EPTHow interested are you in playing or watching the SC: Evo…
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4455 Posts
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Nasigil1
114 Posts
I don't think it should make it in to a serious competitive mode. Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible. Once it starts to get into nitty gritty of timings and build orders down to seconds, there's no way you could properly balance all 9 matchups. For serious competitive tournaments with money on the line it will get ugly fast. Just keep it light hearted and fun. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16126 Posts
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote: I think this mod should stay in the "fun phase'. But that I mean it functions as a carefree custom mode within friends, for content creators to have interesting games to cast, and for big tournaments to have a few show matches. I don't think it should make it in to a serious competitive mode. Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible. Once it starts to get into nitty gritty of timings and build orders down to seconds, there's no way you could properly balance all 9 matchups. For serious competitive tournaments with money on the line it will get ugly fast. Just keep it light hearted and fun. I don't think they could make it a serious competitive mode even if they wanted to. There's such glaring balance issues and clashing design philosophies to address here in order for that to happen, that if they tried, the game would look radically different and probably lose all of its charm as a result of trying to actually balance it. That doesn't mean you can't have tournaments for it, the same way you can have tournaments for a game like Mario Kart. But no one should be taking it seriously as an actual competitive event. | ||
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ZeroByte13
799 Posts
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote: It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZBalancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible. With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On May 20 2024 03:27 ZeroByte13 wrote: It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZ With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15. The mod is SC1 vs SC2 so it only has crossgame match ups, thats why it has 9. | ||
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Kitai
United States886 Posts
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Galacsia
Chile163 Posts
On May 20 2024 09:30 Lexender wrote: The mod is SC1 vs SC2 so it only has crossgame match ups, thats why it has 9. No, it doesn't. You can play bw vs bw, sc2 vs sc2, bw vs sc2, random vs random | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3137 Posts
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Snakestyle1
43 Posts
Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results. Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds. I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27446 Posts
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote: This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros". Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results. Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds. I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game. I’d imagine a hefty amount of the player base don’t want to have to completely relearn the game every couple of months, especially given how SC2’s user base skews a bit older than many. It’s always a fun phase when a game is new, or an expansion and people are discovering things and figuring out the game, but I don’t know if you want that to keep going in perpetuity | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20344 Posts
On May 22 2024 01:29 WombaT wrote: I’d imagine a hefty amount of the player base don’t want to have to completely relearn the game every couple of months, especially given how SC2’s user base skews a bit older than many. It’s always a fun phase when a game is new, or an expansion and people are discovering things and figuring out the game, but I don’t know if you want that to keep going in perpetuity There's value in the long term, figured out competition with only minor tweaks.. but i'm sure tons would love a secondary or seasonal ladder with major shakeups. I think it's also one of the best ways to look at which ideas and concepts may be worth gently introducing into the "main competitive game". | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2358 Posts
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote: This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros". Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results. Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds. I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game. yeah dude, Progamers and high level amateurs really do love the unknown and not knowing how the game will play out... i mean srsly, think about it, having fun and not knowing shit is the exact reason why they play only 1 race their whole life and pretty much the same 3 builds for years... | ||
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ruhtraeel
Canada137 Posts
Might make up for Queen inject, Mules and Boost throughout the game | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27446 Posts
On May 24 2024 20:07 XenOsky wrote: yeah dude, Progamers and high level amateurs really do love the unknown and not knowing how the game will play out... i mean srsly, think about it, having fun and not knowing shit is the exact reason why they play only 1 race their whole life and pretty much the same 3 builds for years... The novel phase is super fun, when it’s the initial phase. I love that phase of discovery myself. When it’s a constant thing I don’t think it refreshes much enthusiasm in regular players. Especially as RTS skews a bit older these days. SC2 still vaguely resembles the SC2 it did a year, or two years ago or whatever. I can follow the pro scene, pop back in here and there, make a few minor tweaks and still largely pop back in after long periods of inactivity because the kind of core gameplay is pretty recognisable. This isn’t something I can do if the game radically changes all the time, and I really don’t have the time to relearn the game every time I want to return. I imagine I’m far, far from alone in this BW hasn’t been patched in literal decades to take one obvious example and it’s doing rather OK | ||
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Vision_
877 Posts
I m actually not fan of the shuttle/scarabs because drop archons was still used in SC2. I would like replace disruptors by a catapult like in stormgate | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27446 Posts
On May 25 2024 17:49 Vision_ wrote: To me it s now obvious that the goons help protoss to hold the position and be able to control the ground. (but i would keep stalkers as i like their design (harassement units), their supply cost has to be increased from 2 to 3 with some tweaks (banshee supply cost = stalkers supply cost) I m actually not fan of the shuttle/scarabs because drop archons was still used in SC2. I would like replace disruptors by a catapult like in stormgate It could be cool but it’s resolutely not the point of this mod. BW versus SC2, that’s really it. | ||
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Vision_
877 Posts
I would replace hellions by firebat and stalkers by adept design. Then MAYBE, a fourth race design could be look ahead to robot/star wars/fallout ref (only robot no human, controlled by IA ?) . I think it s a real challenge | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary492 Posts
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