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How interested are you in playing or watching the SC: Evo…

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
May 18 2024 23:44 GMT
#21
Haven't played SC2 for about 10 years but i watched a youtube vid of SC1 terran vs SC2 terran and the SC2 BCs just roflstomped everything.Goliaths couldn't touch em.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Nasigil1
Profile Joined March 2024
96 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-19 11:09:23
May 19 2024 11:08 GMT
#22
I think this mod should stay in the "fun phase'. But that I mean it functions as a carefree custom mode within friends, for content creators to have interesting games to cast, and for big tournaments to have a few show matches.

I don't think it should make it in to a serious competitive mode.

Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible. Once it starts to get into nitty gritty of timings and build orders down to seconds, there's no way you could properly balance all 9 matchups. For serious competitive tournaments with money on the line it will get ugly fast.

Just keep it light hearted and fun.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-19 18:10:28
May 19 2024 18:10 GMT
#23
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
I think this mod should stay in the "fun phase'. But that I mean it functions as a carefree custom mode within friends, for content creators to have interesting games to cast, and for big tournaments to have a few show matches.

I don't think it should make it in to a serious competitive mode.

Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible. Once it starts to get into nitty gritty of timings and build orders down to seconds, there's no way you could properly balance all 9 matchups. For serious competitive tournaments with money on the line it will get ugly fast.

Just keep it light hearted and fun.


I don't think they could make it a serious competitive mode even if they wanted to. There's such glaring balance issues and clashing design philosophies to address here in order for that to happen, that if they tried, the game would look radically different and probably lose all of its charm as a result of trying to actually balance it.

That doesn't mean you can't have tournaments for it, the same way you can have tournaments for a game like Mario Kart. But no one should be taking it seriously as an actual competitive event.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
ZeroByte13
Profile Joined March 2022
765 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-19 18:29:32
May 19 2024 18:27 GMT
#24
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible.
It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZ
With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15.
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
May 19 2024 22:22 GMT
#25
I'm interested only if they bring BW pros.
sunbeams are never made like me...
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2627 Posts
May 20 2024 00:30 GMT
#26
On May 20 2024 03:27 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible.
It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZ
With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15.


The mod is SC1 vs SC2 so it only has crossgame match ups, thats why it has 9.
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States873 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-20 05:24:44
May 20 2024 05:23 GMT
#27
Voted "somewhat uninterested" since I feel like it'll last maybe a month until the most broken strategies from each matchup manifest and the games are all forgone conclusions after that. I find it highly unlikely that we'll see anyone playing it a year from now.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
Galacsia
Profile Joined February 2020
Chile161 Posts
May 20 2024 08:53 GMT
#28
On May 20 2024 09:30 Lexender wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2024 03:27 ZeroByte13 wrote:
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible.
It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZ
With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15.


The mod is SC1 vs SC2 so it only has crossgame match ups, thats why it has 9.

No, it doesn't. You can play bw vs bw, sc2 vs sc2, bw vs sc2, random vs random
BeSt / Bisu ftw!!
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3099 Posts
May 20 2024 12:31 GMT
#29
I voted "very interested" but that to me is emphatically not a vote for creating a competitive circuit around this mod, but rather a vote for having more "fun" events in general in the SC2 scene (mods, 4v4s, showmatches, etc) as well as events that bring together the BW and SC2 scenes. I think there's a lot of potential there to up viewership and make the SC scenes help each other, especially in Korea. I don't really have any interest in this mod replacing either game tho or being an independent ESPORTS scene.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Snakestyle1
Profile Joined May 2017
43 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-20 13:06:53
May 20 2024 13:06 GMT
#30
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
May 21 2024 16:29 GMT
#31
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.

I’d imagine a hefty amount of the player base don’t want to have to completely relearn the game every couple of months, especially given how SC2’s user base skews a bit older than many.

It’s always a fun phase when a game is new, or an expansion and people are discovering things and figuring out the game, but I don’t know if you want that to keep going in perpetuity
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
May 21 2024 18:31 GMT
#32
On May 22 2024 01:29 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.

