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Active: 473 users

How interested are you in playing or watching the SC: Evo…

Forum Index > SC2 General
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TL.net Bot
Profile Joined June 2004
TL.net130 Posts
May 17 2024 18:25 GMT
#1
Discussion thread for front page poll: "How interested are you in playing or watching the SC: Evo Complete (BW vs SC2) mod?"
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
May 17 2024 23:25 GMT
#2
Never heard of it.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
May 18 2024 00:01 GMT
#3
I feel like we're in a honeymoon period with SC: Evo where because the game is so not figured out, that it leads to a lot of chaotic and entertaining games because pro players don't have complete information about what decisions to make. It's hard to know if the game will remain as entertaining as it currently is whenever a metagame forms and some stability starts to happen.

It already looks to me like certain match ups like ZvZ don't seem playable at all in a competitive way, so there's only so much we can realistically expect from the mod in terms of being an actual competitive game. It's fun to watch for now though.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2267 Posts
May 18 2024 01:52 GMT
#4
3/10 tbh is something i would watch on the train or the bus...
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1608 Posts
May 18 2024 01:54 GMT
#5
On May 18 2024 09:01 Vindicare605 wrote:
I feel like we're in a honeymoon period with SC: Evo where because the game is so not figured out, that it leads to a lot of chaotic and entertaining games because pro players don't have complete information about what decisions to make. It's hard to know if the game will remain as entertaining as it currently is whenever a metagame forms and some stability starts to happen.

It already looks to me like certain match ups like ZvZ don't seem playable at all in a competitive way, so there's only so much we can realistically expect from the mod in terms of being an actual competitive game. It's fun to watch for now though.

I don't think it really has much of a future outside the pro level without a ladder or some sort of ranking system. People will see it as a fad. I'll still tune into any showmatches/tournaments afreeca hosts though.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
May 18 2024 02:30 GMT
#6
On May 18 2024 09:01 Vindicare605 wrote:
I feel like we're in a honeymoon period with SC: Evo where because the game is so not figured out, that it leads to a lot of chaotic and entertaining games because pro players don't have complete information about what decisions to make. It's hard to know if the game will remain as entertaining as it currently is whenever a metagame forms and some stability starts to happen.

It already looks to me like certain match ups like ZvZ don't seem playable at all in a competitive way, so there's only so much we can realistically expect from the mod in terms of being an actual competitive game. It's fun to watch for now though.

Yeah I’m in this boat, it’s a blast as a bit of a novelty for sure but the more it’s fleshed out the higher the likelihood some things will be pretty broken.

Reavers with shuttles and the SC2 engine are rather terrifying, likewise irradiate with SC2’s tighter clumping.

Have the folks who made this left armour/attack types as they were in the respective games or did they make any wee tweaks there? There’s a lot I don’t know and some fights were kinda hard to gauge, but as I said I did enioy those show matches
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3347 Posts
May 18 2024 02:47 GMT
#7
I think Afreeca will keep hosting tournament like this in the future, pitching ASL vs GSL in a sense. I dont expect it to be a full-blow circuit due to reason you guys have stated. Obviously thats still plenty of entertainment and fun for us viewer and players got some extra money, so I am all for it.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
May 18 2024 08:15 GMT
#8
complex but can be balanced in studying critical mass between units
KingzTig
Profile Joined February 2024
155 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-18 08:58:14
May 18 2024 08:56 GMT
#9
I am honestly surprised at the quality of the games that are coming out. For a mod this new, it is pretty decent.
and yet again proving the "time to kill" isn't an issue if it provides entertaining games.

Some stuff obviously will need to be rebalanced, but at the same time with total 6 "races", not needing for pinpoint dry balance is a welcome change
ruhtraeel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada119 Posts
May 18 2024 10:42 GMT
#10
It's super entertaining to watch, but definitely has balance issues that will lessen its staying power if not handled properly.

Ex. SC1 Battlecruiser being worse in every way than the SC2 Battlecruiser
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15919 Posts
May 18 2024 10:54 GMT
#11
On May 18 2024 11:30 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2024 09:01 Vindicare605 wrote:
I feel like we're in a honeymoon period with SC: Evo where because the game is so not figured out, that it leads to a lot of chaotic and entertaining games because pro players don't have complete information about what decisions to make. It's hard to know if the game will remain as entertaining as it currently is whenever a metagame forms and some stability starts to happen.

