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What's the correct order of naming the three races of Star…

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TL.net Bot
Profile Joined June 2004
TL.net131 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-17 16:26:57
April 17 2023 16:26 GMT
#1
Discussion thread for front page poll:
What's the correct order of naming the three races of StarCraft?
bela.mervado
Profile Joined December 2008
Hungary387 Posts
April 17 2023 16:31 GMT
#2
I like to list them in alphabetic order when we talk about SC with my sons

1. Dinos
2. Humans
3. UFOs
Kenny808mk
Profile Joined January 2023
France11 Posts
April 17 2023 16:55 GMT
#3
Terran Protoss Zerg obviously
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
April 17 2023 17:19 GMT
#4
1. Terran
2. Zerg
3. Bullshit
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
April 17 2023 17:45 GMT
#5
?? TZP.
Terran Episode I Rebel Yell, Zerg Episode II Overmind, Protoss Episode III The Stand.
sunbeams are never made like me...
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1893 Posts
April 17 2023 18:27 GMT
#6
Terran -> Protoss -> Zerg
... einmal mit Profis spielen!
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
April 17 2023 19:56 GMT
#7
On April 18 2023 02:19 Nakajin wrote:
1. Terran
2. Zerg
3. Bullshit


this is correct
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
April 17 2023 21:11 GMT
#8
putting the correct response as the top choice sorta ruins the integrity of those poll, don't you think?
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Mutaller
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States1051 Posts
April 17 2023 21:45 GMT
#9
say it outload and you will agree Protoss, Terran and Zerg sounds the best.
"To practice isn't for you to get better now in the present. Practice will never betray you and will always come back for you in the future." -Jaedong
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12803 Posts
April 17 2023 22:26 GMT
#10
I would say terran, zerg, protoss because of the expansions
WriterMaru
Kalera
Profile Joined January 2018
United States338 Posts
April 18 2023 00:19 GMT
#11
On April 18 2023 06:11 BluemoonSC wrote:
putting the correct response as the top choice sorta ruins the integrity of those poll, don't you think?


A more rigorous poll would randomize the order.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
April 18 2023 00:44 GMT
#12
On April 18 2023 06:11 BluemoonSC wrote:
putting the correct response as the top choice sorta ruins the integrity of those poll, don't you think?


They voted for the wrong one anyway
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3373 Posts
April 18 2023 04:31 GMT
#13
Ghost
Carrier
Queen
esReveR
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
April 18 2023 04:40 GMT
#14
Alphabetical is correct.
Skill is relative.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33367 Posts
April 18 2023 05:22 GMT
#15
I understand TZP #1 since it's the campaign order but I'm pretty amused by how TPZ is such a strong #2
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
April 18 2023 05:38 GMT
#16
In order for the 3 races: aeegnoPrssrTtZ
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4193 Posts
April 18 2023 08:30 GMT
#17
T / P / Z

clearly
odi profanum vulgus et arceo
MJG
Profile Joined May 2018
United Kingdom967 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-18 09:20:25
April 18 2023 09:20 GMT
#18
On April 18 2023 02:19 Nakajin wrote:
1. Terran
2. Zerg
3. Bullshit

Which race gets the most unsolicited abuse?

1. Protoss
2. Protoss
3. Protoss

"You have to play for yourself, you have to play to get better; you can't play to make other people happy, that's not gonna ever sustain you." - NonY
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
2843 Posts
April 18 2023 09:57 GMT
#19
It's Terran-Zerg-Protoss for sure. Anyone doing anything different is a hipster.

aka wilted_kale
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
April 18 2023 10:21 GMT
#20
to me it's always been Terran - Zerg - Protoss and it irritates me that Liquipedia does it alphabetically
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-18 10:37:57
April 18 2023 10:37 GMT
#21
On April 18 2023 19:21 Schelim wrote:
to me it's always been Terran - Zerg - Protoss and it irritates me that Liquipedia does it alphabetically



Alphabetically is the gramatically correct way in English (:
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
April 18 2023 10:38 GMT
#22
Lore-wise it would be Protoss Zerg Terran by order of creation / appearance.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
April 18 2023 10:47 GMT
#23
Protoss (get it out the way quick, and have the others to clear your mouth)
Terran (stuck in the middle of two warring aliens)
Zerg (leave the best for last)

Very unbiased analysis.

