EPTThe Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL - Page 2
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Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2217 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45463 Posts
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gilmorevickie247
1 Post
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ejozl
Denmark3488 Posts
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dedede
United States116 Posts
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On May 28 2025 08:19 Waxangel wrote: Glad everyone could join Mizenhauer for this therapy session around his INnoVation trauma. Some fans are of the disposition to celebrate all SC2 players equally, and think positively about whatever big or small contribution they bring to the game. Those fans are cowards  I know you guys don't want to hear it. But maybe this is the last chance for you to hear an honest opinion about what you guys do here at TL.net. I have probably visited TL.net 3-4 Times in the last 5 years, logged into my account maybe once or twice during that time. Not even sure why. Probably I wanted to see who were the last tournament winners. But: Whenever I come here I get disgusted pretty quickly. Whenever I come here, I see the same dudes talking about the same things. The same people giving their same biased opinions. The same idolization of Terran players over everybody else as the last 15 years from Team Liquid staff. This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else. Everyone else mentioned in this article is only to make it look less biased than it actually is. I can already know this without reading it. This is the same as 10 years ago, when I was still actively playing SC2. I have never investigated, but I would assume that Mizenhauer is a terran player himself. Just as Waxangel is too, right? Is he even a good player or does he only think highly of himself and his biased rankings and Terran idolizations? Why would I want to read the same biased opinions over and over again? No progress since 10 years. Now the question is, why cant you guys evolve? Why cant you let other people in? Why can't you allow other people to state differing opinions from yours? Why is it always the same biased guy (or 2-3 guys) making a best of ranking, writing biased articles like this and so on and so forth. I will probably never come back here. I dont care if you delete my account or this post. You will probably feel the urge to do so. There are so many beautiful things in life. Starcraft 2 is not one of them. Deal with it. No, and we don't share the same memories either: The memories I have on this game are mostly games that I played myself, how I defeated Adelscott, ActionJesus in a tournament in 2010 for example and then lost to Grubby who got told which styles I played at this time and was extremely prepared. I played my very own builds at this time, even if they were less efficient, I knew nobody would know them yet, hahaha. That is an amazing memory. Anyway, I am not sure about if I should write this. Maybe it is just the best idea to leave you guys doing what you do and hide the mirror, instead of putting it directly in front of your faces. ... and leave for good. Calling this 'Innovation trauma' is already a good start, however. At least I can see this way, that you guys know about your own biases and are not totally numb yet. And I want to add this: Probably I don't know how much work you guys put into TL, so I cannot cherish. However, it is what it is and I will be honest about it: I get disgusted when I see articles from Waxangel and Mizenhauer already before reading them. I would assume I am not the only one, but like myself, all others have left you alone already long time ago. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On May 29 2025 22:02 robih wrote: surprised the Soulkey 2013 season1 run didn't make the list The reason is he is a zerg and not a terran and TL.net staff is the definition of bias. When looking at Mizenhauer or Waxangel (I am not even sure if they are different people), you look at extremely narrow minded persons who try to generalize their very own view on things and make it appear like this is a popular or majority opinion, while it is mostly not. Edit: Let me expand on this: The starcraft 2 community was large enough to create, find and allow many different people with many different views to write on TeamLiquid. Instead very few guys filled out all the space, so that you had to read stuff from the same origin for 10-15 years. The question is, how can this even happen? How can after 10-15 years only the same two guys post their opinions on stuff here over and over again still? This is also a leadership problem. Pointing at Liquid Nazgul. We can already know that Nazgul is a weak leader to allow this to happen. The answer is pretty simple: Abuse of power. This is pretty obvious after 15 years. There is no other factor that can cause this result than abuse of powers after this amount of time. They have fat asses sitting in their places and use their power to exactly not allow anybody else in, who could create representation of different opinions, what would be required to make TeamLiquid.net an interesting platform to read articles from, which in return it is not anymore since a long time. | ||
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dedede
United States116 Posts