It already looks to me like certain match ups like ZvZ don't seem playable at all in a competitive way, so there's only so much we can realistically expect from the mod in terms of being an actual competitive game. It's fun to watch for now though.

Yeah I’m in this boat, it’s a blast as a bit of a novelty for sure but the more it’s fleshed out the higher the likelihood some things will be pretty broken.

Reavers with shuttles and the SC2 engine are rather terrifying, likewise irradiate with SC2’s tighter clumping.

Have the folks who made this left armour/attack types as they were in the respective games or did they make any wee tweaks there? There’s a lot I don’t know and some fights were kinda hard to gauge, but as I said I did enioy those show matches

While that's true I feel like every race has stuff that's insanely hard to deal with and it somewhat balances out, for example while Reavers destroy sc2 bio in a straight up fight, drop play is WAY more effective against bw Protoss with no warpin/recall
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
May 18 2024 11:09 GMT
#12
It’s almost impressive that BW versus SC2 ZvZ may actually have finally surpassed BW ZvZ as the worst matchup in any ‘Blizz’ RTS

Even with BW lings being slightly stronger I just don’t know how you survive the ling/bling phase. Plus melee units are way more slippery in SC2 so you can’t do body blocking nearly as effectively, whereas the Queen + sim city option is a very potent tool in doing this.

But on the flipside I don’t see how you fix that without rebalancing for that specific matchup, which kind of defeats the purpose and spirit of the mod.

May as well not sweat it too much and have a bit of craic

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-18 11:23:59
May 18 2024 11:22 GMT
#13
To me this mod is also a clue that community want something fresh, that SC2 gamers need something new.

In fact it can be redesigned with slowing unit fights and adding 4th race

With 4 races, you will get 10 matchs up, which can be amazing
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
May 18 2024 11:23 GMT
#14
On May 18 2024 19:54 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2024 11:30 WombaT wrote:
On May 18 2024 09:01 Vindicare605 wrote:
I feel like we're in a honeymoon period with SC: Evo where because the game is so not figured out, that it leads to a lot of chaotic and entertaining games because pro players don't have complete information about what decisions to make. It's hard to know if the game will remain as entertaining as it currently is whenever a metagame forms and some stability starts to happen.

It already looks to me like certain match ups like ZvZ don't seem playable at all in a competitive way, so there's only so much we can realistically expect from the mod in terms of being an actual competitive game. It's fun to watch for now though.

Yeah I’m in this boat, it’s a blast as a bit of a novelty for sure but the more it’s fleshed out the higher the likelihood some things will be pretty broken.

Reavers with shuttles and the SC2 engine are rather terrifying, likewise irradiate with SC2’s tighter clumping.

Have the folks who made this left armour/attack types as they were in the respective games or did they make any wee tweaks there? There’s a lot I don’t know and some fights were kinda hard to gauge, but as I said I did enioy those show matches

While that's true I feel like every race has stuff that's insanely hard to deal with and it somewhat balances out, for example while Reavers destroy sc2 bio in a straight up fight, drop play is WAY more effective against bw Protoss with no warpin/recall

I also imagine Manlots/Dragoons aren’t particularly good against bio just with how SC2’s engine works.

I can see this Reaver being insane in BW PvT, both PvPs and versus SC2 Zoig.

But I dunno how the timings work out, with the latter it feels it could be a Disruptor drop on absolute steroids

Also I think they’ve generally done a good job on models, some I don’t recognise from SC2 campaigns so I’m assuming some are made specially.

But dagnabbit between the campaign Reaver, mods like Starbow and this is it just me or have they never nailed that crunchy punch that the sluggy boiz dish out in BW? Archons feel like absolute pussies too compared to their forebears

I am absolutely splitting hairs here mind :p
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10325 Posts
May 18 2024 12:30 GMT
#15
I haven't been able to watch/play it much yet, but it sounds pretty fun.

Also, if Afreeca hosts more events, it can help promote both ASL and GSL. (SC2/GSL would be the biggest winner here).

