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On July 07 2009 09:57 404.Nitrogen wrote:you're a shithead -_- seriously don't post like that in here, we already have enough of it anyways for the people saying that it will be added in later, yeah it probably will, but why release the game without one of the core things in starcraft. it doesn't seem like it would take too long to add either, seeing as how they had it in sc1.
Just a hunch, but I believe the reason for the delay is that they want to allow the slider based time skip (rewind etc) to function and that is something that BW did not have to deal with. It is also quite possible that they want all those coaching and commentator tools to be usable too, so you could for example draw a circle or lines showing where units should be going, or make a ghost image of a bunker where it would have been better to position it. If my theory is correct, once we do have multiplayer replays, they are going to be epic.
But yeah, they should release SC1 style replays and do updates later for any extra functionality.
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On July 07 2009 10:07 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 09:57 404.Nitrogen wrote:On July 07 2009 09:40 Mobius wrote:
tl;dr you're a shithead -_- seriously don't post like that in here, we already have enough of it anyways for the people saying that it will be added in later, yeah it probably will, but why release the game without one of the core things in starcraft. it doesn't seem like it would take too long to add either, seeing as how they had it in sc1. Just a hunch, but I believe the reason for the delay is that they want to allow the slider based time skip (rewind etc) to function and that is something that BW did not have to deal with. It is also quite possible that they want all those coaching and commentator tools to be usable too, so you could for example draw a circle or lines showing where units should be going, or make a ghost image of a bunker where it would have been better to position it. If my theory is correct, once we do have multiplayer replays, they are going to be epic. But yeah, they should release SC1 style replays and do updates later for any extra functionality.
ah yeah i overlooked that, that is very likely.
and i agree with the last part, just have really basic replay ui (speed up, pause) and update the rest of the shit later for viewing a replay with others, and leave all the fancy stuff in single player viewing for now.
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its ok, they will release replays, customizable hotkeys and right-click in three seperate downloadable content packs for only 9.99$ each!
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On July 07 2009 08:37 Medzo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 08:21 L wrote:On July 07 2009 01:45 Eury wrote:On July 07 2009 01:41 VIB wrote:
Reminds me of the first few months after they released WoW. The game was sooo incomplete and sooooooo buggy that many people called it "the payed Beta phase" :S
Guess Blizzard changed a lot since Broodwar. The worse part it. As bugged as wow it, it still has millions of subscribers. So why change a team that is winning? Starcraft 2 will probably follow wow's steps and will have a lot of broken features hidden beneath a lot of eye-candy. This post is so horrible misinformed that I really hope that you are trolling. It actually isn't. WoW was riddled with a massive amount of bugs at release, and all the raid content they released after the initial launch was bugged. BWL? Gate not opening. AQ40? Impossible C'thun and a boss that required its own loot to beat. Naxx? 4H fight was broken at release too. I can't speak for the expansions, but that's the history of the game. There's obviously more, like there being raid ending lag spikes server wide, which led to a number of the game's premiere old school guilds (including the one with the first world kill on ragnaros) leaving our server because thaddius became near-impossible to do without dying 8 times if it wasn't 2 am. But that was cool, because the near 1200 people that transferred off our server paid for the new hardware we got 8 months later. BWL was buggy for about two weeks. The AQ40 gate worked fine, the problem was the whole server being in one location, a problem they knew and told the community about dozens of times before ever implementing AQ40 (but the community begged for a world event consistantly). Cthun wasn't unbeatable with his own loot, the problem was tentacles spawned in his stomach for awhile and then they removed them. The 4 horseman encounter wasn't bugged, it was built as a ridiculous encounter where you needed 8 tanks, that never changed till wotlk.
Uh, BWL was buggy for a lot longer than 2 weeks, and it wasn't just 'buggy' the rest of the content in there wasn't in.
Its pretty obvious you weren't fighting for server/world firsts or doing competitive raiding if that's how long you think the problems were around. C'thun's issues lasted well over 2 months, through over 3 patches.
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On July 07 2009 10:12 damenmofa wrote:
its ok, they will release replays, customizable hotkeys and right-click in three seperate downloadable content packs for only 9.99$ each!