On June 01 2025 07:20 LSN wrote: I know you guys don't want to hear it. But maybe this is the last chance for you to hear an honest opinion about what you guys do here at TL.net. I have probably visited TL.net 3-4 Times in the last 5 years, logged into my account maybe once or twice during that time. Not even sure why. Probably I wanted to see who were the last tournament winners. But: Whenever I come here I get disgusted pretty quickly. Whenever I come here, I see the same dudes talking about the same things. The same people giving their same biased opinions. The same idolization of Terran players over everybody else as the last 15 years from Team Liquid staff. This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else. Everyone else mentioned in this article is only to make it look less biased than it actually is. I can already know this without reading it. This is the same as 10 years ago, when I was still actively playing SC2. I have never investigated, but I would assume that Mizenhauer is a terran player himself. Just as Waxangel is too, right? Is he even a good player or does he only think highly of himself and his biased rankings and Terran idolizations? Why would I want to read the same biased opinions over and over again? No progress since 10 years. Now the question is, why cant you guys evolve? Why cant you let other people in? Why can't you allow other people to state differing opinions from yours? Why is it always the same biased guy (or 2-3 guys) making a best of ranking, writing biased articles like this and so on and so forth. I will probably never come back here. I dont care if you delete my account or this post. You will probably feel the urge to do so. There are so many beautiful things in life. Starcraft 2 is not one of them. Deal with it. No, and we don't share the same memories either: The memories I have on this game are mostly games that I played myself, how I defeated Adelscott, ActionJesus in a tournament in 2010 for example and then lost to Grubby who got told which styles I played at this time and was extremely prepared. I played my very own builds at this time, even if they were less efficient, I knew nobody would know them yet, hahaha. That is an amazing memory. Anyway, I am not sure about if I should write this. Maybe it is just the best idea to leave you guys doing what you do and hide the mirror, instead of putting it directly in front of your faces. ... and leave for good. Calling this 'Innovation trauma' is already a good start, however. At least I can see this way, that you guys know about your own biases and are not totally numb yet. And I want to add this: Probably I don't know how much work you guys put into TL, so I cannot cherish. However, it is what it is and I will be honest about it: I get disgusted when I see articles from Waxangel and Mizenhauer already before reading them. I would assume I am not the only one, but like myself, all others have left you alone already long time ago. Chill, man. A lot of us have fond memories of GSL, and this write-up is meant to celebrate those moments together—especially now, when it might be the last GSL (though I really hope it’s not). Of course, there’s a lot more that could be included—like Byun’s GSL run, or Dear and Zest’s royal roads—but with the amount of effort involved, it’s impossible to cover everything. We can always share more memories in this thread. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26553 Posts
On June 01 2025 07:33 LSN wrote: The reason is he is a zerg and not a terran and TL.net staff is the definition of bias. When looking at Mizenhauer or Waxangel (I am not even sure if they are different people), you look at extremely narrow minded persons who try to generalize their very own view on things and make it appear like this is a popular or majority opinion, while it is mostly not. Edit: Let me expand on this: The starcraft 2 community was large enough to create, find and allow many different people with many different views to write on TeamLiquid. Instead very few guys filled out all the space, so that you had to read stuff from the same origin for 10-15 years. The question is, how can this even happen? How can after 10-15 years only the same two guys post their opinions on stuff here over and over again still? This is also a leadership problem. Pointing at Liquid Nazgul. We can already know that Nazgul is a weak leader to allow this to happen. The answer is pretty simple: Abuse of power. This is pretty obvious after 15 years. There is no other factor that can cause this result than abuse of powers after this amount of time. They have fat asses sitting in their places and use their power to exactly not allow anybody else in, who could create representation of different opinions, what would be required to make TeamLiquid.net an interesting platform to read articles from, which in return it is not anymore since a long time. Have you proposed or brought articles to TL, have any idea of the process? I have, they were receptive. I decided I didn’t have the bandwidth or the time to really deliver to the requisite quality I, or TL would expect for such articles. The blogs, hell the forum itself exist to fill in gaps of opinions. It’s time-consuming, unpaid work that also requires one to be a decent writer. I imagine plenty have the talent, but don’t want to commit to that, and I’m sure they get those willing but who lack the talent (yours truly haha). Your last few posts are far more myopically biased than anything I can recall TL sticking up as a front page article. Bias can make for entertaining reading so hey, that can be fine but you’re also making assumptions and assertions that are completely wrong. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1279 Posts
On June 01 2025 07:20 LSN wrote: I know you guys don't want to hear it. But maybe this is the last chance for you to hear an honest opinion about what you guys do here at TL.net. I have probably visited TL.net 3-4 Times in the last 5 years, logged into my account maybe once or twice during that time. Not even sure why. Probably I wanted to see who were the last tournament winners. But: Whenever I come here I get disgusted pretty quickly. Whenever I come here, I see the same dudes talking about the same things. The same people giving their same biased opinions. The same idolization of Terran players over everybody else as the last 15 years from Team Liquid staff. This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else. Everyone else mentioned in this article is only to make it look less biased than it actually is. I can already know this without reading it. This is the same as 10 years ago, when I was still actively playing SC2. I have never investigated, but I would assume that Mizenhauer is a terran player himself. Just as Waxangel is too, right? Is he even a good player or does