pretty good chip though. So maybe with overclocking it can be good enough that I don't need a new CPU?
Do you need an Operating System?
Probably
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Yes, I would like to get one decent card(7870?) and then grab another of the same in the future. Can you crossfire two different cards?
Where are you buying your parts from?
Newegg probably, Though There are nearby canada computers and tiger direct. Living in Toronto, Canada
Don't need a monitor.
I also have an optical drive that I can use from old comp, any reason to get a new one?. Probably need everything other than the an optical drive/CPU. Also, An SSD would be nice if I could fit it in. I think I need the most advice on MOBOs, PSUs and Cases.
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If you're going to reuse the processor (very highly recommended, given your budget), you're going to need a compatible motherboard, as in a socket 1366 model—these aren't sold anymore, are hard to find, and used to be expensive. Newer motherboards are for sockets that aren't compatible with the old processor, but it's not like they have any performance advantages, and they probably don't have features you're dying to have. No reason to get a new one. Reuse the old RAM too, the optical drive as well.
So new case, power supply, video card, hard drive.
You're near which Canadacomputers location? Might be better to just pick up in person, maybe browse around for cases.
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On December 28 2012 09:43 Jotunn wrote:
Yes, I would like to get one decent card(7870?) and then grab another of the same in the future. Can you crossfire two different cards?
We never recommend sli/crossfire for non-flagship models for a number of reasons:
1) You need a motherboard that is certified for sli/cfx, which cuts down on selection, especially for the cheaper variants that are more than adequate for 90% of the builds we give.
2) You need to spend more on the PSU.
3) You need to have decent airflow, which is not really possible to explain, as it varies from case to case.
4) Games don't support cfx/sli properly initially, sometimes taking a month before the scaling is half decent, even a year before it's ironed out.
5) It's not actually cost/time effective.
6) If you buy in the future, old generation cards are almost always a bad deal, so it's better to replace entirely.
Just something to keep in mind.
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I'll be blunt: an alternative is that you can not force your financial situation on every single person on the world. Perhaps people like to maintain high and stable framerates while keeping high quality settings.
Sure, but the ivy bridge requires delidding to be better than sandy bridge, plain and simple. It's not a matter of budget, there's just no reason to buy ivy bridge (unless you wont overclock at all, in which case non-k edition is what your going for) over sandy bridge.
And your comment is a bit extremist, I feel. Sandy bridge is going to maintain high and stable framerates perfectly well. Also, an i5-2500k is going to overclock further than a non-delidded ivy bridge pushed to the limit, so unless you delid, your gonna get the exact same performance, if not more, on i5-2500k than 3570k.
$40 price difference? On Newegg I see like $10 difference. On Amazon, I see the same $10 difference. No, I am not going to bring the second hand market into account. If we're too pussy to buy second hand processors, that we know nothing about, that's fine. You're welcome to go to a better forum where pussies are less likely to exist.
You also seem to think that Ivy Bridge is the same as Sandy Bridge. I mean let's forget that there is an actual IPC difference between Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge, Sandy Bridge gets higher clock speeds!
yea on newegg they are actually the exact same price. IVB seems to be on sale while the sb isn't. Well, z77 is expensive, so there's no reason to buy z77, first off, it just has no benefits over z68 except out of box bios support, a very easy problem to fix, and something you can easily deal with if your gonna be able to pocket $40+.
You gotta delid the 3570k for it to be better than the 2500k. Otherwise the high temps of the ivb ihs is going to make it clock worse than sb, enough so that the chips, at best, are going to be equal (on average, obviously a golden 3570k vs shitty 2500k will be different, but that's silicon lottery and going by averages...).
A $30-70 (based on performance and features) motherboard p67/z68 is going to be comparable to a $90-250 z77. Even with SB being the same price as IB, any price gap I dont think it's worth it, unless your willing to delid or at least consider delidding in the future.
Or you can just get a Z77 motherboard and not screw around with anything. Next time you're going to tell me that its smart to go into your speakers and change their crossovers/drivers/tweeters to save a few bucks.
But IVB, clock for clock, is 5-8% better than SB at best. Given that a non-delidded i5 3570k will clock, on average, about 200-400mhz worse than a comparably binned i5-2500k, there's no reason to spend the price premium on 3570k, even if the price premium is only in the motherboard. SB just runs cooler than a non-delidded IB.
