The GSL will undergo significant contraction in 2023, in terms of both prize money and tournament size.
Three seasons of GSL will be held with a total of ₩34,000,000 Korean Won in prize money per season, for a total of ₩102,000,000 Won paid out in 2023 (approximately $78,000 USD at the time of writing). The prior 2022 GSL featured three seasons of Code S, two Super Tournaments, and $430,000 in total prize money.
The 2023 seasons of GSL will consist of 16 players and be held in combined online/offline format. The round-of-16 and round-of-8 will be played online, while the semifinals and grand finals will be held live.
AfreecaTV said details regarding EPT points will be announced following ESL's announcement of its yearlong schedule (unclear if this refers to ESL's Feb 23 announcement).
While the exact dates have not been determined, AfreecaTV have announced a rough timetable for the three GSL tournaments:
I anticipate a lot of retirement announcements. Most of the players are gone anyways and the prize pool is minuscule. There's no way players can support themselves while having a career in SC2.
On February 24 2023 04:25 swarminfestor wrote: Does it means the Super Tournament will be conducted before season 1 begins?
Horrible but unsurprising. With only semifinals live, 16 players and a pitiful 8k for the winner makes me wonder if its even worth watching a tournament becoming such a shadow of itself. I can already see the massive number of retirements coming.
On February 24 2023 04:28 geokilla wrote: I anticipate a lot of retirement announcements. Most of the players are gone anyways and the prize pool is minuscule. There's no way players can support themselves while having a career in SC2.
On February 24 2023 04:28 geokilla wrote: I anticipate a lot of retirement announcements. Most of the players are gone anyways and the prize pool is minuscule. There's no way players can support themselves while having a career in SC2.
On February 24 2023 04:28 geokilla wrote: I anticipate a lot of retirement announcements. Most of the players are gone anyways and the prize pool is minuscule. There's no way players can support themselves while having a career in SC2.
On February 24 2023 04:25 swarminfestor wrote: Does it means the Super Tournament will be conducted before season 1 begins?
There is no Super Tournament.
It is pretty sad that it has came to this eventually. Also, there was no sign of new blood coming from Korean scene.during the last couple of years.
The death of Proleague along with the region lock really killed any avenues for upcoming talent to make any money playing SC2. The gap was too big between them and the top players, had there been some type of availability to play in Foreignerland I think the KR scene would have been much healthier for a longer period of time.
Region locking was a decent idea but too strict. NA would have been perfect to add in some KR players but the criteria to determine that would have been really tough.
I mean, let's be real here... If AAA eSports orgs are going bust, it shouldn't be a surprise for stuff as small as StarCraft to get chopped.
It's basically impossible to even call GSL the premiere tournament series now. Almost laughable to think of someone going to Korea to participate. It's just a Ro16 too?
It's really sad to see. I guess it's the end of an era.
Additional thought, I suppose we'll see a lot of career transitions, particularly for those coming out of the military. I think a lot of players will begin their military service soon too. I heard rumors somewhere of Innovation going to LoL, as a coach or something. His younger brother is the best AD carry in the world, so I suppose it can't be that hard to transition into something right?
If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
On February 24 2023 04:58 Blargh wrote: I mean, let's be real here... If AAA eSports orgs are going bust, it shouldn't be a surprise for stuff as small as StarCraft to get chopped.
It's basically impossible to even call GSL the premiere tournament series now. Almost laughable to think of someone going to Korea to participate. It's just a Ro16 too?
It's really sad to see. I guess it's the end of an era.
On February 24 2023 05:01 PresenceSc2 wrote: If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
Activision isn't interested in putting together anything just to better their game. They need a direct profit motive and there's none to be had for SC2.
Even if SC2 esports keeps drawing players to the game, where is there money to be made from it? That's their logic. It's just a waste of resources to keep investing in something just because the fans and players love it. That's how modern Activision/Blizzard thinks.
On February 24 2023 05:01 PresenceSc2 wrote: If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
Activision isn't interested in putting together anything just to better their game. They need a direct profit motive and there's none to be had for SC2.
This is just polemics. Do like Wardi and create your own events. That'll be tough though because Wardi does an abolutely spectacular job. A more practical thing would be to just donate $$$ to his events.
Red Alert 3 and C&C 4 came out around the same time as SC2. How is EA's esports support for those titles? How are the Relic//Sega CoH2 live events doing? What is up with AoE esports these days?
It is great to have all these pie-in-the-sky theories about what you expect from a publisher. The reality is... if you are thoroughly dissatisfied then play an RTS that has better esports support.
Over the past 15 years, Activision has done a better job supporting their RTS's than any major publisher.
As a consumer all I can do is pick my best option... ATVI's RTS games are it.
I am thankful to ATVI that we have another year of SC2 esports to watch. During the down time between major events I anticipate watching Wardi's events.
On February 24 2023 04:58 Blargh wrote: Additional thought, I suppose we'll see a lot of career transitions
career transitions out of the "SC2-only" niche have been a smart move for a long long time. many years ago Incontrol made the smart move of rebranding himself as the "Strategy Game" guy. This allowed him to get involved in C&C and other big strategy titles.
On February 24 2023 05:01 PresenceSc2 wrote: If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
Activision isn't interested in putting together anything just to better their game. They need a direct profit motive and there's none to be had for SC2.
This is just polemics. Do like Wardi and create your own events. That'll be tough though because Wardi does an abolutely spectacular job. A more practical thing would be to just donate $$$ to his events.
Red Alert 3 and C&C 4 came out around the same time as SC2. How is EA's esports support for those titles? How are the Relic//Sega CoH2 live events doing? What is up with AoE esports these days?
It is great to have all these pie-in-the-sky theories about what you expect from a publisher. The reality is... if you are thoroughly dissatisfied then play an RTS that has better esports support.
Over the past 15 years, Activision has done a better job supporting their RTS's than any major publisher.
As a consumer all I can do is pick my best option... ATVI's RTS games are it.
I am thankful to ATVI that we have another year of SC2 esports to watch. During the down time between major events I anticipate watching Wardi's events.
Wardii's tournaments work because they are very small in cost and scale compared to the relatively gigantic operations that GSL and ESL are.
If you want a peek at what "sustainable" Starcraft 2 looks like then yea he's a good one to look at.
But without larger funding for the more fun events that draw in the big viewers, smaller scale stuff like Wardii's is all we're going to eventually be left with. And I hate to break this to you, but none of the players that play in Wardii's tournaments see it as a form of sustainable income for them. His tournaments are a nice side addition to have while the big tournaments provide the main course for everyone.
I can guarantee you that this sort of negative impact on the scene WILL roll downhill. If the top events that keep the fans engaged are no longer around or are drastically reduced in scope, the drop in engagement from the community that will result will impact tournaments like Wardii's too eventually.
On February 24 2023 05:01 PresenceSc2 wrote: If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
Activision isn't interested in putting together anything just to better their game. They need a direct profit motive and there's none to be had for SC2.
This is just polemics. Do like Wardi and create your own events. That'll be tough though because Wardi does an abolutely spectacular job. A more practical thing would be to just donate $$$ to his events.
Red Alert 3 and C&C 4 came out around the same time as SC2. How is EA's esports support for those titles? How are the Relic//Sega CoH2 live events doing? What is up with AoE esports these days?
It is great to have all these pie-in-the-sky theories about what you expect from a publisher. The reality is... if you are thoroughly dissatisfied then play an RTS that has better esports support.
