EPTOn January 25 2024 03:48 spirit76 wrote:
do you have a link? i cant find the article.
do you have a link? i cant find the article.
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/484252-greatest-players-of-all-time-the-finale
#7: soO - Greatest Players of All Time - Page 3
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/484252-greatest-players-of-all-time-the-finale | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1916 Posts
On January 25 2024 04:22 spirit76 wrote: some people dont understand how great MVP was. its not just about how many championships he won, its also about how dominant he was, how he changed the game, the builds he had, his macro, his micro, how great he was in big important matches, how smart he was, he was ahead of everyone, i was great to see him play back in the day. sadly his wrist and other injuries prevent him of winning more tournament and his career was cut short. but even with all those health issues, he was still dominant and doing crazy things. his wrists were THE OTHER ISSUES. the main problem was his back/neck/spine, which put him in constant pain when he was playing the game. | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
On January 24 2024 21:18 Locutus_ wrote: Serral / Maru / Rogue / MvP / Dark / Zest / Innovation... One of those is out then. Its Zest or Dark. Hard Call. I think Zest is out though. I think Dark might be out because there's absolutely no criteria where Rain > Zest makes sense; Zest won more during the Kespa era than Rain, was good in proleague, and had later accomplishments too. Zest and Dark both deserve to be in the top 10 though. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19316 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26421 Posts
On January 25 2024 04:22 spirit76 wrote: some people dont understand how great MVP was. its not just about how many championships he won, its also about how dominant he was, how he changed the game, the builds he had, his macro, his micro, how great he was in big important matches, how smart he was, he was ahead of everyone, i was great to see him play back in the day. sadly his wrist and other injuries prevent him of winning more tournament and his career was cut short. but even with all those health issues, he was still dominant and doing crazy things. The complete player, mechanically above his peers, a great series planner and a huge innovator in terms of establishing standard meta play. I don’t think anyone else has really been all 3, although to be fair it was easier to be innovative in an era where the game was fleshed out a lot less fleshed out. | ||
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spirit76
25 Posts
On January 25 2024 04:28 RPR_Tempest wrote: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/484252-greatest-players-of-all-time-the-finale thanks! to me MVP is the goat! he will always be. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On January 25 2024 02:25 yubo56 wrote: yeah I agree, this is an incredibly hot take if Rogue got 7th haha, with 4 GSLs and 3 WCs I agree with the rest of the people that it seems like the remaining six must be maru rogue serral inno mvp zest (roughly), so it looks like Dark is out  And fair enough, soO did have a much more dominant peak (even if it was without golds) than Dark, and Dark never really managed to string together anything resembling a reign of dominance. He's probably the single greatest "good player of the game", in that his play passes every eye test, but he simply never got the results to match. I think that stats and trap are kinda in that bucket too though, so maybe not single greatest haha.Though I do think that mvp's reign at the top is kinda short, at only two years, and his "four GSLs" are boosted by the number of GSLs, he won 4/17 GSLs in a 1yr4mo spread... I wonder if there's any chance his relative lack of longevity kicks him out? But of course, he is part of THE sc2 experience for most longtime fans, so if we're making a list of the greatest players of all time (and not just the best / most dominant players), that X factor probably keeps him in the list. I like Dark play style. It was messy, scrappy, and sometimes pure dirty  . Was never that impressed with MVP. I rank him in the same tier as MC and Nestea who were the pioneers for WOL. He gets a bit more “spotlight” than his peers because he plays terran. And terrans usually gets a little more bias love in general. Greatest WOL terran: MVP Greatest HOTS terran: inno (honourable mention to Taeja) Greatest LOTV terran: Maru Overall it’s just a list created by the writer, so it’s all fun and games. Personally I would have left out TY and put dark instead, but then again it’s his opinion which we all have one | ||
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Glorfindelio
223 Posts
MVP has to make this list, or basically none of the legacy players makes it in. Incredible innovator and mechanics for his time. When he was healthy, there was everyone else...and then there was MVP. Hard to describe that aura from back in the day after all these years of Sc2. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
