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On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.
And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.
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On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point. And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.
what is a clown build? it seems u dont understand the strategy-aspect of sc2. i dont want to insult you, but we can a) believe that maru understands the game well or b) u understand the game better then maru. i vote vor a)
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On February 27 2022 23:54 DarkGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point. And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark. what is a clown build? it seems u dont understand the strategy-aspect of sc2. i dont want to insult you, but we can a) believe that maru understands the game well or b) u understand the game better then maru. i vote vor a)
To me, and most of us who understand the game, the best way Maru could win in TvZ in drag thing out and use his lategame prowess to take the game over. While early game pressure build is good, double reapers is just not working against top Zerg, they are just BAD build. Remember how Maru did something similar against Dark in Last Chance, and Dark just made some Roach, walk over and kill him straight up? Like how you expect that to works against Serral?
Just because Maru understand the game better than all of us fans, doesnt mean ALL of his decision are always correct. He took an unnecessary risk and Serral made it look silly.
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On February 27 2022 17:20 pandorasheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point. I mean there's only 2 possibilities that caused this upset: 1. Matchfixing 2. Maru was simply tired and his wrists hurt. Zerg is infinitely easier to play than Terran, hence why a lot of the "top" foreigners are Zerg, and Maru came all the way from Korea. Jetlag affects everyone differently. It seems to affect Maru more which is why he performed so well when traveling to China or playing online. I can guarantee you that Maru wins an easy 3-0 if Serral had to go to Korea Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 16:33 digmouse wrote:On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.
Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.
Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes. Aside from TIME and Cyan all the Asian players arrive a few days before group stage so they got plenty of rest. It takes one day of full rest per timezone when traveling east to west. A few days aren't enough on top of the Koreans practicing and Maru needing to worry about being in the group of death and "others" having the luxury of no jetlag or being in a stacked group
So what about when serral went to Korea and won gsl vs the world..twice? Was he not tired due to jet-lag and won anyway because there’s no excuses? In the words of Michael Jordan “if I step on the court, I’m ready to play no excuses” so stop making them for maru. U sound stupid
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On February 27 2022 17:20 pandorasheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point. I mean there's only 2 possibilities that caused this upset: 1. Matchfixing 2. Maru was simply tired and his wrists hurt. Zerg is infinitely easier to play than Terran, hence why a lot of the "top" foreigners are Zerg, and Maru came all the way from Korea. Jetlag affects everyone differently. It seems to affect Maru more which is why he performed so well when traveling to China or playing online. I can guarantee you that Maru wins an easy 3-0 if Serral had to go to Korea Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 16:33 digmouse wrote:On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.
Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.
Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes. Aside from TIME and Cyan all the Asian players arrive a few days before group stage so they got plenty of rest. It takes one day of full rest per timezone when traveling east to west. A few days aren't enough on top of the Koreans practicing and Maru needing to worry about being in the group of death and "others" having the luxury of no jetlag or being in a stacked group
Hahahaha sweet tears of Korean Elitist taste so good
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At least Rogue had the courage to address balance in 2019 after WCS Global Finals.
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France12792 Posts
On February 28 2022 19:06 sc2_edc wrote:
At least Rogue had the courage to address balance in 2019 after WCS Global Finals.
He did it before BlizzCon iirc. But yeah for a « villain » he was very honest. Too bad he got 3-0d here, would have loved a better fight
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ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.
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Good to see Protoss perform so well, I guess twitch chat was right all along xD
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On March 01 2022 10:35 Drahkn wrote:
Good to see Protoss perform so well, I guess twitch chat was right all along xD
I mean honest question about this, are there tons of people that like would rather protoss just get deleted? I've always felt that one of the coolest parts of SC was that there were **3** races with distinct play styles that they tried to balance.
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On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.
1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?
2)You have to host an international offline event somewhere. IEM Kattowice is the most prestigious event ESL has in store, while also being a big tournament in the past for SC2. Where else would they host it? Korea? Where ESL has no standing at all and the show would probably need to be hosted in korean?
3)No one was surprised, it was just a big milestone. Might happen more in the future. Korea still has the most high end players per country, but the GSL as a whole isn't really much more competitive than EU tbh.
I would agree on the balance-patch though. Not that the balance is much out of order, but you need to shake up the game. New maps alone can't do that forever.
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On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?
Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.
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On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better? Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament. But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.
So you are saying the Koreans didn't prepare or practice for the single biggest tournament of the year?
Like it was said before, ESL only does everything but Korea, which is organized by Afreeca? or some other Korean organisation. The money from the pools does not come from ESL but from Blizzard.
Korea gets its fair share of that cake IMO.
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On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.
Bro... it's been Zergcraft for years now. Rouge was the only one to tell the truth. It's been shit since the Raven nerf...
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On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point. And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.
They arnt bad openings. The game just doesnt HAVE any real pressure openings Terran can do anymore. The guy trying to FIND something that can actually put pressure on a zerg.
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On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.
Hes really not. The matchup has been fucked since they took away Terran late game splash...
The early game is nonexistent, mid game is Zerg favored. Just a move banes, babe run bysl.
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On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better? Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament. But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.
So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL?
As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).
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On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better? Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament. But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament. So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL? As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).
I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there.
As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other.
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On March 01 2022 21:32 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point. And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark. They arnt bad openings. The game just doesnt HAVE any real pressure openings Terran can do anymore. The guy trying to FIND something that can actually put pressure on a zerg.
I could name a couple pressure build from Terran that doesnt involve double rack Reapers, like 2-1-1, 3 Racks, 2 base pressure. Like HM win several games in IEM just through purely 2 base push and he executed it pretty flawlessly. So dont tell me Terran doesnt have anything else. Maru did the same thing against Dark in Last Chance, and Dark just made a couple Roach to defend, then walk across the map and choked him off instantly.
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Northern Ireland25075 Posts
On March 02 2022 00:04 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 21:32 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point. And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark. They arnt bad openings. The game just doesnt HAVE any real pressure openings Terran can do anymore. The guy trying to FIND something that can actually put pressure on a zerg. I could name a couple pressure build from Terran that doesnt involve double rack Reapers, like 2-1-1, 3 Racks, 2 base pressure. Like HM win several games in IEM just through purely 2 base push and he executed it pretty flawlessly. So dont tell me Terran doesnt have anything else. Maru did the same thing against Dark in Last Chance, and Dark just made a couple Roach to defend, then walk across the map and choked him off instantly.
Not all gambles pay off, I’m unsure if that’s even a good gamble to make granted.
Even more questionable, to me is not vetoing Pride of Altaris. If you’re going to not veto a terrible map for your race in the matchup, then you should have a prepped build in store.
Instead Maru tried to play a straight macro game in probably the worst map in the pool to play a straight macro game, against Serral of all people.
These are just bad choices, reminiscent of last year against Reynor. Can’t remember exactly what it was off-hand, but in one of the best maps in the pool for that Maru defensive style, he threw in something wonky and got punished.
There’s being unpredictable and there’s not playing a series to your strengths by choice. In these world championship tournies his set planning has been consistently lacking.
In other tournaments, and in sets in Katowice both this and last year when Maru’s actually got to play his particular game there’s been plenty of times where even the best Zergs fall apart trying to break him.
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EPT