LOL right click only 9.99$
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It actually isn't. WoW was riddled with a massive amount of bugs at release,
List a few of these massive bugs. Not raid ones, as you already drew a distinction.
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In response to those arguing Blizzard's prior statement of, 'We will release the game when it's ready,' and 'This feature won't be available at launch,' I am just assuming that to add those features would significantly delay the game. The way I see it, if the game were released January 2010 with some features not in the game, and then they are patched and added in let's say June 2010, who's to say that to add those features for launch wouldn't take until May or June?
In short, we may be getting a game that is lacking some standard features, but unless they decide to charge me to download those features when they are ready, I am fine with this, albeit disappointed.
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On July 07 2009 11:26 Daniri wrote:Show nested quote +
It actually isn't. WoW was riddled with a massive amount of bugs at release,
List a few of these massive bugs. Not raid ones, as you already drew a distinction. Are you for rela? You want us to remember specific bugs so you can prove a point over the internet? I reported over 50 bugs on the first few months of wow. Ranging from class abilities not working, quests not working, tradeskill items not working, mobs not working. It was hard to walk around minding your own business for a couple of minutes without finding a bug. Many of these were highly exploitable and a big bunch of the game's early content were trivializable if you knew how to exploit the right bugs. But I don't remember specific details 4 years later to tell you, stop being ridiculous.
Wow was released a highly bugged and incomplete game. And still had millions of loyal subscribers. So don't expect Blizzard to bother to releasing Starcraft 2 complete and well polished. Because from their own experience that doesn't matter too much for their sales. As long as it's filled with hype and eye candy people will buy it anyway.
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On July 07 2009 10:18 L wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 08:37 Medzo wrote:On July 07 2009 08:21 L wrote:On July 07 2009 01:45 Eury wrote:On July 07 2009 01:41 VIB wrote:
Reminds me of the first few months after they released WoW. The game was sooo incomplete and sooooooo buggy that many people called it "the payed Beta phase" :S
Guess Blizzard changed a lot since Broodwar. The worse part it. As bugged as wow it, it still has millions of subscribers. So why change a team that is winning? Starcraft 2 will probably follow wow's steps and will have a lot of broken features hidden beneath a lot of eye-candy. This post is so horrible misinformed that I really hope that you are trolling. It actually isn't. WoW was riddled with a massive amount of bugs at release, and all the raid content they released after the initial launch was bugged. BWL? Gate not opening. AQ40? Impossible C'thun and a boss that required its own loot to beat. Naxx? 4H fight was broken at release too. I can't speak for the expansions, but that's the history of the game. There's obviously more, like there being raid ending lag spikes server wide, which led to a number of the game's premiere old school guilds (including the one with the first world kill on ragnaros) leaving our server because thaddius became near-impossible to do without dying 8 times if it wasn't 2 am. But that was cool, because the near 1200 people that transferred off our server paid for the new hardware we got 8 months later. BWL was buggy for about two weeks. The AQ40 gate worked fine, the problem was the whole server being in one location, a problem they knew and told the community about dozens of times before ever implementing AQ40 (but the community begged for a world event consistantly). Cthun wasn't unbeatable with his own loot, the problem was tentacles spawned in his stomach for awhile and then they removed them. The 4 horseman encounter wasn't bugged, it was built as a ridiculous encounter where you needed 8 tanks, that never changed till wotlk. Uh, BWL was buggy for a lot longer than 2 weeks, and it wasn't just 'buggy' the rest of the content in there wasn't in. Its pretty obvious you weren't fighting for server/world firsts or doing competitive raiding if that's how long you think the problems were around. C'thun's issues lasted well over 2 months, through over 3 patches.
BWL content was always in there, they just closed the gate after vaelastrasz after the first couple of days because it had some bugs. It was only about 2 weeks till the content was back, and some guilds had already cleared it anyway by using uncooked deviant fish to get through the gate. Im sure I wouldn't know this because obviously I wasnt one of the top guilds... right?