It's not 'saving a few bucks'. Your talking $50-70 for a z68, that's comparable in features and performance to a $200 z77. That's a lot more than 'saving a few bucks'. Or, you can look at it is pay $70 for the best in class performance and sli and features, or $100 for a z77 that is bare in features and can barely do the job. No sli support, few ports, low bandwidth. Granted, things like sli support and such isn't necessary, but your looking at the pro3 just for neutered offset voltage increase only, while $50-70 for z68 will get you both offest and vid control, sli support, multiple 3.0 lanes, etc.
I think just for $50, for most people, it's worth figuring out the out of box problem on your own. Get a friend or local store to flash the bios with their SB chip, buy a $40 sandy bridge and return it (or sell it used, or throw it in the trash can even).
Or, just buy a locked IB and cheapest z77 possible, in that case, i'd recommend z77 (or anything, i woudlnt even call it a recommendation, just that anything works), and go on with your day.
i5-3570k is an enthusiast chip. It's not meant for everyone. if you aren't going to take advantage of it's features, then it's not worth the price premium. Buying a 3570k and not overclocked it, and buying a z77 board, is a huge price premium for what? Maybe 200mhz, stock, over a locked SB (or IB for that matter) and cheapest motherboard possible, for $100-200?
Even a delidded i5-3570k, overclocked to the teeth, is arguably not worth the price premium, over a p67/z68+i5-2500k. So you can't tell me that a non-delidded, i5-3570k. that isn't volted or delidded, is worth it over i5-2500k.
If you want best of class performance, your gonna have to delid and overclock. Otherwise, a stock SB/IB will still play any modern game maxed out, just fine.
But you have heard of people who have screwed up processors. And the reason I posted the Puget example is that they actually fucked up the second processor they tried to delid. If you want to delid the processor, good go ahead. I am not responsible for any problems. I also suggest that you seek a better forum for "enthusiasts" like HardOCP and Overclock.net if you think suggesting delidding to people who don't know what desktop parts to buy is a good idea.
For someone seeking moderate overclocks, there is zero reason to delid a processor. Don't be so heatphobic.
A lot of the people here aren't building their first PC, and it's all quite easy, and I'm not even saying to do it, I'm simply saying "Hey, if you see this delidding stuff and are totally averse to it, maybe you should avoid the i5-3570k and buy the 2500k or a locked SB/IB instead".
If you have no idea what you are doing, but think delidding is totally awesome, or are curious about it and think you'd like to keep your options open, then by all means, buy the 3570k, maybe 3 years from now consider delidding and decide against it, and you appreciate having had your options open.
But you have heard of people who have screwed up processors. And the reason I posted the Puget example is that they actually fucked up the second processor they tried to delid. If you want to delid the processor, good go ahead. I am not responsible for any problems. I also suggest that you seek a better forum for "enthusiasts" like HardOCP and Overclock.net if you think suggesting delidding to people who don't know what desktop parts to buy is a good idea.
For someone seeking moderate overclocks, there is zero reason to delid a processor. Don't be so heatphobic.
Okay I've read the article a few times now... where exactly does it say they fucked anything up?
Secondly, they didn't overvolt. You aren't going to see shit from delidding if you dont overvolt. That's like complaining the NH-D14 or custom watercooling is shitty because your load temps only dropped 1-2*C on stock voltage, or posting a benchmark saying the Hyper 212 Evo is one of the best coolers in the world, within 1-2*C, because load temps are only 1-2*C on a large thermal plate that disperses heat over a wide area and isn't even reflective of a cpu pushed to the max voltage 24/7 (~1.4).
Third, they DID NOT PROPERLY DELID. They just replaced the thermal paste. I see they cited a japanese study (or mentioned, more like), but the true reason delidding results in a drop of 20*C+ on average at higher volt, safe, 24/7 overclocks, is because there is a gap between the IHS and die, not because of the TIM vs Fluxless solder. In order to get anything from delidding, you need to remove the glue sticking the IHS to the PCB. Delidding has shown to be successful even with the intel paste left on, you just have to scrape that glue off.
That's why people who've done delid tests with the IHS completely removed, showed no difference in temps drops than people who kept the IHS on (but they will show it over people who dont scrape the glue off).