Also think it just sounds better saying it out loud this way.

dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
April 18 2023 11:24 GMT
#24
Terran Protoss Zerg
MaxPax
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1152 Posts
April 18 2023 11:44 GMT
#25
Protoss - Zerg - The other one
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
April 18 2023 16:56 GMT
#26
On April 18 2023 19:38 zatic wrote:
Lore-wise it would be Protoss Zerg Terran by order of creation / appearance.


you just HAD to bring lore into it didn't you
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Akio
Profile Blog Joined January 2019
Finland1838 Posts
April 18 2023 18:57 GMT
#27
I think TerranZergProtoss is the most correct but TerranProtossZerg rolls off the tongue better
Mine gas, build tanks.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9191 Posts
April 18 2023 19:07 GMT
#28
Terran Protoss Zerg or Protoss Terran Zerg. Zerg has to be last. The match ups in my head are always TvZ, PvZ and... I think it's TvP but PvT sounds just as good. ZvP or ZvT sounds wrong.
You're now breathing manually
Galacsia
Profile Joined February 2020
Chile161 Posts
April 19 2023 02:51 GMT
#29
Obviously TZP. However I can accept PTZ as a 2nd order from the bw campaign.
The other options make no sense.
BeSt / Bisu ftw!!
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
April 19 2023 05:04 GMT
#30
On April 19 2023 04:07 Sent. wrote:
Terran Protoss Zerg or Protoss Terran Zerg. Zerg has to be last. The match ups in my head are always TvZ, PvZ and... I think it's TvP but PvT sounds just as good. ZvP or ZvT sounds wrong.


I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44271 Posts
April 19 2023 10:09 GMT
#31
The original campaign order was T -> Z -> P, so I've always put it in this order.

On April 19 2023 14:04 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2023 04:07 Sent. wrote:
Terran Protoss Zerg or Protoss Terran Zerg. Zerg has to be last. The match ups in my head are always TvZ, PvZ and... I think it's TvP but PvT sounds just as good. ZvP or ZvT sounds wrong.


I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o


Agreed.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
April 19 2023 13:04 GMT
#32
What s the purpose of this thread ?
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
April 19 2023 13:27 GMT
#33
On April 19 2023 22:04 Vision_ wrote:
What s the purpose of this thread ?


To determine the correct order of naming the three races of Starcraft.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
April 19 2023 14:54 GMT
#34
On April 19 2023 19:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The original campaign order was T -> Z -> P, so I've always put it in this order.

Show nested quote +
On April 19 2023 14:04 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On April 19 2023 04:07 Sent. wrote:
Terran Protoss Zerg or Protoss Terran Zerg. Zerg has to be last. The match ups in my head are always TvZ, PvZ and... I think it's TvP but PvT sounds just as good. ZvP or ZvT sounds wrong.


I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o


Agreed.

But what about the box art!?!
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
April 19 2023 14:57 GMT
#35
zerg clearly comes last.

T P Z sounds very right, but P T Z doesn't sound wrong either.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44271 Posts
April 19 2023 15:15 GMT
#36
On April 19 2023 23:54 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2023 19:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The original campaign order was T -> Z -> P, so I've always put it in this order.

On April 19 2023 14:04 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On April 19 2023 04:07 Sent. wrote:
Terran Protoss Zerg or Protoss Terran Zerg. Zerg has to be last. The match ups in my head are always TvZ, PvZ and... I think it's TvP but PvT sounds just as good. ZvP or ZvT sounds wrong.


I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o


Agreed.

But what about the box art!?!


The box art is phenomenal in any order.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
KameZerg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1762 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-19 16:38:48
April 19 2023 16:36 GMT
#37
Obviously in the order the original 1998 campaign is supposed to be played which was Terran -> Zerg -> Protoss
asdasdasdasdasd123123123
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
April 19 2023 17:16 GMT
#38
This is the most invested I've been in the answers to a TL thread in a while not gonna lie.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9191 Posts
April 19 2023 17:38 GMT
#39
On April 19 2023 14:04 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2023 04:07 Sent. wrote:
Terran Protoss Zerg or Protoss Terran Zerg. Zerg has to be last. The match ups in my head are always TvZ, PvZ and... I think it's TvP but PvT sounds just as good. ZvP or ZvT sounds wrong.


