EPTWhat's the correct order of naming the three races of StarCraft?
What's the correct order of naming the three races of Star…
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TL.net Bot
TL.net132 Posts
What's the correct order of naming the three races of StarCraft? | ||
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bela.mervado
Hungary399 Posts
1. Dinos 2. Humans 3. UFOs | ||
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Kenny808mk
France11 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
2. Zerg 3. Bullshit | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
Terran Episode I Rebel Yell, Zerg Episode II Overmind, Protoss Episode III The Stand. | ||
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Creager
Germany1909 Posts
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On April 18 2023 02:19 Nakajin wrote: 1. Terran 2. Zerg 3. Bullshit this is correct | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
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Poopi
France12903 Posts
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On April 18 2023 06:11 BluemoonSC wrote: putting the correct response as the top choice sorta ruins the integrity of those poll, don't you think? A more rigorous poll would randomize the order. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20316 Posts
On April 18 2023 06:11 BluemoonSC wrote: putting the correct response as the top choice sorta ruins the integrity of those poll, don't you think? They voted for the wrong one anyway | ||
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tigera6
3419 Posts
Carrier Queen | ||
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esReveR
United States567 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33442 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4211 Posts
clearly | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1267 Posts
On April 18 2023 02:19 Nakajin wrote: 1. Terran 2. Zerg 3. Bullshit Which race gets the most unsolicited abuse? 1. Protoss 2. Protoss 3. Protoss  | ||
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RogerChillingworth
3030 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20316 Posts
On April 18 2023 19:21 Schelim wrote: to me it's always been Terran - Zerg - Protoss and it irritates me that Liquipedia does it alphabetically Alphabetically is the gramatically correct way in English (: | ||
zatic
Zurich15349 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
Terran (stuck in the middle of two warring aliens) Zerg (leave the best for last) Very unbiased analysis. Also think it just sounds better saying it out loud this way. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1214 Posts
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On April 18 2023 19:38 zatic wrote: Lore-wise it would be Protoss Zerg Terran by order of creation / appearance. you just HAD to bring lore into it didn't you | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9222 Posts
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Galacsia
Chile162 Posts
The other options make no sense. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On April 19 2023 04:07 Sent. wrote: Terran Protoss Zerg or Protoss Terran Zerg. Zerg has to be last. The match ups in my head are always TvZ, PvZ and... I think it's TvP but PvT sounds just as good. ZvP or ZvT sounds wrong. I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44722 Posts
On April 19 2023 14:04 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o Agreed. | ||
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Vision_
862 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On April 19 2023 22:04 Vision_ wrote: What s the purpose of this thread ? To determine the correct order of naming the three races of Starcraft. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19271 Posts
On April 19 2023 19:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The original campaign order was T -> Z -> P, so I've always put it in this order. Agreed. But what about the box art!?! | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
T P Z sounds very right, but P T Z doesn't sound wrong either. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44722 Posts
The box art is phenomenal in any order. | ||
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KameZerg
Sweden1767 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9222 Posts
On April 19 2023 14:04 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: I (Zerg) played a ZvT. I (Terran) played a TvZ. I thought this was how the order of the letters in the MUs normally went? O.o I meant an abstract match where it doesn't matter who the Zerg or Terran is. If I'm watching Serral vs Maru, it's a TvZ in my head even though I mostly play Zerg recently. Of course that doesn't mean I'd say something like "Serral's TvZ is good". It can be "his ZvT", but if someone asked me to name the match up between Serral and Maru, I'd say it's a TvZ. | ||
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catplanetcatplanet
3830 Posts
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moonsjde
48 Posts
terran is the "original" race that starts the story and is based on real life and zerg sounds best at the end because it's only one syllable so protoss goes in the middle by elimination | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
TvZ ZvP PvT in that order for me. | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
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Husyelt
United States836 Posts
Zerg, Terran, Protoss falls off the tongue way better than any of the other choices. Also, Terran first is a horrible choice for the simple fact that we are implicitly biased towards "Terran" as humans. Gross results | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7808 Posts
That said, Terran Zerg Protoss was how the original game introduced the campaigns. I am inclined to agree this is "correct" | ||
