EPTGarimto that currently commentates GomTV often says (AFAIK) current Protoss players play not as good as they could... I think he means micro, like pulling back in PvT in time before Siege Tanks eat Goons... do you think he could come back or stay with commentating?
Old players coming back in SC2?
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
Garimto that currently commentates GomTV often says (AFAIK) current Protoss players play not as good as they could... I think he means micro, like pulling back in PvT in time before Siege Tanks eat Goons... do you think he could come back or stay with commentating? | ||
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XCetron
5226 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
Don't post mysterious 1 liners it irks me greatly. If you say somethign like that at least explain. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
I think that was his point. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On June 30 2008 02:30 FrozenArbiter wrote: Garimto tried to come back in SC already but retired again. I think that was his point. I thought bout it but his OP made me think that Garimto got back into commentating. And if no where/what is he doing now? | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
I don't know if he, and others from the earlier generations of pros, will/can come out on top in the early stages of SC2. Maybe. But if they do, I don't think it's because of MBS/the lack of MBS but because of their talent/intelligence/experience and just their affinity for RTS games in general. I don't really see this topic going anywhere but will leave it up a while to see if it does. | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
I mean guys like him and Boxer got rusty over the years (or army duty). If MBS is considered lowering skill overall would they start playing SC2 competitively, especially when 1st pro leagues will be created (like day of release at the latest imo ;P)? | ||
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Fantabulous[Fab]
United States21 Posts
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praetor.at
Austria92 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On June 30 2008 03:03 praetor.at wrote: with macro being eased, creative micro-type players will be at an advantage, especially in the beginning. gogo boxer. Hear hear. Show those blind mechanics what you're made of!! 2 years later: Ex-Progammer Garimto becomes the richest man selling D3 golds with 100 operating gold grinding PCbangs in S.Korea | ||
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nimysa
United States383 Posts
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
On June 30 2008 03:08 nimysa wrote: MBS will not be in Starcraft 2, if starcraft 2 has no macro aspect then Starcraft 2 will not boom in the South Korea. This isn't warcraft crap, for all the new warcrafters coming here, go back to the stupid hell hole you came from. I don't want to make this into another MBS debate please, this is a question what will happen if they keep it... it's just there are no signs Blizz will remove it but whole bunch they try to compensate for it | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5458 Posts
On June 30 2008 03:08 nimysa wrote: MBS will not be in Starcraft 2, if starcraft 2 has no macro aspect then Starcraft 2 will not boom in the South Korea. This isn't warcraft crap, for all the new warcrafters coming here, go back to the stupid hell hole you came from. "Joined TL.net: Friday, 14th of March 2008" And where did YOU come from? | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On June 30 2008 03:08 nimysa wrote: MBS will not be in Starcraft 2, if starcraft 2 has no macro aspect then Starcraft 2 will not boom in the South Korea. This isn't warcraft crap, for all the new warcrafters coming here, go back to the stupid hell hole you came from. We'll be sharing SC2 with those warcrafters so I'd prefer it if you didn't needlessly insult them. Translation: Shut up and get back on topic! | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On June 30 2008 03:03 praetor.at wrote: with macro being eased, creative micro-type players will be at an advantage, especially in the beginning. gogo boxer. I doubt it, The only thing that really holds macro down is just the fact that the game has not been figured out as much. Once people figure out correct play styles, maps, and unit combos when/where etc. then the micro players start to lose. | ||
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Alizee-
United States845 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
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JoxxOr
Sweden1502 Posts
Seriously, I think none of the old progamers will come back, there just isn't any sparks and motivation left. But if there is one, I hope it's the numbah two | ||
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Alizee-
United States845 Posts
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RamenStyle
United States1929 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
We'll see the players with the best mechanics rise to the top at first, then as the game settles in and play matures a bit, we'll see those who are truly good at SC2 rise to the top while everyone else kind of filters out. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On July 01 2008 02:49 PH wrote: We'll see the players with the best mechanics rise to the top at first, then as the game settles in and play matures a bit, we'll see those who are truly good at SC2 rise to the top while everyone else kind of filters out. No its the other way around, early on its those thar are smartest and thus got the best game knowledge who will do well, and after a while when every muppet have learned the game theory its almost only mechanics left. Sure theory is very important even in the end just tha ta lot more have it then, and mechanics still plays a large role early but you can't really compete if your starts sucks.(And yes the early strats in most games usually sucks and can be beaten just by being more inventive than most are) | ||
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Amilam
Korea (South)2 Posts
However, if SC2 is successful, but to the point of running alongside SC1 and not replacing it then maybe. If the competitive gaming market in Korea were to grow and support both games then you'd have a much larger pool of progammers. Being top tier level in both games just isn't likely and if there's still good money to made playing SC1 I think most of the current talent would stay there. Still, being a progammer in Korea is pretty grueling and not particularly rewarding unless you're an all star. A lot of vets retired because they had moved on. I'm sure people like Boxer are busy with college or their careers. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On July 14 2008 17:00 Amilam wrote: Being top tier level in both games just isn't likely Its impossible, not just not likely. I mean, how many progamers are top tier with two races? And two races are a lot more similar than these two games. | ||
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mish_ka
Bulgaria26 Posts