I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o


I meant an abstract match where it doesn't matter who the Zerg or Terran is. If I'm watching Serral vs Maru, it's a TvZ in my head even though I mostly play Zerg recently. Of course that doesn't mean I'd say something like "Serral's TvZ is good". It can be "his ZvT", but if someone asked me to name the match up between Serral and Maru, I'd say it's a TvZ.
You're now breathing manually
catplanetcatplanet
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3829 Posts
April 19 2023 17:48 GMT
#40
What's the worst-sounding order? Protoss - Zerg - Terran kind of makes me wince.
I think it's finally time to admit it might not be the year of Pet
moonsjde
Profile Joined October 2022
48 Posts
April 19 2023 18:22 GMT
#41
terran protoss and zerg

terran is the "original" race that starts the story and is based on real life and zerg sounds best at the end because it's only one syllable so protoss goes in the middle by elimination
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
April 19 2023 21:10 GMT
#42
Terran Zerg Protoss
TvZ
ZvP
PvT in that order for me.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Kalera
Profile Joined January 2018
United States338 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-20 00:05:20
April 20 2023 00:04 GMT
#43
TZP seems logical based on campaigns, but TPZ rolls off the tongue more smoothly.
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States831 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-20 04:33:03
April 20 2023 04:32 GMT
#44
I am honestly thinking of leaving TL if this poll is the standard view.
Zerg, Terran, Protoss

falls off the tongue way better than any of the other choices.
Also, Terran first is a horrible choice for the simple fact that we are implicitly biased towards "Terran" as humans. Gross results
You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7801 Posts
April 20 2023 11:03 GMT
#45
Terran Protoss Zerg sounds the best so I voted for it.

That said, Terran Zerg Protoss was how the original game introduced the campaigns. I am inclined to agree this is "correct"
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-20 17:23:59
April 20 2023 17:22 GMT
#46
On April 19 2023 22:27 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2023 22:04 Vision_ wrote:
What s the purpose of this thread ?


To determine the correct order of naming the three races of Starcraft.


People have time to loss...
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States873 Posts
April 20 2023 17:23 GMT
#47
It's always been Terran Zerg Protoss for me due to the campaign order in StarCraft and expansion order for SC2
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
April 20 2023 17:49 GMT
#48
On April 21 2023 02:22 Vision_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2023 22:27 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On April 19 2023 22:04 Vision_ wrote:
What s the purpose of this thread ?


To determine the correct order of naming the three races of Starcraft.


People have time to loss...


*lose

Besides, if this isn't a priority, I can't imagine what is. You wouldn't want to get the order wrong would you?
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
April 21 2023 01:54 GMT
#49
No one has given the following reasoning yet for T-Z-P:

The game always felt most clearly about the Terran confrontation with the Zerg. And then the Protoss felt like a third thing, like a secondary variable that Terran were never quite sure how to deal with. They always seemed secondary to dealing with the Zerg menace.

Heck, even in pro Brood War, Protoss was always the marginal race. The history of Brood War is largely a Terran/Zerg rivalry with Protoss popping in less often.

I know it's specious and illogical -- but that's just how I feel about it.
For Aiur???
Kenny808mk
Profile Joined January 2023
France11 Posts
April 21 2023 10:14 GMT
#50
Damn i thought teamliquid had a nice and educated community.. a good chunk sure is, but has everywhere else i can see the majority are rather ignorant.. Well at least they're not evil i guess..
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1913 Posts
April 21 2023 12:35 GMT
#51
On April 18 2023 02:45 outscar wrote:
?? TZP.
Terran Episode I Rebel Yell, Zerg Episode II Overmind, Protoss Episode III The Stand.


This is correct, the order in the original campaign, and the SC2 expansions too.
Buff the siegetank
aringadingding
Profile Joined September 2010
474 Posts
April 21 2023 14:53 GMT
#52
why is this interesting? How did this question even pop up? I am actually curious both to why it was written down in the first place and also that people feel enough about this to comment. Interesting
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
April 21 2023 16:04 GMT
#53
On April 21 2023 02:49 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2023 02:22 Vision_ wrote:
On April 19 2023 22:27 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
On April 19 2023 22:04 Vision_ wrote:
What s the purpose of this thread ?


To determine the correct order of naming the three races of Starcraft.


People have time to loss...


*lose

Besides, if this isn't a priority, I can't imagine what is. You wouldn't want to get the order wrong would you?


I can t imagine Tolkien creating his world and say : First there s hobbit. Then the second day comes elves, the third day comes human and dwarves... I suppose that a masterpiece can t be created from nothing in one shot, there s multiple drafts and i m convinced there s no interest to define the order of ideas appearing in the mind of this kind of genius, ideas are the essence of creation so arguing which one comes the first look stupid to me.
Riner1212
Profile Joined November 2012
United States337 Posts
April 21 2023 17:15 GMT
#54
whats the point of this poll?
Sjow "pretty ez life as protoss"
moonsjde
Profile Joined October 2022
48 Posts
April 22 2023 04:35 GMT
#55
On April 21 2023 23:53 aringadingding wrote:
why is this interesting? How did this question even pop up? I am actually curious both to why it was written down in the first place and also that people feel enough about this to comment. Interesting

why do you find it interesting that people find it interesting
Mutaller
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States1051 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-25 18:54:46
April 22 2023 17:20 GMT
#56
I mentioned earlier that TPZ sounds the best.. I think a lot of people are just voting on the order in which they appeared, expansion order, or the order they think of the races. I know for fact if I am speaking I will say Terran Protoss and Zerg now that I know it is the smoothest for me to say.

