• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:26
CEST 15:26
KST 22:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities Serious Question: Mech The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22902 users

The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL

Forum Index > SC2 General
47 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
May 27th, 2025 23:17 GMT

The Memories We Share

by Mizenhauer

This last off-season was far from normal. We're used to being strung along until the last minute, wondering how many events will be held and how low the prize money will dip. But, for the first time, we truly had to face the void. For ten months, we had to wonder if we would ever see the GSL again.

I was lucky enough to be in South Korea these past few weeks. I got a chance to visit the GSL studio, watch some games, and speak to herO, Cure, Maru and Rogue. Each of them was so grateful that they had another opportunity to play in Code S. I guess it shouldn't be surprising—it was a tournament that shaped a huge portion of their lives.

I appreciated that it was something we had so deeply in common. Code S wasn’t the first event I encountered, but it was the first to make me realize the glory of competitive StarCraft II. I never expected it would lead to me writing about the game, befriending progamers, and without getting too personal here—having my life changed in many important ways.

Watching in the studio, my most vivid GSL memories came rushing back—some good, some bad, some just funny—but all part of the same emotional fabric. With hopes of creating a few more in the coming weeks, I'd like to share them with you.


Mvp's Legendary Finals



When it comes to iconic moments in StarCraft II history, it's impossible not to start with Mvp. For me, and I would think for many other fans, the King of Wings was one of the first players to truly demand your attention during the early iterations of GSL. Time and again, he displayed a level of class that was a cut above the rest of the scene. Mind you, there were plenty of other excellent players at the time, but Mvp bordered on perfect. He starred in many high profile matches, beating virtually all of his contemporaries into submission with his own, divine style of StarCraft.

And, yet, out of all those legendary series, the most memorable must be his 2012 Code S Season 2 final against Squirtle. Even amidst thousands of series played over 15 years of competitive StarCraft II, their showdown has endured as possibly the most celebrated.

The battle between Mvp and Squirtle had the makings of a modern day epic before they even entered the booth. This was David versus Goliath. Rocky versus Drago. Roland versus the Saracens… …but somehow, the three-time GSL champion was the underdog. Earlier in his career, Mvp would have been favored against just about anyone. But in 2012, the rest of the scene had made up considerable ground, and Mvp was hobbled by wrist and shoulder injuries. His macro wasn’t as faultless as it once was, and his micro no longer bordered on surgical. Mvp, who had participated in more high pressure games than any other StarCraft II progamer, had the mental advantage of experiencing nearly every conceivable situation. But it was unclear how much that would matter against a rising star reaching the peak of his powers.

Looking back, it's surprising that nearly 65% of Liquibet users trusted in Mvp's greatness—perhaps they were inclined to vote with their hearts. The other 35% believed that time waits for no man, and that Mvp’s reign as King had reached an end.

After three games, however, it seemed as if Squirtle’s usurpation had been dead on arrival. He may have had the raw horsepower, but Mvp’s superior decision-making and calculated aggression was keeping the challenger in check. Down 3-0, the StarTale Protoss needed to show some life if he had any hope of walking away victorious. Thankfully, for his believers, Squirtle snapped out of his daze and remembered he was an unstoppable ascendent talent, and soundly defeated Mvp in a macro game to win his first map.

With that, the series turned to game five on Metropolis. We knew Squirtle needed to keep playing at the highest level to extend the series even further, but no one tuning in could have anticipated that they were about to witness one of the signature moments of StarCraft II. After a grueling 35 minute tug of war, Mvp and Squirtle began to refine their armies into the deadliest fighting forces their race could muster. For Mvp, that meant maxing out on Battlecruisers. Having left himself with a mere 20 workers, Mvp was able to assemble a massive fleet (28 to be exact) of the capital ships. Protected by a healthy number of Ghosts, it seemed as if his opponent’s 20 odd High Templars and a dozen or so Archons were in dire straits. Knowing neither player would be able to properly remax once the dust had settled, Squirtle needed to land a decisive blow.

What came next will forever stay with me. The type of memory that is so vibrant it will never fully fade. There I sat, the shadowy confines of my room, lit only by the glow of my laptop. Squirtle was trying to get his Archons into range, but Mvp’s Battlecruisers were picking them off before they could get close enough to retaliate. 'The game is his,' I thought to myself. 'Mvp has won his fourth GSL title!' There was simply no way he was going to be denied.

But, just then, from the corner of the screen, I saw a Mothership just barely drift into sight. In the time it took for my heart to skip a beat, a Vortex engulfed Mvp’s armada. I watched transfixed as everything Mvp had worked for all game was sucked down into a calamitous singularity, and was reduced to a cloud of space debris upon its exit.

[image loading]

It was clear that Squirtle's black hole hadn't just altered the outcome of a single game, but had caused a gravitational shift in the entire series. The challenger proceeded to take a third straight victory, and headed into game seven with all the cosmic momentum behind him. No one else in the game could have survived the spiral of defeat that had been set in motion. Unfortunately for Squirtle, the greatest of all time had just enough left in the tank to reach escape velocity.

To me, game seven is as much a kaleidoscope of emotions as it is a series of images. The anticipation as Mvp’s SCV's headed across the map. The relief when Squirtle's Probe failed to scout the proxy Barracks. The anxiety when the first group of Marines were nearly rebuffed by a single Zealot. The sadness when it seemed as if Mvp’s gambit had failed. The hope when Squirtle's Stalkers ventured forth too soon, only to be sandwiched between two groups of Marines. The disbelief, as a Bunker went up in the Protoss main, of seeing an unthinkable comeback unfolding before my eyes. Finally, elation as Squirtle's final Pylons went down, completing a legendary victory.

[image loading]

That was the night I realized I didn't just like competitive StarCraft II, I loved it. It lit the spark of passion that still burns within me, over ten years later. Thank you Jung Jong-hyun. Because of you, we're still here.


Neeb Nearly Sets a New Bar for "Foreigners"



Anyone who has been around TL.net for long enough has heard the term "Korean elitist." While such language might seem awfully quaint in 2025, it bears remembering that non-Korean players were almost comically outmatched during the first half of StarCraft II's history. "Almost," because one must tip their hat to Stephano, HuK, Scarlett, and a select few. However, by and large, theirs was a depressing cause to support. When the so-called "foreigners" played Koreans, it was like watching amateurs flailing helplessly against, well, professional gamers. This isn't to denigrate the effort and work ethic of foreigners at the time. Rather, it accentuates the massive advantage gained from coming up through the Korean esports ecosystem—the most successful scouting, development, and finishing apparatus that exists to this day.

Many international fans despaired at their lot in StarCraft life, but continued to valiantly keep the faith. Others sided with the winners, relishing in the endless cycle of false hope and disappointment on the opposite side of the table. Guess which lot I fell in with!

Enter Neeb. The unassuming Protoss from upstate New York shocked the world in 2016, when he won the KeSPA Cup to become the first 'foreigner' to win a StarCraft championship on Korean soil since Grrrr… back in 2000.

In the moment, it seemed that international fans might have finally found a new hope who could compete with top tier Koreans. I knew better, though. Neeb had won the event by lucking into PvP's and spamming the same build every time. Okay, maybe for once, the foreigner had a better read on the meta than the Koreans. But, in the end, he was just going to be a flash in the pan. He had struggled to beat Pet 3-2 in quarterfinals—f***ing PET.

How, then, did I find myself cheering for Neeb two years later as he stood on the brink of an even greater achievement in GSL Code S?

Neeb's first attempt to scale the walls of Code S came in 2017, which resulted in the very foreigner-ish result of being felled in the qualifiers by the lowly Hurricane. A year later, Neeb gave it another try in 2018's Season 3, and this time he got to the starting line. However, he did so by beating Dandy, Cloudy, and ByuL in the qualifiers, and the TL.net writing staff predicted a prompt RO32 elimination. Surprisingly, Neeb survived the first hurdle, defeating Losira and aLive to advance in second place. Did that change the outlook? Of course not. #1 seed Maru exercised his champion's rights during the RO16 group selections, hand-picking Neeb and Reynor as his personal punching bags. I happened to write the preview for that group, and picked Maru and Impact—not a particularly accomplished Code S player—to advance.

Obviously, Maru came in first place. However, Neeb proved me wrong, taking down Impact and Reynor to slip by as the group runner-up. Doubt only seemed to make Neeb even stronger, and in the RO8, he scored a major upset by beating an opponent of an entirely different caliber. Reigning WCS and IEM world champion Rogue had a history of underperforming in GSL Code S at the time, but even that didn't prepare audiences for Neeb's comprehensive 3-1 victory in largely straight-up games.

