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Rogue & Trap out for DHM Valencia?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
rwala
Profile Joined December 2019
293 Posts
June 30 2022 02:20 GMT
#1
Does anyone know why? COVID-19 concerns? Obviously a bummer, but just curious why.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3360 Posts
June 30 2022 02:39 GMT
#2
On June 30 2022 11:20 rwala wrote:
Does anyone know why? COVID-19 concerns? Obviously a bummer, but just curious why.

I believe we have mentioned it a couple times in other topics, but neither of them, nor Cure, can leave Korea because of their incoming military service, which are expected to be soon, but not "Zest soon"
NaRae
Profile Joined January 2017
Korea (South)48 Posts
June 30 2022 03:52 GMT
#3
On June 30 2022 11:39 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2022 11:20 rwala wrote:
Does anyone know why? COVID-19 concerns? Obviously a bummer, but just curious why.

I believe we have mentioned it a couple times in other topics, but neither of them, nor Cure, can leave Korea because of their incoming military service, which are expected to be soon, but not "Zest soon"

This is especially true for Korean gamers born in 1994 (or earlier).
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3360 Posts
June 30 2022 09:01 GMT
#4
Btw, Zoun is not going to Valencia neither, reason being high air ticket price and long flight schedule.
dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
June 30 2022 13:14 GMT
#5
Did I miss the reason why Serral isn t going?
MaxPax
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12795 Posts
June 30 2022 13:16 GMT
#6
On June 30 2022 22:14 dbRic1203 wrote:
Did I miss the reason why Serral isn t going?

He said it's for personal reason and afaik we don't have more information.
WriterMaru
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
June 30 2022 13:32 GMT
#7
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15928 Posts
June 30 2022 15:10 GMT
#8
On June 30 2022 22:32 MarianoSC2 wrote:
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...

Completely disagree, it sucks that they can't participate but that's not a reason to turn the whole event into online play just so they can play. Having premier events online shouldn't be normalized, they still have to many issues like Ping and timezones and also it doesn't feel like an important premier event when everyone is just sitting at home
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1147 Posts
June 30 2022 15:41 GMT
#9
On June 30 2022 22:32 MarianoSC2 wrote:
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...


So 60-ish players should not get the chance to play an offline event, which very well could be one of the last big ones SC2 ever sees (unlikely, but the chance is there with the contract running out), because six players who qualified couldn't attend?
This is not "just for the sake of having the event offline". Offline events are the norm, not the exception. Koreans had this problem in SC2 since the very beginning, so I'm actually asking: Did you ever complain about this before or is it just now because maybe one of your favorite players is affected?
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Philippe
Profile Joined October 2020
351 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-30 15:58:35
June 30 2022 15:50 GMT
#10
Pushing the logic a bit further, going back online would make the whole process for those who ordered accomodation and travel unfair (with capital letters) because they would have spent for nothing. (and the attendants who purchased offline tickets maybe)

You don't take the decision for a minority of players, but for the majority who can still attend.

On July 01 2022 00:41 Balnazza wrote: Did you ever complain about this before or is it just now because maybe one of your favorite players is affected?


Yeah question has to be asked.
I'm just a cynical video game enjoyer who is probably unfazed by many business dealings many would find utterly distasteful, while not strictly illegal by the law as seen in a general sense in the world.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3360 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-30 16:02:08
June 30 2022 16:00 GMT
#11
On July 01 2022 00:41 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2022 22:32 MarianoSC2 wrote:
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...


So 60-ish players should not get the chance to play an offline event, which very well could be one of the last big ones SC2 ever sees (unlikely, but the chance is there with the contract running out), because six players who qualified couldn't attend?
This is not "just for the sake of having the event offline". Offline events are the norm, not the exception. Koreans had this problem in SC2 since the very beginning, so I'm actually asking: Did you ever complain about this before or is it just now because maybe one of your favorite players is affected?

Except that among those 6 players there are like 3 in the top 10 and the other 3 are in top 20 in the world. Couple that with the on-going issue with the war in Ukraine, the Covid policy in China, and the horrific flying experience that players are having to endure to travel there right now, it really bring down the great experience that the offline event supposed to provide, for both the players and the audiences. I guess they should continue the event regardless because it has been planned for months, but I dont feel as much excitement about this one personally .
rwala
Profile Joined December 2019
293 Posts
June 30 2022 17:03 GMT
#12
Thanks for the clarification. I understand the pros & cons of offline versus online, but when KOB, TSL, ASUS ROG, etc. are putting on tourneys with higher levels of competition without ping, etc. clearly and demonstrably harming the quality of the matches you have to question whether these trade-offs are worth it. A DHM without Rogue, Trap, and Serral is just...weird. These are not my favorite players, FWIW. I just want to see tourneys where the best of the best are duking it out. Anyways, I'm sure the event will still be awesome. Just a bummer not to see these top tier players competing.
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4404 Posts
June 30 2022 17:39 GMT
#13
On July 01 2022 02:03 rwala wrote:
KOB, TSL, ASUS ROG, etc. are putting on tourneys with higher levels of competition without ping


What? Ping has been a major issue in all of those and all online events.
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States444 Posts
June 30 2022 18:06 GMT
#14
On July 01 2022 02:39 JJH777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2022 02:03 rwala wrote:
KOB, TSL, ASUS ROG, etc. are putting on tourneys with higher levels of competition without ping


What? Ping has been a major issue in all of those and all online events.