Over the past 15 years, Activision has done a better job supporting their RTS's than any major publisher.
As a consumer all I can do is pick my best option... ATVI's RTS games are it.
I am thankful to ATVI that we have another year of SC2 esports to watch. During the down time between major events I anticipate watching Wardi's events.
Wardii's tournaments work because they are very small in cost and scale compared to the relatively gigantic operations that GSL and ESL are.
If you want a peek at what "sustainable" Starcraft 2 looks like then yea he's a good one to look at.
But without larger funding for the more fun events that draw in the big viewers, smaller scale stuff like Wardii's is all we're going to eventually be left with. And I hate to break this to you, but none of the players that play in Wardii's tournaments see it as a form of sustainable income for them. His tournaments are a nice side addition to have while the big tournaments provide the main course for everyone.
I can guarantee you that this sort of negative impact on the scene WILL roll downhill. If the top events that keep the fans engaged are no longer around or are drastically reduced in scope, the drop in engagement from the community that will result will impact tournaments like Wardii's too eventually.
you make some good points.
No need to hit the panic button. However , if you are deeply concerned I suggest donating the equivalent of an SC2 skin-pack to whoever you think puts on the best SC2 competitive events. If you're spending 10+ hours a month watching competitive events put on by Streamer XYZ ... then do the right thing and give XYZ some $$$ for the entertainment he/she provides. If you want to take it even further start a funding drive. That will help keep the scene going.
Fan driven competitive scenes can last almost forever.
Super Tecmo Bowl, made in 1991, still has an active competitive scene culminating the "Tundra Bowl" in Wisconsin, USA. EA NHL '94 also still has an active competitive scene. Both of these games are not RTS games in the purest sence... but they are action//strategy games with assymetrical factions.
]Well made Action//Strategy competitive games last almost forever.
On February 24 2023 05:01 PresenceSc2 wrote: If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
Activision isn't interested in putting together anything just to better their game. They need a direct profit motive and there's none to be had for SC2.
This is just polemics. Do like Wardi and create your own events. That'll be tough though because Wardi does an abolutely spectacular job. A more practical thing would be to just donate $$$ to his events.
Red Alert 3 and C&C 4 came out around the same time as SC2. How is EA's esports support for those titles? How are the Relic//Sega CoH2 live events doing? What is up with AoE esports these days?
It is great to have all these pie-in-the-sky theories about what you expect from a publisher. The reality is... if you are thoroughly dissatisfied then play an RTS that has better esports support.
Over the past 15 years, Activision has done a better job supporting their RTS's than any major publisher.
As a consumer all I can do is pick my best option... ATVI's RTS games are it.
I am thankful to ATVI that we have another year of SC2 esports to watch. During the down time between major events I anticipate watching Wardi's events.
Wardii's tournaments work because they are very small in cost and scale compared to the relatively gigantic operations that GSL and ESL are.
If you want a peek at what "sustainable" Starcraft 2 looks like then yea he's a good one to look at.
But without larger funding for the more fun events that draw in the big viewers, smaller scale stuff like Wardii's is all we're going to eventually be left with. And I hate to break this to you, but none of the players that play in Wardii's tournaments see it as a form of sustainable income for them. His tournaments are a nice side addition to have while the big tournaments provide the main course for everyone.
I can guarantee you that this sort of negative impact on the scene WILL roll downhill. If the top events that keep the fans engaged are no longer around or are drastically reduced in scope, the drop in engagement from the community that will result will impact tournaments like Wardii's too eventually.
We did have something like WardiTV. It was called Olimoleague and that had to shut down due to costs and lack of sponsors I think. Let's not forget more Koreans are supported by the Chinese teams and we know the state of Chinese SC2. It's time to admit that professional SC2 in Korea is coming to an end. League of Legends is where it's at.
The massive reduction in prize pool is the most awful part. The merits of shrinking to a top 16 can be debated (do you want some competition for the spots or do you want basically every pro Korean to be in code S?), super tournament sucks but isn't the end of the world, same with online ro16-ro8, but it's hard to see how anyone except for 3-4 best players can make a living this way.
On February 24 2023 05:01 PresenceSc2 wrote: If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
Activision isn't interested in putting together anything just to better their game. They need a direct profit motive and there's none to be had for SC2.
Even if SC2 esports keeps drawing players to the game, where is there money to be made from it? That's their logic. It's just a waste of resources to keep investing in something just because the fans and players love it. That's how modern Activision/Blizzard thinks.
this is true but they only have themselves to blame for the monetization model they went with throughout the majority of the game's lifespan.
i hate to say it but if you want continued support for your game in current year, you have to expect the developer to inject some form of battle pass or MTX shop for a continuous source of income to keep the development going.
if a company (not just activision/blizz) isn't making money off a product, they can't justify spending money on the product. gotta remember that despite our passion for the game and esports that there's a company behind the production of the game and they have bills to pay - just like the teams that are falling apart do.
On February 24 2023 05:15 Riquiz wrote: Hate to see the deadgame-meme become a reality.
I think the short-term future of Korean scene depends on the information we get about Stormgate. If there's enough info to believe that they'll have meaningful esports within a year, a surprising # of players might stick around the SC2 scene to make sure they're in active shape.
If the timeline is longer, I think we'll see a lot of players just rush to get their military service done now, and then scope the RTS esports scene out when they're back.
On February 24 2023 06:22 Waxangel wrote: I think the short-term future of Korean scene depends on the information we get about Stormgate. If there's enough info to believe that they'll have meaningful esports within a year, a surprising # of players might stick around the SC2 scene to make sure they're in active shape.
If the timeline is longer, I think we'll see a lot of players just rush to get their military service done now, and then scope the RTS esports scene out when they're back.
This is basically the game theory of it. Another outside possibility would be to note there were roughly 50k viewers at Katowice peak. That's an established hard-core of fans for 10 years+. Everyone giving $20 would be $1mill a year, enough to self-fund the scene if things were well managed. The key part here is IF. Such an effort would need a figure with authority, possibly private sector experience, and mostly integrity; so I'm not holding my breath.
SCboy also announced their plan for the 2023 more than a week ago with an increase price pool and bringing back their master's coliseum all with the increased amount of sponsership because of Oliveira's win. So the Korean pros should be able to stay a bit longer before they really can't make a living anymore.
On February 24 2023 06:22 Waxangel wrote: I think the short-term future of Korean scene depends on the information we get about Stormgate. If there's enough info to believe that they'll have meaningful esports within a year, a surprising # of players might stick around the SC2 scene to make sure they're in active shape.
If the timeline is longer, I think we'll see a lot of players just rush to get their military service done now, and then scope the RTS esports scene out when they're back.
This is basically the game theory of it. Another outside possibility would be to note there were roughly 50k viewers at Katowice peak. That's an established hard-core of fans for 10 years+. Everyone giving $20 would be $1mill a year, enough to self-fund the scene if things were well managed. The key part here is IF. Such an effort would need a figure with authority, possibly private sector experience, and mostly integrity; so I'm not holding my breath.
you will never get 100% of viewers to pay $20 lol, you'd be lucky to convince even 5% of them to pay that much
On February 24 2023 06:22 Waxangel wrote: I think the short-term future of Korean scene depends on the information we get about Stormgate. If there's enough info to believe that they'll have meaningful esports within a year, a surprising # of players might stick around the SC2 scene to make sure they're in active shape.