Neeb passed an immense milestone in doing so, becoming just the second foreigner after Jinro to reach the RO4 of Code S/GSL Open. Weighing eras against each other is tricky business, but I had to think what Neeb had done was more impressive. Jinro had made his run all the way back in 2010—hadn't the Korean hegemony become even more deeply entrenched since then?

Only one player remained standing between Neeb and a historic GSL finals appearance: another former world champion in TY.

If I had wanted to, I could have easily come up with reasons to keep doubting Neeb. All the opponents he had defeated in the group stages had been midling Code S players, and perhaps I could admit Neeb was at least at that level. However, he hadn't shown any fight against apex predators like Dark and Maru, who TY was kinda like (not really, but I could have briefly convinced myself). As for Rogue, he had been slumping hard since winning IEM Katowice—so hard, he couldn't get over his Code S RO8 jinx even when gifted a foreigner as an opponent. TY, a former world champion who was only sometimes given to self-destructing in big tournaments (really trying here), would probably take care of business against a weaker opponent.

Instead, I chose to believe in Neeb. Maybe, through five GSL match wins, I saw a quality in his play that I had never noticed before. Maybe, I started to think a bit more highly of the 2018 Hangzhou StarCraft Carnival, where Neeb had defeated both Rogue and herO to win a handsome $31,000 payday. Maybe, I liked the idea of all the TY fans being forced to admit that despite his IEM world championship, their favorite player was still a choker living in Maru’s shadow (TY had been reverse swept four times in 2017). Maybe, I had finally allowed myself to become intoxicated by the narrative, or "hopium," as overly online folks have come to call it.

As TL.net users, by and large my fellow Korean Elitists, predicted TY's victory over Neeb at a 2.6:1 ratio in Liquibet, I announced my betrayal and picked a 4-3 victory for Neeb. For eight excruciatingly long years, foreigners had stumbled into new and increasingly humiliating ways to lose. This time, I declared the roles would be reversed. It was finally time for the chosen one to plant his flag in the finals of Code S and bring the hegemony to an end.

After three games, it appeared I was onto something. TY drew first blood with proxy-Cyclones, but Neeb evened the score with solid macro play in game two, and then pulled ahead with proxy tactics of his own in game three. I was elated. I had originally sold myself on the idea that Neeb would benefit from another reverse-sweep loss from TY, or some similarly cataclysmic collapse. Now, it seemed like Neeb wouldn’t need the help at all. Messages were sent on Discord, fists were pumped, and my dog was thoroughly confused.

Then, game four happened. To this day, it’s difficult to make sense of what transpired. After a relatively normal first ten or so minutes on 16-bit, TY started a series of doom drops to turn around a game that had started to get away from him. Neeb tried to mount a defense, but his widely spread out bases turned it into a losing effort. As the drops began to threaten even his main, and his counterattacks did nothing to slow TY's aggression, Neeb decided—or was forced—to take drastic measures.

Neeb gathered his army, crossed the map, and committed to a base trade. As the destruction derby progressed, it seemed like he had shown the decisiveness of a winner. Neeb was able to reduce TY's income to virtually nothing, safely withdraw his army to his main, and then catch a huge chunk of TY's forces that had waited too long to flee. A Blink forward took out multiple full Medivacs—the very choke I had been looking for!—leaving Neeb with a commanding army advantage and one mostly full mining base remaining.

To a viewer with full information, Neeb's road to victory was clear. All he had to do was withdraw to his last mining base, let basic economics take over, and receive the GG that would give him a 3-1 lead. From there, he would have no problem closing out the series in whatever manner he'd like.

Except, none of that happened.

Veteran SC2 viewers know that basetrades are not the most well-practiced scenario for progamers and accept that there will be some misplays and blunders. But even the most understanding fans would have had trouble giving Neeb a pass. Instead of consolidating his lead, Neeb sent his army across the map again, seemingly intent on cleaning up the imaginary scraps of TY's economy. TY realized the gift he had been given, and sent a small squad of infantry to destroy the full expansion. Even then, it wasn't too late for Neeb to withdraw, as distance-mining from his main Nexus would still net him a slow but sure win. Instead, he let TY's commandos march right into his main and destroy his last remaining Nexus, even as he had full energy for recall.

[image loading]

All of the sudden, Neeb's army advantage was almost completely negated. TY didn't have a chance at destroying the remaining Protoss buildings with his measly army, but a bankrupt Neeb didn't have a way to build the single air unit needed to hit the Terran buildings floating into the dead air surrounding the map. After a few minutes of scouring the terrestrial portions of the battlefield, Neeb realized the situation he was in. Instead of receiving the GG that had been due to him minutes ago, he was the first to send his opponent a message: "draw?"

[image loading]

From there, TY proceeded to win the rematch to tie the series, followed by two proxy-Cyclone builds to take the 4-2 win.

To this day I’m flabbergasted by what happened. Despite the final result being a 4-2 victory for TY, it was a series where Neeb very well could have advanced to the finals. In fact, I’m willing to say he should have. After a rocky start, he outplayed TY in games two, three, and 99.99% of four. All he had to do was recall a few seconds earlier.

While it was certainly an embarrassing loss for Neeb, in the big picture, you still had to see it as a huge career win. No, he didn't achieve the greatest foreigner GSL run of all time, but being only the second ever to reach the RO4 still goes down in GSL history as pretty damn great.

As for me, my Liquibets were left in shambles, I was relentlessly mocked on Discord, and my dog went back to sleep. But, overall, it turned out rooting for a foreigner wasn't so bad—maybe it was even a little fun! At least, it was interesting enough to remain as one of my most memorable moments from the GSL.


Unfortunately, INnoVation Becomes the GOAT



Being a fan of the GSL is very much about cheering for players you love, but it's also about coming to appreciate the ones you don't. For me, one of the most unlovable players was INnoVation.

No sooner had Mvp left for WCS Europe after setting the all-time standard for greatness in Korea, then did INnoVation emerge as a prospective heir in 2013. It seemed early for a player who had only begun playing StarCraft II in mid-2012, but his gameplay was already reminiscent of the all-around perfection Mvp had shown during in 2011 prime. "The Machine" felt like the ultimate weapon developed by the KeSPA industrial complex, designed specifically to erase the accomplishments of StarCraft II's pioneers.

It didn't take long for me to dislike him. Generation change is inevitable, but it couldn't have come with a less interesting face. INnoVation was everything I didn’t want in a pro StarCraft II player. He was the antithesis of Maru’s free-flowing, creative, electric playstyle—INnoVation was the embodiment of repetitive, rigid, perfection. He paved his legacy by out-expanding, out-producing, and steamrolling his opponent’s with all the finesse of, well, a steam roller.

He lacked the creativity of a Rogue or sOs, or the humanizing flaws of Zest and his bank. Even far lesser players could earn an ounce of my affection with a cheeky ceremony—all INnoVation offered was that knowing smirk. He couldn't even keep the KeSPA takeover storyline going, spending a year with Europe's Acer to sample the international circuit.

I couldn't stand each of his wins against soO, which came to number one-hundred and fifteen. I shook my head despondently when he utterly demolished sOs during the 2013 WCS Season 1 Finals. I seethed when he ended Cure's Cinderella run in the 2014 Code S Season 1 semifinals. I despaired when he coldly denied ByuL his last chance at winning a major title in the 2015 Code S Season 3 finals. I learned what true injustice was when he essentially took 2016 off, only to casually resume running roughshod over all my favorites the next year.

I reveled in moments like a supposedly washed-up Mvp winning his famous comeback on Akilon Wastes at INnoVation's expense. I cackled when his machine logic bugged out, and his army meandered uselessly around the map in an unfamiliar game situation. I still pump my fist every time I rewatch his mech army being destroyed by Maru's brilliant bio envelopment in Proleague.

Of course, my flimsy bastion of cope was meaningless in the face of the most destructive force StarCraft II had ever seen up to that time. INnoVation always won when he felt like winning—which thankfully wasn't all the time—but it was far more often than any other player of his era. Gradually, he racked up the titles needed to match Mvp in terms of resume.