One of the top comments also mirrors what I'm saying:
Actually your results fell in line with most others that tested at stock or near stock voltage, since at low vcore, the dissipated power is very low, and replacing tim will only net a few C. You tested at stock vcore (which is around 1.05v or 1.1v max), and then you say you added .045 vcore which is around 1.1v to 1.15v. Who in their right mind would delid a cpu to only run 4.5ghz and 1.15 vcore, when power dissipated, hence temps are not going to be high in that range. That makes as much sense as delidding to run stock.
Here is Puget's response, acknowledging that their test was completely useless to anyone who is going to delid:
So, yes, we agree that if we applied a higher voltage to the CPU then the difference in temperature would likely be greater. But we were concerned with the practical effect that replacing the TIM paste has on overclocking (in our case, about .2 GHz) rather than the thermal difference at voltages that we as a system integrator would be comfortable running.
You don't delid a CPU that you are going to run on stock voltage. And, similarly, you don't buy a 3570k if you are going to run at stock voltage. You buy a 2500k, and get a higher overclock than the 3570k, and make up for the 5-8% difference clock for clock in real world applications, and pocket the $50-150 in just motherboard costs alone so you can buy a high end SSD or better GPU or a better case or a 2nd GPU which would have a much bigger impact on your system than a 3570k not delidded not overvolted vs i5-2500k not overvolted.
For someone seeking moderate overclocks, there is zero reason to delid a processor. Don't be so heatphobic.
For someone seeking moderate overclocks, there is zero reason to buy a i5-3570k and the $0-40 increase in CPU price and $50-150 in motherboard costs (is there really no reasonably priced i5-2500k right now?) over a i5-2500k.
And why do you want to push a processor "to the limit" so desperately? Who cares if you're not getting that 4.8ghz - 5ghz overclock. Are you seriously saying that if you aren't willing/can't achieve such high clock speeds, getting an unlocked processor is a complete waste?
What I'm saying can be summed up to two points:
- Quit forcing your financial situation onto everyone.
- If you want to offer enthusiast advice for enthusiasts, offer it to actual enthusiasts.
Because it's an i5-3570k. The chip was specifically created and designed for those pushing it to the limit. It's a limit pushing chip. You don't buy a formula 1 racing car to drive to work. You might buy a corvette, but not a formula 1 racing car.
This has nothing to do with financial situation, there is nothing budget or financial about an i5 system... This is about common sense. Why in the world would you buy an i5-3570k if you aren't going to overclock it correctly. It makes just as much sense as buying an i7.
I think you even understand that buying an i7 just for a gaming only rig makes no sense, right?
The i5-2500k is more than powerful enough, and it's not even a matter of value here. The i5-2500k is simply going to overclock further and cooler, and easier, than a non-delidded i5, and it's also going to overclock better on stock or low voltage. At such ranges, you are better off buying the 2500k than the 3570k.
It's like arguing about buying the Phenom x4 or Phenom x6 for video games. It'd be one thing if the phenom x6 was better than the phenom x4, but it isn't. It's exactly the same in video games (most games, to make the analogy simple). If the Phenom x6 was any better, you could maybe say "hey i dont mind paying a premium for best in class'. But you aren't even getting best of class with the i5-3570k if you dont overclock it and delid it, you are just getting an i5-2500k in performance.
Buy an i5-2500k. Buy an i7. Whatever. Dont buy an i5-3570k if you arent going to delid it. It's going to perform exactly the same.
- If you want to offer enthusiast advice for enthusiasts, offer it to actual enthusiasts.
How about:
Don't buy an enthusiast chip if you aren't an enthusiast. Save the money and buy a solid state drive, a better GPU, or just an i7.
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I take that a sata3 hdd won't lose any performance when plugged into a sata2 port? Even in raid-0? My mobo only has 2 sata3 ports and I would like to reserve them for ssds.
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On December 28 2012 09:43 Jotunn wrote:
Hey guys, looking to grab a new computer for this year and am looking for some advice on compatible parts/deals
HDDs on my old one failed and most of the components are too small[case and PSU]or old and insufficient[GPU, motherboard]
What is your budget?
400-600
What is your resolution?
1920x1200
What are you using it for?
Gaming. Ability to stream would be cool but not essential
What is your upgrade cycle?
2 years
When do you plan on building it?
This week
Do you plan on overclocking?
