Overseers can create a Changeling by spending energy. The Changeling is a small unstable Zerg creature with timed life. When he gets near an enemy structure or unit he will change shape into the correct basic unit type and color to match that player. So if you get near a Blue Barracks you become a Blue Marine. If you get near a Red Stalker you become a Red Zealot, etc.
Enemy players cannot control the Changeling. It's still owned and controled by the Zerg player who created it. It is very vulnerable and can be killed by a single hit from just about anything. The Changeling cannot fight. He is just a shapeshifter, when he looks like a Marine that gun in his hand isn't "real."
You can see that something is a Changeling by mousing over the unit, by trying (and failing) to drag select or by selecting the unit and seeing the name and portrait.
What it does for the game: 1) Gives the Zerg a fun way to scout (though really they already have plenty of scouting options). 2) Makes enemy players constantly fearful of all of their own units. Is THAT a Changeling?! What about THAT GUY!?
In live games it is pretty difficult to keep on top of the "Changeling Problem" if an enemy Zerg player is trying to sneak into your base. However when you do catch them it feels pretty good.
It's something we have been trying for a few weeks and we thought we would include it in the WWI build to see what people thought.
Spies sucked in RA1-2 since they cost a ton and since noone uses infantry anyway you know that any infantry you see is a spy, but units like these costing nothing but energy is just fine
On July 04 2008 05:06 Klockan3 wrote: Spies sucked in RA1-2 since they cost a ton and since noone uses infantry anyway you know that any infantry you see is a spy, but units like these costing nothing but energy is just fine
Wow sometimes I think you guys just love to whine.
Creates an imbalance as this kind of feature is only available for one race.
As is warp-in, mobile healing, hallucinations, burrow - do I need to continue..?
This doesn't seem zerg-like. Actually seems kinda like a Protoss thing...
..... Invasion of the body snatchers.
Can you get more zerg?
Btw, I think since this is kind of a big new thing it having its own thread is alright, even though Trollbone is right, there's info about this already in his thread.
I like the idea, I say keep it And just because you think a unit might not be used doesn't mean you should immediately bash it, especially when you're yet to use it. The queen is hardly ever used in bw but we still think it's the best game ever.
On July 04 2008 06:50 Ozarugold wrote: This doesn't seem zerg-like. Actually seems kinda like a Protoss thing...
Yeah... Would be easy to think of it as a mind-controlled spy or simply an illusion created by a templar. But Zerg with such a sophisticated unit? The only "explanation" would be that it's a unit that can morph into any other unit, but then this unit would be quite powerful so that it should be able to attack as well, not just scout.
This doesn't seem zerg-like. Actually seems kinda like a Protoss thing...
..... Invasion of the body snatchers.
Can you get more zerg?
Btw, I think since this is kind of a big new thing it having its own thread is alright, even though Trollbone is right, there's info about this already in his thread.
I was thinking along how Protoss had hallucination and Zerg had infested terrans. Why don't infested terran take two seconds to look itself in the mirror before running out into battle?
I'm joking obviously, but it kind of runs similar to Parasite I guess, so I guess it's acceptable.
Late game, when no one can keep track of their individual units, it seems like this will become something like a super maphack, as players can't be bothered to individually search every unit.
it's designed to just be an extra scouting tool for zerg. nothing to worry about guys, it's timed life and not going to be 'imba'. only thing that worries me is that it may not be practical if its too costly to research or not that effective
yes d.arkive they do have a time limit. it's not going to be a maphack. plus i think they get autoattacked so it cant follow your army around. (not sure about this)
anyone from WWI can confirm whether or not changelings get autoattacked upon? or need to be manually attacked
um ok to me it REALLY seems like a protoss thing tho. The zergs mutate, and thus create superior, and ugly-ass, new units. They do NOT make perfect copies of what they are imitating. They do it better. Refinement to exactly copy would come from a protoss illusion or a terran computer generated thing, MAYBE
but Cavez = Dustin Browder said it gets one-shot killed by most of units, so it's something even less than hallucination. Those have at least same HP of units they mirror...?