edit: stupid mistake
"To practice isn't for you to get better now in the present. Practice will never betray you and will always come back for you in the future." -Jaedong
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
April 22 2023 18:18 GMT
#57
On April 18 2023 14:22 Waxangel wrote:
I understand TZP #1 since it's the campaign order but I'm pretty amused by how TPZ is such a strong #2


I'm also confused by TPZ. I thought it would be campaign order or alphabetical order.

On April 18 2023 19:38 zatic wrote:
Lore-wise it would be Protoss Zerg Terran by order of creation / appearance.


I don't know that this is true at all. I don't know that there are any dates to approximate the beginnings of the Protoss race, but the exile of the Dark Templar happened around 1000 years before Brood War, or around 1500 C.E. And with their evolution having been sped up by the Xel'Naga, it seems very likely that humanity predates the Protoss by a huge margin. Unless you're using "Terran" to refer specifically to Koprulu Sector humans.

On April 21 2023 10:54 Fighter wrote:
No one has given the following reasoning yet for T-Z-P:

The game always felt most clearly about the Terran confrontation with the Zerg. And then the Protoss felt like a third thing, like a secondary variable that Terran were never quite sure how to deal with. They always seemed secondary to dealing with the Zerg menace.

Heck, even in pro Brood War, Protoss was always the marginal race. The history of Brood War is largely a Terran/Zerg rivalry with Protoss popping in less often.

I know it's specious and illogical -- but that's just how I feel about it.


This has been my biggest complaint with the games' story by far. Original StarCraft was Protoss vs. Zerg with Terrans caught in the middle, and since then Blizzard don't seem to have had any idea what to do with Protoss. In Brood War Fenix and his forces are basically included as the in-game forces for the Terran character of Raynor, who has the motivations. And in StarCraft 2 they created the Tal'darim just so they could have Protoss units in the game without having to figure out a way to have Protoss actually involved in the story.

And I don't even want to talk about Legacy of the Void.

On April 23 2023 02:20 Mutaller wrote:
I mentioned earlier that TPZ sounds the best. I didn't even realize it was alphabetical on top of that.


Uh...
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-23 06:17:28
April 23 2023 06:14 GMT
#58
On April 23 2023 03:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2023 19:38 zatic wrote:
Lore-wise it would be Protoss Zerg Terran by order of creation / appearance.


I don't know that this is true at all. I don't know that there are any dates to approximate the beginnings of the Protoss race, but the exile of the Dark Templar happened around 1000 years before Brood War, or around 1500 C.E. And with their evolution having been sped up by the Xel'Naga, it seems very likely that humanity predates the Protoss by a huge margin. Unless you're using "Terran" to refer specifically to Koprulu Sector humans.

There is no exact timeline, but Protoss records speak of the Xel Naga ruling their worlds "10s of millions of years ago". If we take the exit of the Xel Naga from Aiur as the end of that period, which makes sense from Protoss records, then it's been millions of years from the Protoss creation.

Even the Protoss evolutionary timeline has them living for "hundreds of generations" before the Xel Naga speed their evolution for another 1000 years for the Protoss to reach sentience. After "a few thousand years" the Protoss civil war begins and rages for "countless of generations" and "countless centuries".
When the Khala is formed, it is the first time in "thousands of years" that the Protoss regain their primal link. It takes another "few centuries" before the Protoss settle worlds other than Aiur and watch the arrival of the Terrans.

In both timelines I see the Protoss coming before humanity.

Now the Zerg has no dated timeline, and it's possible that the Xel/Naga took their time before continuing their experiment on Zerus after Aiur. Maybe Zerg were created after humanity evolved on Earth. By the Protoss records ("millions of years") that seems unlikely.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
April 23 2023 13:48 GMT
#59
On April 23 2023 15:14 zatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2023 03:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On April 18 2023 19:38 zatic wrote:
Lore-wise it would be Protoss Zerg Terran by order of creation / appearance.