On June 29 2008 21:47 MrRammstein wrote: If Blizzard keeps at least MBS in do you think we will see old veterans like Boxer becoming new top greatest? Garimto that currently commentates GomTV often says (AFAIK) current Protoss players play not as good as they could... I think he means micro, like pulling back in PvT in time before Siege Tanks eat Goons... do you think he could come back or stay with commentating? I think I can imagine Boxer and Garimto do some micro techniques in the first few months, yeah. I have no idea if they can keep it up though. But it would be great seeing them even for a few months, yeah. | ||
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Amilam
Korea (South)2 Posts
On July 14 2008 17:26 Klockan3 wrote: Its impossible, not just not likely. I mean, how many progamers are top tier with two races? And two races are a lot more similar than these two games. You're probably right. I thought about the top tier 2 races as well, but there is only one thing that made me be a bit more conservative. I think a big reason why pros play only one race is that's its the race that perfectly matches their game personality. However, what if the "feel" of the races stays in SC2? In the Street Fighter competitive scene, it's rare, but you do see some top level players that can do both the SF2 turbo and SF3 Third Strike. The thing is even if they don't play the exact same character (unless you play Ryu, Ken, or Chun Lee you can't) they found a character that "feels" right. It's a bit of an apples and oranges comparision of course. I mean competitive SC is much more demanding than SF, but I thought it at least had a chance of happening. | ||
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liosama
843 Posts
LOL | ||
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
On June 29 2008 21:47 MrRammstein wrote: If Blizzard keeps at least MBS in do you think we will see old veterans like Boxer becoming new top greatest? Garimto that currently commentates GomTV often says (AFAIK) current Protoss players play not as good as they could... I think he means micro, like pulling back in PvT in time before Siege Tanks eat Goons... do you think he could come back or stay with commentating? Garimto already played sc2 like many other pros and currently is unimpressed with the new UI. mbs and automing remind him of war3. | ||
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Showtime!
Canada2938 Posts
Replays should come with the expansion I guess to give those fruitful minds the benefit of the doubt and excel at the beginning. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
best way to win was by being cheesy and obnoxious, since theres so much gay stuff you can do and mechanical skill is pretty much irrelevant. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
I think that while many of your favorite players will be around, only a few of the great SC players will also be the great SC2 players, just a hunch. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Alizee-
United States845 Posts
On July 14 2008 21:59 Showtime! wrote: Man, you know what would be awesome? If they were to take out the replay feature and just have a SC2 live feature where you can watch games in VOD mode or do live telecasts directly, so players get some info, but not all of it. Replays should come with the expansion I guess to give those fruitful minds the benefit of the doubt and excel at the beginning. Probably one of the best ideas I've heard yet. I mean that's one thing I tend to dislike about RTS is that once a game gets to a certain point, its cookie cutter out the ass and no one does anything new. Its hey look at what this guy did in a replay, let's copy it! New rts games are so much fun figuring out strats you made completely on your own. I really don't see the feature being implemented, but it really would be cool. I just see it as millions playing, couple good players get their strats/bos copied by millions and away we go! | ||
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Bash
Finland1533 Posts
Sadly times like that will never return and there isn't a snowball's chance in hell Blizzard is going to leave out something as basic as a replay function. | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
we dont even know if sc2 will have enough power to become our new national sport! if this lack of macro/plus micro proceed it will be more likely wc3 in terms of esports. | ||
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Alizee-
United States845 Posts
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SlickR12345
Macedonia408 Posts
Who knows what will happen, for all we know the earth may blow up tomorrow! | ||
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KiN2
Sweden18 Posts
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Sentynal
Canada8 Posts
On July 15 2008 06:38 Ki_Do wrote: @topic we dont even know if sc2 will have enough power to become our new national sport! if this lack of macro/plus micro proceed it will be more likely wc3 in terms of esports. Starcraft 2 has everything it needs to be your new national sport. What it's about is the spectators' view of the game through the observer. Having more focus on micro makes it more epic for the viewer during battles while the addition of MBS doesn't hinder the experience at all. If MBS and automine was the only problem with WC3, I would be playing it right now... | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
i like your point of view,who does not love shuttle/reaver micro fo example=]~ but if the macro get screwed then a good amount of people will not play this game for more than 2 months , i can assure it, however they will buy the game, and thats more money to blizzard anyway. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On July 15 2008 22:14 Sentynal wrote: Starcraft 2 has everything it needs to be your new national sport. What it's about is the spectators' view of the game through the observer. Having more focus on micro makes it more epic for the viewer during battles while the addition of MBS doesn't hinder the experience at all. If MBS and automine was the only problem with WC3, I would be playing it right now... But noone cares what you would play. Seriously, you're not a part of the korean e-sport industry. Unlike the rest of the world, they have to enshure their business keeps on running. Noone knows what's going to happen when starcraft 2 is out. The problem comes with the term new. Everything that's new usualy has to fight an uphill battle against being short-dated. Be it music, be it movies, be it games. For something to transcent from something like a game to a competitive enviroment (sport) is a lot harder than it seems. The criterias for having a good spectator game go deeper than just onscreen action. Otherwise we could choose any other game as long as it has enough action. Yes, starcraft2 might come out to be a great game to play, but it has to be more than that if it wants to tie on where starcraft/broodwar was. "It has everything it needs", there were lots and lots of people in the entertainment business that said the same, but in the end their projects just didn't work out and usualy faded away. Your simplyfication wont work for the korean market. Starcraft2 might have had a freeride 10 years ago, but now it has a legacy to overcome. And that is a troublesome task. | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
 ~and warcraft 3 isnt bad, everybody i know play it | ||
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HooHa!