What's more it can be killed before it changes... who knows how it's range of sight will end up
On July 04 2008 05:04 Oc wrote: 2) Makes enemy players constantly fearful of all of their own units. Is THAT a Changeling?! What about THAT GUY!?
I can imagine this, and it would be damn funny. See some paranoid player start killing his entire army and going insane. Tank + mnm, the tanks start firing at random marines, and it like OH NO. There is one! I know there is.. Where is it! And before he knows it, his army is dead.
SC2: Warning: This game may be the cause of extreme paranoia.
On July 04 2008 05:04 Oc wrote: 2) Makes enemy players constantly fearful of all of their own units. Is THAT a Changeling?! What about THAT GUY!?
I can imagine this, and it would be damn funny. See some paranoid player start killing his entire army and going insane. Tank + mnm, the tanks start firing at random marines, and it like OH NO. There is one! I know there is.. Where is it! And before he knows it, his army is dead.
SC2: Warning: This game may be the cause of extreme paranoia.
EDIT: That octopus video made me lol.
lol Tanks part made me realize why they aren't auto-shoot xP besides taking fun of looking for them from the game...
On July 04 2008 06:55 -orb- wrote: stupid idea imo... practically impossible for anyone to know which of their units are changelings and which aren't without constantly checking.
Creates an imbalance as this kind of feature is only available for one race.
Also if the overseer has no other spells but has mana, these will be very spammable
Maybe constantly clicking on their units to check for spies will give those "Gosu" players who find that they have down time due to MBS something to do with their time.....and problem solved!
Your units do not auto attack it, thats the whole point of it...
And they are really really easy to scout since you can't select them, which means that if you just drags a big box around your army every unit but the changeling will get selected which means that you intantly knows if its there or not.
The changeling would be really useful in ZvZ. Run it into the zerg base as a zergling (while they have to realize that there's a rogue zergling and a-click it) into their mineral line, then with the vision spawn nydus canals into their line.
On July 04 2008 16:14 anotak wrote: i like parasite a lot better. this is boring to me. why not give overseers parasite with longer range?
Parasite is a much stronger ability than this, do you want zerg to have parasites on all of your units just because their plentifull overseers can just spam it all over?
Mmm... I dunno if I like the idea. Doesn't feel as zerg as it does say, Starship troopers or something. Meh, regardless, it's an interesting idea. But if that's all overseers have mana to do.... ew. Seems sort of like an extra feature added to do nothing but add macro.
Also seems sorta silly from a fluff standpoint. Wouldn't really work vs zerg, as all of the zerg are part of a collective hive mind. I think they'd spot the outsider pretty quickly. The protoss are have a strong psionic connection with each other, and that one zealot who doesn't seem to be telepathically communicating would instantly gain suspicion. Seems like it might work on terrans, and then result in an awesome BSG-esque "who's the intruder!?" scene.
Eh, seems too far fetched for zerg, honestly if they wanted to incorporate a mechanic like this for zerg id say make it like a parasite where you can control the unit you cast it on, just don't allow this "mind controlled" unit to attack so its, urr, not a copy of mind control.
edit: on second thought even that seems bad, If I was a zerg collective I would certainly want the units I assimilated to be able to attack, but then it IS mind control... eh... I vote parasite is fine...
but never used :/ and when it is, like I think in some last Jaedong vs Bisu game? 1-2 units during the whole game get parasited?
Talking about lore Terrans learned to imitate Zerg communication waves so why wouldn't Zerg confuse other Zerg? And still direct question htf are you reveals them.
Talking about Protoss Zeratul got in brief contact with the Overmind so can we really say they ways of communication are so different? Overlords control the Swarm through some ranged telephaty because if they don't why they don't have to follow Zerg units everywhere? Yet again direct check works
And they die after few minutes so all this mimicking has to be kind of exhausting ;P
My problem with it isn't concept or anything, because that can be changed. But the basic premise of the ability just isn't very effective. Anyone above low tier will never mistake a unit that isn't theres for their own. So the unit will probably just be a way to scout expos and such without spending resources, and the morphing ability will just be a novelty. I like the direction it's going to give zerg some sort of scouting ability that isn't overlords, but I feel it could be executed better.