If the timeline is longer, I think we'll see a lot of players just rush to get their military service done now, and then scope the RTS esports scene out when they're back.
This is basically the game theory of it. Another outside possibility would be to note there were roughly 50k viewers at Katowice peak. That's an established hard-core of fans for 10 years+. Everyone giving $20 would be $1mill a year, enough to self-fund the scene if things were well managed. The key part here is IF. Such an effort would need a figure with authority, possibly private sector experience, and mostly integrity; so I'm not holding my breath.
you will never get 100% of viewers to pay $20 lol, you'd be lucky to convince even 5% of them to pay that much
On the one hand chances are slim. On the other, $2 a month for something potentially better than last year's GSL, and keeping the scene alive ? That's a bargain to me - like a quarter of a Twitch sub lol. The importance is the dynamics and the signalling value, you could always index real prize pool to donations up to a low floor - extend another couple years at least.
In a world where Stormgate doesn't exist or flops as a competitive game, then Korean SC2 will prolly end up like War3 or pre-esports fighting games. Maybe 2~5 players can compete full-time due to all the sponsorship/team support concentrating into them, and they focus on playing at various international events.
On February 24 2023 06:38 Waxangel wrote: In a world where Stormgate doesn't exist or flops as a competitive game, then Korean SC2 will prolly end up like War3 or pre-esports fighting games. Maybe 2~5 players can compete full-time due to all the sponsorship/team support concentrating into them, and they focus on playing at various international events.
Yeah and in that world path dependency would matter, a lot. Such a scene would be so dull compared to our salad days that I doubt even this shrunken state would last long, audience-wise.
If im being honest, I always knew that 2022 was the end of the sc2 scene, and if we get any thing after, it qould be like a nice epilogue, as a thank you. For the fans. All the signs were there. To be honest im even surprised esl is continiung.
Lets just thank GSL for the effort they are making in running another year of sc2 after the developer abandoned the game. Thank esl for another year for sc2 as well.
And kiss the game goodbye.
There will always be a competitive scene, but sc2 as we knew it is dead. Expect korean pros to retire/go to other regions. Players like TY might fully focus on BW now. A lot will do their military service.
To be honest, I think season 3 of the gsl this year will be very different from season 1.
On February 24 2023 05:01 PresenceSc2 wrote: If they put in a battle pass they would make more then enough to keep KR scene going and make the ESL prize pool bigger. It wouldn't take too much effort to do really.
This is it boys. Actual deadgaem incoming. Enjoy the final season of Starcraft 2. It's been a fun 10+ years.
Hopefully Storm Gate blows up and is a worthy successor.
Activision isn't interested in putting together anything just to better their game. They need a direct profit motive and there's none to be had for SC2.
This is just polemics. Do like Wardi and create your own events. That'll be tough though because Wardi does an abolutely spectacular job. A more practical thing would be to just donate $$$ to his events.
Red Alert 3 and C&C 4 came out around the same time as SC2. How is EA's esports support for those titles? How are the Relic//Sega CoH2 live events doing? What is up with AoE esports these days?
It is great to have all these pie-in-the-sky theories about what you expect from a publisher. The reality is... if you are thoroughly dissatisfied then play an RTS that has better esports support.
Over the past 15 years, Activision has done a better job supporting their RTS's than any major publisher.
As a consumer all I can do is pick my best option... ATVI's RTS games are it.
I am thankful to ATVI that we have another year of SC2 esports to watch. During the down time between major events I anticipate watching Wardi's events.
On February 24 2023 04:58 Blargh wrote: Additional thought, I suppose we'll see a lot of career transitions
career transitions out of the "SC2-only" niche have been a smart move for a long long time. many years ago Incontrol made the smart move of rebranding himself as the "Strategy Game" guy. This allowed him to get involved in C&C and other big strategy titles.
starcraft carried activision/blizzard and as a symbol of an esport, of course there is a responsibility to push it and polish that esport RTS champion aura.
Obviously it sting a lot, but on the side, IDK, we all knew it was gonna end someday, I don't hate that it's that way.
The last 5 or 6 years have been good for Korean progamers. They had a stable payday, the competition was organically getting easier as the retirement piled on and everyone got a chance to have their moment in the spotlight. Now the little band of brothers that remain have one last year with a little support while they get their things in order before heading into the world.
There are very little esport scenes that end in such an harmonious way.
I just hope Afreeca can get through the whole year to finish it on their own term and not colapse midway to the year.
On February 24 2023 06:22 Waxangel wrote: I think the short-term future of Korean scene depends on the information we get about Stormgate. If there's enough info to believe that they'll have meaningful esports within a year, a surprising # of players might stick around the SC2 scene to make sure they're in active shape.
If the timeline is longer, I think we'll see a lot of players just rush to get their military service done now, and then scope the RTS esports scene out when they're back.
I don't believe that Stormgate will be ready fast enough to capitalize on this.
On February 24 2023 04:28 geokilla wrote: I anticipate a lot of retirement announcements. Most of the players are gone anyways and the prize pool is minuscule. There's no way players can support themselves while having a career in SC2.
On February 24 2023 07:36 tlnetuser108 wrote: And people really thought Artosis ditched GSL for his family lol. He left because he saw the writing on the wall
Idk, man.. S. Korean costs of living are a bummer. Especially if you have such a big family.
people mourning like GSL is totally cancelled instead of being grateful we get another year is what I cant understand. of course this is sad but its also not totally unforeseen. GSL numbers in korea have been shit for years. thank you afreeca for at least one more year of this legendary league!
On February 24 2023 07:48 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people mourning like GSL is totally cancelled instead of being grateful we get another year is what I cant understand. of course this is sad but its also not totally unforeseen. GSL numbers in korea have been shit for years. thank you afreeca for at least one more year of this legendary league!
Why be happy for impending doom? Thats like not being sad when your best friend announces that he has a year to live and then will die of cancer. "Well you're gonna die, but let's think on the brightside! You got a year left"
On February 24 2023 07:48 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people mourning like GSL is totally cancelled instead of being grateful we get another year is what I cant understand. of course this is sad but its also not totally unforeseen. GSL numbers in korea have been shit for years. thank you afreeca for at least one more year of this legendary league!
yes, people are right to mourn. GSL is as good as dead dude. online until the semis? no studio? c'mon, this isn't GSL. I almost wish it disappeared entirely and became a happy memory. I'm not sure I can stomach watching it in such a diminished state. at least I'm glad that ESL can support the highest performing players for another year
On February 24 2023 07:48 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people mourning like GSL is totally cancelled instead of being grateful we get another year is what I cant understand. of course this is sad but its also not totally unforeseen. GSL numbers in korea have been shit for years. thank you afreeca for at least one more year of this legendary league!
Why be happy for impending doom? Thats like not being sad when your best friend announces that he has a year to live and then will die of cancer. "Well you're gonna die, but let's think on the brightside! You got a year left"
So you would prefer if your friend dies immediately? Don't get me wrong, of course you can be sad or dissappointed or even angry. But the fact is, that SC2 has a really low standing in Korea compared to LoL, Valorant or even Overwatch and BroodWar. You could argue it already was blown out of proportion last year. And in the end, GSL is a national tournament, that mainly gets revenue through its home-market. While the cut is drastic, I would assume Afreeca did the best they could without it being harmful to the company.