United States688 Posts
Nal_rA quits and gets a job working as a janitor. He's making a statement that Janitors are equally respected as progamers. And then a small percentage of the female esport audience combine to watch Nal_rA's janitorial skills, and he becomes a larger sex symbol as The CLEANER Toss. Not the Dreamer. Times Change. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On July 16 2008 04:42 HooHa! wrote: Watch the COMPLETE opposite of EVERYONES thoughts happen. And that Boxer becomes a Zerg Player at top tier. And like...effin Savior becomes Terran. Nal_rA quits and gets a job working as a janitor. He's making a statement that Janitors are equally respected as progamers. And then a small percentage of the female esport audience combine to watch Nal_rA's janitorial skills, and he becomes a larger sex symbol as The CLEANER Toss. Not the Dreamer. Times Change. You must be pretty high but that was a very entertaining story. | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
so, to answer the question i would rather go(again) macro coming back to sc2, to allow old players to come back IN sc2 | ||
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HooHa!
United States688 Posts
Although...I hate to do this, but can someone please photoshop a picture of Nal_rA as the Mr. Clean guy? But seriously though. I hope SC2 brings back some oldies. And still maintains infinite competition like the first game. | ||
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G5
United States2921 Posts
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Bash
Finland1533 Posts
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
Back! @Jayson X there game such as err Kart Rider? that is competitive sport? And SC2 has a chance to fail ;D? NO WAY! but yea I wonder how it will go... Even tho SC has more to it than way of producing units! And we have few examples here that make us SC2 starved already... | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On July 16 2008 03:49 Ki_Do wrote: yay jayson said everything i wanted to, but my lack of english knowledge can not allow ~and warcraft 3 isnt bad, everybody i know play it actually his english was really bad, don't worry about it. i think mbs will have little effect on whether old school pros will excel at starcraft 2. i think the reason pros are great at a game is that they play it way too much. but there probably is a bit of truth to what another poster said about a race fitting a player's personality well. mediocre players like me end up liking more than one race, whereas a pro will just like and use the one, and it works out great. there can be alot to be said for personality affecting how you play the game, but i think the incredible diversity in these games will help with that...at any rate i don't think mbs will affect this sort of thing. maybe i'm wrong and have been playing wc3 too much, because in that game whoever has the most experience comes out on top...at least in the ladder. when you play the game way too much you have too much experience playing the game for your opponent to handle. and i think that's what makes the pros great. no matter what the game is. i think a question you might be looking for is whether any of the old pros will have a natural talent for sc2 as they did in sc. but it's hard to say how many of them had a narual talent and how many of them just plain worked hard on it. but i would imagine most of them just plain worked hard at it. | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
it will throw away the macro of the game =( and macro is an important thing in starcraft. Blizzard said the auto mining and mbs are to follow the games modernization but i think it should not follow anything, it have to dictate what is modern and waht is not in a rts, cause its starcraft no? if they intend to keep it, ok, but give us more things to macro =) no one wants to see starcraft like an army manager | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
On July 16 2008 23:47 Ki_Do wrote: mbs and auto-mining arent going to turn old school pros into nobs. it will throw away the macro of the game =( and macro is an important thing in starcraft. Blizzard said the auto mining and mbs are to follow the games modernization but i think it should not follow anything, it have to dictate what is modern and waht is not in a rts, cause its starcraft no? if they intend to keep it, ok, but give us more things to macro =) no one wants to see starcraft like an army manager I think this is often put in wrong words. It's not like SC2 should have something in because other modern games have it. It's more like is it needed to keep things like MBS out of game to make it fun? Other games don't have to do it...* Should players have lots to do in game in this way? Easiest way to solve this isn't necessarily the best. *Another question is what games exactly? The only 1 that comes to my mind (except W3) is Supreme Commander and there MBS is really needed... because this SC  revolves about big numbers and I don't think even Koreans would do much about it through hard work... if they played it.Anyone know of other games with things like MBS? | ||
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PliX
Netherlands72 Posts
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