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On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote:
Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments.
On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
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I tuned back into watching GSL in 2022 after a long time away from watching any esports. It's sad SC2's fade into the past is more clearly upon us, but it's amazing how long it's gone. Majorly thankful to all the players, casters, producers, organizers, etc who have worked to make SC2 what it was and is.
I imagine rewatching old SC2 VODS in 10 years will be a fun time. Lots of great content is archived and available which is cool.
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On February 27 2023 02:12 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote:
Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out. Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments. On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard.
Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
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On February 27 2023 05:59 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2023 02:12 NoobSkills wrote:On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote:
Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out. Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments. On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss. Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard. Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
Yeah, Blizzard killed the game 10+ years ago and that is why GSL was such a joke since then...what?
The reason Esports is where it is today is because of publisher-assisted Esports. Having consistent and regulated tournaments instead of the wild-west we had before, where getting your prizemoney in a timespan of two years still was considered good, since it meant you eventually would get it.
SC2 was just never as popular in Korea as BW was. BW was national sport, SC2 was just a game that soon got outshined by LoL. SC2 still did exceptionally well over the years in Korea, if you compare it for example with WC3. Yes, WC3 was also dominated heavily by koreans, but because of the MBC map-scandal all koreans where employed by western teams, since that was were the money was. The korean scene itself was dead before it even started.
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On February 27 2023 08:40 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2023 05:59 JJH777 wrote:On February 27 2023 02:12 NoobSkills wrote:On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote:
Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out. Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments. On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss. Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard. Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts. Yeah, Blizzard killed the game 10+ years ago and that is why GSL was such a joke since then...what? The reason Esports is where it is today is because of publisher-assisted Esports. Having consistent and regulated tournaments instead of the wild-west we had before, where getting your prizemoney in a timespan of two years still was considered good, since it meant you eventually would get it. SC2 was just never as popular in Korea as BW was. BW was national sport, SC2 was just a game that soon got outshined by LoL. SC2 still did exceptionally well over the years in Korea, if you compare it for example with WC3. Yes, WC3 was also dominated heavily by koreans, but because of the MBC map-scandal all koreans where employed by western teams, since that was were the money was. The korean scene itself was dead before it even started.
Blizzard killed the ability for StarCraft or really any eSport to support itself without the need for publisher money. Korea had a completely self sustaining system that 100s if not 1000s of people were making a career out of. A system that was watched by millions and brought in significant ad revenue. It did not need Blizzard at all.
Instead of taking an approach of saying that's amazing that our game is being used that way, thanks for the millions of extra sales that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise, how can we partner together to recreate this success with SC2? They threw a fit and said this is copyright infringement we want completely control over all broadcasts of our games or else the industry can't exist. Someone who loved StarCraft would have taken the first approach and SC2 would have likely done much better in Korea and BW would still be going even stronger than it already is.
Considering the timeframe it's likely this was done by some Activision exec who knew nothing about SC and just saw a way to squeeze some money out of a place there wasn't much even if that meant killing it.
You say that SC2's popularity in Korea is why it's dying. I'm saying that Blizzards decisions about SC2 eSports and desire for complete control are exactly why it never took off in Korea. This desire was also the reason things like no lan happened which massively effected it's ability to gain popularity.
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apparently, Innovation told Crank he won't be participating GSL during their call according to some korean forum posts. I haven't seen footage myself but that's what people who watched are saying.