No wrong. And you can talk about how the C'thun "problem" lasted 2 months, but the fact was that they changed the encounter so that it was easier. All they did was stop tentacles from spawning in the stomach, thats it. And im not trying to say BWL wasn't buggy, god BWL was sooo buggy, but they fixed most of the problems quickly and realised they messed up.
Regardless an MMO is not like an RTS, as far as bugs or coding goes.
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On July 07 2009 11:26 Daniri wrote:Show nested quote +
It actually isn't. WoW was riddled with a massive amount of bugs at release,
List a few of these massive bugs. Not raid ones, as you already drew a distinction.
All patch notes are available at the official site. And for the most part bug fixes are listed under their own heading, the rest are considered changes, balancing or fixes
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no online replays is incredibly hurting. I loved sc1 watching online replays with a bunch of friends and I absolutely hated that war3 couldn't do that.
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Are you for rela? You want us to remember specific bugs so you can prove a point over the internet?
Do you have a problem with backing up what is said?
I reported over 50 bugs on the first few months of wow. Ranging from class abilities not working, quests not working, tradeskill items not working, mobs not working. It was hard to walk around minding your own business for a couple of minutes without finding a bug. Many of these were highly exploitable and a big bunch of the game's early content were trivializable if you knew how to exploit the right bugs. But I don't remember specific details 4 years later to tell you, stop being ridiculous.
I read all of this and the only part that matters is the last.
And a couple quests not working out of the two thousand they had at release? Creeps evading? Do you know what the word "massive" means?
Your problem is hyperbole. WoW's launch was very smooth bug wise.
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Either you: a) purposelessly evade most of my post in an ugly troll attempt, or b) you're just not a very bright person and simply didn't understand it, or c) you've got reeeeeaaaalllyyy low standards.
Either way you're not worth it. Believe whatever that makes you happy.
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On July 07 2009 17:23 VIB wrote:
Either you: a) purposelessly evade most of my post in an ugly troll attempt
I answered the parts of your post that was relevant to the question I asked, that incidentally I did not ask of you. You said you don't even remember 4 years ago so clearly you're in no position to be arguing with me, as I do remember.
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VIB, I'm wondering out of interest if there is any game developer that live up to your standards?
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On July 07 2009 08:37 Medzo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 08:21 L wrote:On July 07 2009 01:45 Eury wrote:On July 07 2009 01:41 VIB wrote:
Reminds me of the first few months after they released WoW. The game was sooo incomplete and sooooooo buggy that many people called it "the payed Beta phase" :S
Guess Blizzard changed a lot since Broodwar. The worse part it. As bugged as wow it, it still has millions of subscribers. So why change a team that is winning? Starcraft 2 will probably follow wow's steps and will have a lot of broken features hidden beneath a lot of eye-candy. This post is so horrible misinformed that I really hope that you are trolling. It actually isn't. WoW was riddled with a massive amount of bugs at release, and all the raid content they released after the initial launch was bugged. BWL? Gate not opening. AQ40? Impossible C'thun and a boss that required its own loot to beat. Naxx? 4H fight was broken at release too. I can't speak for the expansions, but that's the history of the game. There's obviously more, like there being raid ending lag spikes server wide, which led to a number of the game's premiere old school guilds (including the one with the first world kill on ragnaros) leaving our server because thaddius became near-impossible to do without dying 8 times if it wasn't 2 am. But that was cool, because the near 1200 people that transferred off our server paid for the new hardware we got 8 months later. BWL was buggy for about two weeks. The AQ40 gate worked fine, the problem was the whole server being in one location, a problem they knew and told the community about dozens of times before ever implementing AQ40 (but the community begged for a world event consistantly). Cthun wasn't unbeatable with his own loot, the problem was tentacles spawned in his stomach for awhile and then they removed them. The 4 horseman encounter wasn't bugged, it was built as a ridiculous encounter where you needed 8 tanks, that never changed till wotlk.