I don't know that this is true at all. I don't know that there are any dates to approximate the beginnings of the Protoss race, but the exile of the Dark Templar happened around 1000 years before Brood War, or around 1500 C.E. And with their evolution having been sped up by the Xel'Naga, it seems very likely that humanity predates the Protoss by a huge margin. Unless you're using "Terran" to refer specifically to Koprulu Sector humans.

There is no exact timeline, but Protoss records speak of the Xel Naga ruling their worlds "10s of millions of years ago". If we take the exit of the Xel Naga from Aiur as the end of that period, which makes sense from Protoss records, then it's been millions of years from the Protoss creation.

Even the Protoss evolutionary timeline has them living for "hundreds of generations" before the Xel Naga speed their evolution for another 1000 years for the Protoss to reach sentience. After "a few thousand years" the Protoss civil war begins and rages for "countless of generations" and "countless centuries".
When the Khala is formed, it is the first time in "thousands of years" that the Protoss regain their primal link. It takes another "few centuries" before the Protoss settle worlds other than Aiur and watch the arrival of the Terrans.

In both timelines I see the Protoss coming before humanity.


I see what you mean. I was going backwards from ~2500 C.E. StarCraft present, ~1500 C.E. the exile of the Dark Templar, at a time when Raszagal would still be able to remember. It's hard to imagine the Conclave would allow them to exist for long after the unification of Aiur, since it's the central sin of their ideology, so I assume only a few centuries between the exile and the creation of the Khala, then centuries, generations or millennia (conflicting sources) since the departure of the Xel'Naga. Even assuming 1000 years between the Khala and the Dark Templar exile, and 2000 years for the Aeon of Strife, both of which I find excessively generous, that still only puts us at ~1500 B.C.E. Add then whatever time the Xel'Naga spend on Aiur with the Protoss, which feels rather short from the description but with such long-lived species could be deceptive. I always assumed it was decades, a century or two at most, but it could be longer. But even giving this another 1000 years of Xel'Naga-Protoss cohabitation, we still get only ~2500 B.C.E. We're still well within the Bronze Age at the point where the Xel'Naga decide that the Protoss have evolved into their modern forms.

I was assuming that pre-Xel'Naga contact Protoss would be the equivalent of earlier hominids and post-contact would be homo sapiens, which are thought to have evolved around 300 000 years ago, compared to Xel'Naga-Protoss contact I estimate at only a few thousand years ago, less than 10 000 by any measure I can imagine. Even adding the hundreds of generations and other thousand years the Xel'Naga observed them, we're nowhere close to the hundreds of thousands of years to reach the birth of homo sapiens. The only date that eclipses that is the Xel'Naga's own history, said to date back tens of millions of years ago.

Of course, all of this is massively speculative, from the timeframes to where we choose to identify the origins of the Protoss, to even how exact the Protoss dates are for anything preceding the creation of the Khala, as much of their knowledge and history was lost to the Aeon of Strife.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
April 23 2023 15:42 GMT
#60
I mean Protoss live for hundreds of years, so "countless" of generations can easily be 100 000 years and more. From the Khala to present day is pretty recent, yes, so ~2500 years seems about right. But before that the Protoss history can easily stretch for longer than humanity existed.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
datastuff
Profile Joined September 2020
31 Posts
April 23 2023 23:56 GMT
#61
Khas accessing the psychic bond was "the first time in thousands of years". The aeon of strife can't have been longer than that. For zerg, the overmind was "created several millennia ago" and there's no way amon spent that long before making it. Unless you accept the primal zerg retcon then they're probably the oldest?

The timeline isn't very coherent tbh
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1852 Posts
April 24 2023 00:39 GMT
#62
Bootleg Tyranids, Ripped Off Space Elves (Eldar, Aeldari, take your pick), Imperial Guard on Drugs.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
April 24 2023 01:26 GMT
#63
Well I'm surprised the amount of knowledge about the Starcraft Universe.
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-26 02:06:05
April 26 2023 02:05 GMT
#64
On April 24 2023 00:42 zatic wrote:
I mean Protoss live for hundreds of years, so "countless" of generations can easily be 100 000 years and more. From the Khala to present day is pretty recent, yes, so ~2500 years seems about right. But before that the Protoss history can easily stretch for longer than humanity existed.


Sure, it can, but why should it?

On April 24 2023 09:39 Mizenhauer wrote:
Bootleg Tyranids, Ripped Off Space Elves (Eldar, Aeldari, take your pick), Imperial Guard on Drugs.


I've heard people saying that StarCraft ripped of Warhammer 40k a lot, but I've never really gotten a bead on how? Other than both having Starship Troopers and Alien influences, I've found most of the commonalities pretty superficial? Though to be honest, I don't know that much about 40k, I only played a bit of Warhammer Original Flavour back in High School, and some Warhammer Total War.