In 2017, INnoVation started his most dominant career run in terms of collecting titles. He claimed three major titles in just the first eight months of the year, winning IEM Gyeonggi (technically held in December of 2016, but officially the start of WCS 2017), SSL Season 1, and GSL vs the World. There's something INnoVation didn't know at the time, and had he had known, he couldn't have cared less. But just like his parade pushes of Marines had defeated so many Zergs, his onslaught of championships was slowly beating down another opponent. I was becoming resigned to, maybe even respectful of his greatness.

In the days following INnoVation’s 4-0 victory against TY in the finals of GSL vs the World (an event in which he went an absurd 13-1), I gave the following admission.

“I’m still trying to wrap my head around it. As I drove to the supermarket it was all I could think about. INnoVation has won GSL vs The World. The argument against him being the best player of all time is growing thinner and thinner. I don’t want to admit it, but I’m starting to resign myself that he very well could be. He is an ascendant talent. A player who makes terms like generational seem mild praise. He is far and away the strongest player in the world right now and shows no signs of letting up.”

With three GSL titles to his name—two Code S and one GSL vs. World—INnoVation was already walking on rarefied air headed into 2017 Code S Season 3. Another Code S win would see him match Mvp exactly for GSL titles, alongside a similar haul of trophies in other events. The once impossible mark seemed doomed to be passed if INnoVation continued to play anywhere close to the same level for the rest of the year.

In a way, you could say my prayers were answered as INnoVation didn’t look nearly as imperious during Season 3. He dropped a game to Scarlett and a match to GuMiho in the group stages, and his focus didn't seem to improve in the playoffs. He jumped out to a 2-0 lead against ByuN in the RO8, but was nearly reverse-swept before he salvaged the situation. The semifinals was no better, as Dark took INnoVation the distance before The Machine dug deep in game seven to secure a spot in the finals against sOs.

Had it been any other player, I might have enjoyed INnoVation's run. He looked more man than machine, and he had reached the finals by channeling the best version of himself just long enough to survive. This iteration of INnoVation was dogged and resolute, traits I valued and adored in a StarCraft player. It was almost reminiscent of Mvp's fourth title run.

And, yet, I couldn’t help but be really pissed off. Even worse was the fact that I had little to no faith in sOs’ ability to defeat INnoVation in the BO7 finals. He would do his best to outfox INnoVation, of that I had no doubt, but you can only steal so many games with trickery and guile.

As was expected, sOs managed to drag INnoVation down into the muck with bizarre builds and peculiar decision making. But what I didn’t expect was for INnoVation to get stuck in the swamp, and for the score to be tied at three apiece after six games. However, just as he had done all season, INnoVation managed to barely keep his head above water until the very end, while sOs drowned in the mire of his own creation. sOs was forced to play a relatively standard strategy in game seven, and INnoVation closed him out with an equally standard tank push.

[image loading]

INnoVation is mildly amused at winning his third championship in a tournament dozens of others have spent their entire careers trying to win and failed.

Back at home, I felt as defeated as sOs. A legacy of a man who had brought me so much joy with his humanity had been eradicated by a machine. At the same time, I was resigned to reality. While I could be emotional about players, I always did my best to stay clear-eyed when it came to assessing their ability. This much seemed clear: I would forever live in a world where INnoVation was better than Mvp, and the greatest of all time.

I begrudgingly acknowledged INnoVation's greatness all those years ago, but I still don’t worship at the altar of INnoVation. However, I know that it doesn’t matter how I feel, or how I tell myself I should feel, because you simply can’t tell the story of GSL without INnoVation. He played a part in too many games that I will always hold dear, and a part of too many important moments that I both cherish and lament.

Looking back, the unforgettable dominance with which he trampled one opponent after another made it inevitable he would become an undeniable part of GSL history. So, I’ll say it now in no uncertain terms. I don’t like INnoVation. I don’t admire INnoVation. I don’t even enjoy watching him play. None of that matters. There will never be anyone quite like him. And, for that, INnoVation will always have my respect.

Maru Wins His First GSL Code S



The longest running tournament in StarCraft II forces you to appreciate that without the lows, you can't fully appreciate the highs. And, in terms of lows, it would be an understatement to say that the release of Legacy of the Void tested my fandom.

Coming off the back of Heart of the Swarm, in which all my favorite players won major tournaments or thrived in Proleague, I found far fewer moments to cheer for. But after a bleak 2016 tolerating the 2/1/1, 3 Barracks Reaper openings, and super powered Ultralisks, 2017 came to my rescue. soO, herO, and sOs regained the type of form that had made me a fan during HotS. Meanwhile, new stars such as Stats, Dark, and TY continued to push the game to increasingly entertaining levels. Even Rogue, someone I had always supported for his quirky play in Proleague, unexpectedly became the best player in the world (albeit, I resented that he did so by becoming the foremost abuser of the dreaded Hydra-Ling-Bane composition).

However, as 2017 came to a close, there was one player who seemed to have not received the memo about how great the year was supposed to be for me. Where the f*** was Maru?

Rising to prominence in WoL for his prodigious talent at a young age, Maru had become a phenomenon in Heart of the Swarm. He may have been reserved and sheepish in real life, but in-game, he was brash, brazen, and brave. While other Terrans resorted to SCV pull all-ins, Maru played the macro game and charged down enemy Colossus with infantry. When other Terrans turned to turtle mech as a way to battle Zergs, Maru remained a staunch advocate of the far more entertaining Marine-Medivac-Marauder composition. Every game Maru played, win or lose, had you on the edge of your seat.

[image loading]

Somehow, the iconic image of Maru's HotS run doesn't include him at all.

Some of that ability did carry over to Legacy of the Void, where he led Jin Air to victory in the final, 2016 season of Proleague with an absurd 22-4 record. However, on the individual front, he might as well have been invisible. Actually, scratch that. He probably would have been better off being invisible, given all the laughable ways he lost over the course of the first two years of Legacy of the Void.

In 2016, he achieved just a single Code S appearance, which ended with him bombing out in the RO16. He improved in the following year, but still performed far below the level his talent demanded. Midway through 2017, six odd months into my tenure of writing for TL.net, I put pen to paper and made sure everyone knew exactly how I felt.

"When Maru’s in form he’s unstoppable. Every move, no matter how reckless it may appear, just goes his way. He makes people look silly. He even makes people cry. He’s a wrecking ball and his opponents are reduced to an unsightly destitute wall you find yourself wanting to fall.

And then he’s none of that. Maru's inability to maintain composure in critical situations is probably the greatest flaw that’s prevented him from becoming the best player in SC2 history. Go back to his biggest failures and watch how he manages to flub what ought to be simple tasks. He fails to build Turrets against Dark Templars. He leaves Depots down against Zergling run bys. Overcommitting into Marine surrounds. The community understandably tries to strike these errors from memory, but the simple fact remains. Just as Maru can be the best player in the world, he's prone to crumbling in an instant."


To be fair to Maru, my harshness may have been due to my high expectations. After all, some of my favorite wins were his OSL and SSL championship runs during Heart of the Swarm, and no one could have accused him of being un-clutch at the time. But, by 2017, it had been years since he had won a major individual title, and I feared that the magic that had made him one of my favorite players to watch had departed for a new vessel.

The way he closed out the year only made things worse. In Season 3 of Code S, he collapsed in the RO32 with 0-2 losses to Solar and a thoroughly washed up jjakji. Maru may have been skilled. He may have been fast. He may have even been the best player in the world at some point in the past. In that moment, however, it seemed like what he was best at was finding ways to lose.

As Maru entered 2018 Code S Season 1, I had to wonder if he was even one of the top three Terrans in the world. His group stage performances were hardly reassuring, as he snuck by in second place in both the RO32 and RO16. Nothing was convincing about his 3-2 victory over sOs in the RO8, and I was trepidatious ahead of his semifinal match against Dark.

However, even if I was prone to occasional bouts of despair, my heart won out and I proudly placed my Liquibet in favor of Maru. My ember of hope was rewarded, and Maru played superb StarCraft II to defeat Dark 4-2 and reach the Code S finals for the first time in his career. Fandom being fickle as it is, as suddenly as Maru's ability in big matches was rehabilitated, so was my faith fully restored.

Maru's finals opponent was to be Stats, who was in the midst of one of the greatest three year runs in StarCraft II history up to that point. Tournament results from LotV suggested Stats should be the heavy favorite, but every recollection of Maru's peak ability pushed it toward being dead even.