I'm glad that something like this has brought new life to SC and SC2 especially.
I'd like to play it soon and try to experience the fun of discovering a new game with no established meta etc.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5417 Posts
May 18 2024 14:15 GMT
#16
I'm all for it - something new is always welcome. If the people like it, why not try it out?
BonitiilloO
Profile Joined June 2013
Dominican Republic614 Posts
May 18 2024 15:14 GMT
#17
looks good to me, only thing is to improve the balance aspect in some match ups.
How may help u?
Comedy
Profile Joined March 2016
456 Posts
May 18 2024 17:03 GMT
#18
From a BW perspective it's just hard to get into, because you can't do the same cool things with units...especially the mutalisk.
ruhtraeel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada119 Posts
May 18 2024 18:22 GMT
#19
Unless they really change up the stats for some units, I think people are going to need to play more than one race, as it'll be impossible for one race to have good matchups all across the board

Similar to SSBM, where people usually have a secondary character because with that many, there are bound to be worse matchups for each one
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-18 21:52:37
May 18 2024 21:52 GMT
#20
Yet another way that people are enjoying the game without mandating flying to Saudi Arabia
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
May 18 2024 23:44 GMT
#21
Haven't played SC2 for about 10 years but i watched a youtube vid of SC1 terran vs SC2 terran and the SC2 BCs just roflstomped everything.Goliaths couldn't touch em.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Nasigil1
Profile Joined March 2024
96 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-19 11:09:23
May 19 2024 11:08 GMT
#22
I think this mod should stay in the "fun phase'. But that I mean it functions as a carefree custom mode within friends, for content creators to have interesting games to cast, and for big tournaments to have a few show matches.

I don't think it should make it in to a serious competitive mode.

Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible. Once it starts to get into nitty gritty of timings and build orders down to seconds, there's no way you could properly balance all 9 matchups. For serious competitive tournaments with money on the line it will get ugly fast.

Just keep it light hearted and fun.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-19 18:10:28
May 19 2024 18:10 GMT
#23
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
I think this mod should stay in the "fun phase'. But that I mean it functions as a carefree custom mode within friends, for content creators to have interesting games to cast, and for big tournaments to have a few show matches.

I don't think it should make it in to a serious competitive mode.

Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible. Once it starts to get into nitty gritty of timings and build orders down to seconds, there's no way you could properly balance all 9 matchups. For serious competitive tournaments with money on the line it will get ugly fast.

Just keep it light hearted and fun.


I don't think they could make it a serious competitive mode even if they wanted to. There's such glaring balance issues and clashing design philosophies to address here in order for that to happen, that if they tried, the game would look radically different and probably lose all of its charm as a result of trying to actually balance it.

That doesn't mean you can't have tournaments for it, the same way you can have tournaments for a game like Mario Kart. But no one should be taking it seriously as an actual competitive event.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
ZeroByte13
Profile Joined March 2022
762 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-19 18:29:32
May 19 2024 18:27 GMT
#24
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible.
It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZ
With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15.
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
May 19 2024 22:22 GMT
#25
I'm interested only if they bring BW pros.
sunbeams are never made like me...
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2627 Posts
May 20 2024 00:30 GMT
#26
On May 20 2024 03:27 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible.
It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZ
With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15.


The mod is SC1 vs SC2 so it only has crossgame match ups, thats why it has 9.
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States873 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-20 05:24:44
May 20 2024 05:23 GMT
#27
Voted "somewhat uninterested" since I feel like it'll last maybe a month until the most broken strategies from each matchup manifest and the games are all forgone conclusions after that. I find it highly unlikely that we'll see anyone playing it a year from now.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
Galacsia
Profile Joined February 2020
Chile161 Posts
May 20 2024 08:53 GMT
#28
On May 20 2024 09:30 Lexender wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2024 03:27 ZeroByte13 wrote:
On May 19 2024 20:08 Nasigil1 wrote:
Balancing 6 matchups in SC2 is already a impossible task even after 14 years, balancing 9 sc1 vs sc2 matchup is only going to be even more impossible.
It's even harder - SC2 has only 3 not-mirror matchups, TvZ, TvP and PvZ
With 6 races it becomes 15, as the rule for the number of non-mirror matchups for X factions is 1 + 2 +....+ (X-1), i.e. in this case it's 1+2+3+4+5 = 15.