I'm pretty sure he meant Princess Huhuran who needed her own loot in order for her to be beaten. Or lvl 40 greens. I'm pretty sure that part of the comment wasn't directed at C'Thun (the encounter was changed around at least 3 times after the initial bugfix anyway. They wanted to make the entry easier and not use the screwed up method that guilds came up with - which resulted in a week of unbeatable C'Thun again when everyone got fried at the initiate until they could finally implement the fight startup delay properly - I'm sure you just "forgot" to mention that  ). And the 4horsemen had their fair share of bugs with those invisible void zones or whatever the fuck else they were.
Edit: My friend was beta testing WoW, and played from the early days. It HAD a shitton of broken (minor and major) stuff at release. But it's an MMORPG not an RTS, so I don't think that's really relevant.
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On July 05 2009 04:59 epicdoom wrote:Show nested quote +Question:
They use their own modified version of Battle.Net.
Rob Pardo:
That is even worse. * laughs * This is called a pirate service. =[ that's kinda harsh
it just shows where blizzard's priorities are at
lol didn't realize there was 11 pages after the post i replied to
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On July 07 2009 10:07 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 09:57 404.Nitrogen wrote:On July 07 2009 09:40 Mobius wrote:
tl;dr you're a shithead -_- seriously don't post like that in here, we already have enough of it anyways for the people saying that it will be added in later, yeah it probably will, but why release the game without one of the core things in starcraft. it doesn't seem like it would take too long to add either, seeing as how they had it in sc1. Just a hunch, but I believe the reason for the delay is that they want to allow the slider based time skip (rewind etc) to function and that is something that BW did not have to deal with. It is also quite possible that they want all those coaching and commentator tools to be usable too, so you could for example draw a circle or lines showing where units should be going, or make a ghost image of a bunker where it would have been better to position it. If my theory is correct, once we do have multiplayer replays, they are going to be epic. But yeah, they should release SC1 style replays and do updates later for any extra functionality.
No, you are going too far. This is how the logic chain goes:
Blizzard stopped with online replays in wc3.
Thus there were some changes sc->wc3 that is the problem.
Thus most likely all the extras in sc2 do not have anything to do with this.
Now, what happened between sc and wc3? Well, the wc3 replays have a much better fog of war system, it knows what each player have seen so you can switch between them and see exactly what that player saw. For example if he scouted a structure you will see it and nothing else in the fog even if you moments before had vision on the whole map.
So, in starcraft you are an observer of two bots playing with instructions recorded in the rep. In wc3 the replay system is a lot different from the normal game to allow for these things making them very different. So you can't just turn of these things and it would work online, you would have to create it again from scratch. Or of course make it compatible with the online system so that it can send the correct information so that others can see what you see.
Also, this is not a standard feature. I think that starcraft is the only RTS in existence with replays being watchable online with friends.
On July 07 2009 11:53 VIB wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 11:26 Daniri wrote:
It actually isn't. WoW was riddled with a massive amount of bugs at release,
List a few of these massive bugs. Not raid ones, as you already drew a distinction. + Show Spoiler +Are you for rela? You want us to remember specific bugs so you can prove a point over the internet? I reported over 50 bugs on the first few months of wow. Ranging from class abilities not working, quests not working, tradeskill items not working, mobs not working. It was hard to walk around minding your own business for a couple of minutes without finding a bug. Many of these were highly exploitable and a big bunch of the game's early content were trivializable if you knew how to exploit the right bugs. But I don't remember specific details 4 years later to tell you, stop being ridiculous.
Wow was released a highly bugged and incomplete game. And still had millions of loyal subscribers. So don't expect Blizzard to bother to releasing Starcraft 2 complete and well polished. Because from their own experience that doesn't matter too much for their sales. As long as it's filled with hype and eye candy people will buy it anyway.
Um, I played it right from release and the only really annoying bug was the loot bug, and the loot bug comes from the server being crowded so it is not technically a bug. BWL and such are not release content so they don't have anything to do with this. And I did raid early and did several server firsts before I got too bored and quit and I did all instances during my levelling period so there isn't much content that I missed.
Most likely you are just talking out of your ass.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
IMO blizzard has changed way too much...
Like, I honestly think SC2 is suppose to attract people that like good graphics and don't care about game play. Because thats the vibe I get just from reading the threads about lan/reps...
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EPT