In the end, Stats showed every bit of his class, but this new version of Maru could not be denied. Unstoppable offense melded with impenetrable defense (which would soon become a new hallmark of Maru's play), and after four quick games, Maru led 3-1. Even Maru's game five loss felt like a moral victory in a way, as he showed all the offensive verve of the boy who had once made StarCraft II appointment viewing back in HotS. Maru sealed the deal in game six, confidently barrelling through Stats' Templars with Ghosts at his back. The GSL, Korea's sole-remaining major, had chronicled Maru's fall from grace. Finally, it had recorded his triumphant redemption.

[image loading]


I’ll never forget the beaming smile and the look of relief on Maru’s face when Stats’ GG’d for the final time. And, while I could try and recontextualize my feelings in hindsight, I think my words in the immediate aftermath put it best:

“Watching Maru win the GSL finals and kiss the trophy warmed my soul in a way all my cold calculations could not. He had done what I thought was impossible. His consistency, his creativity, his sheer bravado—everything was back the way it should have been. It was incomprehensible. It flew in the face of reason. Everything had been going so wrong for so long…

…I have this platform now, so I can talk about Maru to people other than my dad. That's good, because he wouldn't give me nearly as much s*** as I deserve. I was wrong about Maru. I wrote him off when I really shouldn’t have. I may never find a satisfactory reason as to how Maru turned everything around and became the best version of himself, but that's not too important. Turns out, I don’t know everything. I don't have to know everything. This time, it feels right to be wrong.”



*****


Maybe there won’t be GSL next year, but I’ll always be thankful for this summer. I got to revisit the tournament that gave me Mvp versus Squirtle, and the time Maru finally got across the finish line. The place where Neeb nearly blew everyone’s mind, and INnoVation finally changed mine. No matter when it is that we finally have to say goodbye, we'll still have our memories that made us love the Global StarCraft II League.

Credits and acknowledgements

Writer: Mizenhauer
Editor: Wax
Images: SOOP (formerly AfreecaTV), TEN (formerly SpoTV)
Records and Statistics: Aligulac.com and Liquipedia

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33299 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-28 01:52:33
May 27 2025 23:19 GMT
#2
Glad everyone could join Mizenhauer for this therapy session around his INnoVation trauma.

Some fans are of the disposition to celebrate all SC2 players equally, and think positively about whatever big or small contribution they bring to the game. Those fans are cowards
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
tommey.liang
Profile Joined November 2020
United States362 Posts
May 28 2025 01:12 GMT
#3
Great write-up! What a trip down memory lane through all of the historic moments of GSL.
FF, KH, Persona, Uncharted, Yakuza | Porter, Illenium, MitiS, Dabin, Seven Lions, Petit Biscuit | Diablo II, SC2 | Pho, sushi, tacos
uselless
Profile Joined April 2021
91 Posts
May 28 2025 01:19 GMT
#4
This article made me reflect and feel glad I picked the right guy when starting to watch SC2 in 2018
maru :D
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24796 Posts
May 28 2025 01:21 GMT
#5
Beautiful writeup and some good prompts to get rewatching some of those series!

I doubt Mvp versus Squirtle will ever be topped for high-stakes drama and entertainment, truly a series that had everything.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13828 Posts
May 28 2025 01:38 GMT
#6
I was there at the start. I'll be there at the end. Some great memories to remember.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12351 Posts
May 28 2025 06:06 GMT
#7
this really feels like the end of an era.
sc2 is such a big part of my life, barcraft, all the new youtube channels, the start of big streaming era, esports.
the toxic, the drama, the balance whining, gomplayer, john the translator.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1521 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-28 06:44:04
May 28 2025 06:43 GMT
#8
This is wild to me. The support just isn't there or im sure GSL would be able to continue going. For instance RSL has $11,000/month in funding, where as GSL has $5,800/month. Not to knock RSL, they absolutely deserve it but the viewers have voted, and they rather support RSL than GSL. Sure, some support both, but by in large there is much more support for RSL.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
Lockdown-
Profile Joined May 2003
United States297 Posts
May 28 2025 08:10 GMT
#9
Excellent article. I watched these games myself and this brought back many memories.
MJG
Profile Joined May 2018
United Kingdom895 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-28 09:41:38
May 28 2025 08:34 GMT
#10
On May 28 2025 15:43 CicadaSC wrote:
This is wild to me. The support just isn't there or im sure GSL would be able to continue going. For instance RSL has $11,000/month in funding, where as GSL has $5,800/month. Not to knock RSL, they absolutely deserve it but the viewers have voted, and they rather support RSL than GSL. Sure, some support both, but by in large there is much more support for RSL.

It's almost as if engaging with the community helps.

EDIT:

Another great article Miz.

I really miss the Archon toilet. That Mvp vs. Squirtle series is easily one of the best series ever.

WoL was just so much more hype... until the unit composition we don't talk about... which was still better than the HotS unit that we don't talk about...
British Protoss || "You have to play for yourself, you have to play to get better; you can't play to make other people happy, that's not gonna ever sustain you." - NonY
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States444 Posts
May 28 2025 14:03 GMT
#11
The soulkey reverse sweep on inno might be the only thing saving Miz from Goat inno lmao.

Awesome write up thanks for bringing some memories back
YetiSpaghetti
Profile Joined March 2024
2 Posts
May 28 2025 18:02 GMT
#12
I’d like to add 2016 Season 2 when Taeja pulled off a miracle win to knock the reigning champ Zest out in the group stages. GSL is full of so many great memories
Rotrot
Profile Joined February 2025
2 Posts
May 28 2025 18:16 GMT
#13
How can you mention INno dominance and not mention the Soulkey reverse sweep? One of the greatest moments of all time for me, though that was probably when I was most into playing SC2 then.
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States871 Posts
May 28 2025 18:50 GMT
#14
I think of INno as the Terran version of Serral. Never super flashy or cheesy, just pure consistent dominance in standard macro games. Though I guess that would explain why Miz ranked both INno and Serral 1 step below where I would have put them in the unedited GOAT list
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-28 19:30:11
May 28 2025 19:24 GMT
#15
Mizen's MVP vs Squirtle moment for me was Fruitdealer winning the first GSL. although i guess it was technically not called GSL back then.

also crazy to think that Maru had been playing for equally as long as that memory and how long it took for him to finally win a Code S. bonus points for how different the game is today yet we're still watching and he's still winning
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3575 Posts
May 28 2025 22:29 GMT
#16
On May 28 2025 15:06 ETisME wrote:
this really feels like the end of an era.
sc2 is such a big part of my life, barcraft, all the new youtube channels, the start of big streaming era, esports.
the toxic, the drama, the balance whining, gomplayer, john the translator.

its pretty mad

also slightly sad that all my friends IRL will never understand
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2716 Posts
May 28 2025 23:51 GMT
#17
The Inno Soulkey reverse sweep was insane. It's only happened once in all 50 finals of Code S + the 2010 opens, 10 of which were 4-3's. Out of all 115 GSL tournaments, the only other time a reverse sweep final happened was sOs vs Classic in the 2nd 2018 super tournament.

Life vs Parting in the 2015 season 1 final was pretty sick too. My other most memorable moments would be every time Scarlett cheesed Rogue out of the group stage :^)
very illegal and very uncool
rwala
Profile Joined December 2019
275 Posts
May 29 2025 00:35 GMT
#18
Thanks for the write up!
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2626 Posts
May 29 2025 06:35 GMT
#19
As someone who started watching very close to the start its actually incredible seeing the way Maru developed, he used to be a cheesy player, its funny because GSL had a history of royal roaders, even his biggest rival (for a time) in Life was the opposite of him, a player that exploded out of nowhere and was a prodigy. Meanwhile you could follow Maru's career and see him get better with time and experience.
robih
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria1086 Posts
May 29 2025 13:02 GMT
#20
surprised the Soulkey 2013 season1 run didn't make the list
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2213 Posts
May 30 2025 07:59 GMT
#21
Lovely memories
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44106 Posts
May 30 2025 10:50 GMT
#22
Awesome write-up; good times
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
gilmorevickie247
Profile Joined May 2025
1 Post
May 30 2025 18:29 GMT
#23
--- Nuked ---
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3343 Posts
May 30 2025 18:30 GMT
#24
There is a good discussion to be had about which players you like and which players you dislike to see win. I was annoyed for most of inno wins I'm pretty sure. I was upset at rain 'faceless korean' for winning hsc. I disliked soO's idiotic playstyle of sheet brute force, but that changed with his 2nd place storyline, he rly became an avatar of vigor, you might say. I have the same with maru to some degree, but it rly is impressive how he keeps showing up at finals though you wouldn't expect it, but i guess that shows a faulty in my prediction powers.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
dedede
Profile Joined March 2024
United States48 Posts
May 31 2025 03:07 GMT
#25
Amazing write up Miz! I was reading it and those memories came back to me as well (I can never forget Maru's smile after he won GSL 2018S1 as well. He doesn't smile like that after winning now I hope I will see that smile again). GSL means so much to me and we all have so many memories. Neeb vs TY was also my all time favorite TVP in GSL as well. I too was not a big fan of Inno because of his style. I also love Gumiho's win in 2017. Although I hope GSL will never end but for the last 8 months I'm accepting that we might not have GSL at some points, I will always remember the good memories and re-watch the games now and then, and I wish all the GSL players/casters/producers/staffs absolutely all the best in life and may they get all the happiness much more than the tremendous happiness they have brought to me in GSL. GSL4EVER!
Terran
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
May 31 2025 22:20 GMT
#26
On May 28 2025 08:19 Waxangel wrote:
Glad everyone could join Mizenhauer for this therapy session around his INnoVation trauma.