I’d imagine a hefty amount of the player base don’t want to have to completely relearn the game every couple of months, especially given how SC2’s user base skews a bit older than many.

It’s always a fun phase when a game is new, or an expansion and people are discovering things and figuring out the game, but I don’t know if you want that to keep going in perpetuity


There's value in the long term, figured out competition with only minor tweaks.. but i'm sure tons would love a secondary or seasonal ladder with major shakeups. I think it's also one of the best ways to look at which ideas and concepts may be worth gently introducing into the "main competitive game".
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2268 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-24 11:11:12
May 24 2024 11:07 GMT
#33
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.



yeah dude, Progamers and high level amateurs really do love the unknown and not knowing how the game will play out...

i mean srsly, think about it, having fun and not knowing shit is the exact reason why they play only 1 race their whole life and pretty much the same 3 builds for years...
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
ruhtraeel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada119 Posts
May 24 2024 20:07 GMT
#34
What if SC1 workers also mined 8 minerals like in SC1 instead of 5

Might make up for Queen inject, Mules and Boost throughout the game
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
May 24 2024 20:41 GMT
#35
On May 24 2024 20:07 XenOsky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.



yeah dude, Progamers and high level amateurs really do love the unknown and not knowing how the game will play out...

i mean srsly, think about it, having fun and not knowing shit is the exact reason why they play only 1 race their whole life and pretty much the same 3 builds for years...

The novel phase is super fun, when it’s the initial phase. I love that phase of discovery myself.

When it’s a constant thing I don’t think it refreshes much enthusiasm in regular players. Especially as RTS skews a bit older these days. SC2 still vaguely resembles the SC2 it did a year, or two years ago or whatever. I can follow the pro scene, pop back in here and there, make a few minor tweaks and still largely pop back in after long periods of inactivity because the kind of core gameplay is pretty recognisable.

This isn’t something I can do if the game radically changes all the time, and I really don’t have the time to relearn the game every time I want to return. I imagine I’m far, far from alone in this

BW hasn’t been patched in literal decades to take one obvious example and it’s doing rather OK
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-25 08:51:07
May 25 2024 08:49 GMT
#36
To me it s now obvious that the goons help protoss to hold the position and be able to control the ground. (but i would keep stalkers as i like their design (harassement units), their supply cost has to be increased from 2 to 3 with some tweaks (banshee supply cost = stalkers supply cost)

I m actually not fan of the shuttle/scarabs because drop archons was still used in SC2. I would like replace disruptors by a catapult like in stormgate
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
May 25 2024 08:58 GMT
#37
I'm having so much fun watching these games. It is both really familiar, and so fresh and new.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
May 25 2024 13:01 GMT
#38
On May 25 2024 17:49 Vision_ wrote:
To me it s now obvious that the goons help protoss to hold the position and be able to control the ground. (but i would keep stalkers as i like their design (harassement units), their supply cost has to be increased from 2 to 3 with some tweaks (banshee supply cost = stalkers supply cost)

I m actually not fan of the shuttle/scarabs because drop archons was still used in SC2. I would like replace disruptors by a catapult like in stormgate

It could be cool but it’s resolutely not the point of this mod.

BW versus SC2, that’s really it.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-26 08:43:16
May 26 2024 08:33 GMT
#39
In the same vein of this thread, we could also think at what could a fourth race look like ? Which Lore ?

I would replace hellions by firebat and stalkers by adept design. Then MAYBE, a fourth race design could be look ahead to robot/star wars/fallout ref (only robot no human, controlled by IA ?) . I think it s a real challenge



kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary474 Posts
May 26 2024 09:44 GMT
#40
Watching i am absolutely interested. In fact i would love to see a tournament with BW races only in SC2 engine. BW vs SC2 while absolutely fun to watch not really balanced. But nevertheless i'd still watch it.
Why so serious?
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