It can be less about noticing or not noticing it and more about how fast can it be noticed and how fast can all of them be killed, when few of them appear in different places IMO...
And successfully mixing them in someones (big) army with move order on some unit, can do to.
That's true, but like I said that just means the shapeshifting thing is still ineffective. What makes the ability good is that it costs energy and no resources, so you have many expendable scouts. I just think there might be a better way to make the unit very unique at scouting instead of just an expendable scout.
One possible idea is to give them an ability similar to the red alert spies where they can infiltrate buildings, giving you information about what is being constructed at that building when you click on it. And perhaps if you infiltrate a command center it'll tell you how many resources the player has. To balance this out, make it only last a minute or so, or have some way to remove the parasites.
as long as you can't see it in your minimap......cuz then it would be kinda useless....are there dark archons in sc2 ?? i forget
well if there are, sc2 should also make it so that mind controlled neutral animals like the kakaru remain undetectable in minimap. it would make it viable. and killing the animals is fun...so..yea
Depends on how it's balanced, but it could be fun. The key is that it has to be feasible to kill them before they transform. Otherwise it's basically a free map hack for Zerg later in the game.
Lot's of people saying it's going to be an end-game maphack?! Do they honestly believe pro players aren't going to spot a unit standing still in a second. If it's with the army it won't move with hotkeys etc... This is gonna be relatively easy to spot for good players, you'd need sick micro to make it look like an enemy unit.
Oh man, having a unit that the enemy has to pay close attention to to detect it, not to mention manually kill it doesnt seem to fit so much into sc for me i mean it seems soooooo sloww for some reason. The name is lame too for crist sake, get original on it.
Oh and by the time this thing could be researched, i mean overseers are lair right? zerg already has the pretty fucking best scouting units in the game, fast ass mutalisks, cheap ass zerglings, and now some kind of gay harmless sneaky unit that doest feel zergish at all. A zerg spy???, give me a break.
I'd like it if they gave overseers something similar to ensare, but perhaps a little bit better. It would be great if they spit sludge at a group of units to slow them down and make them stick to the land X_X Just an example. I like the changling idea though.
On July 04 2008 21:47 Straylight wrote: Even if the changeling doesn't make it into the final build for SC2 it better be in the map editor.
Anyone played The Thing UMS on SC1? Yeahhh.
Yup.
They said they would include every unit and special ability in the map editor, so yeah you'll see it there.
while i do think this unit needs some offensive capabilities i think this could lead to some awesome pimpest plays where like the zerg opponenent tricks the terran into thinking he has more units then he really does and attacking early or something like that
No really, that's what I first thought. Of course you can think and analyze, perhaps it's for protoss, perhaps imbalanced, but it's cute. Awwwwwwwwww my zergy wants to be a zealy
Actually I want to feel that when you find one of these and massacre it. I'd feel so proud(for the first time, then I'd get paranoia).
Trying to stay along the same blueprint as the Changeling, how about a unit that kills a unit and remembers its DNA structure and then regurgitates the Changeling. Although another unit would have to get this ability as the Overseer cannot kill anything, but it kind of fits with the Zerg lore, how they took once docile breeds and assimilated them into powerful underlings for the cerebrate. If anyone is hellbent on keeping this an Overseer ability, I guess it's possible to make the Overseer extend its tendrils and someone extract the DNA off a unit...
I don't know why, but I like the name Grudgling, or Grudgeling, better. It sounds much more badass than Changeling. Plus it kind of fits. The unit has some sort of grudge and refuses to die, only to accept its fate moment later...so on and so forth...
EPT
(ok maybe not the serach function but look at others threads especially sticky's)