Some fans are of the disposition to celebrate all SC2 players equally, and think positively about whatever big or small contribution they bring to the game. Those fans are cowards


I know you guys don't want to hear it. But maybe this is the last chance for you to hear an honest opinion about what you guys do here at TL.net.

I have probably visited TL.net 3-4 Times in the last 5 years, logged into my account maybe once or twice during that time. Not even sure why. Probably I wanted to see who were the last tournament winners.

But:
Whenever I come here I get disgusted pretty quickly.
Whenever I come here, I see the same dudes talking about the same things.
The same people giving their same biased opinions.
The same idolization of Terran players over everybody else as the last 15 years from Team Liquid staff.
This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else. Everyone else mentioned in this article is only to make it look less biased than it actually is. I can already know this without reading it.
This is the same as 10 years ago, when I was still actively playing SC2.

I have never investigated, but I would assume that Mizenhauer is a terran player himself. Just as Waxangel is too, right?
Is he even a good player or does he only think highly of himself and his biased rankings and Terran idolizations?
Why would I want to read the same biased opinions over and over again? No progress since 10 years.

Now the question is, why cant you guys evolve? Why cant you let other people in? Why can't you allow other people to state differing opinions from yours? Why is it always the same biased guy (or 2-3 guys) making a best of ranking, writing biased articles like this and so on and so forth.

I will probably never come back here. I dont care if you delete my account or this post. You will probably feel the urge to do so. There are so many beautiful things in life. Starcraft 2 is not one of them. Deal with it.

No, and we don't share the same memories either: The memories I have on this game are mostly games that I played myself, how I defeated Adelscott, ActionJesus in a tournament in 2010 for example and then lost to Grubby who got told which styles I played at this time and was extremely prepared. I played my very own builds at this time, even if they were less efficient, I knew nobody would know them yet, hahaha. That is an amazing memory.

Anyway, I am not sure about if I should write this. Maybe it is just the best idea to leave you guys doing what you do and hide the mirror, instead of putting it directly in front of your faces. ... and leave for good.

Calling this 'Innovation trauma' is already a good start, however. At least I can see this way, that you guys know about your own biases and are not totally numb yet.

And I want to add this: Probably I don't know how much work you guys put into TL, so I cannot cherish.
However, it is what it is and I will be honest about it: I get disgusted when I see articles from Waxangel and Mizenhauer already before reading them. I would assume I am not the only one, but like myself, all others have left you alone already long time ago.
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-31 22:56:42
May 31 2025 22:33 GMT
#27
On May 29 2025 22:02 robih wrote:
surprised the Soulkey 2013 season1 run didn't make the list


The reason is he is a zerg and not a terran and TL.net staff is the definition of bias. When looking at Mizenhauer or Waxangel (I am not even sure if they are different people), you look at extremely narrow minded persons who try to generalize their very own view on things and make it appear like this is a popular or majority opinion, while it is mostly not.

Edit:
Let me expand on this:

The starcraft 2 community was large enough to create, find and allow many different people with many different views to write on TeamLiquid. Instead very few guys filled out all the space, so that you had to read stuff from the same origin for 10-15 years.

The question is, how can this even happen? How can after 10-15 years only the same two guys post their opinions on stuff here over and over again still?

This is also a leadership problem. Pointing at Liquid Nazgul. We can already know that Nazgul is a weak leader to allow this to happen.

The answer is pretty simple: Abuse of power. This is pretty obvious after 15 years. There is no other factor that can cause this result than abuse of powers after this amount of time.

They have fat asses sitting in their places and use their power to exactly not allow anybody else in, who could create representation of different opinions, what would be required to make TeamLiquid.net an interesting platform to read articles from, which in return it is not anymore since a long time.
dedede
Profile Joined March 2024
United States48 Posts
June 01 2025 01:46 GMT
#28
On June 01 2025 07:20 LSN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2025 08:19 Waxangel wrote:
Glad everyone could join Mizenhauer for this therapy session around his INnoVation trauma.

Some fans are of the disposition to celebrate all SC2 players equally, and think positively about whatever big or small contribution they bring to the game. Those fans are cowards


I know you guys don't want to hear it. But maybe this is the last chance for you to hear an honest opinion about what you guys do here at TL.net.

I have probably visited TL.net 3-4 Times in the last 5 years, logged into my account maybe once or twice during that time. Not even sure why. Probably I wanted to see who were the last tournament winners.

But:
Whenever I come here I get disgusted pretty quickly.
Whenever I come here, I see the same dudes talking about the same things.
The same people giving their same biased opinions.
The same idolization of Terran players over everybody else as the last 15 years from Team Liquid staff.
This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else. Everyone else mentioned in this article is only to make it look less biased than it actually is. I can already know this without reading it.
This is the same as 10 years ago, when I was still actively playing SC2.

I have never investigated, but I would assume that Mizenhauer is a terran player himself. Just as Waxangel is too, right?
Is he even a good player or does he only think highly of himself and his biased rankings and Terran idolizations?
Why would I want to read the same biased opinions over and over again? No progress since 10 years.

Now the question is, why cant you guys evolve? Why cant you let other people in? Why can't you allow other people to state differing opinions from yours? Why is it always the same biased guy (or 2-3 guys) making a best of ranking, writing biased articles like this and so on and so forth.

I will probably never come back here. I dont care if you delete my account or this post. You will probably feel the urge to do so. There are so many beautiful things in life. Starcraft 2 is not one of them. Deal with it.

No, and we don't share the same memories either: The memories I have on this game are mostly games that I played myself, how I defeated Adelscott, ActionJesus in a tournament in 2010 for example and then lost to Grubby who got told which styles I played at this time and was extremely prepared. I played my very own builds at this time, even if they were less efficient, I knew nobody would know them yet, hahaha. That is an amazing memory.

Anyway, I am not sure about if I should write this. Maybe it is just the best idea to leave you guys doing what you do and hide the mirror, instead of putting it directly in front of your faces. ... and leave for good.

Calling this 'Innovation trauma' is already a good start, however. At least I can see this way, that you guys know about your own biases and are not totally numb yet.

And I want to add this: Probably I don't know how much work you guys put into TL, so I cannot cherish.
However, it is what it is and I will be honest about it: I get disgusted when I see articles from Waxangel and Mizenhauer already before reading them. I would assume I am not the only one, but like myself, all others have left you alone already long time ago.


Chill, man. A lot of us have fond memories of GSL, and this write-up is meant to celebrate those moments together—especially now, when it might be the last GSL (though I really hope it’s not). Of course, there’s a lot more that could be included—like Byun’s GSL run, or Dear and Zest’s royal roads—but with the amount of effort involved, it’s impossible to cover everything. We can always share more memories in this thread.
Terran
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
June 01 2025 01:47 GMT
#29
Great writeup! Thanks for revisiting the memories.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24796 Posts
June 01 2025 02:13 GMT
#30
On June 01 2025 07:33 LSN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2025 22:02 robih wrote:
surprised the Soulkey 2013 season1 run didn't make the list


The reason is he is a zerg and not a terran and TL.net staff is the definition of bias. When looking at Mizenhauer or Waxangel (I am not even sure if they are different people), you look at extremely narrow minded persons who try to generalize their very own view on things and make it appear like this is a popular or majority opinion, while it is mostly not.

Edit:
Let me expand on this:

The starcraft 2 community was large enough to create, find and allow many different people with many different views to write on TeamLiquid. Instead very few guys filled out all the space, so that you had to read stuff from the same origin for 10-15 years.