On February 24 2023 07:48 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people mourning like GSL is totally cancelled instead of being grateful we get another year is what I cant understand. of course this is sad but its also not totally unforeseen. GSL numbers in korea have been shit for years. thank you afreeca for at least one more year of this legendary league!
Why be happy for impending doom? Thats like not being sad when your best friend announces that he has a year to live and then will die of cancer. "Well you're gonna die, but let's think on the brightside! You got a year left"
that is literally the attiude people have had towards sc2 since like 2012 and its so tiresome. the negativity in this scene has been overwhelming for years and years.I am not saying be happy because GSL is obviously ending. I am saying lets make the best out of what we are getting (and all that we have gotten!) and lets not be delusional about the state of the korean scene or sc2 in general. maybe I am just in another phase of the famous 5 stages of grief than most of the sc2 fans are.
Damn, it's really saddening, but we knew this would happen eventually. Think of how much money goes into all the production, the casters, the hostess, all the staff running the studio, etc... just for a few hundred online Korean views, and ~20-50 in the audience for most matches.
At the least, Rogue got a 4th GSL win, Maru got G5L, and Oliveira got his cinderella run just before this, so we can at least feel we had a satisfying conclusion to the era.
I'm really happy that we at least got that, and also that GSL lasted as long as it did as a premiere tournament.
I'm sad that we won't get to see Round Robin in 2023. I was really happy and enjoying how many more games and matchups there were, and it felt more engaging because there were more ways players could advance than the simple groups of 4.
I'm sad that we won't get to see the continued rise of players like Ragnarok and Creator. It's sad that we won't get to stick around long enough to see if newer players like Percival, Spear, etc., may be able to get a foothold in GSL. I'm sad that we won't get to watch a GSL grand finals knowing a lot is on the line and that we can expect top notch premiere level competition. I'm sad that we won't get to see the level of play and intensity like in Creator vs Rogue. (Creator made lots of big mistakes, but godamn the games he won he did amazing in, like the adept game was surprisingly impressive).
I expect a lot of retirements too, but I guess a few of the best might stick around, right? Maybe even some of the best would feel it's not worth it and players like Creator would stick around hoping for easier competition.
It must be so crushing for players like Creator to see that after they started to get good again, that GSL will be a shadow, and they'll never be able to win a premiere GSL. At the least, ESL is continuing, and players can compete globally... I guess that's something.
Anyway, I'll be happy with what I can get at this point, SC2 has lived long for 12 years already.
Not surprising at all, GSL and Afreeca based SC2 has been on a slow but steady decline for awhile, Activision won't lift a finger if profits can't be made regularly from a game, that's why there are still WoW expansions.
GSL comes on too infrequently to really make me upset about it anyways, it's been the same 16 players advancing for many years now, international tournaments are overall just more interesting to me.
All that being said, SC2 isn't a young game, and all good things must come to an end.
On February 24 2023 07:48 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people mourning like GSL is totally cancelled instead of being grateful we get another year is what I cant understand. of course this is sad but its also not totally unforeseen. GSL numbers in korea have been shit for years. thank you afreeca for at least one more year of this legendary league!
Why be happy for impending doom? Thats like not being sad when your best friend announces that he has a year to live and then will die of cancer. "Well you're gonna die, but let's think on the brightside! You got a year left"
So you would prefer if your friend dies immediately? Don't get me wrong, of course you can be sad or dissappointed or even angry. But the fact is, that SC2 has a really low standing in Korea compared to LoL, Valorant or even Overwatch and BroodWar. You could argue it already was blown out of proportion last year. And in the end, GSL is a national tournament, that mainly gets revenue through its home-market. While the cut is drastic, I would assume Afreeca did the best they could without it being harmful to the company.
Is ir better that your friend got cancer and will die in 6 months instead of dying suddenly in a car crash?
Both suck. Theres no better one.
I dont think you can be happy about either, but i do agree with you that we should at leadt be thankful of having a little epilogue.
Sad to see GSL needing to downsize as much, The prize pool reduction is really big. I wish they were open to community support, I would gladly contribute to the prize pool of a tournament that has given me so many hours of high-quality entertainment. Regarding player retirements, my understanding was that the majority of korean players were getting most of their income from their WTL teams anyway. If that is the case, the reduction might not be so important for the maintenance of the pro scene.
On February 24 2023 07:48 Andi_Goldberger wrote: people mourning like GSL is totally cancelled instead of being grateful we get another year is what I cant understand. of course this is sad but its also not totally unforeseen. GSL numbers in korea have been shit for years. thank you afreeca for at least one more year of this legendary league!
Why be happy for impending doom? Thats like not being sad when your best friend announces that he has a year to live and then will die of cancer. "Well you're gonna die, but let's think on the brightside! You got a year left"
So you would prefer if your friend dies immediately? Don't get me wrong, of course you can be sad or dissappointed or even angry. But the fact is, that SC2 has a really low standing in Korea compared to LoL, Valorant or even Overwatch and BroodWar. You could argue it already was blown out of proportion last year. And in the end, GSL is a national tournament, that mainly gets revenue through its home-market. While the cut is drastic, I would assume Afreeca did the best they could without it being harmful to the company.
Is ir better that your friend got cancer and will die in 6 months instead of dying suddenly in a car crash?
Both suck. Theres no better one.
I dont think you can be happy about either, but i do agree with you that we should at leadt be thankful of having a little epilogue.
its gonna be better than the LOTV epilogue thats for certain at least :p
end of an era, but it was inevitable that money would tapper off. Im just thankful for all the times we had. And im glad they are giving a diminished turney a try instead of just abandoning the project all together.
This is sad. Embarrassing prize pool. I always wanted to see GSL live and was looking at going to Korea next year or 2. I don't think I'll want to watch it live now that its on its last breath, that's just a sad memory lol. Shame couldn't see it during its good times. Would of loved to have seen it a few years ago or even just a couple. Now i finally have a job that pays ok and save for a trip. RIP
Looks like Sc2 in Korea going to almost die with this. ASL is still great tho. Looks like European scene will be where it's at.
Seems to be no real new pros in sc2 in Korea and will be even less now. It might just be better if this is the last year of GSL. It if Goes next year it will be even more on life support then this. GSL prize pool is this year is less then one season of last year.
We have been lucky to have it go this long considering it never really made money for awhile. Even when GSL had a decent foreign audience they never did anything to monetise that audience. Was almost like a charity stream for us to enjoy.
On February 24 2023 04:58 Blargh wrote: I mean, let's be real here... If AAA eSports orgs are going bust, it shouldn't be a surprise for stuff as small as StarCraft to get chopped.
It's basically impossible to even call GSL the premiere tournament series now. Almost laughable to think of someone going to Korea to participate. It's just a Ro16 too?
It's really sad to see. I guess it's the end of an era.
welp, there goes the Big Gabe to Korea plan
was he really going to do it for money though? I thought he wanted to prove himself as a player or just for the experience in general..
If all the Korean pros were to focus mainly on European/NA events, would it be enough to go around? If not most SC2 Korean pros will probably move to BW, seems like a very natural transition and they will bring in new attention.
On February 24 2023 16:56 Dante08 wrote: If all the Korean pros were to focus mainly on European/NA events, would it be enough to go around? If not most SC2 Korean pros will probably move to BW, seems like a very natural transition and they will bring in new attention.