It takes a few years removed to properly assess someone contextually. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On January 25 2024 06:45 Glorfindelio wrote: Would feel a bit weird if Dark wasn't in here, as he's been so good for so long--though perhaps never quite at the level where he was acknowledged as the undisputed best player in the world and his "clutch" stats are a bit lacking. MVP has to make this list, or basically none of the legacy players makes it in. Incredible innovator and mechanics for his time. When he was healthy, there was everyone else...and then there was MVP. Hard to describe that aura from back in the day after all these years of Sc2. Dark was definitely regarded as the best player in the world in 2016 until he narrowly lost in the global finals, but I do agree him not being in the top 10 would make this list even more controversial. Dark’s lack of individual results in Hots is likely going to be used against him but I don’t think it’s his own fault since SKT was intentionally using him as a zvt sniper back then, resulting in him having world-class zvt but lackluster zvp in an era when Protoss was quite dominant (haven’t seen those in a long time lol). | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13992 Posts
On January 25 2024 10:49 yht9657 wrote: Dark was definitely regarded as the best player in the world in 2016 until he narrowly lost in the global finals, but I do agree him not being in the top 10 would make this list even more controversial. Dark’s lack of individual results in Hots is likely going to be used against him but I don’t think it’s his own fault since SKT was intentionally using him as a zvt sniper back then, resulting in him having world-class zvt but lackluster zvp in an era when Protoss was quite dominant (haven’t seen those in a long time lol). Boy Dark not being in top 10 would be craaazy wouldnt it. Luckily he def is.  | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
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Kitai
United States880 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On January 25 2024 14:01 Kitai wrote: Honestly wouldn't mind if MVP didn't make the list. His reign of dominance lasted less than 2 years and SC2 has been out for 13.5 years. He and Nestea were certainly the two greatest of WoL and they get props for figuring things out before everyone else, but they disappeared before everyone truly got gud. He never played against the vast majority of the other greatest of all timers in their primes like Maru, Serral, Rogue, Dark, Zest etc. He barely got to meet INno and soO in competition and has a losing record against both of them in that admittedly tiny sample size. IMO if he were to be on this list, it would have been at 9 or 10, and anything better is just leaning too hard on nostalgia. Deserves to be on there just for schooling Innovatbum on Akilon Wastes. | ||
nimdil
Poland3753 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3753 Posts
On January 24 2024 17:13 spirit76 wrote: MC to me is also top ten, he changed the way protoss is played and he still has the record for more gsl for a protoss player. soO doesnt belong in the top 10. Most GSLs? Trap won 3 GSL Super Tournaments which are basically equivalent to GSL Open Tournament from 2010. | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
On January 25 2024 17:24 nimdil wrote: Most GSLs? Trap won 3 GSL Super Tournaments which are basically equivalent to GSL Open Tournament from 2010. Yeah, except for the small little detail of thousands of people trying to qualify for the Open Seasons and like, 50 (if that) for modern GSLs. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26421 Posts
On January 25 2024 18:44 RPR_Tempest wrote: Yeah, except for the small little detail of thousands of people trying to qualify for the Open Seasons and like, 50 (if that) for modern GSLs. A comparison can’t really be made, different eras and all that and different formats. Still super impressive, I dunno how to weigh it. It’s definitely not half a GSL, that’s a bit low, maybe an ST is equivalent to 3/4 of a GSL? | ||
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nimdil
Poland3753 Posts
On January 25 2024 19:00 WombaT wrote: A comparison can’t really be made, different eras and all that and different formats. Still super impressive, I dunno how to weigh it. It’s definitely not half a GSL, that’s a bit low, maybe an ST is equivalent to 3/4 of a GSL? There can always be arguments why this or that title is not equal to perfect GSL title. I remember that 2011 (maybe 2012?) argument was made, that it is actually not that easy to fell from Code S to Code A, with exception like last stages of Code S, Code A is superior in quality. Super Tournament and Global Championship are shorter, less money, lesser format etc. I remember that fanboy train of Mvp was perfectly OK with looking the other way when conversation was made about GOAT of early SC2 as one of his 4 GSLs was World Championship - certainly questionable event that was basically invitational. On the other hand Super Tournament Polt has won was not only stack with massive number of players, it was perhaps GSL event with highest prize pool ever (I think it was a tadbit higher than open seasons). If later Super Tournaments are "lesser" breed, we can start discussing which Code S are superior to which. I don't think it is very healthy argument. | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
I think even the Blizzard Cup in 2012 was seen as legit, when exactly did the change occur? | ||
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