The mod is SC1 vs SC2 so it only has crossgame match ups, thats why it has 9.

No, it doesn't. You can play bw vs bw, sc2 vs sc2, bw vs sc2, random vs random
BeSt / Bisu ftw!!
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3099 Posts
May 20 2024 12:31 GMT
#29
I voted "very interested" but that to me is emphatically not a vote for creating a competitive circuit around this mod, but rather a vote for having more "fun" events in general in the SC2 scene (mods, 4v4s, showmatches, etc) as well as events that bring together the BW and SC2 scenes. I think there's a lot of potential there to up viewership and make the SC scenes help each other, especially in Korea. I don't really have any interest in this mod replacing either game tho or being an independent ESPORTS scene.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Snakestyle1
Profile Joined May 2017
43 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-20 13:06:53
May 20 2024 13:06 GMT
#30
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
May 21 2024 16:29 GMT
#31
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.

I’d imagine a hefty amount of the player base don’t want to have to completely relearn the game every couple of months, especially given how SC2’s user base skews a bit older than many.

It’s always a fun phase when a game is new, or an expansion and people are discovering things and figuring out the game, but I don’t know if you want that to keep going in perpetuity
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
May 21 2024 18:31 GMT
#32
On May 22 2024 01:29 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.

I’d imagine a hefty amount of the player base don’t want to have to completely relearn the game every couple of months, especially given how SC2’s user base skews a bit older than many.

It’s always a fun phase when a game is new, or an expansion and people are discovering things and figuring out the game, but I don’t know if you want that to keep going in perpetuity


There's value in the long term, figured out competition with only minor tweaks.. but i'm sure tons would love a secondary or seasonal ladder with major shakeups. I think it's also one of the best ways to look at which ideas and concepts may be worth gently introducing into the "main competitive game".
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2267 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-24 11:11:12
May 24 2024 11:07 GMT
#33
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.



yeah dude, Progamers and high level amateurs really do love the unknown and not knowing how the game will play out...

i mean srsly, think about it, having fun and not knowing shit is the exact reason why they play only 1 race their whole life and pretty much the same 3 builds for years...
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
ruhtraeel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada119 Posts
May 24 2024 20:07 GMT
#34
What if SC1 workers also mined 8 minerals like in SC1 instead of 5

Might make up for Queen inject, Mules and Boost throughout the game
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
May 24 2024 20:41 GMT
#35
On May 24 2024 20:07 XenOsky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2024 22:06 Snakestyle1 wrote:
This shows us that the baby patches we had in sc2 for years are not it. We need to stop being so worried about "breaking the balance for the pros".

Mate, we balanced the game and did everything with sole focus on the top pros for like 10 years and look at the results.

Viewers AND players like HUGE changes, they like the unknown. They like not knowing at all how the game will play out or what will be the best comps/builds.

I know if they did MEGA balance changes just for the sake of completely resetting the game/meta, It would actually bring ton of life back in the game.



yeah dude, Progamers and high level amateurs really do love the unknown and not knowing how the game will play out...

i mean srsly, think about it, having fun and not knowing shit is the exact reason why they play only 1 race their whole life and pretty much the same 3 builds for years...

The novel phase is super fun, when it’s the initial phase. I love that phase of discovery myself.

When it’s a constant thing I don’t think it refreshes much enthusiasm in regular players. Especially as RTS skews a bit older these days. SC2 still vaguely resembles the SC2 it did a year, or two years ago or whatever. I can follow the pro scene, pop back in here and there, make a few minor tweaks and still largely pop back in after long periods of inactivity because the kind of core gameplay is pretty recognisable.