No. There is region lock. Korean players can't compete in na or eu. When you see them in American open cups it's because those award global points.
On February 24 2023 16:41 TheCheapSkate wrote: Beginning of the end. Glad I was able to see Katowice live this year. It was a good ride. Hope Stormgate delivers.
It will. The guys making already made sc2. They know what they are doing.
It's been a good run. SC2 has been the premier competitive RTS for over a decade.
While we mourn, let us not forget what a time it's been. SC2 has lasted far too long to be truly disappointed here - it burned both long and bright. Could hardly ask for more.
On February 24 2023 18:35 Harris1st wrote: Microsoft where are you? Just buy that damn thing already and leave some money on the table for SC2!
They fired a lot of people in the tech layoff thing, among them 343 employees. They are not running Halo esports well despite it being a legacy flagship game of them, so I would not count on MS to save StarCraft 2 even if they manage to buy AT-Blizzard in time
On February 24 2023 16:41 TheCheapSkate wrote: Beginning of the end. Glad I was able to see Katowice live this year. It was a good ride. Hope Stormgate delivers.
It will. The guys making already made sc2. They know what they are doing.
Makes sense given the macro climate. Unless your definition of an alive game requires big event halls and 9 people casting your game, SC will be fine. Some of us have been playing Starcraft for close to 25 years. Not gonna stop playing because it takes a little longer to queue a match, or because people can't play it professionally.
On February 24 2023 18:35 Harris1st wrote: Microsoft where are you? Just buy that damn thing already and leave some money on the table for SC2!
They fired a lot of people in the tech layoff thing, among them 343 employees. They are not running Halo esports well despite it being a legacy flagship game of them, so I would not count on MS to save StarCraft 2 even if they manage to buy AT-Blizzard in time
Yeah I don't expect this to happen. Would be nice though
Oh one thing I probably should mention is that the Chinese side will likely have things to somewhat make up the lost prize money. I don't think they'll fully do it, but it's at least better than nothing.
On February 24 2023 21:47 digmouse wrote: Oh one thing I probably should mention is that the Chinese side will likely have things to somewhat make up the lost prize money. I don't think they'll fully do it, but it's at least better than nothing.
A critical thing imo is if Activision-Blizzard (and some Chinese gaming company X) is still reaching out and interested in restoring Blizzard games in China. It's kind of a travesty at this point that much of the scene is supported by Chinese fans and they can't even play the game officially.
On February 24 2023 16:41 TheCheapSkate wrote: Beginning of the end. Glad I was able to see Katowice live this year. It was a good ride. Hope Stormgate delivers.
It will. The guys making already made sc2. They know what they are doing.
If they knew what they were doing, why didnt they make Starcraft 2 perfect on release?
I don't even know where to begin answering this question
I know people don't like to hear it but GSL has already ran far longer than it had any right to. Blizzard invested so much money into it to keep it alive, and viewership has been so low. In korea they never cared about SC2. I'm grateful for how long we've been able to enjoy GSL.
Hopefully we see some big names come back to Broodwar which, is still huge in Korea!
On February 24 2023 16:41 TheCheapSkate wrote: Beginning of the end. Glad I was able to see Katowice live this year. It was a good ride. Hope Stormgate delivers.
It will. The guys making already made sc2. They know what they are doing.
If they knew what they were doing, why didnt they make Starcraft 2 perfect on release?
I don't even know where to begin answering this question
It's another topic but, the guys who made stormgate are the guys who are super into warcraft 3 and co-op and appeal to casuals. So If it's going to be anything like Starcraft, is questionable..
On February 24 2023 16:41 TheCheapSkate wrote: Beginning of the end. Glad I was able to see Katowice live this year. It was a good ride. Hope Stormgate delivers.
It will. The guys making already made sc2. They know what they are doing.
If they knew what they were doing, why didnt they make Starcraft 2 perfect on release?
Because they still had 2 expansions to go where they had to implement new units etc
I'm not big on this hope that Stormgate will save RTS esports. Even if they make the perfect RTS successor (and that's a big if), Frost Giant is not Blizzard, as in right now they don't have the money or manpower to hype up the game as a popular competitive esports hosting massive tournaments.
Curious if there was any talk of ending the current region lock and maybe going back to like the old WCS region lock, where you just had to live where you were competing (Like when Polt was in NA Stardust in EU). Maybe ESL didn't want to do this now because that would for sure hurt GSL. I'm not even sure who would be willing to do that but someone like Solar comes to mind and probably a few others. But I bet at this point yeah most of these guys are going to look to go to the military and get it out of the way.
Just imo its better for the health of the scene if we can retain as many of the KR pros as possible.
On February 24 2023 16:41 TheCheapSkate wrote: Beginning of the end. Glad I was able to see Katowice live this year. It was a good ride. Hope Stormgate delivers.
It will. The guys making already made sc2. They know what they are doing.
They helped with SC2 later on. Browder and David Kim arent on the frostgiants team
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
Shame, big shame but expected. Both SCs are now hurting with ASL being delayed more and more. Blizz could revive the game and scene by just contuining to support it, by pushing new content bit by bit but greediness at the end won. But I still believe this is not end, we saw BW overcame dark ages when SC2 transition happened so I'm expecting we're going to always see tournaments running around.
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
his account was made in July 2016. i'd bet he recognizes geoff, but anyone that wasn't following during WOL probably doesn't recognize idra or pain user. maybe they recognize djWheat from other things?
even destiny's current viewers get surprised when he starts playing starcraft. the nujabes with kyle days have long since passed.
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
On February 24 2023 22:03 Comedy wrote: I know people don't like to hear it but GSL has already ran far longer than it had any right to. Blizzard invested so much money into it to keep it alive, and viewership has been so low. In korea they never cared about SC2. I'm grateful for how long we've been able to enjoy GSL.
Hopefully we see some big names come back to Broodwar which, is still huge in Korea!
Honestly GSL viewership isn't even that bad. Games like CSGO do a hundred times better on twitch, but youtube and VOD numbers of GSL are as good if not better a lot of the time. Even Lowko and PiG pull great views on their daily videos.
Especially with the timezone difference of a korean tournament streamed in english, youtube is just the better platform for it.
Sadly I can only see the top 10 koreans being able to stay full time. Unless the community events pull through big time.
Homestory Cup, WTL, ASL English, and the countless other events funded by its own sponsors or crownfunding shows how much the scene can support itself even without Blizzard money.
I hope you're not buying another Blizzard title anymore. Vote with your money. For a company this big, really, they could support Starcraft 2 for many more years. The changes they did with tourneys years ago started the downfall. This is the end. I can't really see Korean scene supporting itself. Most of the guys there don't stream, have no other revenue beside tournament wins and salary. Less playtime, less viewers, less money. All there is.
This is a semi goodbye post, no longer a player, hardly a watcher anymore. Having less years to 40 than 30 is making werid things to us.
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
On February 25 2023 11:49 NotSoHappy wrote: I hope you're not buying another Blizzard title anymore. Vote with your money. For a company this big, really, they could support Starcraft 2 for many more years. The changes they did with tourneys years ago started the downfall. This is the end. I can't really see Korean scene supporting itself. Most of the guys there don't stream, have no other revenue beside tournament wins and salary. Less playtime, less viewers, less money. All there is.
This is a semi goodbye post, no longer a player, hardly a watcher anymore. Having less years to 40 than 30 is making werid things to us.