The question is, how can this even happen? How can after 10-15 years only the same two guys post their opinions on stuff here over and over again still?

This is also a leadership problem. Pointing at Liquid Nazgul. We can already know that Nazgul is a weak leader to allow this to happen.

The answer is pretty simple: Abuse of power. This is pretty obvious after 15 years. There is no other factor that can cause this result than abuse of powers after this amount of time.

They have fat asses sitting in their places and use their power to exactly not allow anybody else in, who could create representation of different opinions, what would be required to make TeamLiquid.net an interesting platform to read articles from, which in return it is not anymore since a long time.

Have you proposed or brought articles to TL, have any idea of the process?

I have, they were receptive. I decided I didn’t have the bandwidth or the time to really deliver to the requisite quality I, or TL would expect for such articles.

The blogs, hell the forum itself exist to fill in gaps of opinions.

It’s time-consuming, unpaid work that also requires one to be a decent writer. I imagine plenty have the talent, but don’t want to commit to that, and I’m sure they get those willing but who lack the talent (yours truly haha).

Your last few posts are far more myopically biased than anything I can recall TL sticking up as a front page article. Bias can make for entertaining reading so hey, that can be fine but you’re also making assumptions and assertions that are completely wrong.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1123 Posts
June 01 2025 04:05 GMT
#31
On June 01 2025 07:20 LSN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2025 08:19 Waxangel wrote:
Glad everyone could join Mizenhauer for this therapy session around his INnoVation trauma.

Some fans are of the disposition to celebrate all SC2 players equally, and think positively about whatever big or small contribution they bring to the game. Those fans are cowards


I know you guys don't want to hear it. But maybe this is the last chance for you to hear an honest opinion about what you guys do here at TL.net.

I have probably visited TL.net 3-4 Times in the last 5 years, logged into my account maybe once or twice during that time. Not even sure why. Probably I wanted to see who were the last tournament winners.

But:
Whenever I come here I get disgusted pretty quickly.
Whenever I come here, I see the same dudes talking about the same things.
The same people giving their same biased opinions.
The same idolization of Terran players over everybody else as the last 15 years from Team Liquid staff.
This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else. Everyone else mentioned in this article is only to make it look less biased than it actually is. I can already know this without reading it.
This is the same as 10 years ago, when I was still actively playing SC2.

I have never investigated, but I would assume that Mizenhauer is a terran player himself. Just as Waxangel is too, right?
Is he even a good player or does he only think highly of himself and his biased rankings and Terran idolizations?
Why would I want to read the same biased opinions over and over again? No progress since 10 years.

Now the question is, why cant you guys evolve? Why cant you let other people in? Why can't you allow other people to state differing opinions from yours? Why is it always the same biased guy (or 2-3 guys) making a best of ranking, writing biased articles like this and so on and so forth.

I will probably never come back here. I dont care if you delete my account or this post. You will probably feel the urge to do so. There are so many beautiful things in life. Starcraft 2 is not one of them. Deal with it.

No, and we don't share the same memories either: The memories I have on this game are mostly games that I played myself, how I defeated Adelscott, ActionJesus in a tournament in 2010 for example and then lost to Grubby who got told which styles I played at this time and was extremely prepared. I played my very own builds at this time, even if they were less efficient, I knew nobody would know them yet, hahaha. That is an amazing memory.

Anyway, I am not sure about if I should write this. Maybe it is just the best idea to leave you guys doing what you do and hide the mirror, instead of putting it directly in front of your faces. ... and leave for good.

Calling this 'Innovation trauma' is already a good start, however. At least I can see this way, that you guys know about your own biases and are not totally numb yet.

And I want to add this: Probably I don't know how much work you guys put into TL, so I cannot cherish.
However, it is what it is and I will be honest about it: I get disgusted when I see articles from Waxangel and Mizenhauer already before reading them. I would assume I am not the only one, but like myself, all others have left you alone already long time ago.



Sooooo, essentially you are mad that Mizenhauers memories about GSL do not consist of you playing tournaments in 2010? Are you having a stroke or something?

This was a fun read, even for me, who really does not care much about GSL - or Terran for that matter. But just learning about these things, what they mean for different people is just interesting.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-01 08:23:23
June 01 2025 07:36 GMT
#32
Well maybe that was a bit of an unfair assessment. Who cares? I have been treated unfairly by this website dozens of times before myself.

But I will give you that. I should have written "great writeup" instead I guess. My goodness, calm down again.

The key points still stay true: They are selling opinion as facts and the origin, the source, is always the same 1, 2 or 3 guys. And this means something, when you visit this website literally once per year. I just remember the Taeja shittery from some years back.

The question still holds: Why would I wanna read this terran idealization over and over and over and over again on TL.net? I cannot see progress from a decade back from that.

Btw. I have done my homework meanwhiles, and did some research on both guys running TL. They are in fact different people. I watched the interviews this morning. Because I wanted to get thorow.

They seem reasonable, well reflected people. And still I wonder why when I visit this website after one year, the first thing that pops to my eye is again a story of Terran idealization. Like the time stands still at TL.net. Seriously.


And I repeat: For someone like me it is detectable after 20 seconds of scanning through the article, that this is about terran idealization and a few protosses were just added in order to make it at least look a bit multidimensional.

Wombat, I remember your name from 10 years ago as well. Great meetup. I am happy.

On June 01 2025 11:13 WombaT wrote:
It’s time-consuming, unpaid work that also requires one to be a decent writer. I imagine plenty have the talent, but don’t want to commit to that, and I’m sure they get those willing but who lack the talent (yours truly haha).


Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself?
And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups.

Look at this: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation

As if I had called for it. Is it a dream? Someone else stating their point of view on TL.net. I cannot believe my eyes yet. I didn't know this was already allowed at all, and not cancelled, like the past 10-15 years.

And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh.

I just thought, if there is anybody with an IQ at teamliquid worth mentioning, they would probably enjoy an honest opinion more than a conformist, terran elitist "good writeup" statement again, which is called bubble btw. nowadays.

dedede
Profile Joined March 2024
United States48 Posts
June 01 2025 08:34 GMT
#33
On June 01 2025 16:36 LSN wrote:
Well maybe that was a bit of an unfair assessment. Who cares? I have been treated unfairly by this website dozens of times before myself.

But I will give you that. I should have written "great writeup" instead I guess. My goodness, calm down again.

The key points still stay true: They are selling opinion as facts and the origin, the source, is always the same 1, 2 or 3 guys. And this means something, when you visit this website literally once per year. I just remember the Taeja shittery from some years back.

The question still holds: Why would I wanna read this terran idealization over and over and over and over again on TL.net? I cannot see progress from a decade back from that.

Btw. I have done my homework meanwhiles, and did some research on both guys running TL. They are in fact different people. I watched the interviews this morning. Because I wanted to get thorow.

They seem reasonable, well reflected people. And still I wonder why when I visit this website after one year, the first thing that pops to my eye is again a story of Terran idealization. Like the time stands still at TL.net. Seriously.


And I repeat: For someone like me it is detectable after 20 seconds of scanning through the article, that this is about terran idealization and a few protosses were just added in order to make it at least look a bit multidimensional.

Wombat, I remember your name from 10 years ago as well. Great meetup. I am happy.

Show nested quote +
On June 01 2025 11:13 WombaT wrote:
It’s time-consuming, unpaid work that also requires one to be a decent writer. I imagine plenty have the talent, but don’t want to commit to that, and I’m sure they get those willing but who lack the talent (yours truly haha).


Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself?
And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups.

Look at this: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation

As if I had called for it. Is it a dream? Someone else stating their point of view on TL.net. I cannot believe my eyes yet. I didn't know this was already allowed at all, and not cancelled, like the past 10-15 years.

And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh.

I just thought, if there is anybody with an IQ at teamliquid worth mentioning, they would probably enjoy an honest opinion more than a conformist, terran elitist "good writeup" statement again, which is called bubble btw. nowadays.



I'm not sure what's going on or who hurt you, but aren't you also just sharing your own perspective here? From what I can tell, now, neither you nor that guy obsessed with his statistical evaluation have been 'cancelled.' Am I missing something? Relax dude, you seem a little intense right now.
Terran
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
June 01 2025 08:41 GMT
#34
I was cancelled many times before here. Believe me.
PremoBeats
Profile Joined March 2024
314 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-01 09:04:21
June 01 2025 08:58 GMT
#35
On June 01 2025 16:36 LSN wrote:
Well maybe that was a bit of an unfair assessment. Who cares? I have been treated unfairly by this website dozens of times before myself.