On April 24 2023 10:26 Malongo wrote:
Well I'm surprised the amount of knowledge about the Starcraft Universe.


I was a lore nerd for a decade before I saw my first professional game. I used to do this ranting on SCLegacy, but that site's been down for a while, so I'm taking this opportunity instead :D.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1852 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-26 15:19:38
April 26 2023 15:08 GMT
#65
On April 26 2023 11:05 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2023 00:42 zatic wrote:
I mean Protoss live for hundreds of years, so "countless" of generations can easily be 100 000 years and more. From the Khala to present day is pretty recent, yes, so ~2500 years seems about right. But before that the Protoss history can easily stretch for longer than humanity existed.


Sure, it can, but why should it?

Show nested quote +
On April 24 2023 09:39 Mizenhauer wrote:
Bootleg Tyranids, Ripped Off Space Elves (Eldar, Aeldari, take your pick), Imperial Guard on Drugs.


I've heard people saying that StarCraft ripped of Warhammer 40k a lot, but I've never really gotten a bead on how? Other than both having Starship Troopers and Alien influences, I've found most of the commonalities pretty superficial? Though to be honest, I don't know that much about 40k, I only played a bit of Warhammer Original Flavour back in High School, and some Warhammer Total War.

Show nested quote +
On April 24 2023 10:26 Malongo wrote:
Well I'm surprised the amount of knowledge about the Starcraft Universe.


I was a lore nerd for a decade before I saw my first professional game. I used to do this ranting on SCLegacy, but that site's been down for a while, so I'm taking this opportunity instead :D.


Blizz has an awkward history with games workshop. The art style of Warcraft was heavily influenced by GW (you weren't seeing buff greenskinned orcs anywhere else at the time) and they actually wanted to obtain a license for Warhammer in order to give warcraft more commercial appeal.

As for StarCraft II, the races are pretty blatant copies of Warhammer 40k factions. The Zerg are insectoid aliens rules by a hive mind that biologically adapt in the same manner Tyranids do and often biological weapons/claws just like them.

Protoss are just space elves. The Eldar in W40k were a long lived very powerful, prideful and advanced race that incited an apocalypses of their own making. Since then they are less plentiful and less in number and often butt heads with the younger species.

The depiction of Terrans as sort of down on their luck space cowboys who are largely expendable is incredibly like the imperial guard. Is there an issue, but there's no point wasting space marine lives on it? Just throw millions of regular humans at the issue and something will happen.

(there's also stuff to get into about the old ones, war in the heaven, c tan etc being very similar to the starcraft lore that takes place earlier in that timeline)

The end result is two of Blizzard's first three big ip's are heavily influenced (aka copied) from Games Workshop. But Warhammer/W40k are just richer better stories than WC and definitely SC.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1152 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-26 15:47:01
April 26 2023 15:46 GMT
#66
On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2023 11:05 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On April 24 2023 00:42 zatic wrote:
I mean Protoss live for hundreds of years, so "countless" of generations can easily be 100 000 years and more. From the Khala to present day is pretty recent, yes, so ~2500 years seems about right. But before that the Protoss history can easily stretch for longer than humanity existed.


Sure, it can, but why should it?

On April 24 2023 09:39 Mizenhauer wrote:
Bootleg Tyranids, Ripped Off Space Elves (Eldar, Aeldari, take your pick), Imperial Guard on Drugs.


I've heard people saying that StarCraft ripped of Warhammer 40k a lot, but I've never really gotten a bead on how? Other than both having Starship Troopers and Alien influences, I've found most of the commonalities pretty superficial? Though to be honest, I don't know that much about 40k, I only played a bit of Warhammer Original Flavour back in High School, and some Warhammer Total War.

On April 24 2023 10:26 Malongo wrote:
Well I'm surprised the amount of knowledge about the Starcraft Universe.


I was a lore nerd for a decade before I saw my first professional game. I used to do this ranting on SCLegacy, but that site's been down for a while, so I'm taking this opportunity instead :D.


Blizz has an awkward history with games workshop. The art style of Warcraft was heavily influenced by GW (you weren't seeing buff greenskinned orcs anywhere else at the time) and they actually wanted to obtain a license for Warhammer in order to give warcraft more commercial appeal.

As for StarCraft II, the races are pretty blatant copies of Warhammer 40k factions. The Zerg are insectoid aliens rules by a hive mind that biologically adapt in the same manner Tyranids do and often biological weapons/claws just like them.