They're just like any other developer for me now. I've gone from buying every single one of their games because it was a Blizzard game to now thoroughly vetting each game before I buy it because I can't know for sure if it's going to be any good. Warcraft Reforged was the first thing they've ever released where I cringed and just shook my head at how bad it was, Diablo Immortal was much worse.
I've long since quit WoW (quit back in 2015), Hearthstone and Overwatch. Pro SC2 is getting a huge nerf, and that just leaves Diablo which I still enjoy since D3 was a lot of fun, and I am paying close attention to D4. It would have been an instant purchase in years past but now I'm very wary of whether or not I want to give it a chance.
lol well we all knew this was coming at some point That the Korean SC2 scene has even lasted this long is pretty amazing given the game's lack of popularity in Korea
On February 24 2023 23:50 tlnetuser108 wrote: What Destiny said to DJ Wheat, Idra, InControl and Pain User was and still is totally accurate. Spot on even in 2023
I really don't, I came to the scene in 2015. From these people I only recognize InControl and Idra. So again ,who are these people who call themselves a "die-hard part of the community?
correct me im wrong but it looks like despite all of this, they are not lifting the region lock.
absolutely absurd decision, basically accepting all korean players as collateral damage. welp guess they can retire now instead of possibly still maintining a career if they are willing to travel abroad.
On February 26 2023 01:35 freelifeffs wrote: correct me im wrong but it looks like despite all of this, they are not lifting the region lock.
absolutely absurd decision, basically accepting all korean players as collateral damage. welp guess they can retire now instead of possibly still maintining a career if they are willing to travel abroad.
what the actual f*** is this shit decision?
Region lock is not really that big of a deal anymore. It's not like there's much money in the other scenes either. The likely breakdown will be Euro scene gets $100k a year for 32 players, the Americas get $50k for 16 players, the rest of Asia/Oceania gets $50k for 16 players. Koreans likely will get 6 slots in the offline finals plus anyone willing to travel to play in the open bracket. They're free to participate in the weekly cups as always.
On February 25 2023 06:13 outscar wrote: Shame, big shame but expected. Both SCs are now hurting with ASL being delayed more and more. Blizz could revive the game and scene by just contuining to support it, by pushing new content bit by bit but greediness at the end won. But I still believe this is not end, we saw BW overcame dark ages when SC2 transition happened so I'm expecting we're going to always see tournaments running around.
BW is doing more than fine in Korea, I think ASL was being delayed because rumours were Blizzard was being a bitch and wanted to charge more money for Afreeca to host ASL. So they are actually getting money rather than sponsoring it.
On February 26 2023 01:35 freelifeffs wrote: correct me im wrong but it looks like despite all of this, they are not lifting the region lock.
absolutely absurd decision, basically accepting all korean players as collateral damage. welp guess they can retire now instead of possibly still maintining a career if they are willing to travel abroad.
what the actual f*** is this shit decision?
Region lock is not really that big of a deal anymore. It's not like there's much money in the other scenes either. The likely breakdown will be Euro scene gets $100k a year for 32 players, the Americas get $50k for 16 players, the rest of Asia/Oceania gets $50k for 16 players. Koreans likely will get 6 slots in the offline finals plus anyone willing to travel to play in the open bracket. They're free to participate in the weekly cups as always.
Region lock doesn't even exist anymore. Ppl just complain without knowing how the ecosystem even works.
On February 26 2023 01:35 freelifeffs wrote: correct me im wrong but it looks like despite all of this, they are not lifting the region lock.
absolutely absurd decision, basically accepting all korean players as collateral damage. welp guess they can retire now instead of possibly still maintining a career if they are willing to travel abroad.
what the actual f*** is this shit decision?
Region lock is not really that big of a deal anymore. It's not like there's much money in the other scenes either. The likely breakdown will be Euro scene gets $100k a year for 32 players, the Americas get $50k for 16 players, the rest of Asia/Oceania gets $50k for 16 players. Koreans likely will get 6 slots in the offline finals plus anyone willing to travel to play in the open bracket. They're free to participate in the weekly cups as always.
Region lock doesn't even exist anymore. Ppl just complain without knowing how the ecosystem even works.
Of course it still does, otherwise people would have farmed DH masters NA lmao
On February 26 2023 01:35 freelifeffs wrote: correct me im wrong but it looks like despite all of this, they are not lifting the region lock.
absolutely absurd decision, basically accepting all korean players as collateral damage. welp guess they can retire now instead of possibly still maintining a career if they are willing to travel abroad.
what the actual f*** is this shit decision?
Region lock is not really that big of a deal anymore. It's not like there's much money in the other scenes either. The likely breakdown will be Euro scene gets $100k a year for 32 players, the Americas get $50k for 16 players, the rest of Asia/Oceania gets $50k for 16 players. Koreans likely will get 6 slots in the offline finals plus anyone willing to travel to play in the open bracket. They're free to participate in the weekly cups as always.
Region lock doesn't even exist anymore. Ppl just complain without knowing how the ecosystem even works.
Of course it still does, otherwise people would have farmed DH masters NA lmao
You're actually proving you also don't understand the structure of WCS/EPT
Lol at all the people complaining about the prize pool amount and how Korean pro player can’t make a living off it
Since the beginning of SC2 GSL has always been TOP heavy with their prize pool split that it was quite laughable. Winner gets 30-40K, runner up was like 10K and the rest gets peanuts
Korea has themselves only to blame for not supporting their own talent
Blizzard dumped money in SC2 for years and the split was always roughly 50% for Korea and 50% for the rest of the world.
The rest of the world was able to grow the game and support new blood. While Korea fail to do the same because their prize pool management was a joke
Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
On February 24 2023 22:03 Comedy wrote: I know people don't like to hear it but GSL has already ran far longer than it had any right to. Blizzard invested so much money into it to keep it alive, and viewership has been so low. In korea they never cared about SC2. I'm grateful for how long we've been able to enjoy GSL.
Hopefully we see some big names come back to Broodwar which, is still huge in Korea!
Honestly GSL viewership isn't even that bad. Games like CSGO do a hundred times better on twitch, but youtube and VOD numbers of GSL are as good if not better a lot of the time. Even Lowko and PiG pull great views on their daily videos.
Especially with the timezone difference of a korean tournament streamed in english, youtube is just the better platform for it.
Sadly I can only see the top 10 koreans being able to stay full time. Unless the community events pull through big time.
Homestory Cup, WTL, ASL English, and the countless other events funded by its own sponsors or crownfunding shows how much the scene can support itself even without Blizzard money.
are you mad? GSL viewership on afreeca was dreadful to say the least... It wasn't bad at all for english casts on youtube but Afreeca korean stream numbers weren't great for very long time.
On February 26 2023 01:35 freelifeffs wrote: correct me im wrong but it looks like despite all of this, they are not lifting the region lock.
absolutely absurd decision, basically accepting all korean players as collateral damage. welp guess they can retire now instead of possibly still maintining a career if they are willing to travel abroad.
what the actual f*** is this shit decision?
Region lock is not really that big of a deal anymore. It's not like there's much money in the other scenes either. The likely breakdown will be Euro scene gets $100k a year for 32 players, the Americas get $50k for 16 players, the rest of Asia/Oceania gets $50k for 16 players. Koreans likely will get 6 slots in the offline finals plus anyone willing to travel to play in the open bracket. They're free to participate in the weekly cups as always.