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Vision_
862 Posts
On April 19 2023 22:27 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: To determine the correct order of naming the three races of Starcraft. People have time to loss... | ||
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Kitai
United States876 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
*lose Besides, if this isn't a priority, I can't imagine what is. You wouldn't want to get the order wrong would you? | ||
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Fighter
Korea (South)1531 Posts
The game always felt most clearly about the Terran confrontation with the Zerg. And then the Protoss felt like a third thing, like a secondary variable that Terran were never quite sure how to deal with. They always seemed secondary to dealing with the Zerg menace. Heck, even in pro Brood War, Protoss was always the marginal race. The history of Brood War is largely a Terran/Zerg rivalry with Protoss popping in less often. I know it's specious and illogical -- but that's just how I feel about it. | ||
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Kenny808mk
France11 Posts
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Slydie
1923 Posts
On April 18 2023 02:45 outscar wrote: ?? TZP. Terran Episode I Rebel Yell, Zerg Episode II Overmind, Protoss Episode III The Stand. This is correct, the order in the original campaign, and the SC2 expansions too. | ||
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aringadingding
477 Posts
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Vision_
862 Posts
On April 21 2023 02:49 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: *lose Besides, if this isn't a priority, I can't imagine what is. You wouldn't want to get the order wrong would you? I can t imagine Tolkien creating his world and say : First there s hobbit. Then the second day comes elves, the third day comes human and dwarves... I suppose that a masterpiece can t be created from nothing in one shot, there s multiple drafts and i m convinced there s no interest to define the order of ideas appearing in the mind of this kind of genius, ideas are the essence of creation so arguing which one comes the first look stupid to me. | ||
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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moonsjde
48 Posts
On April 21 2023 23:53 aringadingding wrote: why is this interesting? How did this question even pop up? I am actually curious both to why it was written down in the first place and also that people feel enough about this to comment. Interesting why do you find it interesting that people find it interesting | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
edit: stupid mistake | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On April 18 2023 14:22 Waxangel wrote: I understand TZP #1 since it's the campaign order but I'm pretty amused by how TPZ is such a strong #2 I'm also confused by TPZ. I thought it would be campaign order or alphabetical order. On April 18 2023 19:38 zatic wrote: Lore-wise it would be Protoss Zerg Terran by order of creation / appearance. I don't know that this is true at all. I don't know that there are any dates to approximate the beginnings of the Protoss race, but the exile of the Dark Templar happened around 1000 years before Brood War, or around 1500 C.E. And with their evolution having been sped up by the Xel'Naga, it seems very likely that humanity predates the Protoss by a huge margin. Unless you're using "Terran" to refer specifically to Koprulu Sector humans. On April 21 2023 10:54 Fighter wrote: No one has given the following reasoning yet for T-Z-P: The game always felt most clearly about the Terran confrontation with the Zerg. And then the Protoss felt like a third thing, like a secondary variable that Terran were never quite sure how to deal with. They always seemed secondary to dealing with the Zerg menace. Heck, even in pro Brood War, Protoss was always the marginal race. The history of Brood War is largely a Terran/Zerg rivalry with Protoss popping in less often. I know it's specious and illogical -- but that's just how I feel about it. This has been my biggest complaint with the games' story by far. Original StarCraft was Protoss vs. Zerg with Terrans caught in the middle, and since then Blizzard don't seem to have had any idea what to do with Protoss. In Brood War Fenix and his forces are basically included as the in-game forces for the Terran character of Raynor, who has the motivations. And in StarCraft 2 they created the Tal'darim just so they could have Protoss units in the game without having to figure out a way to have Protoss actually involved in the story. And I don't even want to talk about Legacy of the Void. On April 23 2023 02:20 Mutaller wrote: I mentioned earlier that TPZ sounds the best. I didn't even realize it was alphabetical on top of that. Uh... | ||
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zatic
Zurich15349 Posts