But apparently Stats said don't listen to what he says since he changes his mind often
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On February 27 2023 10:21 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2023 08:40 Balnazza wrote:On February 27 2023 05:59 JJH777 wrote:On February 27 2023 02:12 NoobSkills wrote:On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote:
Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out. Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments. On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss. Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard. Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts. Yeah, Blizzard killed the game 10+ years ago and that is why GSL was such a joke since then...what? The reason Esports is where it is today is because of publisher-assisted Esports. Having consistent and regulated tournaments instead of the wild-west we had before, where getting your prizemoney in a timespan of two years still was considered good, since it meant you eventually would get it. SC2 was just never as popular in Korea as BW was. BW was national sport, SC2 was just a game that soon got outshined by LoL. SC2 still did exceptionally well over the years in Korea, if you compare it for example with WC3. Yes, WC3 was also dominated heavily by koreans, but because of the MBC map-scandal all koreans where employed by western teams, since that was were the money was. The korean scene itself was dead before it even started. Blizzard killed the ability for StarCraft or really any eSport to support itself without the need for publisher money. Korea had a completely self sustaining system that 100s if not 1000s of people were making a career out of. A system that was watched by millions and brought in significant ad revenue. It did not need Blizzard at all. Instead of taking an approach of saying that's amazing that our game is being used that way, thanks for the millions of extra sales that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise, how can we partner together to recreate this success with SC2? They threw a fit and said this is copyright infringement we want completely control over all broadcasts of our games or else the industry can't exist. Someone who loved StarCraft would have taken the first approach and SC2 would have likely done much better in Korea and BW would still be going even stronger than it already is. Considering the timeframe it's likely this was done by some Activision exec who knew nothing about SC and just saw a way to squeeze some money out of a place there wasn't much even if that meant killing it. You say that SC2's popularity in Korea is why it's dying. I'm saying that Blizzards decisions about SC2 eSports and desire for complete control are exactly why it never took off in Korea. This desire was also the reason things like no lan happened which massively effected it's ability to gain popularity.
Kespa wasn't exactly thrilled about SC2 either. They had a well-established system running, switching into another game hugely threatened their entire position. And in the end, people decided what they wanted to see and play, had probably nothing to do with Blizzard. Please also remember that the first WCS came two to three years after release, so there was plenty of things going on before it got streamlined a bit - into a system that supported on a global scale instead of just Korea.
Of course we will never know, but I'm pretty sure that without Blizzards money and streamlining, SC2s global competition would have fallen flat years ago, with korea maybe, just maaaaybeee, having a competition going that "no one" outside of korea really cares about. But we most certainly would not have had a 500K world championship in 2022/23, because there would be no need for a world championship anymore.
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On February 25 2023 15:35 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2023 11:49 NotSoHappy wrote:
I hope you're not buying another Blizzard title anymore. Vote with your money. For a company this big, really, they could support Starcraft 2 for many more years. The changes they did with tourneys years ago started the downfall. This is the end. I can't really see Korean scene supporting itself. Most of the guys there don't stream, have no other revenue beside tournament wins and salary. Less playtime, less viewers, less money. All there is.
This is a semi goodbye post, no longer a player, hardly a watcher anymore. Having less years to 40 than 30 is making werid things to us. They're just like any other developer for me now. I've gone from buying every single one of their games because it was a Blizzard game to now thoroughly vetting each game before I buy it because I can't know for sure if it's going to be any good. Warcraft Reforged was the first thing they've ever released where I cringed and just shook my head at how bad it was, Diablo Immortal was much worse. I've long since quit WoW (quit back in 2015), Hearthstone and Overwatch. Pro SC2 is getting a huge nerf, and that just leaves Diablo which I still enjoy since D3 was a lot of fun, and I am paying close attention to D4. It would have been an instant purchase in years past but now I'm very wary of whether or not I want to give it a chance.
I stopped buying blizz games with d3. D2 was all about Pvp, trading, farming, in that order. D3 is all about farming. Blizz is long gone, people that rule it now aren't the same people that created the main IPs.
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Less than half of the prize Pool of ASL 15? GG no re.
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so first place wins 7,600 dollars really?
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On February 27 2023 05:59 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2023 02:12 NoobSkills wrote:On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote:
Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out. Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments. On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss. Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard. Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
Yep. Yet people keep blaming Life
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If this is the end, I'm grateful for all the good times these tournaments gave us. It's a shock to me to realize how long this has been going on, I had never even considered it was going to end at some point.
I'm sure there will still be some competition in some form or another, but nothing like what we had.
What a ride it's been.
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So many pros will retire. And the ones that don't will probably be the Marus or Heros or Darks who will just dominate everything and make for an extremely boring scene to follow. The game is officially on life support.
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United States340 Posts
Crowdfunding options are being discussed internally. Hopefully a more official statement can be given soon. It is also important for us to try and give something back, GSL merch, something signed by players, etc.
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I would donate a small portion if crowd funding can be an option.
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On March 03 2023 05:45 afreecaTV.Char wrote:
Crowdfunding options are being discussed internally. Hopefully a more official statement can be given soon. It is also important for us to try and give something back, GSL merch, something signed by players, etc.
Thank you! I hope there can be a way for other companies or the community to support.
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EPT