This isn’t something I can do if the game radically changes all the time, and I really don’t have the time to relearn the game every time I want to return. I imagine I’m far, far from alone in this

BW hasn’t been patched in literal decades to take one obvious example and it’s doing rather OK
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-25 08:51:07
May 25 2024 08:49 GMT
#36
To me it s now obvious that the goons help protoss to hold the position and be able to control the ground. (but i would keep stalkers as i like their design (harassement units), their supply cost has to be increased from 2 to 3 with some tweaks (banshee supply cost = stalkers supply cost)

I m actually not fan of the shuttle/scarabs because drop archons was still used in SC2. I would like replace disruptors by a catapult like in stormgate
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
May 25 2024 08:58 GMT
#37
I'm having so much fun watching these games. It is both really familiar, and so fresh and new.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
May 25 2024 13:01 GMT
#38
On May 25 2024 17:49 Vision_ wrote:
To me it s now obvious that the goons help protoss to hold the position and be able to control the ground. (but i would keep stalkers as i like their design (harassement units), their supply cost has to be increased from 2 to 3 with some tweaks (banshee supply cost = stalkers supply cost)

I m actually not fan of the shuttle/scarabs because drop archons was still used in SC2. I would like replace disruptors by a catapult like in stormgate

It could be cool but it’s resolutely not the point of this mod.

BW versus SC2, that’s really it.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-26 08:43:16
May 26 2024 08:33 GMT
#39
In the same vein of this thread, we could also think at what could a fourth race look like ? Which Lore ?

I would replace hellions by firebat and stalkers by adept design. Then MAYBE, a fourth race design could be look ahead to robot/star wars/fallout ref (only robot no human, controlled by IA ?) . I think it s a real challenge



kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary474 Posts
May 26 2024 09:44 GMT
#40
Watching i am absolutely interested. In fact i would love to see a tournament with BW races only in SC2 engine. BW vs SC2 while absolutely fun to watch not really balanced. But nevertheless i'd still watch it.
Why so serious?
crbox
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1180 Posts
May 26 2024 15:19 GMT
#41
Hey dumb fucks can you nuke my account thank you
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10670 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-27 08:33:38
May 27 2024 08:33 GMT
#42
On May 27 2024 00:19 crbox wrote:
Hey dumb fucks can you nuke my account thank you


lol this made me chuckle but wtf -_-
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17971 Posts
May 27 2024 10:34 GMT
#43
On May 25 2024 05:07 ruhtraeel wrote:
What if SC1 workers also mined 8 minerals like in SC1 instead of 5

Might make up for Queen inject, Mules and Boost throughout the game

Don't they do that in the mod? Or maybe they just mine faster, working out to effectively the same buff?
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
May 27 2024 10:54 GMT
#44
On May 27 2024 19:34 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2024 05:07 ruhtraeel wrote:
What if SC1 workers also mined 8 minerals like in SC1 instead of 5

Might make up for Queen inject, Mules and Boost throughout the game

Don't they do that in the mod? Or maybe they just mine faster, working out to effectively the same buff?


In SC:Evo BW workers do have a small mining buff through their speed, but I think the growing sentiment is that it is not enough to make up for the lack of SC2 economic tools.

So if they were buffed to ALSO receive 8 minerals a trip, in addition to the speed buff they have, it might be what's needed to balance out the disparity in power that comes from MULES, Queens and Chronoboost.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9376 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-27 17:34:28
May 27 2024 17:33 GMT
#45
On May 27 2024 19:54 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2024 19:34 Acrofales wrote:
On May 25 2024 05:07 ruhtraeel wrote:
What if SC1 workers also mined 8 minerals like in SC1 instead of 5

Might make up for Queen inject, Mules and Boost throughout the game

Don't they do that in the mod? Or maybe they just mine faster, working out to effectively the same buff?


In SC:Evo BW workers do have a small mining buff through their speed, but I think the growing sentiment is that it is not enough to make up for the lack of SC2 economic tools.

So if they were buffed to ALSO receive 8 minerals a trip, in addition to the speed buff they have, it might be what's needed to balance out the disparity in power that comes from MULES, Queens and Chronoboost.


On the other hand Sc1 has way stronger spellcasters, aoe. The mod is "balanced" very differently and players needs to abuse their races in different ways. I watched a lot of VOD's (probably 50+ high level games) and I am honestly more inclined to think Sc1 might be op. But need more time to figure it out. Don't think anyone atm has played enough high level games to have strong opinions on this.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
May 27 2024 21:38 GMT
#46
On May 28 2024 02:33 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2024 19:54 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 27 2024 19:34 Acrofales wrote:
On May 25 2024 05:07 ruhtraeel wrote:
What if SC1 workers also mined 8 minerals like in SC1 instead of 5

Might make up for Queen inject, Mules and Boost throughout the game

Don't they do that in the mod? Or maybe they just mine faster, working out to effectively the same buff?