Region lock doesn't even exist anymore. Ppl just complain without knowing how the ecosystem even works.
Of course it still does, otherwise people would have farmed DH masters NA lmao
You're actually proving you also don't understand the structure of WCS/EPT
the best I'll accept is an "it's complicated"
Please enlighten me with your condescending tone then, because as far as I know, it's pretty close to 2013 with DH Masters regionals and GSL being the equivalent of WCS EU/NA and GSL/OSL, DH Masters Atlanta/Valencia etc. the equivalent of WCS Seasonal Finals, except this rule is here to protect foreigners from korean invasion.
On February 26 2023 01:35 freelifeffs wrote: correct me im wrong but it looks like despite all of this, they are not lifting the region lock.
absolutely absurd decision, basically accepting all korean players as collateral damage. welp guess they can retire now instead of possibly still maintining a career if they are willing to travel abroad.
what the actual f*** is this shit decision?
Region lock is not really that big of a deal anymore. It's not like there's much money in the other scenes either. The likely breakdown will be Euro scene gets $100k a year for 32 players, the Americas get $50k for 16 players, the rest of Asia/Oceania gets $50k for 16 players. Koreans likely will get 6 slots in the offline finals plus anyone willing to travel to play in the open bracket. They're free to participate in the weekly cups as always.
Region lock doesn't even exist anymore. Ppl just complain without knowing how the ecosystem even works.
Of course it still does, otherwise people would have farmed DH masters NA lmao
You're actually proving you also don't understand the structure of WCS/EPT
the best I'll accept is an "it's complicated"
Please enlighten me with your condescending tone then, because as far as I know, it's pretty close to 2013 with DH Masters regionals and GSL being the equivalent of WCS EU/NA and GSL/OSL, DH Masters Atlanta/Valencia etc. the equivalent of WCS Seasonal Finals, except this rule is here to protect foreigners from korean invasion.
Yeah, literally every big tournament other than GSL is either restricted to a specific region or has a certain number of spots for each region. Not sure what that guy's on about.
On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote: Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments.
On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
I tuned back into watching GSL in 2022 after a long time away from watching any esports. It's sad SC2's fade into the past is more clearly upon us, but it's amazing how long it's gone. Majorly thankful to all the players, casters, producers, organizers, etc who have worked to make SC2 what it was and is.
I imagine rewatching old SC2 VODS in 10 years will be a fun time. Lots of great content is archived and available which is cool.
On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote: Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments.
On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard.
Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote: Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments.
On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard.
Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
Yeah, Blizzard killed the game 10+ years ago and that is why GSL was such a joke since then...what? The reason Esports is where it is today is because of publisher-assisted Esports. Having consistent and regulated tournaments instead of the wild-west we had before, where getting your prizemoney in a timespan of two years still was considered good, since it meant you eventually would get it.
SC2 was just never as popular in Korea as BW was. BW was national sport, SC2 was just a game that soon got outshined by LoL. SC2 still did exceptionally well over the years in Korea, if you compare it for example with WC3. Yes, WC3 was also dominated heavily by koreans, but because of the MBC map-scandal all koreans where employed by western teams, since that was were the money was. The korean scene itself was dead before it even started.
On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote: Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments.
On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard.
Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
Yeah, Blizzard killed the game 10+ years ago and that is why GSL was such a joke since then...what? The reason Esports is where it is today is because of publisher-assisted Esports. Having consistent and regulated tournaments instead of the wild-west we had before, where getting your prizemoney in a timespan of two years still was considered good, since it meant you eventually would get it.
SC2 was just never as popular in Korea as BW was. BW was national sport, SC2 was just a game that soon got outshined by LoL. SC2 still did exceptionally well over the years in Korea, if you compare it for example with WC3. Yes, WC3 was also dominated heavily by koreans, but because of the MBC map-scandal all koreans where employed by western teams, since that was were the money was. The korean scene itself was dead before it even started.
Blizzard killed the ability for StarCraft or really any eSport to support itself without the need for publisher money. Korea had a completely self sustaining system that 100s if not 1000s of people were making a career out of. A system that was watched by millions and brought in significant ad revenue. It did not need Blizzard at all.
Instead of taking an approach of saying that's amazing that our game is being used that way, thanks for the millions of extra sales that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise, how can we partner together to recreate this success with SC2? They threw a fit and said this is copyright infringement we want completely control over all broadcasts of our games or else the industry can't exist. Someone who loved StarCraft would have taken the first approach and SC2 would have likely done much better in Korea and BW would still be going even stronger than it already is.
Considering the timeframe it's likely this was done by some Activision exec who knew nothing about SC and just saw a way to squeeze some money out of a place there wasn't much even if that meant killing it.
You say that SC2's popularity in Korea is why it's dying. I'm saying that Blizzards decisions about SC2 eSports and desire for complete control are exactly why it never took off in Korea. This desire was also the reason things like no lan happened which massively effected it's ability to gain popularity.
apparently, Innovation told Crank he won't be participating GSL during their call according to some korean forum posts. I haven't seen footage myself but that's what people who watched are saying.
But apparently Stats said don't listen to what he says since he changes his mind often
On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote: Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments.
On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard.
Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
Yeah, Blizzard killed the game 10+ years ago and that is why GSL was such a joke since then...what? The reason Esports is where it is today is because of publisher-assisted Esports. Having consistent and regulated tournaments instead of the wild-west we had before, where getting your prizemoney in a timespan of two years still was considered good, since it meant you eventually would get it.
SC2 was just never as popular in Korea as BW was. BW was national sport, SC2 was just a game that soon got outshined by LoL. SC2 still did exceptionally well over the years in Korea, if you compare it for example with WC3. Yes, WC3 was also dominated heavily by koreans, but because of the MBC map-scandal all koreans where employed by western teams, since that was were the money was. The korean scene itself was dead before it even started.
Blizzard killed the ability for StarCraft or really any eSport to support itself without the need for publisher money. Korea had a completely self sustaining system that 100s if not 1000s of people were making a career out of. A system that was watched by millions and brought in significant ad revenue. It did not need Blizzard at all.
Instead of taking an approach of saying that's amazing that our game is being used that way, thanks for the millions of extra sales that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise, how can we partner together to recreate this success with SC2? They threw a fit and said this is copyright infringement we want completely control over all broadcasts of our games or else the industry can't exist. Someone who loved StarCraft would have taken the first approach and SC2 would have likely done much better in Korea and BW would still be going even stronger than it already is.
Considering the timeframe it's likely this was done by some Activision exec who knew nothing about SC and just saw a way to squeeze some money out of a place there wasn't much even if that meant killing it.
You say that SC2's popularity in Korea is why it's dying. I'm saying that Blizzards decisions about SC2 eSports and desire for complete control are exactly why it never took off in Korea. This desire was also the reason things like no lan happened which massively effected it's ability to gain popularity.
Kespa wasn't exactly thrilled about SC2 either. They had a well-established system running, switching into another game hugely threatened their entire position. And in the end, people decided what they wanted to see and play, had probably nothing to do with Blizzard. Please also remember that the first WCS came two to three years after release, so there was plenty of things going on before it got streamlined a bit - into a system that supported on a global scale instead of just Korea.