he only think highly of himself and his biased rankings and Terran idolizations? Why would I want to read the same biased opinions over and over again? No progress since 10 years. Now the question is, why cant you guys evolve? Why cant you let other people in? Why can't you allow other people to state differing opinions from yours? Why is it always the same biased guy (or 2-3 guys) making a best of ranking, writing biased articles like this and so on and so forth. I will probably never come back here. I dont care if you delete my account or this post. You will probably feel the urge to do so. There are so many beautiful things in life. Starcraft 2 is not one of them. Deal with it. No, and we don't share the same memories either: The memories I have on this game are mostly games that I played myself, how I defeated Adelscott, ActionJesus in a tournament in 2010 for example and then lost to Grubby who got told which styles I played at this time and was extremely prepared. I played my very own builds at this time, even if they were less efficient, I knew nobody would know them yet, hahaha. That is an amazing memory. Anyway, I am not sure about if I should write this. Maybe it is just the best idea to leave you guys doing what you do and hide the mirror, instead of putting it directly in front of your faces. ... and leave for good. Calling this 'Innovation trauma' is already a good start, however. At least I can see this way, that you guys know about your own biases and are not totally numb yet. And I want to add this: Probably I don't know how much work you guys put into TL, so I cannot cherish. However, it is what it is and I will be honest about it: I get disgusted when I see articles from Waxangel and Mizenhauer already before reading them. I would assume I am not the only one, but like myself, all others have left you alone already long time ago. Sooooo, essentially you are mad that Mizenhauers memories about GSL do not consist of you playing tournaments in 2010? Are you having a stroke or something? This was a fun read, even for me, who really does not care much about GSL - or Terran for that matter. But just learning about these things, what they mean for different people is just interesting. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
But I will give you that. I should have written "great writeup" instead I guess. My goodness, calm down again. The key points still stay true: They are selling opinion as facts and the origin, the source, is always the same 1, 2 or 3 guys. And this means something, when you visit this website literally once per year. I just remember the Taeja shittery from some years back. The question still holds: Why would I wanna read this terran idealization over and over and over and over again on TL.net? I cannot see progress from a decade back from that. Btw. I have done my homework meanwhiles, and did some research on both guys running TL. They are in fact different people. I watched the interviews this morning. Because I wanted to get thorow. They seem reasonable, well reflected people. And still I wonder why when I visit this website after one year, the first thing that pops to my eye is again a story of Terran idealization. Like the time stands still at TL.net. Seriously. And I repeat: For someone like me it is detectable after 20 seconds of scanning through the article, that this is about terran idealization and a few protosses were just added in order to make it at least look a bit multidimensional. Wombat, I remember your name from 10 years ago as well. Great meetup. I am happy. On June 01 2025 11:13 WombaT wrote: It’s time-consuming, unpaid work that also requires one to be a decent writer. I imagine plenty have the talent, but don’t want to commit to that, and I’m sure they get those willing but who lack the talent (yours truly haha). Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself? And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups. Look at this: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation As if I had called for it. Is it a dream? Someone else stating their point of view on TL.net. I cannot believe my eyes yet. I didn't know this was already allowed at all, and not cancelled, like the past 10-15 years. And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh. I just thought, if there is anybody with an IQ at teamliquid worth mentioning, they would probably enjoy an honest opinion more than a conformist, terran elitist "good writeup" statement again, which is called bubble btw. nowadays. | ||
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dedede
United States116 Posts
On June 01 2025 16:36 LSN wrote: Well maybe that was a bit of an unfair assessment. Who cares? I have been treated unfairly by this website dozens of times before myself. But I will give you that. I should have written "great writeup" instead I guess. My goodness, calm down again. The key points still stay true: They are selling opinion as facts and the origin, the source, is always the same 1, 2 or 3 guys. And this means something, when you visit this website literally once per year. I just remember the Taeja shittery from some years back. The question still holds: Why would I wanna read this terran idealization over and over and over and over again on TL.net? I cannot see progress from a decade back from that. Btw. I have done my homework meanwhiles, and did some research on both guys running TL. They are in fact different people. I watched the interviews this morning. Because I wanted to get thorow. They seem reasonable, well reflected people. And still I wonder why when I visit this website after one year, the first thing that pops to my eye is again a story of Terran idealization. Like the time stands still at TL.net. Seriously. And I repeat: For someone like me it is detectable after 20 seconds of scanning through the article, that this is about terran idealization and a few protosses were just added in order to make it at least look a bit multidimensional. Wombat, I remember your name from 10 years ago as well. Great meetup. I am happy. Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself? And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups. Look at this: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation As if I had called for it. Is it a dream? Someone else stating their point of view on TL.net. I cannot believe my eyes yet. I didn't know this was already allowed at all, and not cancelled, like the past 10-15 years. And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh. I just thought, if there is anybody with an IQ at teamliquid worth mentioning, they would probably enjoy an honest opinion more than a conformist, terran elitist "good writeup" statement again, which is called bubble btw. nowadays. I'm not sure what's going on or who hurt you, but aren't you also just sharing your own perspective here? From what I can tell, now, neither you nor that guy obsessed with his statistical evaluation have been 'cancelled.' Am I missing something? Relax dude, you seem a little intense right now. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
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PremoBeats
542 Posts
On June 01 2025 16:36 LSN wrote: Well maybe that was a bit of an unfair assessment. Who cares? I have been treated unfairly by this website dozens of times before myself. But I will give you that. I should have written "great writeup" instead I guess. My goodness, calm down again. The key points still stay true: They are selling opinion as facts and the origin, the source, is always the same 1, 2 or 3 guys. And this means something, when you visit this website literally once per year. I just remember the Taeja shittery from some years back. The question still holds: Why would I wanna read this terran idealization over and over and over and over again on TL.net? I cannot see progress from a decade back from that. Btw. I have done my homework meanwhiles, and did some research on both guys running TL. They are in fact different people. I watched the interviews this morning. Because I wanted to get thorow. They seem reasonable, well reflected people. And still I wonder why when I visit this website after one year, the first thing that pops to my eye is again a story of Terran idealization. Like the time stands still at TL.net. Seriously. And I repeat: For someone like me it is detectable after 20 seconds of scanning through the article, that this is about terran idealization and a few protosses were just added in order to make it at least look a bit multidimensional. Wombat, I remember your name from 10 years ago as well. Great meetup. I am happy. Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself? And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups. Look at this: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation As if I had called for it. Is it a dream? Someone else stating their point of view on TL.net. I cannot believe my eyes yet. I didn't know this was already allowed at all, and not cancelled, like the past 10-15 years. And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh. I just thought, if there is anybody with an IQ at teamliquid worth mentioning, they would probably enjoy an honest opinion more than a conformist, terran elitist "good writeup" statement again, which is called bubble btw. nowadays. Yo! Read my article, god dammit... you don't seem to hold back with criticism so give me your most honest and constructive shot! BTW: My analysis from roughly 1 year ago was also not cancelled  | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1236 Posts
On June 01 2025 07:20 LSN wrote: This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else. This is actually very fair and valid criticism. Your post made me realize why I too cared so little about this article: however well it is written, it is essentially a tribute to three terran players, plus a nod to Neeb, not a recount of the great memories of GSL in general. Which in itself is fine, of course, as in the article Mizenhauer writes it is his "most vivid GSL memories", and if three out of his four most salient memories all have to do with terran players, then so be it. But the headline is rather misleading in this case. A better title would be: "My fondest GSL memories: Three terrans and one foreign protoss challenger", or something to that effect. The other way round, it is disappointing that not a single zerg player is given real attention in this article, except in brief remarks relating them, of course, to the other players. Honestly, it is odd that anyone one should reflect on the history of GSL without going into any of the stories of FruitDealer, Nestea, Soulkey, Rogue, even Dark, or Serral's wins at GSL vs. the World, and so on. It is said in the preface that more articles of this sort may follow, and perhaps and hopefully they will make more room for non-terran players. But even then I think it could me made clearer that this issue is really mainly about terrans. Edit: Just to be clear, it's a cool and well-written article all the same, and I'm happy we are still getting those. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1279 Posts
Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself? And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups. "I pretend I'm only here every five years but I know exactly what your opinion is!!1" No, WombaT is not a "Terran elitist". And before you call me that: I'm on record multiple times for stating that I hate Terran. I really do. It is the most unfun, ill-designed race out there. After ZvP my favorite matchup is literally TvT, because one Terran will lose. And I still have no quarrel accepting that Maru is the 2nd best player of all time or that Clem was an absolute monster in the second half of 2025. And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh. Yes, you clearly have a lot of important and valuable things to do, as proven by your posts here? I was cancelled many times before here. Believe me. As someone who was an admin for WC3 for around 8 years: Yeah, I've heard that before. Which in 9 out of 10 cases means one of the following things: 1)Someone disagreed with you, which you label as "canceled" 2)You, like you do in your posts here, heavily missed the beat regarding your tone But I would like to offer an apology to Mizenhauer, derailing his article like this or atleast contributing to it. Which btw shows the leniency of the TL-Admins. I would have shot down that shit already. Lastly: Guys, this is more of an opinion than a news-article. And everyone saying "I'm missing some non-Terran memories"...I feel like this article was more of an invitation to share your own memories. What do you think about when you think about GSL? Instead you bitch about how the memories one guy has and cherishes are not diversified about? And just to add why I don't do that: As I said, I don't care much about GSL, never have. Therefore I don't really have any particular memory jumping up when I think about it. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On June 01 2025 21:27 Antithesis wrote: This is actually very fair and valid criticism. Your post made me realize why I too cared so little about this article: however well it is written, it is essentially a tribute to three terran players, plus a nod to Neeb, not a recount of the great memories of GSL in general. Which in itself is fine, of course, as in the article Mizenhauer writes it is his "most vivid GSL memories", and if three out of his four most salient memories all have to do with terran players, then so be it. But the headline is rather misleading in this case. A better title would be: "My fondest GSL memories: Three terrans and one foreign protoss challenger", or something to that effect. The other way round, it is disappointing that not a single zerg player is given real attention in this article, except in brief remarks relating them, of course, to the other players. Honestly, it is odd that anyone one should reflect on the history of GSL without going into any of the stories of FruitDealer, Nestea, Soulkey, Rogue, even Dark, or Serral's wins at GSL vs. the World, and so on. It is said in the preface that more articles of this sort may follow, and perhaps and hopefully they will make more room for non-terran players. But even then I think it could me made clearer that this issue is really mainly about terrans. Edit: Just to be clear, it's a cool and well-written article all the same, and I'm happy we are still getting those. The thing is, this has a large history at TL. And after all the years you would imagine they had dropped this bias history. But it is not the case. It is even more so than ever. Terran memories get socialized. And when I say, I have different memories, obviously, as everybody else, other than the terran bubble at TL.net, the lowest IQ guys come here, and say stuff like if I wanted to socialize my memories too. But I did not. You just made this up. But when I think of shared memories, I remember that probably most players gonna share the memories of terran bias at Team Liquid. But I know, that was already asking too much IQ wise. These guys didn't even get the point. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On June 01 2025 22:36 Balnazza wrote: "I pretend I'm only here every five years but I know exactly what your opinion is!!1" No, WombaT is not a "Terran elitist". And before you call me that: I'm on record multiple times for stating that I hate Terran. I really do. It is the most unfun, ill-designed race out there. After ZvP my favorite matchup is literally TvT, because one Terran will lose. And I still have no quarrel accepting that Maru is the 2nd best player of all time or that Clem was an absolute monster in the second half of 2025. Yes, you clearly have a lot of important and valuable things to do, as proven by your posts here? As someone who was an admin for WC3 for around 8 years: Yeah, I've heard that before. Which in 9 out of 10 cases means one of the following things: 1)Someone disagreed with you, which you label as "canceled" 2)You, like you do in your posts here, heavily missed the beat regarding your tone But I would like to offer an apology to Mizenhauer, derailing his article like this or atleast contributing to it. Which btw shows the leniency of the TL-Admins. I would have shot down that shit already. Lastly: Guys, this is more of an opinion than a news-article. And everyone saying "I'm missing some non-Terran memories"...I feel like this article was more of an invitation to share your own memories. What do you think about when you think about GSL? Instead you bitch about how the memories one guy has and cherishes are not diversified about? And just to add why I don't do that: As I said, I don't care much about GSL, never have. Therefore I don't really have any particular memory jumping up when I think about it. Wow, what a fail0r you are. You even try to sneak into the arses of admins here, as everybody can see. Wow. You obviously derail the the thread while I exactly talk on the topic and on point. In order to help you a little: The topic is not my cancelation, even if some of you derailers wanna put it like that. The topic the writeup itself, who would have imagined that? I just checked again, this article is a featured news article, while https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation is not. Do you see it yourself or need further explanations? I will help you again if required. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1279 Posts
On June 02 2025 00:07 LSN wrote: Wow, what a fail0r you are. You even try to sneak into the arses of admins here, as everybody can see. Wow. You obviously derail the the thread while I exactly talk on the topic and on point. In order to help you a little: The topic is not my cancelation, even if some of you derailers wanna put it like that. The topic the writeup itself, who would have imagined that? I just checked again, this article is a featured news article, while https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation is not. Do you see it yourself or need further explanations? I will help you again if required. So you are either 100% trolling or truely lack any understanding how this site is structured, huh? That's just bad, but don't worry, you will figure it out eventually \ o / | ||
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