I am interested in this. I have a Intel Core i7-920 Processor (8M Cache, 2.66 GHz, 4.80 GT/s Intel® QPI) from my old computer, which is about 4-5 years old. I thought it might still be a pretty good chip though. So maybe with overclocking it can be good enough that I don't need a new CPU?
Do you need an Operating System?
Probably
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Yes, I would like to get one decent card(7870?) and then grab another of the same in the future. Can you crossfire two different cards?
Where are you buying your parts from?
Newegg probably, Though There are nearby canada computers and tiger direct. Living in Toronto, Canada
Don't need a monitor.
I also have an optical drive that I can use from old comp, any reason to get a new one?. Probably need everything other than the an optical drive/CPU. Also, An SSD would be nice if I could fit it in. I think I need the most advice on MOBOs, PSUs and Cases.
$600 is pushing it for an i5 build, but if you catch the right deals and cut enough corners, you can go i5-3570k + SSD.
NZXT Gamma or NZXT Source 210 ($39/$29). Of all the cases I've looked at, at the budget range, these are the best. The haf912 i think is around $60 but I don't personally think it's worth the price premium, you can find some really nice cases around $70+ but i dont think you'll fit the budget.
I'd recommend the XFX PRO550 for $39 for your psu if you want to sli, it will be enough power and is a really really good deal.
how much storage do you need? You can get a Samsung 830 64gb for $59 if that's all you need (W7, side programs, office suites, and WOL+HOTS will put you at 50GB, leaving you space for a few more games except WoW, modern and even slightly older gen ssds can pretty much use up to their limit in ssd space without any impact on peformance and only a very insignificant impact at very maxed out and only in synthetic benches - and, im not 100% sure on this one, but im pretty sure only in write speeds that dont really matter like sequential, not random 4k).
You can also find the intel x25-m (and if your lucky, the 320) 80gb for $50-59 used on ebay for a little more breathing room.
Or you can find a 1TB HDD if you really need the space, for that price range. HDD sucks compared to ssd. Unfortunately if you need more than 60-80gb of storage than you wont be able to get an ssd (none of the 30-60gb cheaper models are worth it, and then your just over budget).
7950 for GPU, but the 660ti can be found for a good deal sometimes and if it's cheaper, get it instead. You can also go for the 650ti for around $100-120 if you find it on a really good price, that'll be overkill for sc2 and will be powerful enough for most modern games on high settings.
For Heatsink you should really try to get an NH-D14/K2/Assassin/Phanteks/Silver Arrow, for whichever is cheapest, for around $50. You can find them on ebay around $40 sometimes, which I think is your best bet (non electornic, and lifetime serial number based warranties so no need to buy new and saving the money, and the huge performance you get...). I really wouldn't recommend anything less, they are just really top notch coolers and I think it's really worth it for you to fit it in the build. I dont think anything comes close to these coolers at $40 used, $50-60 new at the right deal,
except maybe a used H50 for $20 on ebay (which will actually cool your CPU significantly, just not nearly as much, but should be good enough).
Now for CPU+Mobo
Look up delidding:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/0_100
If you think you could do this one day, get an i5-3570k. You could hire someone else to do it, you can just keep your options open in the future, whatever. If you absolutely dont' want to do this kind of thing to your CPU, then your better off getting the much cooler (when not delidded) i5-2500k and a p67/z68, in my opinion.
You aren't going to fit a 3570k and a half decent z77 in your budget, and even an 3570k as it is, is going to require SERIOUS sacrifices to fit in. If you don't delid a 3570k, it's simply not worth the price premium over an i5-2500k (that's including mobo prices).
Not delidded, an i5-3570k overclocks worse than the i5-2500k, and given the 5-8% performance increase of 3570k vs 2500k, the higher clock you'll get on i5-2500k makes it equal, and thus simply better due to prices. If you do delid, the 3570k is totally better.
For i5-3570k, I think your best bet for motherboard is a z68, and a bios replacement chip or buy the board used where it already has the newest bios flashed in already. You can find a very high quality z68 for $50-70 that'll perform similarly to a $150+ z77, also a lot of z68's already have out of box ivy bridge support, depending on the model and manufacturer.