Of course we will never know, but I'm pretty sure that without Blizzards money and streamlining, SC2s global competition would have fallen flat years ago, with korea maybe, just maaaaybeee, having a competition going that "no one" outside of korea really cares about. But we most certainly would not have had a 500K world championship in 2022/23, because there would be no need for a world championship anymore.
On February 25 2023 11:49 NotSoHappy wrote: I hope you're not buying another Blizzard title anymore. Vote with your money. For a company this big, really, they could support Starcraft 2 for many more years. The changes they did with tourneys years ago started the downfall. This is the end. I can't really see Korean scene supporting itself. Most of the guys there don't stream, have no other revenue beside tournament wins and salary. Less playtime, less viewers, less money. All there is.
This is a semi goodbye post, no longer a player, hardly a watcher anymore. Having less years to 40 than 30 is making werid things to us.
They're just like any other developer for me now. I've gone from buying every single one of their games because it was a Blizzard game to now thoroughly vetting each game before I buy it because I can't know for sure if it's going to be any good. Warcraft Reforged was the first thing they've ever released where I cringed and just shook my head at how bad it was, Diablo Immortal was much worse.
I've long since quit WoW (quit back in 2015), Hearthstone and Overwatch. Pro SC2 is getting a huge nerf, and that just leaves Diablo which I still enjoy since D3 was a lot of fun, and I am paying close attention to D4. It would have been an instant purchase in years past but now I'm very wary of whether or not I want to give it a chance.
I stopped buying blizz games with d3. D2 was all about Pvp, trading, farming, in that order. D3 is all about farming. Blizz is long gone, people that rule it now aren't the same people that created the main IPs.
On February 26 2023 07:56 AcrossFromTime wrote: Blizzard continued to support the esports scene long after it stopped producing any significant profit for them. For me I can't really blame them for finally pulling out.
Blizzard supported it by taking over a scene that was holding tournaments 24/7 with many more opportunities to win money than when the GSL dropped? Did they support it like Dota2/CSGO/LoL are? Their players are PAID decent without winning that way they can focus on what they do. Blizz dropping some of the prize pool and putting trash restrictions on the company's that host events killed a ton of tournaments.
On that note too I'm not sure that esports overall is a profit beast when it comes to any game. Even the LCS, how much money do you think their streams actually generate? It is more hype/news about the game hoping to keep more players interested in buying skins etc, but the tournament itself directly is probably always a loss.
Agreed. The Blizzard Kespa lawsuit around SC2 launch is what really killed StarCraft. Without it we probably would still have far more KR based content for both BW and SC2 because the content would be self sustaining rather than reliant on Blizzard.
Not even just for StarCraft It's so dumb to me that because a company created a game the legal system has decided that they deserve a cut from any monetized video that happens to have content from that game in it. Those decisions probably killed any chance of self sustaining eSports without developer cash support ever being a thing. It makes no sense to me because I don't believe the descendants of whoever created popular sports like basketball, football etc. are getting a cut from broadcasts.
If this is the end, I'm grateful for all the good times these tournaments gave us. It's a shock to me to realize how long this has been going on, I had never even considered it was going to end at some point.
I'm sure there will still be some competition in some form or another, but nothing like what we had.
So many pros will retire. And the ones that don't will probably be the Marus or Heros or Darks who will just dominate everything and make for an extremely boring scene to follow. The game is officially on life support.
Crowdfunding options are being discussed internally. Hopefully a more official statement can be given soon. It is also important for us to try and give something back, GSL merch, something signed by players, etc.
On March 03 2023 05:45 afreecaTV.Char wrote: Crowdfunding options are being discussed internally. Hopefully a more official statement can be given soon. It is also important for us to try and give something back, GSL merch, something signed by players, etc.
Thank you! I hope there can be a way for other companies or the community to support.
On March 03 2023 05:45 afreecaTV.Char wrote: Crowdfunding options are being discussed internally. Hopefully a more official statement can be given soon. It is also important for us to try and give something back, GSL merch, something signed by players, etc.
I hope something can come of this. The staff at afreeca were awesome to me in 2017 when I was allowed to interview GuMiho and soO before the Season 2 finals. I know I'm not the only one who would love to have a way to give back for all the years of great memories.
On March 03 2023 05:45 afreecaTV.Char wrote: Crowdfunding options are being discussed internally. Hopefully a more official statement can be given soon. It is also important for us to try and give something back, GSL merch, something signed by players, etc.
I hope something like this can happen. Fingers crossed !
On March 03 2023 05:45 afreecaTV.Char wrote: Crowdfunding options are being discussed internally. Hopefully a more official statement can be given soon. It is also important for us to try and give something back, GSL merch, something signed by players, etc.
Thank you for the update!!
Honestly I would be glad to pay $100 a month to help support running GSL and/or contribute to the prize pool! If it means I can keep watching something close to the amount of GSL we had in 2022, I would gladly pay a lot. I really enjoyed GSL in 2022 especially with the Round Robin Ro10s.
If there are a few hundred others who would be willing to pay $20-100 a month, we could make a significant amount. Merch or rewards would be cute and may help convince many more to contribute, but personally I would not need it. I hope that merch would be kinds that are unique and valuable, but low cost to make and distribute. (For example, things signed or personalized by pro players).
Mark me down for crowdfunding, would be more than happy to give back for all the great entertainment and memories GSL has provided throughout the years! Really wish more tournaments and ESL as well would consider this as a more serious option.
GSL needs to charge: Show matches 1 and 2 for free. Get rid of the horrible YouTube overlay. Charge $2 to view the winners match, the losers match, and the decider match. With credit card fees, you’ll bring in maybe $1.50 per viewer. You may lose 50 percent of your viewers (although I’m betting the drop may be less than that). The last cast was 50k viewers. You’ll bring in at least $25,000 per group. $150,000 per season. That’s your prize pool.
On May 10 2023 00:27 Ellipsesdi wrote: GSL needs to charge: Show matches 1 and 2 for free. Get rid of the horrible YouTube overlay. Charge $2 to view the winners match, the losers match, and the decider match. With credit card fees, you’ll bring in maybe $1.50 per viewer. You may lose 50 percent of your viewers (although I’m betting the drop may be less than that). The last cast was 50k viewers. You’ll bring in at least $25,000 per group. $150,000 per season. That’s your prize pool.
Do you work for a rival Korean broadcasting corporation? Only explanation I can see for this suggestion.
Just charge the English cast viewers. Korean tv probably gets sufficient revenue through advertising to make it make sense as a free service. I’ve never purchased HotSix because I live in America.
On May 10 2023 00:27 Ellipsesdi wrote: GSL needs to charge: Show matches 1 and 2 for free. Get rid of the horrible YouTube overlay. Charge $2 to view the winners match, the losers match, and the decider match. With credit card fees, you’ll bring in maybe $1.50 per viewer. You may lose 50 percent of your viewers (although I’m betting the drop may be less than that). The last cast was 50k viewers. You’ll bring in at least $25,000 per group. $150,000 per season. That’s your prize pool.
This is a horrbile idea. Besides the Patreon is already going and pretty succesful at that
On May 10 2023 13:45 Ellipsesdi wrote: Just charge the English cast viewers. Korean tv probably gets sufficient revenue through advertising to make it make sense as a free service. I’ve never purchased HotSix because I live in America.
I purchased hot6 here solely because of GSL, but the colourful flavours aren't available just the boring default one =(
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2023/2023overview.png)
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2023/2023prize.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2023/2023format.jpg)