On April 23 2023 03:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote: I don't know that this is true at all. I don't know that there are any dates to approximate the beginnings of the Protoss race, but the exile of the Dark Templar happened around 1000 years before Brood War, or around 1500 C.E. And with their evolution having been sped up by the Xel'Naga, it seems very likely that humanity predates the Protoss by a huge margin. Unless you're using "Terran" to refer specifically to Koprulu Sector humans. There is no exact timeline, but Protoss records speak of the Xel Naga ruling their worlds "10s of millions of years ago". If we take the exit of the Xel Naga from Aiur as the end of that period, which makes sense from Protoss records, then it's been millions of years from the Protoss creation. Even the Protoss evolutionary timeline has them living for "hundreds of generations" before the Xel Naga speed their evolution for another 1000 years for the Protoss to reach sentience. After "a few thousand years" the Protoss civil war begins and rages for "countless of generations" and "countless centuries". When the Khala is formed, it is the first time in "thousands of years" that the Protoss regain their primal link. It takes another "few centuries" before the Protoss settle worlds other than Aiur and watch the arrival of the Terrans. In both timelines I see the Protoss coming before humanity. Now the Zerg has no dated timeline, and it's possible that the Xel/Naga took their time before continuing their experiment on Zerus after Aiur. Maybe Zerg were created after humanity evolved on Earth. By the Protoss records ("millions of years") that seems unlikely. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On April 23 2023 15:14 zatic wrote: There is no exact timeline, but Protoss records speak of the Xel Naga ruling their worlds "10s of millions of years ago". If we take the exit of the Xel Naga from Aiur as the end of that period, which makes sense from Protoss records, then it's been millions of years from the Protoss creation. Even the Protoss evolutionary timeline has them living for "hundreds of generations" before the Xel Naga speed their evolution for another 1000 years for the Protoss to reach sentience. After "a few thousand years" the Protoss civil war begins and rages for "countless of generations" and "countless centuries". When the Khala is formed, it is the first time in "thousands of years" that the Protoss regain their primal link. It takes another "few centuries" before the Protoss settle worlds other than Aiur and watch the arrival of the Terrans. In both timelines I see the Protoss coming before humanity. I see what you mean. I was going backwards from ~2500 C.E. StarCraft present, ~1500 C.E. the exile of the Dark Templar, at a time when Raszagal would still be able to remember. It's hard to imagine the Conclave would allow them to exist for long after the unification of Aiur, since it's the central sin of their ideology, so I assume only a few centuries between the exile and the creation of the Khala, then centuries, generations or millennia (conflicting sources) since the departure of the Xel'Naga. Even assuming 1000 years between the Khala and the Dark Templar exile, and 2000 years for the Aeon of Strife, both of which I find excessively generous, that still only puts us at ~1500 B.C.E. Add then whatever time the Xel'Naga spend on Aiur with the Protoss, which feels rather short from the description but with such long-lived species could be deceptive. I always assumed it was decades, a century or two at most, but it could be longer. But even giving this another 1000 years of Xel'Naga-Protoss cohabitation, we still get only ~2500 B.C.E. We're still well within the Bronze Age at the point where the Xel'Naga decide that the Protoss have evolved into their modern forms. I was assuming that pre-Xel'Naga contact Protoss would be the equivalent of earlier hominids and post-contact would be homo sapiens, which are thought to have evolved around 300 000 years ago, compared to Xel'Naga-Protoss contact I estimate at only a few thousand years ago, less than 10 000 by any measure I can imagine. Even adding the hundreds of generations and other thousand years the Xel'Naga observed them, we're nowhere close to the hundreds of thousands of years to reach the birth of homo sapiens. The only date that eclipses that is the Xel'Naga's own history, said to date back tens of millions of years ago. Of course, all of this is massively speculative, from the timeframes to where we choose to identify the origins of the Protoss, to even how exact the Protoss dates are for anything preceding the creation of the Khala, as much of their knowledge and history was lost to the Aeon of Strife. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15349 Posts
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datastuff
31 Posts
The timeline isn't very coherent tbh | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1891 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On April 24 2023 00:42 zatic wrote: I mean Protoss live for hundreds of years, so "countless" of generations can easily be 100 000 years and more. From the Khala to present day is pretty recent, yes, so ~2500 years seems about right. But before that the Protoss history can easily stretch for longer than humanity existed. Sure, it can, but why should it? On April 24 2023 09:39 Mizenhauer wrote: Bootleg Tyranids, Ripped Off Space Elves (Eldar, Aeldari, take your pick), Imperial Guard on Drugs. I've heard people saying that StarCraft ripped of Warhammer 40k a lot, but I've never really gotten a bead on how? Other than both having Starship Troopers and Alien influences, I've found most of the commonalities pretty superficial? Though to be honest, I don't know that much about 40k, I only played a bit of Warhammer Original Flavour back in High School, and some Warhammer Total War. On April 24 2023 10:26 Malongo wrote: Well I'm surprised the amount of knowledge about the Starcraft Universe. I was a lore nerd for a decade before I saw my first professional game. I used to do this ranting on SCLegacy, but that site's been down for a while, so I'm taking this opportunity instead :D. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1891 Posts