But I will give you that. I should have written "great writeup" instead I guess. My goodness, calm down again.

The key points still stay true: They are selling opinion as facts and the origin, the source, is always the same 1, 2 or 3 guys. And this means something, when you visit this website literally once per year. I just remember the Taeja shittery from some years back.

The question still holds: Why would I wanna read this terran idealization over and over and over and over again on TL.net? I cannot see progress from a decade back from that.

Btw. I have done my homework meanwhiles, and did some research on both guys running TL. They are in fact different people. I watched the interviews this morning. Because I wanted to get thorow.

They seem reasonable, well reflected people. And still I wonder why when I visit this website after one year, the first thing that pops to my eye is again a story of Terran idealization. Like the time stands still at TL.net. Seriously.


And I repeat: For someone like me it is detectable after 20 seconds of scanning through the article, that this is about terran idealization and a few protosses were just added in order to make it at least look a bit multidimensional.

Wombat, I remember your name from 10 years ago as well. Great meetup. I am happy.

Show nested quote +
On June 01 2025 11:13 WombaT wrote:
It’s time-consuming, unpaid work that also requires one to be a decent writer. I imagine plenty have the talent, but don’t want to commit to that, and I’m sure they get those willing but who lack the talent (yours truly haha).


Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself?
And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups.

Look at this: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation

As if I had called for it. Is it a dream? Someone else stating their point of view on TL.net. I cannot believe my eyes yet. I didn't know this was already allowed at all, and not cancelled, like the past 10-15 years.

And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh.

I just thought, if there is anybody with an IQ at teamliquid worth mentioning, they would probably enjoy an honest opinion more than a conformist, terran elitist "good writeup" statement again, which is called bubble btw. nowadays.



Yo! Read my article, god dammit... you don't seem to hold back with criticism so give me your most honest and constructive shot!

BTW: My analysis from roughly 1 year ago was also not cancelled
Antithesis
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1144 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-01 14:53:53
June 01 2025 12:27 GMT
#36
On June 01 2025 07:20 LSN wrote:
This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else.

This is actually very fair and valid criticism. Your post made me realize why I too cared so little about this article: however well it is written, it is essentially a tribute to three terran players, plus a nod to Neeb, not a recount of the great memories of GSL in general.

Which in itself is fine, of course, as in the article Mizenhauer writes it is his "most vivid GSL memories", and if three out of his four most salient memories all have to do with terran players, then so be it. But the headline is rather misleading in this case. A better title would be: "My fondest GSL memories: Three terrans and one foreign protoss challenger", or something to that effect.

The other way round, it is disappointing that not a single zerg player is given real attention in this article, except in brief remarks relating them, of course, to the other players. Honestly, it is odd that anyone one should reflect on the history of GSL without going into any of the stories of FruitDealer, Nestea, Soulkey, Rogue, even Dark, or Serral's wins at GSL vs. the World, and so on.

It is said in the preface that more articles of this sort may follow, and perhaps and hopefully they will make more room for non-terran players. But even then I think it could me made clearer that this issue is really mainly about terrans.

Edit: Just to be clear, it's a cool and well-written article all the same, and I'm happy we are still getting those.
Mutation complete.
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1123 Posts
June 01 2025 13:36 GMT
#37
Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself?
And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups.


"I pretend I'm only here every five years but I know exactly what your opinion is!!1"
No, WombaT is not a "Terran elitist". And before you call me that: I'm on record multiple times for stating that I hate Terran. I really do. It is the most unfun, ill-designed race out there. After ZvP my favorite matchup is literally TvT, because one Terran will lose.
And I still have no quarrel accepting that Maru is the 2nd best player of all time or that Clem was an absolute monster in the second half of 2025.

And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh.


Yes, you clearly have a lot of important and valuable things to do, as proven by your posts here?


I was cancelled many times before here. Believe me.


As someone who was an admin for WC3 for around 8 years: Yeah, I've heard that before. Which in 9 out of 10 cases means one of the following things:
1)Someone disagreed with you, which you label as "canceled"
2)You, like you do in your posts here, heavily missed the beat regarding your tone

But I would like to offer an apology to Mizenhauer, derailing his article like this or atleast contributing to it. Which btw shows the leniency of the TL-Admins. I would have shot down that shit already.

Lastly:
Guys, this is more of an opinion than a news-article. And everyone saying "I'm missing some non-Terran memories"...I feel like this article was more of an invitation to share your own memories. What do you think about when you think about GSL? Instead you bitch about how the memories one guy has and cherishes are not diversified about?
And just to add why I don't do that: As I said, I don't care much about GSL, never have. Therefore I don't really have any particular memory jumping up when I think about it.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-01 15:40:43
June 01 2025 15:01 GMT
#38
On June 01 2025 21:27 Antithesis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2025 07:20 LSN wrote:
This article is about MvP, Innovation and Maru. Nothing else.

This is actually very fair and valid criticism. Your post made me realize why I too cared so little about this article: however well it is written, it is essentially a tribute to three terran players, plus a nod to Neeb, not a recount of the great memories of GSL in general.

Which in itself is fine, of course, as in the article Mizenhauer writes it is his "most vivid GSL memories", and if three out of his four most salient memories all have to do with terran players, then so be it. But the headline is rather misleading in this case. A better title would be: "My fondest GSL memories: Three terrans and one foreign protoss challenger", or something to that effect.

The other way round, it is disappointing that not a single zerg player is given real attention in this article, except in brief remarks relating them, of course, to the other players. Honestly, it is odd that anyone one should reflect on the history of GSL without going into any of the stories of FruitDealer, Nestea, Soulkey, Rogue, even Dark, or Serral's wins at GSL vs. the World, and so on.

It is said in the preface that more articles of this sort may follow, and perhaps and hopefully they will make more room for non-terran players. But even then I think it could me made clearer that this issue is really mainly about terrans.

Edit: Just to be clear, it's a cool and well-written article all the same, and I'm happy we are still getting those.


The thing is, this has a large history at TL. And after all the years you would imagine they had dropped this bias history. But it is not the case. It is even more so than ever. Terran memories get socialized.

And when I say, I have different memories, obviously, as everybody else, other than the terran bubble at TL.net, the lowest IQ guys come here, and say stuff like if I wanted to socialize my memories too. But I did not. You just made this up.

But when I think of shared memories, I remember that probably most players gonna share the memories of terran bias at Team Liquid.

But I know, that was already asking too much IQ wise. These guys didn't even get the point.

User was temp banned for this post.
Deleted User 132135
Profile Joined December 2010
702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-01 15:21:30
June 01 2025 15:07 GMT
#39
On June 01 2025 22:36 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself?
And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups.


"I pretend I'm only here every five years but I know exactly what your opinion is!!1"
No, WombaT is not a "Terran elitist". And before you call me that: I'm on record multiple times for stating that I hate Terran. I really do. It is the most unfun, ill-designed race out there. After ZvP my favorite matchup is literally TvT, because one Terran will lose.
And I still have no quarrel accepting that Maru is the 2nd best player of all time or that Clem was an absolute monster in the second half of 2025.

Show nested quote +
And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh.


Yes, you clearly have a lot of important and valuable things to do, as proven by your posts here?

Show nested quote +

I was cancelled many times before here. Believe me.


As someone who was an admin for WC3 for around 8 years: Yeah, I've heard that before. Which in 9 out of 10 cases means one of the following things:
1)Someone disagreed with you, which you label as "canceled"
2)You, like you do in your posts here, heavily missed the beat regarding your tone

But I would like to offer an apology to Mizenhauer, derailing his article like this or atleast contributing to it. Which btw shows the leniency of the TL-Admins. I would have shot down that shit already.

Lastly:
Guys, this is more of an opinion than a news-article. And everyone saying "I'm missing some non-Terran memories"...I feel like this article was more of an invitation to share your own memories. What do you think about when you think about GSL? Instead you bitch about how the memories one guy has and cherishes are not diversified about?
And just to add why I don't do that: As I said, I don't care much about GSL, never have. Therefore I don't really have any particular memory jumping up when I think about it.



Wow, what a fail0r you are. You even try to sneak into the arses of admins here, as everybody can see. Wow.

You obviously derail the the thread while I exactly talk on the topic and on point.

In order to help you a little: The topic is not my cancelation, even if some of you derailers wanna put it like that. The topic the writeup itself, who would have imagined that? I just checked again, this article is a featured news article, while https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation is not.