Protoss are just space elves. The Eldar in W40k were a long lived very powerful, prideful and advanced race that incited an apocalypses of their own making. Since then they are less plentiful and less in number and often butt heads with the younger species.

The depiction of Terrans as sort of down on their luck space cowboys who are largely expendable is incredibly like the imperial guard. Is there an issue, but there's no point wasting space marine lives on it? Just throw millions of regular humans at the issue and something will happen.

(there's also stuff to get into about the old ones, war in the heaven, c tan etc being very similar to the starcraft lore that takes place earlier in that timeline)

The end result is two of Blizzard's first three big ip's are heavily influenced (aka copied) from Games Workshop. But Warhammer/W40k are just richer better stories than WC and definitely SC.


I give you "influenced", but "copied"? Come on. Yes, Warcraft was supposed to be a Warhammer game, they didn't get the license so instead they made their own thing - and I'm pretty sure whoever said "no" to that license deal is still getting tortured in the chambers of GW because holy shit did that dude fuck up. Warcraft and all that came afterwards always dwarved WH Fantasy by a mile. WC2 waws already heavily leaving the Warhammer train, while WC3 completly lost it and fully developed into their own thing, including a completly different way on how the world is build. And don't get me started on WoW.

As for Starcraft: Sure, there are influences from WH40K (which I adore btw), but again...copied? Yes, all three races have somewhat counterparts in the 40K-universe, but they mostly operate completly different and developed even further away from it with SC2. There were definetly other influences as well, the most obvious one of course being the Alien-franchise.

And finally...maybe Warhammer (40K) has a better lore, but better story? Not really. Especially since they still haven't managed to succesfully bring those stories into multimedia. Don't get me wrong, Gaunts Ghosts for example is one of the best book series I have ever read...but that's it, it is limited to books. Warcraft and Starcraft however brought those stories to life through videogames (and of course the fantastic cinematics), a feat GW will probably never achieve.

Warhammer is all about the freedom, making your own stories, maybe tying them into a greater lore. But Starcraft/Warcraft is about telling epic stories that are based in a lore that had to be figured out over the decades.
At that point it is about preference, but I for one would take the WC3 Arthas campaigns alone over anything ever presented story-wise in gaming.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
April 26 2023 17:48 GMT
#67
On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2023 11:05 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On April 24 2023 00:42 zatic wrote:
I mean Protoss live for hundreds of years, so "countless" of generations can easily be 100 000 years and more. From the Khala to present day is pretty recent, yes, so ~2500 years seems about right. But before that the Protoss history can easily stretch for longer than humanity existed.


Sure, it can, but why should it?

On April 24 2023 09:39 Mizenhauer wrote:
Bootleg Tyranids, Ripped Off Space Elves (Eldar, Aeldari, take your pick), Imperial Guard on Drugs.


I've heard people saying that StarCraft ripped of Warhammer 40k a lot, but I've never really gotten a bead on how? Other than both having Starship Troopers and Alien influences, I've found most of the commonalities pretty superficial? Though to be honest, I don't know that much about 40k, I only played a bit of Warhammer Original Flavour back in High School, and some Warhammer Total War.

On April 24 2023 10:26 Malongo wrote:
Well I'm surprised the amount of knowledge about the Starcraft Universe.


I was a lore nerd for a decade before I saw my first professional game. I used to do this ranting on SCLegacy, but that site's been down for a while, so I'm taking this opportunity instead :D.


Blizz has an awkward history with games workshop. The art style of Warcraft was heavily influenced by GW (you weren't seeing buff greenskinned orcs anywhere else at the time) and they actually wanted to obtain a license for Warhammer in order to give warcraft more commercial appeal.


This I know, but while Warhammer 40k is an obvious extrapolation of original Warhammer, StarCraft is not a space version of WarCraft. The Warhammer influences on WarCraft do not translate.

On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:As for StarCraft II, the races are pretty blatant copies of Warhammer 40k factions. The Zerg are insectoid aliens rules by a hive mind that biologically adapt in the same manner Tyranids do and often biological weapons/claws just like them.


That's just the bugs from Starship Troopers. StarCraft's influence from Starship Troopers (and Alien) actually is extremely blatant, the similarities to Tyranids are likely coincidence from Games Workshop also lifting from Starship Troopers (and Alien).

I mean come on, "Games Workshop Zerg" looked like this in 1998. Zerg definitely got their looks from Starship Troopers, not Games Workshop, and since they also share the same characterisation, it's much more reasonable to assume that Starship Troopers influenced that as well.