Z77's only features over z68 boards is that it'll have out of box ivy bridge support, so for $50-150 in savings you can buy the board used, buy a bios replacement chip, get a local store or friend to flash their sb in your board, whatever. Your tight on a budget, so i think you should really consider this. You aren't going to be able to afford a half decent z77 at your price range. Your $600 budget simply means you gotta do a little hustle, but you'll come out with a much better deal anyways.
For 2500k there's plenty of really good, low priced gigabyte boards, the msi g45 is good for budget around $40 used. Not too sure on what else, there's plenty of very good z68's offered around $50-70 that are top of the line. the biostar t68z+ whatever is a really good motherboard offered at a very good price for both ib and sb overclocking, just lacks SLI support, but it has crossfire support so if your going 7950 that's okay.
just my take on your position. if you had more money i think you could consider z77 but i dont think z77 is a good buy ever. $150+ for a quality motherboard with features the same as a z68 at $50-70 that you just gotta figure out the bios problem.
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On December 28 2012 11:43 Hokay wrote:
I take that a sata3 hdd won't lose any performance when plugged into a sata2 port? Even in raid-0? My mobo only has 2 sata3 ports and I would like to reserve them for ssds.
It won't have sata 3 speeds, it'll be bottlenecked. It won't be noticeable and 4k write/reads, the real performance of hdd/sdd, isn't fast enough to be bottlenecked by sata 2.
Keep your ssd's in sata 3 and your sata 3 hdd in sata 2 and lose a bit on the hdd sequential writes/reads but it shouldn't be a big deal.
That's how I understand it, at least. basically sata 3 isn't fast enough to make a noticeable performance increase, and I'd keep your ssd's on the sata 3.
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On December 28 2012 11:43 Hokay wrote:
I take that a sata3 hdd won't lose any performance when plugged into a sata2 port? Even in raid-0? My mobo only has 2 sata3 ports and I would like to reserve them for ssds.
Hard drives are still too slow for that to matter, so go ahead.
On December 28 2012 11:43 Belial88 wrote:
Because it's an i5-3570k. The chip was specifically created and designed for those pushing it to the limit. It's a limit pushing chip. You don't buy a formula 1 racing car to drive to work. You might buy a corvette, but not a formula 1 racing car.
Just because you see the i5-3570k that way doesn't mean that others need to as well.
You talk about overclocking and these processors as if (1) time spent doesn't mean anything, (2) extra noise isn't a factor, (3) nobody's going to mess up hardware mods or multiple voltage changes or whatever else, (4) extra power consumption doesn't add up to some cost difference over the years, even if it's just $10-20 total, and (5) these chips will actually sustain the high speeds 24/7 for years. Some people also do things other than game.
There's no option cheaper than the i5-3570k (i5-2500k, etc.) that can run 4 cores at 4.1 GHz and higher. What processor do you suggest for moderate overclocks, or is such a concept inconceivable? Some people might want a lower 24/7 overclock with the option of pushing up whenever there's some application that actually needs that 400 MHz extra. Leave the high overclock 24/7, and such speeds may be unavailable in 3 years due to degradation.
If this weren't an SC2 forum, I think overclocking would not be encouraged nearly as much. Stock speeds are plenty for most things.
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5930 Posts
Third, they DID NOT PROPERLY DELID. They just replaced the thermal paste. I see they cited a japanese study (or mentioned, more like), but the true reason delidding results in a drop of 20*C+ on average at higher volt, safe, 24/7 overclocks, is because there is a gap between the IHS and die, not because of the TIM vs Fluxless solder. In order to get anything from delidding, you need to remove the glue sticking the IHS to the PCB. Delidding has shown to be successful even with the intel paste left on, you just have to scrape that glue off.
But they did delidd. They removed the heatspreader and damaged the second CPU they tried it on which is the whole point of the Puget example. I already explained why I posted that example yet you're harping on about some crap about how they didn't use use high enough voltages or whatever.
Their findings about the effects of delidding is irrelevant. The whole point is that they managed to damage their CPU through delidding and they are certainly people who know how to build a computer.
I'm going to warn you once. Tone down the enthusiast grade crap and offer solutions that are easy for someone who doesn't know lot about technology to understand and use. If you want people to use enthusiast/annoying workaround solutions to problems that don't even need to exist, you're welcome to create a new thread for such people. Keep it out of this computer build thread however.
Myrmidon in the post above explains my stance on the issue of the unlocked processors.
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5930 Posts
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EPT