Do you see it yourself or need further explanations?
I will help you again if required.
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1123 Posts
June 01 2025 15:31 GMT
#40
On June 02 2025 00:07 LSN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2025 22:36 Balnazza wrote:
Man. You are another terran player who just loves the terran idealization. Is it so hard for you to recognize this yourself?
And anyway, if I wrote for this website, the viewer numbers would go up just for the sake of me being part of it. And you know that. And: You don't even recognize, that you terran fetishists are probably the only people left enjoying to read these Terran writeups.


"I pretend I'm only here every five years but I know exactly what your opinion is!!1"
No, WombaT is not a "Terran elitist". And before you call me that: I'm on record multiple times for stating that I hate Terran. I really do. It is the most unfun, ill-designed race out there. After ZvP my favorite matchup is literally TvT, because one Terran will lose.
And I still have no quarrel accepting that Maru is the 2nd best player of all time or that Clem was an absolute monster in the second half of 2025.

And I am still not gonna read it, cause it is irrelevant to my life. I call this mental hygiene. My harddrives are reserved for more important stuff tbh.


Yes, you clearly have a lot of important and valuable things to do, as proven by your posts here?


I was cancelled many times before here. Believe me.


As someone who was an admin for WC3 for around 8 years: Yeah, I've heard that before. Which in 9 out of 10 cases means one of the following things:
1)Someone disagreed with you, which you label as "canceled"
2)You, like you do in your posts here, heavily missed the beat regarding your tone

But I would like to offer an apology to Mizenhauer, derailing his article like this or atleast contributing to it. Which btw shows the leniency of the TL-Admins. I would have shot down that shit already.

Lastly:
Guys, this is more of an opinion than a news-article. And everyone saying "I'm missing some non-Terran memories"...I feel like this article was more of an invitation to share your own memories. What do you think about when you think about GSL? Instead you bitch about how the memories one guy has and cherishes are not diversified about?
And just to add why I don't do that: As I said, I don't care much about GSL, never have. Therefore I don't really have any particular memory jumping up when I think about it.



Wow, what a fail0r you are. You even try to sneak into the arses of admins here, as everybody can see. Wow.

You obviously derail the the thread while I exactly talk on the topic and on point.

In order to help you a little: The topic is not my cancelation, even if some of you derailers wanna put it like that. The topic the writeup itself, who would have imagined that? I just checked again, this article is a featured news article, while https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/639929-the-scii-goat-a-statistical-evaluation is not.

Do you see it yourself or need further explanations?
I will help you again if required.


So you are either 100% trolling or truely lack any understanding how this site is structured, huh? That's just bad, but don't worry, you will figure it out eventually \ o /
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16665 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-02 14:28:57
June 02 2025 14:07 GMT
#41
Thanks for the memories and insights!
On June 01 2025 16:36 Deleted User 132135 wrote:
Well maybe that was a bit of an unfair assessment. Who cares? I have been treated unfairly by this website dozens of times before myself.

Every person treats you unfairly either pro or con in different respects with your every social interaction. Welcome to the adult world. I am sometimes treated both favourably and unfavourably for no good reason. This is not some unique experience.

One of my customers had a database problem they could not solve. I solved it with the in house IT database specialist guy and he provided the explanation of the solution to management. No one understood what was going on and the CIO panicked. I had to throw on a $3000 suit, travel 800 km, go in, in-person, and repeat almost word-for-word what the in-house guy said. Suddenly, everyone understood. This is not the first time this has happened. Clearly, there is bias in these cases. Tall men in $3000 suits travelling from far away are treated very differently compared a short guy who works on the same floor speaking with an accent in a t-shirt and jeans. The world is an unfair place.

The Sc2 game is imbalanced. The game itself is "unfair". Players willing to tolerate the imbalance can enjoy the fun of 3 diverse races in combat.

So, for the sake of this discussion let's assume the game is imbalanced against my race by 7.5%. This means that occasionally someone worse than me will beat me. I am happy to pay that price for the enjoyment of the game. Many other great games feature many outcomes where a less skilled player beats a more skilled player. Its part of the fun.

The world is unfair, people (including SC2 players) are unfair, and the many great highly competitive games are unfair. This is a reality with which most young teenagers grapple and then learn to manage around by the time they are 18.

Hopefully, your struggles on this site help you in better dealing with the adult world. GL HF! See You On The Battlefield!
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
dedede
Profile Joined March 2024
United States48 Posts
June 03 2025 00:45 GMT
#42
From my perspective some other notable moments: Zest/Dear royal road, fruitdealer, one-man-army Byun win vs sOs (rip two times blizzcon champ), gumigod's win in 2017 S2, stats' win in 2017 S1, Maru vs TY 2018 S3 finals, ....
I would love to include some Dark and Rogue wins but I just feel bad for Trap being the protoss finalist with the worst balance in 2019. I would also want to bring up L*fe, but we're all aware of the unfortunate facts. Feels bad that soO, sOs and parting never get a GSL title.
Terran
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24796 Posts
June 03 2025 01:53 GMT
#43
Inca versus Nestea has to be up there, not all memories are good!

There are other GSL finals were one player didn’t show up and got smacked on the day. I can’t really think of one where there was just such a gulf in class as that one.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
fr33xta
Profile Joined July 2024
7 Posts
June 03 2025 20:03 GMT
#44
@Banned User guy

Who's the real GOAT? Serral or Rogue?
dedede
Profile Joined March 2024
United States48 Posts
June 03 2025 20:12 GMT
#45
On June 04 2025 05:03 fr33xta wrote:
@Banned User guy

Who's the real GOAT? Serral or Rogue?


Maru :D
Terran
MJG
Profile Joined May 2018
United Kingdom895 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-04 11:42:03
June 04 2025 10:43 GMT
#46
On June 03 2025 10:53 WombaT wrote:
Inca versus Nestea has to be up there, not all memories are good!

There are other GSL finals were one player didn’t show up and got smacked on the day. I can’t really think of one where there was just such a gulf in class as that one.

That series was terrible, but Inca's Dark Templar rush massively increased my PvZ win-rate and I continued using it (or meta-adapted variations of it) for the rest of WoL and HotS. Good times!

Now it's basically impossible to get damage done with Dark Templar because Zerg doesn't need an Evolution Chamber to make Spore Crawlers...

British Protoss || "You have to play for yourself, you have to play to get better; you can't play to make other people happy, that's not gonna ever sustain you." - NonY
dedede
Profile Joined March 2024
United States48 Posts
June 04 2025 10:51 GMT
#47
Ok I was just about to fall asleep and then the match between soO and Fantasy w/ that hero banshee popped into my mind. Also sos vs bunny with nexus in terrans main.
Terran
johnnyh123
Profile Joined February 2023
100 Posts
4 hours ago
#48
On June 04 2025 05:03 fr33xta wrote:
@Banned User guy

Who's the real GOAT? Serral or Rogue?


Miz, at least for the duration of this post haha. For bringing us another good read.
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
$400 Mondays 39
WardiTV962
OGKoka 504
IndyStarCraft 200
CranKy Ducklings151
IntoTheiNu 60
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 508
OGKoka 504
Rex 202
IndyStarCraft 200
Hui .128
ProTech89
mcanning 83
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 13362
Hyuk 8315
Sea 4704
Horang2 964
EffOrt 903
Larva 539
firebathero 423
Snow 374
Mini 335
Stork 316
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 81
Pusan 80
sSak 63
Hyun 62
Sharp 61
[sc1f]eonzerg 58
Sea.KH 49
sorry 47
Aegong 33
Backho 32
Movie 32
Icarus 30
GoRush 28
Barracks 23
Yoon 20
Shine 14
yabsab 10
Terrorterran 8
Hm[arnc] 7
Bale 3
Dota 2
Gorgc6206
qojqva1888
XcaliburYe317
syndereN214
League of Legends
Dendi1624
Counter-Strike
allub247
byalli242
markeloff200
FunKaTv 32
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King109
Other Games
singsing2105
B2W.Neo1755
Fuzer 721
crisheroes431
Lowko301
XaKoH 164
ArmadaUGS67
QueenE34
KnowMe17
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 38
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2425
• WagamamaTV404
League of Legends
• Nemesis2759
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 34m
Replay Cast
20h 34m
WardiTV Invitational
21h 34m
WardiTV Invitational
21h 34m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 10h
GSL Code S
1d 20h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
5 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.