In SC:Evo BW workers do have a small mining buff through their speed, but I think the growing sentiment is that it is not enough to make up for the lack of SC2 economic tools.

So if they were buffed to ALSO receive 8 minerals a trip, in addition to the speed buff they have, it might be what's needed to balance out the disparity in power that comes from MULES, Queens and Chronoboost.


On the other hand Sc1 has way stronger spellcasters, aoe. The mod is "balanced" very differently and players needs to abuse their races in different ways. I watched a lot of VOD's (probably 50+ high level games) and I am honestly more inclined to think Sc1 might be op. But need more time to figure it out. Don't think anyone atm has played enough high level games to have strong opinions on this.


The problem with that is that spellcasters especially Starcraft 1 spellcasters take a long time to get out and impact a game. Economic bonuses are constant, they affect every aspect of the game from start to finish.

When you say "oh but your casters are better." That's basically saying that the understood win condition for a SC1 race is to get out spellcasters in sufficient numbers and use them effectively enough that the SC2 player can't come back.


The obvious counter to that is, oh just kill them before they can get their spellcasters out. And because of the economic disparity between the two sides, the SC2 races are more than capable of being able to do that.

As we should know by now in RTS games. Early and mid game balance supercedes late game balance except when there is a significant skill disparity, and right now SC2 races are just straight up better except in the late game.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
caxilaw339
Profile Joined May 2024
1 Post
May 28 2024 01:37 GMT
#47
Wow, honestly wasn’t expecting the vast majority to be in favor of the new mod.

Don’t get me wrong, this is the best damn thing since SC2 was announced. But I can’t imagine how crazy some of the things being brought from BW will be (like Dark Swarm, Reaver micro, Arbiter’s recall, Science Vessels, Vultures).

Obviously, I could be over-exaggerating. Only time will tell, but one thing is for sure: I haven’t been this excited in YEARS!!
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6174 Posts
May 28 2024 03:20 GMT
#48
I am not interested. As a viewer SC2 is not pleasant to view. The graphics are not clear enough unless watching from a table sized 2k+ monitor.

It is a fun idea to add in one tournament, but I rather watch high level games in a balanced game.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-28 06:53:18
May 28 2024 06:46 GMT
#49
I m also interested in the mod for selecting which TOOLS can be added to SC2 (to get more fun)
Here my point of view list (without explication or details on his impact)

Dragoons (+ground control for protoss)
Arbiter recall (instead of recall to nexus)
Vultures or stingers with mines (+ground control, better idea compared to single mines)
Firebats
Lockdown of Ghosts (interesting cf. Cure games, not sure because so many spells looks like to Lockdown)
Infested terrans
Hydralisks T1 (Banelings upgrade move to T2 Lair)

Which tools from BW would you implement to SC2 ?
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1010 Posts
May 28 2024 10:13 GMT
#50
Watched the supermatch and it was a little amusing but not something I would watch again. SC1 starting with lots of workers plus everything operating on the SC2 engine makes it just not feel like SC1 to me. It was funny seeing 60 HP SCVs wreck SC2 units though.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17971 Posts
May 28 2024 10:35 GMT
#51
I watched the VOD of Tasteless' showmatch. It definitely was entertaining, but I don't really understand the focus on balance of the last few pages. This is clearly neither balanced, nor intended to be balancable. It's meant to be a "faithful" representation of a port of BW to the SC2 engine, duking it out with the SC2 versions of the same races. SC1 economy being behind SC2 seems irrelevant when you can race to reaver drops and bomb the shit out of everything, or have incredibly broken siege tanks. Or irradiate, or dark swarm. But on the other hand, have 0 defense against early glaives, oracles or roach/ravagers. It's fun and entertaining, and I love how much buzz it has created in both BW and SC2 communities. It's cool and we should enjoy it as such. It is also remarkably less clearly broken than I expected. Sure, there was some idiotic broken stuff, but it seemed like every viewpoint had something abusable. So it didn't really matter. Just let it all exist for a good amount of time, and if in a few months people are still enjoying this as more than a novelty, and there are very clearly broken, abusable matchups that cannot be fixed with maps, then it might be time to discuss balance changes the way SC2 does it.
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