Not to mention time zones....
rwala
Profile Joined December 2019
293 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-06-30 18:18:56
June 30 2022 18:16 GMT
#15
On July 01 2022 02:39 JJH777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2022 02:03 rwala wrote:
KOB, TSL, ASUS ROG, etc. are putting on tourneys with higher levels of competition without ping


What? Ping has been a major issue in all of those and all online events.


An issue, for sure. A major issue that outweighs not having multiple top 10 players competing in the tourney? Pretty questionable. Or at least something reasonable people can disagree on, though FWIW 8 of the 10 global EPT events that were online last year featured grand finals with at least one of these top 10 players who are missing at DHM: Valencia (a couple had grand finals with both players missing).

I'm not even arguing for a switch to online play for this year (though personally I think it's worth it). But clearly COVID + ticket prices + military service travel restrictions are presenting a unique mix of factors that is causing a higher than normal number of top tier players to abstain from offline global events. That's worthy of some consideration and conversation, and you can just look at what's going on with NW7 to understand the nuance with these dynamics. Everything else equal, offline is better for sure. But alas everything else is not equal at this moment in time...

Anyways, like I said, should be a great tournament so not trying to be a downer. Just an observation and an honest take, which I'm guessing reflects how a significant portion of the community feels.
rwala
Profile Joined December 2019
293 Posts
June 30 2022 18:17 GMT
#16
On July 01 2022 03:06 Moonerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2022 02:39 JJH777 wrote:
On July 01 2022 02:03 rwala wrote:
KOB, TSL, ASUS ROG, etc. are putting on tourneys with higher levels of competition without ping


What? Ping has been a major issue in all of those and all online events.


Not to mention time zones....


Yes, that is definitely a factor. And there are others worth considering as well.
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1147 Posts
June 30 2022 19:13 GMT
#17
On July 01 2022 01:00 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2022 00:41 Balnazza wrote:
On June 30 2022 22:32 MarianoSC2 wrote:
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...


So 60-ish players should not get the chance to play an offline event, which very well could be one of the last big ones SC2 ever sees (unlikely, but the chance is there with the contract running out), because six players who qualified couldn't attend?
This is not "just for the sake of having the event offline". Offline events are the norm, not the exception. Koreans had this problem in SC2 since the very beginning, so I'm actually asking: Did you ever complain about this before or is it just now because maybe one of your favorite players is affected?

Except that among those 6 players there are like 3 in the top 10 and the other 3 are in top 20 in the world. Couple that with the on-going issue with the war in Ukraine, the Covid policy in China, and the horrific flying experience that players are having to endure to travel there right now, it really bring down the great experience that the offline event supposed to provide, for both the players and the audiences. I guess they should continue the event regardless because it has been planned for months, but I dont feel as much excitement about this one personally .


Sorry, but scheduling a tournament just for the top 10 is the opposite of sportsmanship. A tournament stands for itself, no matter who can or cannot come. And it isn't even sure if Serral would be able to play a tournament from home since we don't know the reason he isn't traveling to Valencia. And quite honestly: Neither China nor Russia/Ukraine are a big loss in terms of players who can attend. No offense to the players of course, but who from those three countries is actually a loss? Basically only TIME, no one else. If Australia couldn't send players, no one would care, either.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
3dwin
Profile Joined February 2022
11 Posts
June 30 2022 21:21 GMT
#18
On July 01 2022 04:13 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2022 01:00 tigera6 wrote:
On July 01 2022 00:41 Balnazza wrote:
On June 30 2022 22:32 MarianoSC2 wrote:
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...


So 60-ish players should not get the chance to play an offline event, which very well could be one of the last big ones SC2 ever sees (unlikely, but the chance is there with the contract running out), because six players who qualified couldn't attend?
This is not "just for the sake of having the event offline". Offline events are the norm, not the exception. Koreans had this problem in SC2 since the very beginning, so I'm actually asking: Did you ever complain about this before or is it just now because maybe one of your favorite players is affected?

Except that among those 6 players there are like 3 in the top 10 and the other 3 are in top 20 in the world. Couple that with the on-going issue with the war in Ukraine, the Covid policy in China, and the horrific flying experience that players are having to endure to travel there right now, it really bring down the great experience that the offline event supposed to provide, for both the players and the audiences. I guess they should continue the event regardless because it has been planned for months, but I dont feel as much excitement about this one personally .


Sorry, but scheduling a tournament just for the top 10 is the opposite of sportsmanship. A tournament stands for itself, no matter who can or cannot come. And it isn't even sure if Serral would be able to play a tournament from home since we don't know the reason he isn't traveling to Valencia. And quite honestly: Neither China nor Russia/Ukraine are a big loss in terms of players who can attend. No offense to the players of course, but who from those three countries is actually a loss? Basically only TIME, no one else. If Australia couldn't send players, no one would care, either.