On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:Protoss are just space elves. The Eldar in W40k were a long lived very powerful, prideful and advanced race that incited an apocalypses of their own making. Since then they are less plentiful and less in number and often butt heads with the younger species.


Protoss are not in any way space elves. Tolkien-derived elves, as appear in Warhammer, are an ancient and fading race. It's arguable how old Protoss are, as we've been doing in this thread, I place their very species as younger than human written word, and the current Khalai culture as about as old as France. And they're not a faded species. If they're currently on a downturn following the Zerg invasion of Aiur, there is no indication that this is an intrinsic or irreversible direction, and they were established in original StarCraft as the most powerful species in existence, at the height of their power, to the point that even the Overmind despaired of finding a way to overcome them. Even in Legacy of the Void, Amon is using the Golden Armada to basically wipe out all life in the Sector.

To the extent of my understanding of 40k lore, the faction that most resembles the Protoss is actually the Imperium of Man, the most recently dominant power in the galaxy, now crumbling due to a combination of alien invasion and internal strife, melding politics and religion to create a stagnant state of politics where disagreement with the state authority is hounded down as heresy, protected by a bio-engineered caste of super-warriors who still think using melee weapons is a good idea and so grotesquely overpowered that they can actually pull it off.

On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:The depiction of Terrans as sort of down on their luck space cowboys who are largely expendable is incredibly like the imperial guard. Is there an issue, but there's no point wasting space marine lives on it? Just throw millions of regular humans at the issue and something will happen.


That's an exceptionally flimsy description. Expendable human soldiers is not an idea nearly unique enough to rip-off, even in space. I'm also surprised to see them described as cowboys, I thought they were more comparable to WW2 armies in space. But also, trying to use the Imperial Guard without contextualising them within the larger frame of Warhammer 40k humanity is misleading.

Terran stories focus on rebels, outlaws and frontiersmen, and appeals to libertarian fantasies of self-made men on the fringes of society fighting to protect their freedom from the government. Warhammer 40k is set firmly within the central conceit of an impossibly ancient, unchanging, uncaring fascist empire. The strongest Terran government in the Koprulu Sector has been overthrown and replaced four times in the fiveish years since the StarCraft story started.

On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:The end result is two of Blizzard's first three big ip's are heavily influenced (aka copied) from Games Workshop. But Warhammer/W40k are just richer better stories than WC and definitely SC.


It might be that Warhammer stories are better, I haven't read any, my love for StarCraft lore derives massively from the fact that I was very young when I first played it, and all its concepts were very novel to me. I had never seen Starship Troopers, or Alien, or even Star Trek so it was a lot of new, exciting discoveries.

That said. there's still a lot to be valued in the stories and lore of StarCraft, especially in how they work to mix the story and gameplay. Terran I, Rebel Yell, is by far the best use of story in an RTS campaign I have ever seen.

As for Warhammer, one thing that annoys me in the fantasy game is that Games Workshop seem to be waffling on whether they want to play it as straight-faced fantasy or satire, and I get the same feeling from 40k, which has always kept me from approaching it. The only races I enjoy in original Warhammer are the ones I can describe with the opening "These are the dumbest shit you've ever seen because...", and that currently only applies to Empire, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, Greenskins and Skaven.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
Athenau
Profile Joined March 2015
569 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-26 23:50:53
April 26 2023 23:49 GMT
#68
40k probably started as anti-fascist satire, but by now it's evolved into some mix of "cautionary tale" (are we the baddies?) and "conventional" (in the broad sense, but once you actually get into the details, it's just bonkers in the best way possible) space opera.

Really, 40k is what you get if you apply the rule of cool to as much shit as possible, turn everything up to 11, and then try your best to make the resulting mess work as a semi-coherent body of lore. It's awesome.

I agree that apart from bits of art direction (pauldrons!) there's not much commonality between 40k and Starcraft.
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
April 27 2023 05:25 GMT
#69
On April 27 2023 02:48 Fanatic-Templar wrote:

That said. there's still a lot to be valued in the stories and lore of StarCraft, especially in how they work to mix the story and gameplay. Terran I, Rebel Yell, is by far the best use of story in an RTS campaign I have ever seen.


Agreed, the original StarCraft campaigns and the backstory are exemplary writing in gaming history. Just absolutely fantastic storytelling.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
breaker1328
Profile Joined March 2016
Canada295 Posts
May 06 2023 23:50 GMT
#70
I default to alphabetical order.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
May 10 2023 11:45 GMT
#71
I have a real question for you,

Why only hydralisks are so much more expensive in starcraft 2 than in BW ?
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