On April 26 2023 11:05 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Sure, it can, but why should it? I've heard people saying that StarCraft ripped of Warhammer 40k a lot, but I've never really gotten a bead on how? Other than both having Starship Troopers and Alien influences, I've found most of the commonalities pretty superficial? Though to be honest, I don't know that much about 40k, I only played a bit of Warhammer Original Flavour back in High School, and some Warhammer Total War. I was a lore nerd for a decade before I saw my first professional game. I used to do this ranting on SCLegacy, but that site's been down for a while, so I'm taking this opportunity instead :D. Blizz has an awkward history with games workshop. The art style of Warcraft was heavily influenced by GW (you weren't seeing buff greenskinned orcs anywhere else at the time) and they actually wanted to obtain a license for Warhammer in order to give warcraft more commercial appeal. As for StarCraft II, the races are pretty blatant copies of Warhammer 40k factions. The Zerg are insectoid aliens rules by a hive mind that biologically adapt in the same manner Tyranids do and often biological weapons/claws just like them. Protoss are just space elves. The Eldar in W40k were a long lived very powerful, prideful and advanced race that incited an apocalypses of their own making. Since then they are less plentiful and less in number and often butt heads with the younger species. The depiction of Terrans as sort of down on their luck space cowboys who are largely expendable is incredibly like the imperial guard. Is there an issue, but there's no point wasting space marine lives on it? Just throw millions of regular humans at the issue and something will happen. (there's also stuff to get into about the old ones, war in the heaven, c tan etc being very similar to the starcraft lore that takes place earlier in that timeline) The end result is two of Blizzard's first three big ip's are heavily influenced (aka copied) from Games Workshop. But Warhammer/W40k are just richer better stories than WC and definitely SC. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1214 Posts
On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote: Blizz has an awkward history with games workshop. The art style of Warcraft was heavily influenced by GW (you weren't seeing buff greenskinned orcs anywhere else at the time) and they actually wanted to obtain a license for Warhammer in order to give warcraft more commercial appeal. As for StarCraft II, the races are pretty blatant copies of Warhammer 40k factions. The Zerg are insectoid aliens rules by a hive mind that biologically adapt in the same manner Tyranids do and often biological weapons/claws just like them. Protoss are just space elves. The Eldar in W40k were a long lived very powerful, prideful and advanced race that incited an apocalypses of their own making. Since then they are less plentiful and less in number and often butt heads with the younger species. The depiction of Terrans as sort of down on their luck space cowboys who are largely expendable is incredibly like the imperial guard. Is there an issue, but there's no point wasting space marine lives on it? Just throw millions of regular humans at the issue and something will happen. (there's also stuff to get into about the old ones, war in the heaven, c tan etc being very similar to the starcraft lore that takes place earlier in that timeline) The end result is two of Blizzard's first three big ip's are heavily influenced (aka copied) from Games Workshop. But Warhammer/W40k are just richer better stories than WC and definitely SC. I give you "influenced", but "copied"? Come on. Yes, Warcraft was supposed to be a Warhammer game, they didn't get the license so instead they made their own thing - and I'm pretty sure whoever said "no" to that license deal is still getting tortured in the chambers of GW because holy shit did that dude fuck up. Warcraft and all that came afterwards always dwarved WH Fantasy by a mile. WC2 waws already heavily leaving the Warhammer train, while WC3 completly lost it and fully developed into their own thing, including a completly different way on how the world is build. And don't get me started on WoW. As for Starcraft: Sure, there are influences from WH40K (which I adore btw), but again...copied? Yes, all three races have somewhat counterparts in the 40K-universe, but they mostly operate completly different and developed even further away from it with SC2. There were definetly other influences as well, the most obvious one of course being the Alien-franchise. And finally...maybe Warhammer (40K) has a better lore, but better story? Not really. Especially since they still haven't managed to succesfully bring those stories into multimedia. Don't get me wrong, Gaunts Ghosts for example is one of the best book series I have ever read...but that's it, it is limited to books. Warcraft and Starcraft however brought those stories to life through videogames (and of course the fantastic cinematics), a feat GW will probably never achieve. Warhammer is all about the freedom, making your own stories, maybe tying them into a greater lore. But Starcraft/Warcraft is about telling epic stories that are based in a lore that had to be figured out over the decades. At that point it is about preference, but I for one would take the WC3 Arthas campaigns alone over anything ever presented story-wise in gaming. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote: Blizz has an awkward history with games workshop. The art style of Warcraft was heavily influenced by GW (you weren't seeing buff greenskinned orcs anywhere else at the time) and they actually wanted to obtain a license for Warhammer in order to give warcraft more commercial appeal. This I know, but while Warhammer 40k is an obvious extrapolation of original Warhammer, StarCraft is not a space version of WarCraft. The Warhammer influences on WarCraft do not translate. On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:As for StarCraft II, the races are pretty blatant copies of Warhammer 40k factions. The Zerg are insectoid aliens rules by a hive mind that biologically adapt in the same manner Tyranids do and often biological weapons/claws just like them. That's just the bugs from Starship Troopers. StarCraft's influence from Starship Troopers (and Alien) actually is extremely blatant, the similarities to Tyranids are likely coincidence from Games Workshop also lifting from Starship Troopers (and Alien). I mean come on, "Games Workshop Zerg" looked like this in 1998. Zerg definitely got their looks from Starship Troopers, not Games Workshop, and since they also share the same characterisation, it's much more reasonable to assume that Starship Troopers influenced that as well. On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:Protoss are just space elves. The Eldar in W40k were a long lived very powerful, prideful and advanced race that incited an apocalypses of their own making. Since then they are less plentiful and less in number and often butt heads with the younger species. Protoss are not in any way space elves. Tolkien-derived elves, as appear in Warhammer, are an ancient and fading race. It's arguable how old Protoss are, as we've been doing in this thread, I place their very species as younger than human written word, and the current Khalai culture as about as old as France. And they're not a faded species. If they're currently on a downturn following the Zerg invasion of Aiur, there is no indication that this is an intrinsic or irreversible direction, and they were established in original StarCraft as the most powerful species in existence, at the height of their power, to the point that even the Overmind despaired of finding a way to overcome them. Even in Legacy of the Void, Amon is using the Golden Armada to basically wipe out all life in the Sector. To the extent of my understanding of 40k lore, the faction that most resembles the Protoss is actually the Imperium of Man, the most recently dominant power in the galaxy, now crumbling due to a combination of alien invasion and internal strife, melding politics and religion to create a stagnant state of politics where disagreement with the state authority is hounded down as heresy, protected by a bio-engineered caste of super-warriors who still think using melee weapons is a good idea and so grotesquely overpowered that they can actually pull it off. On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:The depiction of Terrans as sort of down on their luck space cowboys who are largely expendable is incredibly like the imperial guard. Is there an issue, but there's no point wasting space marine lives on it? Just throw millions of regular humans at the issue and something will happen. That's an exceptionally flimsy description. Expendable human soldiers is not an idea nearly unique enough to rip-off, even in space. I'm also surprised to see them described as cowboys, I thought they were more comparable to WW2 armies in space. But also, trying to use the Imperial Guard without contextualising them within the larger frame of Warhammer 40k humanity is misleading. Terran stories focus on rebels, outlaws and frontiersmen, and appeals to libertarian fantasies of self-made men on the fringes of society fighting to protect their freedom from the government. Warhammer 40k is set firmly within the central conceit of an impossibly ancient, unchanging, uncaring fascist empire. The strongest Terran government in the Koprulu Sector has been overthrown and replaced four times in the fiveish years since the StarCraft story started. On April 27 2023 00:08 Mizenhauer wrote:The end result is two of Blizzard's first three big ip's are heavily influenced (aka copied) from Games Workshop. But Warhammer/W40k are just richer better stories than WC and definitely SC. It might be that Warhammer stories are better, I haven't read any, my love for StarCraft lore derives massively from the fact that I was very young when I first played it, and all its concepts were very novel to me. I had never seen Starship Troopers, or Alien, or even Star Trek so it was a lot of new, exciting discoveries. That said. there's still a lot to be valued in the stories and lore of StarCraft, especially in how they work to mix the story and gameplay. Terran I, Rebel Yell, is by far the best use of story in an RTS campaign I have ever seen. As for Warhammer, one thing that annoys me in the fantasy game is that Games Workshop seem to be waffling on whether they want to play it as straight-faced fantasy or satire, and I get the same feeling from 40k, which has always kept me from approaching it. The only races I enjoy in original Warhammer are the ones I can describe with the opening "These are the dumbest shit you've ever seen because...", and that currently only applies to Empire, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, Greenskins and Skaven. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
Really, 40k is what you get if you apply the rule of cool to as much shit as possible, turn everything up to 11, and then try your best to make the resulting mess work as a semi-coherent body of lore. It's awesome. I agree that apart from bits of art direction (pauldrons!) there's not much commonality between 40k and Starcraft. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15349 Posts
On April 27 2023 02:48 Fanatic-Templar wrote: That said. there's still a lot to be valued in the stories and lore of StarCraft, especially in how they work to mix the story and gameplay. Terran I, Rebel Yell, is by far the best use of story in an RTS campaign I have ever seen. Agreed, the original StarCraft campaigns and the backstory are exemplary writing in gaming history. Just absolutely fantastic storytelling. | ||
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breaker1328
Canada296 Posts
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Vision_
862 Posts
Why only hydralisks are so much more expensive in starcraft 2 than in BW ? | ||
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