SKillous is a bigger loss than TIME, and no Rattata is also a bummer.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3360 Posts
June 30 2022 21:31 GMT
#19
On July 01 2022 04:13 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2022 01:00 tigera6 wrote:
On July 01 2022 00:41 Balnazza wrote:
On June 30 2022 22:32 MarianoSC2 wrote:
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...


So 60-ish players should not get the chance to play an offline event, which very well could be one of the last big ones SC2 ever sees (unlikely, but the chance is there with the contract running out), because six players who qualified couldn't attend?
This is not "just for the sake of having the event offline". Offline events are the norm, not the exception. Koreans had this problem in SC2 since the very beginning, so I'm actually asking: Did you ever complain about this before or is it just now because maybe one of your favorite players is affected?

Except that among those 6 players there are like 3 in the top 10 and the other 3 are in top 20 in the world. Couple that with the on-going issue with the war in Ukraine, the Covid policy in China, and the horrific flying experience that players are having to endure to travel there right now, it really bring down the great experience that the offline event supposed to provide, for both the players and the audiences. I guess they should continue the event regardless because it has been planned for months, but I dont feel as much excitement about this one personally .


Sorry, but scheduling a tournament just for the top 10 is the opposite of sportsmanship. A tournament stands for itself, no matter who can or cannot come. And it isn't even sure if Serral would be able to play a tournament from home since we don't know the reason he isn't traveling to Valencia. And quite honestly: Neither China nor Russia/Ukraine are a big loss in terms of players who can attend. No offense to the players of course, but who from those three countries is actually a loss? Basically only TIME, no one else. If Australia couldn't send players, no one would care, either.

But among all the things that make a tournament great, is having great contenders and high level of competition. Imagine the NBA without Curry, Lebron, KD, Giannis. Or the World Cup without Germany, Italy, France, ect... And while we dont know if Serral can play online, we DO know the KRs player and MaxPax can, along with the Russian and Chinese player (mainly Skillous, Rattata and Time). Thats plenty of good players missing already imo, and some people might put an asterisk into whoever winning this tournament because of it.
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1147 Posts
June 30 2022 21:42 GMT
#20
On July 01 2022 06:31 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2022 04:13 Balnazza wrote:
On July 01 2022 01:00 tigera6 wrote:
On July 01 2022 00:41 Balnazza wrote:
On June 30 2022 22:32 MarianoSC2 wrote:
This whole situation sucks a lot. Lets just get back to online events and leave only Katowice offline. Its no use losing so many players just for the sake of having the event offline...


So 60-ish players should not get the chance to play an offline event, which very well could be one of the last big ones SC2 ever sees (unlikely, but the chance is there with the contract running out), because six players who qualified couldn't attend?
This is not "just for the sake of having the event offline". Offline events are the norm, not the exception. Koreans had this problem in SC2 since the very beginning, so I'm actually asking: Did you ever complain about this before or is it just now because maybe one of your favorite players is affected?

Except that among those 6 players there are like 3 in the top 10 and the other 3 are in top 20 in the world. Couple that with the on-going issue with the war in Ukraine, the Covid policy in China, and the horrific flying experience that players are having to endure to travel there right now, it really bring down the great experience that the offline event supposed to provide, for both the players and the audiences. I guess they should continue the event regardless because it has been planned for months, but I dont feel as much excitement about this one personally .


Sorry, but scheduling a tournament just for the top 10 is the opposite of sportsmanship. A tournament stands for itself, no matter who can or cannot come. And it isn't even sure if Serral would be able to play a tournament from home since we don't know the reason he isn't traveling to Valencia. And quite honestly: Neither China nor Russia/Ukraine are a big loss in terms of players who can attend. No offense to the players of course, but who from those three countries is actually a loss? Basically only TIME, no one else. If Australia couldn't send players, no one would care, either.

But among all the things that make a tournament great, is having great contenders and high level of competition. Imagine the NBA without Curry, Lebron, KD, Giannis. Or the World Cup without Germany, Italy, France, ect... And while we dont know if Serral can play online, we DO know the KRs player and MaxPax can, along with the Russian and Chinese player (mainly Skillous, Rattata and Time). Thats plenty of good players missing already imo, and some people might put an asterisk into whoever winning this tournament because of it.


As far as I know, Skillous isn't in Russia anymore anyway, so I don't know his travel situation. But to keep it on your example: Would you postpone or even cancel the NBA playoffs/finals because none of the favorites is there? Or maybe a few big names got injured? No, you wouldn't. And the same should go for this.
MaxPax btw is again not traveling for personal reasons (I will just assume he either has jitters or travel sickness, though I obviously don't know for sure). There was another player who never could attend big tournaments in WC3 and SC2 - Satiini. I have NEVER heard the phrase "that is so unfair, the entire tournament should be online so he can play!"

The biggest competition has to be offline, that is a fact for years. Covid didn't change that at all. It was a big accomplishement of Esports to finally play the biggest events offline - why would you revert that? Especially for basically two or three koreans who can't attend the World Championship anyway?

"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
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